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Death of a Programmer, Life of a Farmer

• frade33 11y ago
  He did it.
• argon2424 11y ago
  I a completely blown away by what this guy did. And a huge kudos to him and his boys!
• ra1n85 11y ago
  I've seen these before - someone leaves it all for the simple life. This is the first time I've seen the added benefit of being able to spend a lot more time with family. To me, that's one of the most compelling reasons to do something like this.
  • emodendroket 11y ago
    Many of them end up going back to the not-so-simple life in a few years so I'm hesitant to read too much into an early account like this.
    • Apocryphon 11y ago
      Worked for Thoreau.
      • lgieron 11y ago
        Thoreau abandoned his cabin after 2 years.
      • emodendroket 11y ago
        He spent more time editing his manuscript than he did actually living in his cabin.
      • pnathan 11y ago
        I think Walden is the most snobby book I've read in my life. Everything he had, he got from the people he looked down on in the hardworking area round about that he 'escaped' from.
• mainguy 11y ago
  Personally I think the change of pace is what some people need. While routine is comforting, it's also a trap and can be soul sucking.
• HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
  That bit about coming down with the 22 got to me a bit. I had a dog attack on my chicken flock last week and one of the last remaining birds was still alive but obviously dying. Even though I see them as livestock, not pets, it was still not easy to pick her up, break her neck to kill her quickly then stand back and watch it end. Never easy to kill something you're supposed to be taking care of.
  • PerfectElement 11y ago
    > "Even though I see them as livestock, not pets" Isn't it funny how this is a completely arbitrary definition? The most sensible explanation I've seen about this phenomenon is called carnism and it's brilliantly explained by Dr. Melaine Joy in this TED talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0VrZPBskpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0VrZPBskpg
    • icebraining 11y ago
      No, it's not arbitrary at all, it's just subjective and depends on your personal relation with the animal. Frankly, that video sounds like BS to me. How much time did she spend within family farms that raise animals? The idea that you need "invisibility" or to abstract animals as non-individual or as objects is so untrue it's not even funny.
      • blt 11y ago
        I didn't watch the video, but it seems like a common misconception. People don't like the idea of killing an animal with a name and personality for meat, so they think it must be impossible. But in reality, plenty of farmers develop bonds with the animals they will eventually kill.
      • bcoates 11y ago
        The claim that every culture only picks a handful of animal species to be considered edible, and this is part of some sort of psychological defense mechanism, is BS too. Counter-example: China, or any society that has access to a diverse hunting ground for 'game' or 'bushmeat'. Even a 'picky eater' society like the US that only eats a few kinds of land animal species treats all fish as edible but only a few named species as 'the good ones', and only a handful of plant species are commonplace in the diet despite lots more being readily available.
• lnalx 11y ago
  As he said "say “Hello” to the real world is one that has paid me in ways that money simply cannot". Totally agree, hoping to him a happy life.
• codebeaker 11y ago
  Hardly related, but as a recent graduate from a cramped city apartment to owning my own home, with space for a workshop and a reasonable sized (300m^2) garden which was bare sand has been incredibly rewarding, I wake early on the weekends, and spend time working in the garden, building furniture, tending to my plants and building (well, once) fences. I look forward to sharing this stuff with my son when he's older, and continuing to teach him that whilst I'd love him to get a well -paying job, I'd prefer him to be happy.
• _halgari 11y ago
  It's funny to see this stuff go full-circle. My parents left the city in the early 90's to move to a small WI farm in the middle of nowhere (15min to get to a town of 5000 people). I can see the appeal of a simpler life. But the funny thing is, as a kid, I hated it. My parents got tired of the suburbs, I longed for it. They longed for simplicity, I longed for convenience. I hated the idea of having to drive long distances just to get some milk and eggs. I hated the silence, and how secluded I felt. On the bright side, the silence drove me to cobble together an old computer and start programming at the age of 10, but that may have happened no matter where I lived. So perhaps someday I'll snap and feel like moving to the country. But for now I'm quite happy with my wife and kids in the stereotypical suburbs.
  • torrent-of-ions 11y ago
    I grew up in the suburbs and hated it. I hated the idea of having to go long distances to get milk and eggs. I'm happy now in a city centre.
    • philbarr 11y ago
      I never understood that about America. I've been lost in the suburbs in Michigan once, driving along for ages with just house after house after house, and thinking, "where's the local shop?" Surely it's got to be worth someone setting up a local shop every couple of miles?
      • hydrogen18 11y ago
        I don't know much about Michigan, but it could be due to zoning that you don't see any shops.
      • Ygg2 11y ago
        Not really. The longer the distance traveled the more you buy per trip. It's universal foraging behavior.
        • shasta 11y ago
• mobinni 11y ago
  You go girl!
  • bstamour 11y ago
    Found the person who only read the first few paragraphs.
• artursapek 11y ago
  I wonder how many people here will feel uncomfortable after reading this. I wonder how many will realize this man pursued aspects of life that they've been fantasizing about or putting of for "later." I can relate somewhat, after having a child at a young age (22). My son makes me feel more full of life than I ever felt before, when I really had nothing and nobody to take care of besides myself. It sounds like the OP is way ahead of me though.
  • emodendroket 11y ago
    Well, to each their own, but I don't fantasize about doing manual labor and this article hasn't really changed my mind.
    • thatcat 11y ago
      It made me fantasize about automating manual labor as an alternative way of engaging the physical world to direct manual labor.
  • Dewie3 11y ago
    > My son makes me feel more full of life than I ever felt before, when I really had nothing and nobody to take care of besides myself. Children do seem to provide a fantastic relief for self-loathers.
    • artursapek 11y ago
      What makes you call me a self-loather?
