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What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

128 points by tokenadult 12y ago

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
This resonated with me - a poor farm kid from Iowa going to Stanford. I had my student loan plus zilch. Other students were off to Hawaii for vacation. Me, I had to bum a place to stay over breaks when the dorms were closed. I never asked questions; never used any tutors or talked to a professor; never studied in groups. It was a lonely life.
- impendia 12y ago
  > I never asked questions; never used any tutors or talked to a professor; I am a professor (albeit at a non-elite university). How do I persuade students such as yourself to ask questions, to use tutors, to show up to office hours, and to talk to me?
  - deleted 12y ago
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  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    Hard. I would have evaded your attempts to talk to me. Anything to avoid standing out from the rest. Maybe if everyone had a regular TA one-on-one or something? So they could identify, in private, who needed help and get that scheduled.
  - dzdt 12y ago
    Next time you return a graded paper to them, write a note asking them to come to your next office hour or make a separate appointment to see you.
  - HarryHirsch 12y ago
    25 years ago, at my university, the first thing in the first lecture the professor said was to form study groups. Those who didn't would feel the loneliness and pressure too overwhelming and would drop out. This was over on the old continent, not in America. This is asking the students to show initiative, I don't know how well that would work with contemporary American kids.
  - EliRivers 12y ago
    Make it explicit. Stand at the front, where you usually do (I presume), and say in a big loud voice that you are aware that many of the students in front of you are used to doing everything themselves, without help and without asking for help. And that this does not carry over and here the rules are different and they are now expected to ask questions and seek to discuss, even if they already understand, because an academic tutorial is not just extra lecture time, but a socratic expansion of understanding that every - EVERY - student benefits from, and leaves knowing more than they did when they went in. You might (will) have to say it more than once, and very explicitly, because they are used to hearing well-meaning similar statements that they have learned to ignore. But just say it, explicitly. They're not stupid; just conditioned. Breaking through that conditioning is hard, so hard. The rich kids see your office-hours as a right (and, as I expect you know, see extensions on deadlines and arguing their grades up and being entitled to second chances as a right), the poor kids don't really believe they exist. Breaking that conditioning is possible, so long as you can see it to hit it.
  - camikazeg 12y ago
    When I was in college I didn't even know what that conversation would sound like. I knew that I was supposed to go to office hours and start a relationship with my professors, but I pictured it as me standing in their doorway, not knowing what to say.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      I recall that! I (once) went to the Engineering building during office hours, lurked in the hallway, peeked in his door. He was grading papers. So I didn't bother him and left. And that was it for me visiting during office hours.
  - logfromblammo 12y ago
    If a student is struggling and does not use the available resources for catching up with the rest of the class, it may be for any of several reasons: - Asking for help is a display of weakness, and that student has been conditioned to conceal his or her weaknesses. - The student has feelings of inferiority that lead him or her to assume that they do not deserve additional assistance. - The student has given his or her last pennies to the bursar and the bookseller, is literally living in a van and gleaning the trash to meet survival needs, and is avoiding peers and professors to conceal this lifestyle. - The student has a job, and the work schedule interferes with your office hours. You don't pay them to show up, so you lose the conflict. - The student is simply unaware that such resources are available in general, or available to him or her, specifically. - The student has adopted compensation strategies to deal with an environment unsupportive of their goals. Being invisible and anonymous may be one of them. Wearing a "mask personality" in public may be another. - The student is conditioned to believe that no one offers help without expecting something in return. In some cases, accepting help is actually dangerous. (Remember how I helped you out with your rent? Good. Hide this gun for me. You owe me.) Just use your position of perceived authority, and order them to show up. If you teach an intro-level class, draw lots, and assign every one of your students to visit you during your office hours in a specific, scheduled, 10-minute window prior to midterms. This is where you actually teach the student how to interact with professors outside the classroom. With each student, talk a little about your class, and a little about anything else. Make it a pass-fail item on the syllabus. Show up? Get some free course credit. Don't show? 0 points. (If you really kick ass at this, you can play "friend matchmaker" and try to coerce your students into befriending and helping each other.) Remember, there are no classes in most public high schools on how to "do college". Those kids are learning it as they go.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      Another reason: the student grew up in a rural community, and has rarely dealt with anyone they don't know and aren't related to, so are congenitally incapable of approaching a professor unintroduced.
  - honestcoyote 12y ago
    One thing that helped me was the professor emphasizing email and the class forums on the crappy uni CMS. I know you'd probably prefer students showing up in person, but for people like me, email ensured I would stay in communication with the professor outside of class. I would feel like I was wasting the prof's time if I went to her office with a dumb question, but didn't feel the same pressure if I emailed the question. I ended up having extended conversations with the majority of my professors this way, and ultimately built relationships which made me feel comfortable about dropping in during office hours.
