5 ms·

And how exactly do you PROVE you didn't give anyone your pin? If the only way they put the liability on you is if you admit you gave someone your pin, it seems

by tw04 12y ago

And how exactly do you PROVE you didn't give anyone your pin? If the only way they put the liability on you is if you admit you gave someone your pin, it seems stupid to even bother. To me, knowing how things usually work in the US - they'll claim it's an on your honor system, and then suddenly it will be "well we think you gave someone your pin so we aren't covering the charges". Conveniently a lawsuit will be more expensive for you, the consumer, than just paying off the fraudulent charges.

Nursie 12y ago
In my experience in the UK you don't have to... But then my (chip) card was cloned to a mag-swipe card and someone attempted to use the clone in an ATM in Canada. I don't really know what happens if someone manages to get your original card and your PIN. AFAICT there's not a lot of fraud that happens this way.
- DanBC 12y ago
  What about the courier fraud and the ringback fraud?
  - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
    I think the bank could argue you didn't take reasonable care if you spoke the PIN but if you typed it in ... technically you didn't give it to a person? Everything I've read says the bank have to prove you didn't take reasonable care; I suppose that a convincing enough fraud would mean you were safe from that accusation whilst just "give me your PIN and I'll go to your bank for you" wouldn't. Not sure if there's any caselaw to follow none of the newspaper reports on fraud convictions like this seems to mention it??
pbhjpbhj 12y ago
>And how exactly do you PROVE you didn't give anyone your pin? // In the cases I've heard of it's something like a conman comes to the door, wants money "for a building job" or just "for charity", whatever. Says they'll get you the money from the bank, you give them the card and PIN, the bank then isn't obliged to cover the loss. The measure in the Lending Code (a UK financial institution code of practice) is that provided you've taken "reasonable care" then they cover frauds; giving someone your PIN or writing it down with your card constitute not taking reasonable care. That seems quite fair to me. http://www.choose.net/money/guide/faqs/credit-card-fraud-victim-rights.html http://www.choose.net/money/guide/faqs/credit-card-fraud-vic... gives good detail. The Lending Code website doesn't but the full code is at http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/individual/lending-code.asp http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/individual/lending-c... with additional info, again the UKCA is an association of credit/debit card issuers in the UK.

by tw04 12y ago

Nursie 12y ago

In my experience in the UK you don't have to... But then my (chip) card was cloned to a mag-swipe card and someone attempted to use the clone in an ATM in Canada. I don't really know what happens if someone manages to get your original card and your PIN. AFAICT there's not a lot of fraud that happens this way.

DanBC 12y ago
What about the courier fraud and the ringback fraud?
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  I think the bank could argue you didn't take reasonable care if you spoke the PIN but if you typed it in ... technically you didn't give it to a person? Everything I've read says the bank have to prove you didn't take reasonable care; I suppose that a convincing enough fraud would mean you were safe from that accusation whilst just "give me your PIN and I'll go to your bank for you" wouldn't. Not sure if there's any caselaw to follow none of the newspaper reports on fraud convictions like this seems to mention it??

pbhjpbhj 12y ago

>And how exactly do you PROVE you didn't give anyone your pin? // In the cases I've heard of it's something like a conman comes to the door, wants money "for a building job" or just "for charity", whatever. Says they'll get you the money from the bank, you give them the card and PIN, the bank then isn't obliged to cover the loss. The measure in the Lending Code (a UK financial institution code of practice) is that provided you've taken "reasonable care" then they cover frauds; giving someone your PIN or writing it down with your card constitute not taking reasonable care. That seems quite fair to me. http://www.choose.net/money/guide/faqs/credit-card-fraud-victim-rights.html http://www.choose.net/money/guide/faqs/credit-card-fraud-vic... gives good detail. The Lending Code website doesn't but the full code is at http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/individual/lending-code.asp http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/individual/lending-c... with additional info, again the UKCA is an association of credit/debit card issuers in the UK.