• dimxasnewfrozen 11y ago
  I think you need to be passionate about the code you write. I worked for a company out of college that I despised. I was there for 3 years and was extremely miserable. It was indeed soul sucking. I moved out of state, to a new company working on software in a totally different market and it's been very enjoyable. I love being outside, but I also love programming and wouldn't chose any other career over it. I do love this story though. I'm glad it's working out. It must have been tough to make that huge change, with kids and everything. Good luck.
  • coder2222 11y ago
    Hey, this is the author of the post! I completely agree with you, and I think in a lot of ways it's tough to find a place that can keep you passionate about the code you write. I still have plans to write code in the future, however, this journey of mine is to help give me the freedom to write code for myself. Code that I am actually passionate about. It seems that writing code for others is part of what takes the away the passion of the individual writing it. Thank you very much for the well wishes!
    • randomdata 11y ago
      As another programmer turned farmer, I am curious how you managed to reach self-sustainabilty so quickly? Programming is still an integral part of my farming operation because it pays the bills.
    • sixdimensional 11y ago
      Just a little turn on your wording... I want to write code and build things for myself, with hope that this code will be beneficial to others as well, but it doesn't have to be. Even better, if writing the code for myself can provide a life for my family and I, and also be beneficial to others. I've heard it said that even philanthropy is as much driven by the individual philanthropist's need to feel the good feeling of giving, as it is by the actual or perceived need of others outside of the philanthropist. Sometimes goodness happens through the alignment of personal incentives with those of others, sometimes it is purely personal, but you probably need a blend of both to survive physically and emotionally. There's a lot one could consider and digest in this thinking - open source vs proprietary, for vs. non-profit, side projects for fun vs. for profit (and where those blend together sometimes), "freedom" and much more. I think a lot of this is about opening up yourself. It seems you're doing just that with your current endeavors, and I applaud and congratulate you for it!
• no1publicenemy 11y ago
  That's why work-life balance is SO BLOODY IMPORTANT and the weekends and annual vacation and that's why I worship my downtime, hobbies, excursions and expeditions more than my work because I don't wanna end up sick, depressed or a "born-again" something.
• jader201 11y ago
  Sounds like the OP was never a "programmer", but rather a farmer trapped inside a programmer's job. I think it takes courage (and a bit of risk) to completely shift the course of your career, especially while you have a family to support. I will be curious to hear if he sticks with it long term, but to me, it sounds like he never was designed to be a programmer. To be a programmer, it takes someone that doesn't mind being behind a computer for a good part of the day (even if you're able to take a break to get some fresh air on occasion). Otherwise, it will have the effect it seems to have had on the OP, and ultimately leave you wishing for something else. And that's completely cool -- those people should find what drives them. But it's also completely cool if you're designed to enjoy programming. And I think you can still do this and, at the same time, make sure you're doing other things to bring a smile to your face (in addition to programming), like spending time with family and friends.
  • fatso83 11y ago
    He liked programming. It was the entire life style that came with it that got to him. Like it gets to a lot of us. I am feeling much of the same pain, but I think I would rather just quit the office job, and start consulting on my own. Then you can set your own terms, possibly livable ones :)
  • rmsaksida 11y ago
    > To be a programmer, it takes someone that doesn't mind being behind a computer for a good part of the day (even if you're able to take a break to get some fresh air on occasion). Otherwise, it will have the effect it seems to have had on the OP, and ultimately leave you wishing for something else. I don't know if that's true for everybody. Being behind a computer all day long is what I've been doing since I was 8. I'm 26 now. I like computers. I don't mind it. But whenever I do a little traveling or have to spend a while outdoors, I feel an immense joy, and I get the feeling that there's an incredible amount of things out there I'm missing out; I yearn for life "outside". I think I'd do well on it. I'm happy as a programmer, but I can imagine myself being happy a farmer - who knows? Whether I'd be happy, or happier, I have no idea. There are so many occupations out there, and each person is so complex, I find it hard to say with any confidence that a person has found his true profession. It might just be that I'd have been an extraordinary sailor, but the circumstances of life have made it so that I will never know that reality. Everyone convinces themselves that they've found the path they were cut out for, but there's a lot of wishful thinking there, and many people don't even consider these issues at all.
• rehtona 11y ago
  I wish I was able to feel good doing manual labor or outdoors activities but I just can't for the most part. That includes farming, carpenting, fishing, sailing etc. My father is a very handy man, and I've tried to keep an open mind, but I just dread every second of it. Still, I go fishing and sailing with him just to hang out, and he doesn't know how I feel about it. Guess I'm lucky to be living in this day and age, I would have been a terrible and unhappy farmer.
  • fnayr 11y ago
    Thanks for the input, another. I feel the same way except that I do enjoy the fishing with my Dad. But I do desire to enjoy and be good at the other stuff, I'm just not.
• charlysisto 11y ago
  Not to question this guy's remarkable decision or the article itself, just one expression I see quit often and makes me cringe each time, that is : the real world (referred here as a little haven of nature). Is the 19th century Industrial revolution just an illusion, the factories, the cars, the towns, the wars just a view of the spirit, and the little birds singing in the trees the real world ? Is the current (electronic?) revolution an illusion, just a bait for digital addicts, a virtual world that drags us away from our real world ? I think it's quit the opposite. I think the real world is this huge uncontrollable human growth on the branch its standing on. Don't get me wrong, I was raised in the countryside and my entire soul is deeply bonded to the forest, and the animals and insects living in it. But don't call it the real world. Rather something like the fading world. And we need all the talent and imagination behind computers (or in labs), where we can have true impact on things and save it. Going back to it is the true illusion...
  • tsunamifury 11y ago
    I think, comparatively, given all the human and computer driven computation to create simulations on a screen resulting in something 1/100,000,000th as complex as a sqft of rainforest... Yes its not real. Computation has been trapped inside boxes and tiny screens, virtualization with behaviors that don't even approach the richness and complexity of reality outside that box. Don't get me wrong, it's a noble and passionate endeavor, but it's misguided if it traps you there forever.
