4 ms·

Modern LA is orders of magnitude safer than London in the '60s and earlier. Those conditions would have been comparable to some parts of China today.

windlep 11y ago
"I can't trust air I can't see", was my favorite line of my grandfathers, who lived in LA for the past 60 years. He always mentioned how incredibly clear and clean the air is now compared to a few decades ago (where I live in Northern California now, even the Bay Area seems polluted and smoggy most days).
- snogglethorpe 11y ago
  I expect the same is true of many "industrial" cities in developed countries... I live in Kawasaki, just outside of Tokyo, which is famous for its industry. The air now is lovely and clean, there are essentially no pollution issues at all, but 50 years ago, things were apparently very, very, different... In old pictures, it's like a black miasma hanging over everything.... oO;
- chiph 11y ago
  These days when I get behind a classic car that has a carburetor, I close the vents. Just can't stand the smell of the unburned fuel they put out. Which is odd because I grew up with them (my first car was a '75 Impala with the malaise-era small-block V-8). These days there are many more cars on the road and individually they're far cleaner than any 70's car was. So much cleaner that collectively they're cleaner than the population of cars from back then too.
seanmcdirmid 11y ago
Hmmm. Wonder how long I should continue to live in Beijing? :( (today is a clean air day, but my wife and I had this argument already once this week)
- InclinedPlane 11y ago
  I posted a link to this in another post, but here's a chart showing how bad the pollution in London during the great smog of 1952 was: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~dib2/atmos/london.jpeg http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~dib2/atmos/london.jpeg Notice that SO2 and smoke particles are measured in units of milligrams per m^3 (today such measurements are in micrograms per m^3). To put Beijing's air in the context of this graph, the smoke particles in Beijing on a bad air day will go up to 0.2 to 0.8 mg/m^3 and SO2 will spike up to 0.3 for short periods. Compared to the Great Smog of 1952, Beijing's air isn't nearly as bad, but it's still incredibly bad. The Great Smog killed 0.03% of the population of London per day. Beijing's air regularly gets to around 1/4 the amount of smoke in the air as during the Great Smog.
  - keithpeter 11y ago
    Liverpool area, early 60s: we had those thick yellow fogs less often than in London, but with added ingredients from the chemical works up the estuary. My grandfather would be hospitalised in the winter months with bronchitis - on one occasion spending time in an oxygen tent to aid his breathing. Our teacher at school suggested we breathe through handkerchiefs on the way to school if there was a fog. Impressive quantities of tar. Much better now.
- lordnacho 11y ago
  A friend of mine actually left because of the pollution. It's thought provoking that it could get that bad.
- gommm 11y ago
  I left Shanghai because of the pollution... And Beijing is even worth...
javert 11y ago
What exactly did they do to clean up the air in London? I mean, just pass regulations that factories have to be further from the city, or what?
- DanBC 11y ago
  They passed a variety of clean air acts to prevent burning coal within certain boundaries and raise chimney heights. http://www2.epa.gov/aboutepa/londons-historic-pea-soupers http://www2.epa.gov/aboutepa/londons-historic-pea-soupers http://www.air-quality.org.uk/03.php http://www.air-quality.org.uk/03.php There are still problems with NO2. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32512152 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32512152
- InclinedPlane 11y ago
  Similar things to what was done in America. Lots of regulations. The "Great Smog" of 1952, which resulted in several thousand deaths in a matter of days, spurred action, resulting in the Clean Air Act of 1956 and other legislation. It banned many of the more polluting activities which had been common at the time, use of low grade coal and wood in home heating, use of unfiltered diesel engines on transportation in the city, use of coal in power stations near to the city. Factories and power plants were also moved farther away from the city. Here's an interesting little writeup that has some really fascinating graphs on London pollution: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~dib2/atmos/urban.html http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~dib2/atmos/urban.html
- pjc50 11y ago
  Among other things, a switch to gas-fired central heating (with the discovery of gas in the North Sea) and a mandate to use "smokeless fuel" in the remaining hearths. Smokeless fuel is a sort of briquette made of ground and reconstituted coal that's had most of the sulphuric impurities washed and cooked out of it, along with a blend of other things like sawdust and molasses.
akgerber 11y ago
Pittsburgh was a city of coal-heated homes and coke-powered blast furnaces set in river valleys, and in the '60s and earlier was dark at noon: http://www.buzzfeed.com/kevintang/stunning-photos-of-pittsburghs-air-pollution-in-the-1940s#.xyoMpJwwd http://www.buzzfeed.com/kevintang/stunning-photos-of-pittsbu... Many of the older brick-and-stone buildings are still covered in black stains.