    • javajosh 11y ago
      I wish I could upvote you more. This is the proper context for our work.
    • M8 11y ago
      Some of the computation is "trapped" inside of the bone box with no screens. Yet only that computation makes any complexity meaningful.
    • solipsism 11y ago
      I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. given all the human and computer driven computation to create simulations on a screen resulting in something 1/100,000,000th as complex as a sqft of rainforest This is an absurd comparison. Besides being apples to oranges, besides being super arbitrary (where did you get 1 square foot?), besides being completely undefined (what kinds of simulations are you talking about?).. it doesn't make any sense. Let's follow your logic a little bit. * A butterfly in the rainforest creates a chrysalis. That chrysalis is not real because it's 1/100,000,000th as complex as a square foot of rainforest. It's a noble and passionate endeavor, but it doesn't even approach the richness and complexity of reality outside that chrysalis. Does that make sense to you? Do you agree with it? Let's use your logic to try to compare apples to apples. Let's compare a square mile of rainforest to a square mile of New York City. Is one more real than the other? Since you seem to think complexity has something to do with realness (an idea that seems silly and arbitrary, but let's go with it), is one more complex than the other? Hard to say. The rainforest almost certainly has more individual living things. But is that how we define complexity? The city is chock full of human brains, and it's hard to argue with the fact that the human brain is one of the most complex things on the planet. The city also seems low in entropy compared to the jungle. The very fact that a city exists, distinct from the jungle, seems to imply lower entropy. If you let the city go without tending for a long time (and if its location was right), it would become jungle. You might argue that that's because there's no one keeping the complexity high. And since high complexity means more real (I still don't get it, but I'm just going with your "logic"), I have shown the city is more real than the jungle. Does that make sense? Not really? It's definitely not rigorous. It's not based on sound principles. The logic is faulty in all kinds of ways. It makes leaps of logic and uses poorly defined concepts. Does that stand out more when I do it compared to when you're doing it? I urge you to not be "that guy" or "that girl" that uses that kind of logic.
• kul_ 11y ago
  You my friend may just save an otherwise wasted life! Let me know if you are hiring, I guess i would be really good in picking cow dung and grazing cattles.
• SethMurphy 11y ago
  While programming may be defined by math and intelligence to many who don't know better, it is the constant learning and problem solving that keeps it fresh for me. The Evolution of a Problem Solver sounds like a better title to me.
• iagooar 11y ago
  I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and this post definitely gives me some motivation. I'm a programmer who loves to code and build stuff, learning new programming languages and frameworks, discussing about architecture, etc. I love shipping new features and making customers happy. BUT inside of me a desire has been growing to go back to the roots, to live a life closer to the nature. I feel the need to spend more time outside, with less time pressure. I've been thinking about this idea to build something like a "tech-farmer colony". Maybe it's been done in the past, never heard of it, but it would be a group of engineers and their families, living together and working part-time as software / hardware engineers, and part time as farmers, with flexible division of tasks. Maybe the software / hardware company could even work on projects closely related to farming, in order to improve productivity / efficiency / cut costs / promote ecologic food, etc. I'd be curious to see if there are more people in the tech industry who would love to do something like this. I'd love to read some interesting ideas / critique.
  • j-b 11y ago
    I'm in. Actually, it's a long term goal for me and my family to move to a farm and escape the cubicle/office environment. The article resonates deeply with me. Until then, weekend camping trips, nature hikes and tending to our small flock of chickens in the suburbs will have to suffice.
  • snikeris 11y ago
    I would be interested in something like this as well.
  • tsunamifury 11y ago
    You may have to accept a world where you need other people besides engineers.
    • dasmoth 11y ago
      World, maybe. But in terms of building a somewhat-self-sufficient community -- which seems to be what's being suggested here -- why wouldn't all-engineers work?
• cositarica 11y ago
  shitty shit.
• jerf 11y ago
  Yesterday I posted a comment about being careful about how we try to bring people into programming and making sure that we encourage people to openly and honestly examine themselves for whether this is something they want to do, and not just thoughtlessly grease the slide into "programming" for everybody. [1] This is the sort of thing I meant. Dig back into the first post and it's clear that this person was very interested in coding as a hobby, but that it didn't translate as a career. A bit of discouragement, or at least, something that most people who are gung-ho about encouraging people in, in, in to coding would consider discouragement but perhaps also could just be called "realism", could well have saved this person a lot of pain and suffering. Mindless encouragement is not a virtue... it must be mindful. I am where I belong. I've done farming and gardening and it does nothing for me, for a variety of reasons. I would (and I suppose, do) pay not to do it. This would be a horrifying career change for me. But I am grateful that I am a statistically-crazy guy who actually loves this almost inhuman job of programming, grateful that I get to do this crazy stuff that few other people really want to do, and they can go do stuff that I don't want to do. Real diversity is great. Be careful about encouragement, and be honest about the whole package. There are people out there who are natural programmers (or other technical positions), and don't know it yet. There are people out there who think it's a good idea, and really shouldn't do it. There are people out there who don't know about programming, and don't need to because it isn't for them, and somebody really needs to come talk to them about the virtues of plumbing, or how much charity work they could do. There's a lot of people out there who should be introduced to what computers can do for you as a hobby or an adjunct to another career but don't need to be "programmers". You can't perfectly predict, and ultimately everyone's responsible for their own decisions anyhow, but be thoughtful about what you say. Is the end goal to create a programmer, or to create a satisfied person? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9486391 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9486391
  • maxerickson 11y ago
    There's huge benefits from people understanding clearly what sort of tasks computers are good at (and not). Or at least, having reasonable awareness of the subset of tasks that computers are obviously good at (you know, stuff like copying a piece of information into 3 different places). I think this is sort of what many people are reaching for when they start babbling about teaching everybody to program (I guess many people calling for teaching everybody to program may not really understand it themselves).
• jqm 11y ago
  Hilarious... I grew up on a large agriculture operation miles from town. I hated it. My friends all got to do cool stuff like skateboard and go to the mall. I had to have a milk cow instead. I couldn't wait to grow up and get away and live in a city. I was going to be an electrical engineer. Instead I became an agronomist. I worked on some different types of farms and although it was OK it wasn't exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to think all day at work, not just exist and do the same thing season after season. I always loved computers and had ever since my first TSR-80. I started playing around with HTML. Then I learned Python and Javascript. Then I started writing more complex programs. Then I decided I wanted to do it full time about 4 years ago and quite my job as a land reclamation specialist. My boss was quite surprised... he knew I was "good with computers" but I was going to be a programming nerd? I got some contract jobs. Then I got a full time job as a web developer. I love it. Every day I'm clean, I sit in a comfortable chair in a climate controlled environment and I play with computer code. I'm very happy (although I still live on a few acres and have a big garden... it's a hobby now which is just the way I like it).
  • dasmoth 11y ago
    As someone who grew up on "a few acres and a big garden" but currently lives in town, I'd say there's a pretty big difference there.
• tjic 11y ago
  This is funny ; I moved from the Cambridge MA area to a 50 acre farm in rural NH a year ago. I could identify the brand of tractor and livestock nipples from the pictures. Everything in this article is 100% accurate, based on my own experiences of the last 15 months. Anyway, time to stop surfing news.yc and go check in on the pigs, then get back to building the greenhouse.
• ryandrake 11y ago
  I don't know--good for this guy, but there's no way I'd do it. I got into technology in order to avoid a life of back-breaking manual labor. When I was a kid I had to go help bail hay on a farm, and then graduated to assisting my father doing construction jobs. Nailing shingles to a roof under the sun all day in the middle of the summer is great motivation to go for that job in an air conditioned office.
  • logicalmind 11y ago
    I was in the same boat. The comparison should really be about the long-term downsides. Sure, the sedentary lifestyle of computer work could cause various ailments. But the farm lifestyle will cause its own long-term ailments. Everyone is built differently, so there is no guarantee of health on either side. Eventually, both forms of work will catch up with you. It's just a matter of which one you can personally handle better. ie. carpal tunnel vs slipped disks. Not to mention the difference in possibility of serious injury or death. There is a lot of opportunity on a farm to get injured temporarily or permanently. If serious, you either die or are unable to continue farming. I find this piece very short-sighted.
    • technomancy 11y ago
      Unfortunately the follow-up post 12 months from now once the romantic ideals fade won't make it to Hacker News, if it even gets written.
  • deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  • M8 11y ago
    In the end, if society doesn't collapse, farming will be automated.
    • proggR 11y ago
      I plan on sort of following the path of the OP, but in an automated way. Longer comment on Reddit[1], but the goal is to make a climate controlled greenhouse that houses a heavily automated aquaponics setup along with backyard chickens for eggs and eventually meat. I may take on a couple goats for milk but that would follow later. As part of this I also want to setup solar and vertical axis wind along with evacuated tubing for heating to cut down on energy dependence at the same time. Once you realize how much of your working time is going to just provide food, shelter, and energy, it makes you question if you could manage to provide those basics in another way than money. With the tech we have now and the rising costs of food taking a bigger cut of your paid time I think we very soon could find that the cost/time investment to DIY will become less than the time investment to purchase from someone else. This is all of course ignoring the upfront capital requirements but the idea is that if I can reduce the portion of my pay going to those things, I could either a) have more money left over for other things, or b) reduce the amount of time I work equal to the reduced expenses and have more time available for other things. Either way, less external dependencies = more degrees of freedom. 1 - http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/2yovsq/canada_risks_losing_next_generation_of_farmers/cpbyyio http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/2yovsq/canada_risks_...
• josemwarrior 11y ago
  another "burn out" case...
• geggam 11y ago
  I am a bit envious.
• jkot 11y ago
  Cubicle != programmer. One can program and run company from a farm.
  • dasmoth 11y ago
    Do you do this yourself at the moment? It's certainly possible on paper, and looks like a more-or-less ideal balance to me -- but very interested to hear about actual experiences.
    • dejv 11y ago
      I did it for two years. It is possible, but the farming work is quite demanding and you always have something to do outside. I also find it much interesting to go out to do work or just visit neighbours than actually sit down and do much coding.
  • crpatino 11y ago
    In a way, he's doing that. Not the company thing, but he still holds a part time job as a programmer. But then, there is the issue of focus. How good can you get at both trades at the same time, if people normally take years to go through only one of the learning curves.
    • jkot 11y ago
      Those two jobs are not mutually exclusive. Programming is mentally demanding, farm work physically (with some sleep deprivation). I think it is manageable with good planning.
      • crpatino 11y ago
        Farm work is exclusively physically demanding only if you want to be the village idiot for ever. Machines (or for the matter, mules/oxen) are better suited for this than humans. While there is a lot of physical work in farming, you need to keep a fair amount of tacit knowledge in your head and recall it almost instantly on an unpredictable basis. This is specially true if you are working with animals (which the OP is). It is not overly taxing to remember it all once you already know it, but when you are a newbie you have to put the effort and learn it in the first place. More over, if you are learning it the traditional way (aka, following around an old hand and do as told) you are expected to figure out the patterns and learn on your own. This guys are no experts in pedagogy and since they are just mimicking their own mentors, an explanation of what you've just seen/done may or may not follow.
• cubano 11y ago
  Life is way too short to not do what your soul tells you to do, no matter what that may be. Congrats on finding something that soothes yours.
• heckubadu 11y ago
  Very nice!
• cnlwsu 11y ago
  Grass is always greener, my path was the opposite and I love the city and being a software engineer.