windlep 11y ago

"I can't trust air I can't see", was my favorite line of my grandfathers, who lived in LA for the past 60 years. He always mentioned how incredibly clear and clean the air is now compared to a few decades ago (where I live in Northern California now, even the Bay Area seems polluted and smoggy most days).

snogglethorpe 11y ago
I expect the same is true of many "industrial" cities in developed countries... I live in Kawasaki, just outside of Tokyo, which is famous for its industry. The air now is lovely and clean, there are essentially no pollution issues at all, but 50 years ago, things were apparently very, very, different... In old pictures, it's like a black miasma hanging over everything.... oO;
chiph 11y ago
These days when I get behind a classic car that has a carburetor, I close the vents. Just can't stand the smell of the unburned fuel they put out. Which is odd because I grew up with them (my first car was a '75 Impala with the malaise-era small-block V-8). These days there are many more cars on the road and individually they're far cleaner than any 70's car was. So much cleaner that collectively they're cleaner than the population of cars from back then too.

seanmcdirmid 11y ago

Hmmm. Wonder how long I should continue to live in Beijing? :( (today is a clean air day, but my wife and I had this argument already once this week)

InclinedPlane 11y ago
I posted a link to this in another post, but here's a chart showing how bad the pollution in London during the great smog of 1952 was: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~dib2/atmos/london.jpeg http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~dib2/atmos/london.jpeg Notice that SO2 and smoke particles are measured in units of milligrams per m^3 (today such measurements are in micrograms per m^3). To put Beijing's air in the context of this graph, the smoke particles in Beijing on a bad air day will go up to 0.2 to 0.8 mg/m^3 and SO2 will spike up to 0.3 for short periods. Compared to the Great Smog of 1952, Beijing's air isn't nearly as bad, but it's still incredibly bad. The Great Smog killed 0.03% of the population of London per day. Beijing's air regularly gets to around 1/4 the amount of smoke in the air as during the Great Smog.
- keithpeter 11y ago
  Liverpool area, early 60s: we had those thick yellow fogs less often than in London, but with added ingredients from the chemical works up the estuary. My grandfather would be hospitalised in the winter months with bronchitis - on one occasion spending time in an oxygen tent to aid his breathing. Our teacher at school suggested we breathe through handkerchiefs on the way to school if there was a fog. Impressive quantities of tar. Much better now.
lordnacho 11y ago
A friend of mine actually left because of the pollution. It's thought provoking that it could get that bad.
gommm 11y ago
I left Shanghai because of the pollution... And Beijing is even worth...

javert 11y ago

What exactly did they do to clean up the air in London? I mean, just pass regulations that factories have to be further from the city, or what?

DanBC 11y ago
They passed a variety of clean air acts to prevent burning coal within certain boundaries and raise chimney heights. http://www2.epa.gov/aboutepa/londons-historic-pea-soupers http://www2.epa.gov/aboutepa/londons-historic-pea-soupers http://www.air-quality.org.uk/03.php http://www.air-quality.org.uk/03.php There are still problems with NO2. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32512152 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32512152
InclinedPlane 11y ago
Similar things to what was done in America. Lots of regulations. The "Great Smog" of 1952, which resulted in several thousand deaths in a matter of days, spurred action, resulting in the Clean Air Act of 1956 and other legislation. It banned many of the more polluting activities which had been common at the time, use of low grade coal and wood in home heating, use of unfiltered diesel engines on transportation in the city, use of coal in power stations near to the city. Factories and power plants were also moved farther away from the city. Here's an interesting little writeup that has some really fascinating graphs on London pollution: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~dib2/atmos/urban.html http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~dib2/atmos/urban.html
pjc50 11y ago
Among other things, a switch to gas-fired central heating (with the discovery of gas in the North Sea) and a mandate to use "smokeless fuel" in the remaining hearths. Smokeless fuel is a sort of briquette made of ground and reconstituted coal that's had most of the sulphuric impurities washed and cooked out of it, along with a blend of other things like sawdust and molasses.

akgerber 11y ago

Pittsburgh was a city of coal-heated homes and coke-powered blast furnaces set in river valleys, and in the '60s and earlier was dark at noon: http://www.buzzfeed.com/kevintang/stunning-photos-of-pittsburghs-air-pollution-in-the-1940s#.xyoMpJwwd http://www.buzzfeed.com/kevintang/stunning-photos-of-pittsbu... Many of the older brick-and-stone buildings are still covered in black stains.