• niix 11y ago
  I can relate to this. I left San Francisco a few weeks ago and moved to South Carolina. I love software development, and I'm not sure if I can trade it for anything at this point and time in my life. I'm currently working remotely from South Carolina and in the search for a nice house with some land, so I can live a bit more rural while still being able to do what I love.
  • toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Same here, although I picked the west coast of Florida near Tampa.
    • niix 11y ago
      Crazy! I'm from Tampa originally haha.
      • toomuchtodo 11y ago
        Beers/coffee on me if you're ever back in town :)
• Intermernet 11y ago
  When I was younger, I was a rock-climbing bum, and used to travel Australia on a meagre budget to visit climbing areas. Near Mt Arapiles in Victoria, there was (hopefully still is) a farm that had worked out that local climbers were the best source of cheap labour :-) They literally paid a day's wage with a bag of food. I spent many happy days working on that farm (I already came from a rural background so was comfortable around animals etc) and the work always made me feel stronger, and more importantly, useful. I also had the heart wrenching experience of animals dying in my hands, and was only consoled by the fact that the farmer was more distraught than I. It made me realise that the best of farmers know their animals, and care greatly for their animals above and beyond any possible monetary value. The fine line between "stock" and "pets" is a difficult one to walk. It made me realise that the depictions of Wal and Cooch (especially Cooch, who would take a baby bottle to new-born lambs in the middle of a storm) from the wonderful comic strip "Footrot Flats" [1] were poignantly accurate, and that I really don't have what it takes to be a full time farmer. I wish the author the best of luck, and a happy, harmonious life for the future. Also, playing live music at the local pub with your son is awesome :-) [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footrot_Flats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footrot_Flats
• kang 11y ago
  First, make your living through the Internet from anywhere. Then, use the Internet to decide where to live. -balaji s
• jroseattle 11y ago
  I grew up on a farm. Not surprised to see this decision in the slightest. Farming is tough -- physically, financially, and in the end emotionally. But it is still a very rewarding life. I can remember sitting on my grandfather's lap, riding on his John Deere two-cylinder (it was called a Johnny Popper.) Pre-school? I went to pre-farming. I was probably 3 years old the first time I rode a tractor. By the time I was 8, I was driving that popper while two of my grandfather's farm hands tossed hay bales onto a flatbed trailer. We drove back to the barn, and I scampered up to the second floor and waited as those guys tossed those hay bales up through a huge opening. I had to stack the hay bales, and had to run my ass off to keep up. Then, we'd do it all over again until the barn was full. I was exhausted every day, but my grandfather allowed me to drink my first beer with those guys when we were finished. It sounds awful, but it was an amazing experience. I'm no longer out in the field. For me now, the feeling of working on something with my hands is cathartic. Some of my best days for relaxing involve doing simple yardwork around our house. The farm life works for some people, but not for others. What is great is that no one need debate whether that choice is right -- it only matters to yourself. Good for this guy, I think he made a great choice for himself.
  • baldfat 11y ago
    I made friends with two brothers one was a farmer (Wheat most with some mustard and rape seed). For three years my two week vacation was farming during the morning and than water skiing for the evening at their farm. Went to bed dead tired and than continue to work on the farm. I had a desk job and I enjoyed every second of the farm work. I certainly would not want to be a farmer but man it was a ton of fun to do temporarily.
  • jorgeleo 11y ago
    "The farm life works for some people" I agree. I couldn't do farm, I have bad allergies to pollen, dust, and too much time under the sun and I become red as a lobster, and it is painful But programming is what I love to do. So I will say "The programmer life works for some people" I wouldn't call the original article "The death of a programmer", I would call it "The born of a farmer". He figure out were he feels happier, and that is good thing which sometimes means leaving behind what is hip for the masses, but that is not a failure, that is centering
• fit2rule 11y ago
  Sheep and farming are not incompatible with programming, or else: explain Jeff Minter!
• michaelochurch 11y ago
  I admire this man for the honesty and courage to do something different. I read the companion post and got to this: Today, however, I sit here writing this post as a 32-year-old man with a head of gray hair, a mind that cannot stop thinking a million miles a minute about a million different things, and eyes that have only been open to the digital world. I am burnt out on writing code. I am burnt out on configuration. I am burnt out on automating monotonous tasks. I am burnt out on completing tickets. I am burnt out on completing tickets that undo what those other tickets accomplished. I am burnt out on debugging third-party advertising code. I am burnt out on having 16 terminal tabs open. I am burnt out on contributing to the “connected” culture. I am burnt out on having a “40 hour” work week that actually occupies the majority of my mental time. I am burnt out on sitting at a desk. This state of being burnt out has invaded so much of my out-of-work life that I have decided to take my Life back. So much of that is congruent with my experience as well. Yet, for reasons that seem hard to explain at first, I go deeper into the beast rather than move away from it (and my choice is in no way superior). I love what technology can do-- liberate humanity from drudgery, improve the human quality of life, make interactions and knowledge and discovery possible that wouldn't otherwise be-- and I enjoy the intellectual challenge. I hate so much of what it's actually used to do: serve the short-term economic interests of power-holders who are incompetent but don't want to give up their seats. As much as I love being in the forest, I must be a natural urbanite because I have a natural draw toward being in the main fight. Even with the risk and clamor, I like carrying a sword (metaphorically speaking, since my chosen war is cultural and therefore fought by typing rather than swinging a blade). I feel like it is my destiny to be in the fight to take technology back from the current crop of useless power-holders. I want to be in this war, and I really fucking want to win it, but I can't blame anyone for wanting to get the fuck out of it and work on a farm. It's an appealing idea. I'm not anti-farming (I mean, I like food) but I also recognize that, without technology, life would be a lot worse than it is right now. Not all of us can be farmers, not anymore. Munching Jira tickets to appease some middle manager may be a waste of life (nay, it is) but I still feel like what we do as technologists (or, at least, what we can do) is important. We're a part of evolution and progress... even if many of us get drawn down into nonsense. Reading the OP, I'm really glad that he found work that enjoys and that gives him a sense of purpose, and I hope that that never changes for him. I also find it sad that technology gave him such a useless, negative experience (munching tickets instead of driving forward progress) and see fit to take that as a warning.
• thebouv 11y ago
  While I certainly don't see myself rushing off to work on a farm, I do feel a bit lately like I'm looking for something "more". The day-to-day drudgery of sitting in cubicle is slowly turning me sour. I've made the first steps to more working at home (just asking my boss). I'll start with 1 day a week and I'm already feeling great about that tiny shift.
• Bouncingsoul1 11y ago
  What you are and what you do are 2 diffrent things.Programmer is a profession not a lifestyle. I was this Outdoor Guy, I did skiing instructor in the winter and mountainbike guide in the sommer. Later on I was this Soundtec Guy, you know doing shows in diffrent towns every night. My mistake and why I failed at both in the end was because I thought this would be my life while it only was my job. And like every job there are pros and cons and when times where getting harder I failed because I couldn't think of it as my only my job but my life. We tend to romanticize our jobs, which is I think is the basic problem here.
• JustSomeNobody 11y ago
  I couldn't do this; I'm too addicted to always being "on". I'm constantly checking my work phone for email (even after hours and on weekends) just to see what's going on (I'm a remote worker). I constantly look at my phone (reading everything and anything; not using FB as I'm not very social that way). I lie down to go to sleep at night and my brain is literally buzzing. My focus is shit. The other day I thought I'd try the pomodoro technique to help with that, but proceeded to spend 6 hours trying to find just the right timer. Then ended up writing my own. But there's no way in Hell I could stop being always "on".
  • rev_bird 11y ago
    > The other day I thought I'd try the pomodoro technique to help with that, but proceeded to spend 6 hours trying to find just the right timer. Then ended up writing my own. This describes my habits so well. Some days, it's exhilarating to have so many options for where to point my brain, but other days, I just wish I could sit down and focus on something I actually thought was important.
  • flycaliguy 11y ago
    Thing is, if like you say it's not a facebook style social engagement you are chasing, this might be the life for you. Farming is complicated. Based on the images of his homemade farming tools and the fact that he also makes music with his kid, seems like this guy is "on". You would have lots of information to look over all day. Weather alone can be addictive and constantly updating, just think of all the cool dynamic maps and satellite images you could refresh on your phone all day. Best part is you get to sit down after a long day and eat your output! Devour yesterday's effort and let it power you into the next.
  • randomdata 11y ago
    My home farm has fibre and LTE internet access. No need to give up being "on" while on the farm. We're better connected out here than a lot of urban locations.
  • CrackpotGonzo 11y ago
    Have you tried getting rid of your smartphone? I switched my iPhone for a simple Nokia and the benefits to my focus and general happiness were amazing. Highly recommend. I had the same feeling of always being "on" and not being able to disconnect.
• hackyzack 11y ago
  I envy you.
• la6470 11y ago
  Frankly I think it is not the whole picture. The guy is not sharing his long term financial plans for his family or his financial situation. Without that information the picture is incomplete.
• ShinyCyril 11y ago
  I would highly recommend trying Wwoofing (World-wide Work on Organic Farms) sometime. The premise is that in return for your help on the farm, the host family provides you with food and accommodation for the duration of your visit. My girlfriend and I spent just shy of a month in a little co-op in Goolawah, Australia, and almost two months on a little farm owned by a spritely old woman and her husband, just outside of Princeton. Waking up at 5AM to milk cows as the sun rises is a very liberating experience.
• xentronium 11y ago
  Has anyone ever implemented a farming haven for programmers recovering from burnout? Stories of downshifting are so popular it must have been done somewhere.
  • pp19dd 11y ago
    This is just my opinion, but I think programmers aren't really special or unique for going from programming to farming or other types of physical jobs. I think that we just talk about it more online (and here in particular) because we're digital natives. There are plenty of people that have done 180 degree turns out there, and they don't necessarily have forums where they can share this need for change. An old friend of mine was a car rental manager for ERAC. It's a stressful but stable job with room for growth. He rose to a damage control supervisor position at the Sacramento headquarters, then spent a couple of years feeling depressed, thinking something is missing in his life. Fast forward to 5 years later, and I find out he's now an offshore diver based out of Houston. From office ties to diving suits, helmet, breathing hose, belt and breast weights, and leaded feet. He couldn't be happier.
• RankingMember 11y ago
  I think lots of people feel like doing this, but few really get the chance (make the decision) to. I know even just doing "dumb" outside work like mowing the lawn makes me feel better, mentally and physically, after sitting in front of a computer all day.
• joshrotenberg 11y ago
  I applaud the author for having the guts to make such a drastic change and see it through. I get it. I'd be curious to know, though, and without being too critical, how this change affects his kids? Did they have to change schools? Leave friends and be further away from family? I ask mainly because as a kid I was often a victim of my mother's fickleness, and as a parent it has been a goal of mine to give my kids the stability I didn't have. Again, not a judgement here, just interested in hearing about that aspect of this endeavor.
• ChuckMcM 11y ago
  I have met a number of people over the years who have had similar transformations. They went from doing what they believed the should be doing, to something they believed in/wanted to be doing. The transformation is huge. Life is way to short.
• thoman23 11y ago
  I know nothing about farming, but I wouldn't have guessed the farming lifestyle would afford more free time than many programming jobs. You can get a good (but boring) programming job at a megacorp/bank/government and work 35 hours a week and still have lots of time for family. You don't have to succumb to the 80 hours/week startup mentality. Also, money is not meaningless. Even if you eschew the material lifestyle, you still need to consider the financial demands of raising children and saving for retirement.
• dejv 11y ago
  Sounds quite like my story: after ten years in industry I've got quite enough, can't really enjoy programming and didn't seen much future in this field for me. So I get back to village I grew up, bought couple of vineyards and started small winery. I went out nearly every morning to work in fields, spent days in cellar and did just few hours of programming per week to pay my bills. It was great for some time, not having to think about real life outside, being really free to just enjoy pointless discussions in local pub till early in the morning, then spent some time with neighbours just drinking coffee in the morning and gossiping before going out to do some work outside. I was sure to never work in technology ever again, but I relapsed and here I am back in the city, running company in ag-tech space (lab hw for wine analysis) and coming back to my fields just for weekends (and odd week days here and there) to take care of my vines. I did downsized my plans for mid-sized winery for now and keeping the operation just as a hobby and side business, but I am sure I am going back fulltime once I am done with my company.
• Dangeranger 11y ago
  My first job at 12 years old was on a farm, I worked on farms until I was 16. This post reminds me of what a demanding, exhausting, yet rewarding experience farming is. Changing professions to embrace an alternative lifestyle allows you to be enriched more fully, and to gain the perspectives of each lifestyle you experience. It is my hope that the writer is able to apply the skills gained while writing code to his new occupation and way of life. While I was working on farms my mind was constantly working out how to apply efficiencies and work arounds to common problems. I use those skills now in my day job as a programmer, but the reverse could be applied in similarly effective ways. Everyone should diversify their experiences. Too often a laser focus for extended periods yields productivity at the expense of flexibility, and eventual burnout. Over specialization can be as dangerous as generalization.
• magice 11y ago
  You know, farming may be wonderful and all. But it's not silver bullet. Nor does it make programming any less rewarding, provided that one does it right. In fact, it is YOUR OWN DAMNED fault if you fail to sing with your children while you worked as a programmer. Wait, it's your own damn fault for pretty much everything in your life. Programming is not the disease; you are. I know people who finished extra degrees while working as programmer; I know people who climbs mountains while working as programmer; I know people who play music professionally while working as programmer; I know people who take excellent care of their family while working as a programmer. Your job exchanges (some) of your time for (some) money. The responsibility of adjusting the job to the life lies in your hand. Stop blaming programming for your troubles. You know, the whole "OMG! I got a new job! It's wonderful! It beats my previous job!" kind of silliness should really really stop. Most things have their rewards and challenges. Maybe farming suits you better. I don't know. However, judging from the kind of stupid judgment thrown around ("real world" and "no exception" and "I sing for my kids), doubt haunts my view. But oh well. Good luck. And stop bashing other people's job, please.
  • xb 11y ago
    Sitting in my fluorescent lit white walled office, about to pump out some code for the day, this article put a smile on my face and made me think about different options for life some time down the road aside from programming. The article was well written, wasn't judgemental, and provided some lightness to my day and to others. Chill out!
  • crpatino 11y ago
    It. Is. Not. About. You. Nobody's bashing your job. It's about someone sharing their own journey. On the other hand, I think you do us all a big disservice by clubbing down anyone who has anything slightly negative to say about our trade. If you cannot criticize, you cannot optimize.
  • vogt 11y ago
    The valid points that you are making are getting lost in the hostile tone. The article is about finding one's self (the author), not everyone's self. Farming isn't a silver bullet, but neither is programming. Of course. I see the value, appeal, and benefits in both. I don't believe the author intended to label programming a disease for anyone other than himself, so vilifying him for it seems pretty harsh.
• lcfcjs1 11y ago
  I just play farming simulator
• xkarga00 11y ago
  Well, the case with me is exactly the opposite. I come from a family of farmers and since a very very young age I found myself working in the fields and greenhouses, constantly day-dreaming about the time I would make it out of there for good. Now that finally that time has come, for one thing I'm sure: I'm never going back (or at least I won't go back for a long time to come). I love "sitting behind a desk and pumping out code", it's way more fun, comfortable, and profitable than digging in the ground, planting tomatoes, or picking gumbos. edit: I feel that I have to mention my enormous love for nature. There are a lot of ways to be close to it, farming is definitely not the only one.
  • randomdata 11y ago
    Similarly, I grew up on a dairy farm and have absolutely no desire to ever raise animals again. However, I eventually found myself cash cropping and love every minute of it. Farming is a pretty vague term, really.
• saganus 11y ago
  One thing that might off topic or it might just be my lack of farming-related knowledge, but, it seems in the third picture, the one with the calves (sp?) drinking milk from bottles... aren't those bottles too high? I mean, it seems like a very uncomfortable position to drink, no? I'm obviously no cow or cow expert for that matter, but it just struck me as odd.
  • worklogin 11y ago
    I imagine it's similar to drinking from a mother. One way or another they're twisting their heads or looking up.
  • xrange 11y ago
    Baby sheep are called lambs (which are pictured). "Calves" is the correct plural spelling of the singular "calf", which are baby cows.
    • saganus 11y ago
      Aha! Thanks for the correction. I knew I might be off.
• thrownaway2424 11y ago
  Actual farmers kinda hate the way wealthy professionals bring their piles of cash and drive up land prices. But I see the appeal.
• litha 11y ago
  Your life will be all around so much better!
• MyNameIsMK 11y ago
  Very refreshing. Hacking away at the keyboard day-in-day-out is definitely a draining experience. I enjoy talking walks once in a while and looking up at the sky. Its the little things that keep us alive.
• pugio 11y ago
  This is probably too extreme of a life change for most people to implement, but there are ways to gain some of the benefits without an entire lifestyle upheaval. Recently I've begun camping on business trips instead of using my hotel budget. I'll fly in with a tent, sleeping bag, laptop, and cooler bag, rent a car, and set up camp in whichever campground is closest to the city. Most of these places are meant for local families, and are equipped with water, power (for trailers), and showers. In the morning I drive into the city for business, then head back out to the campsite to hike, sit and think, and code. I haven't taken a smartphone with me, so those after-city hours are devoid of the usual notification hail. It's done wonders for my focus, motivation, and sense of purpose. Waking up to sunlight, birds chirping, and the scent of pine is an invigorating start to a day, and those twilight hours are great for going over designs and pre-planning coding time. A lot of that low-level building buzz of dissatisfaction vanishes after a few days of this. I think we need nature. We need freshness and quiet and the white noise of wind, birds, and streams. I would love a community/place where this was always possible, but for now, travel-business-camping has worked wonders. (And the look on my colleague's faces when I tell them about my "hotel"... priceless.)
  • Nicholas_C 11y ago
    > In the morning I drive into the city for business, then head back out to the campsite to hike, sit and think, and code. I haven't taken a smartphone with me, so those after-city hours are devoid of the usual notification hail. You must be a great programmer because there is no way I could program without Stack Overflow/Google.
    • xrange 11y ago
      ...Maybe it is an age thing? There was a time before Google and Stack Overflow.
      • gisenberg 11y ago
        There's also a complexity explosion to factor in, and saying that there was a time before Google and Stack Overflow seems a bit dismissive of that. Chances are, your app today is built on at least a dozen dependencies that require documentation and reference lookup several times throughout any given day.
• artur_makly 11y ago
  This brings up a utopian dream i've been having. Imagine an self-sufficient community of designers, coders, families and everyone in between working on socially-positive startups and putting in some nominal personal time into the community farm. A 'commune' of the future.
• katielo 11y ago
  I'm a programmer, my dad's a dairy farmer. We're both happy with our choices. Anyone thinking of the farm life, just be careful of romanticizing it as this article does. You have to be very efficient and manage risk extremely well - a lot is out of your control (the weather, crop/livestock diseases, the prices of livestock feed/fertilizer/seed, the price of the final commodity you sell which is determined by global markets). Farmers often have razor thin margins and it can be very stressful when it doesn't rain and your crops/livestock start dying, or when input prices in your local area are above global sales prices for your commodity. These things happen from time to time and must be planned for properly (insure/self-insure and don't freak out), or you risk emotional and financial bankruptcy. This takes some doing. My dad can handle this risk and he is a very happy and successful farmer. I can't. I'm a very happy programmer.
• yellowapple 11y ago
  Was this all because you encountered a MongoDB advocate?
• crimsonalucard 11y ago
  Coding is like running. Some people love it, some people hate it. Either way it drains us. No one can run forever.
• wglb 11y ago
  My journey is quite the reverse. I grew up on a dryland wheat farm in northern Montana, 60 miles from Canada, 90 miles from Glacier Park. Dryland means that there are about 12 inches of rain in a year, about what Tucson, AZ gets. Growing season is about two days shorter than what it takes to grow wheat. I did most of the tractor driving during the summer starting when I was 12, and my Dad and I had to do all the harvesting by ourselves the summer that I was 13, as the hired man quit two weeks before harvest. Harvest was 100 hour weeks. In the winter, Dad went to the library each day, checked out 3 books, (the maximum then), returned them the next day, got three more. Mom would always be cooking and cleaning, getting us kids off to school, secretly writing poetry. Farming for us was mostly about driving. Tractor, truck, swather, combine, rake, fuel pickup. Not so romantic as painted by the article. Lots of fond memories. Sunsets would often fill the vast sky. Light in the sky until 10:45. Milky Way an astonishing sight. Occasional Aurora. On the tractor on a summer day, if you watched very carefully, you could see the dust devils form, and see the smooth-walled tube raise up a 1000 feet or more, then disappear. The satisfaction of learning how to drive a caterpillar pulling a duckfoot plow and making a half-mile long very straight line. The satisfaction of the end of harvest, which statistically would be on the day that the sky turned black and the fields were inaccessible for weeks. But hard work during the summer, for sure. 10 hours each day on a tractor, no radio or other entertainment other than daydreams. (And still the only place that you can find me singing. And even then, not very often.) The risk incumbent with a state known for violent weather making sure you got all the harvest in in the approximately 30 days that you had available. Or the day in late June when I was about 8 that a sudden thunderstorm came up and the three of us watched, transfixed, as a 10 minute hailstorm wiped out the crop. Dad says "Well, that's it for this year". And there are some irreconcilables. Judy Blunt in Breaking Clean said it very well about her own boys after she left the farm and moved to the university town: "On the farm, they were men in training. Here, they are just boys". What most folks don't understand is that in America, the lives of small farmers, staring with my Grandfather's generation, was more affected by technology than any other way of life. A nearly two orders of magnitude of improvement in productivity over that time span. So even the farm of my youth isn't any more. Patterns are already different, machines are larger, more sophisticated. I am pretty sure that both Dad and Mom don't have much romance for that way of life. I couldn't wait to get out of there to University, with the full support and encouragement of my family. Even thought there isn't really a horizon here in Illinois. You can't see what the weather is until it is upon you. I do get back now and again, having some family there. The sunsets are spectacular. So is the wind, occasionally tipping over boxcars. And there is February. But props to the author of the article. Do what you love. But I can't help but wonder if there isn't a bit of a Hawthorne effect for both of us.
• galfarragem 11y ago
  Our need for a low-density or high-density environment apparently change during our life: - Childhood: kids need space, safety/freedom and some friends to explore the world. Countryside and suburbs are the best option. - Social years: humans are social and hierarchical. We need a place with plenty of opportunities to experience the world and prove our value in the different hierarchies. Cities are the best option. - Maturity: after we had experienced the world and/or when our place in hierarchy gets stagnant, we want to slow down. Countryside is the best option.
• downandout 11y ago
  What he doesn't say is that savings from his programming work have likely enabled him to enjoy the "escape" of farm life while supporting two kids. How many farm hands have enough free cash to support children and have a computer/phone/internet connection from which to blog about the wonderful experience?
• thewarrior 11y ago
  Might be interested to know that Kent Beck of XP fame is also a goat farmer.