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- re_todd 12y ago
  > Other students were off to Hawaii for vacation. Me, I had to bum a place to stay over breaks when the dorms were closed. So true. Having attended a few colleges in California, I got tired of everyone else going to their parent's cabin over break in Tahoe, Mammoth, or Big Bear. And the dorms would close for a week or two, so I couldn't concentrate fully on my finals while I worried about where I'd stay and not have to sleep a few nights in a park. > never used any tutors or talked to a professor I had a hard time talking to my professor, and I noticed others from blue-color backgrounds have difficulty as well. Upper middle-class kids never seemed to have a problem talking to their professors, which seemed to give them a significant advantage.
lordnacho 12y ago
I would caution against too much class consciousness. My parents came to the west in a boat, much like the ones that are sinking every day in the med. They scraped together a living and tuition fees running Chinese food joints. When I arrived in Oxford, I did realise there were some interesting characters around. One guy with a posh accent stuck waved his chequebook outside his room during a tuition fee demonstration, offering to pay for everyone's tuition if he could just be allowed some peace. There are dudes walking the street in top hats. There are kids with sports cars. But why should you feel alienated from them? You can be friends with the ones who want to be. They are just as curious about you. Some of them actually feel a bit guilty about having ridden into a top uni on their fathers' coattails. There's also people who've had it worse than you. One friend actually fled from shelling, and was lucky to miss a boat that got sunk by helicopters. When you meet people, start with what you have in common. You're all young, and academically gifted. You're in the same place, you speak the same language.
- xxxyy 12y ago
  I'm from east Europe, so the problem could not concern me as it has been written, as nobody here really flashes their money around like a clown. But I remember the feeling of being excluded as a student not coming from a top notch high school. The majority of the other people had nice groups of friends from day zero. But guess what - I graduated with a really good diploma, easily landed a job at a major tech company, and most of these people are now my friends or colleagues. What matters in the end is your results, and your results only.
- cperciva 12y ago
  When I arrived in Oxford, I did realise there were some interesting characters around. One guy with a posh accent stuck waved his chequebook outside his room during a tuition fee demonstration, offering to pay for everyone's tuition if he could just be allowed some peace. There are dudes walking the street in top hats. There are kids with sports cars. When were you in Oxford? In my day I never saw any top hats, barring the occasional actor; and even the richest kids didn't have cars, because (a) there was nowhere to park them, and (b) you could walk faster than you could drive anywhere.
kelukelugames 12y ago
I'm happy this is here. Anytime affirmative action, race issues, etc is discussed, someone will always say "it's a class issue! What about poor white people?" Well, here's an article about that.
- deleted 12y ago
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  - kelukelugames 12y ago
    Don't need to be aggressive. I think everyone has their struggles, whether it be gender, race, or class based. I just like learning from other people's perspectives.
dba7dba 12y ago
I was first from my family (poor) to attend a well known PUBLIC university in US. Like top 5 in US or world, in name recognition. I did not feel like I fit in. Many of the kids at this public university just did not get into one of the ivys but definitely middle/upper-middle class. Many kids in the school that came from poor families often went to a public high school where it was easier to get good enough grades to get into the university. Once they got in though, they were just not prepared for the rigorous competition to get good grades.
- deleted 12y ago
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- kelukelugames 12y ago
  I grew up in Cupertino and went to UC Berkeley. I came from a well off family but I had to pay for school. I met a lot of the "work study" students while washing dishes in the cafeteria during my first semester. Wearing an uniform and a hairnet to serve fellow students doesn't give an 18 year old the best self esteem. On the flip side, rich kids like my sister shadows their cousin during surgery, winter-breaks in Dubai, and studies abroad in France. It's a different life. Assuming everything is the same, money still gives a stupid amount of advantages.
- colechristensen 12y ago
  One always has to separate what is best for you, what gets the best rating in an opinion poll, and the actual positive qualities of an institution.
- pbrb 12y ago
  UoC? I went there for grad school, have a well paying job, and am from what I would call an upper middle class background... I didn't feel like I fit in. My peers were mostly from very wealthy families, a large majority of them treating the degree like a check mark on a resume to complement their other masters degrees.
- barry-cotter 12y ago
  There are no public universities in the top 5 in the US. The top three are Harvard, Yale and Princeton. Stanford is basically comparable. The fifth spot goes to either MIT or University of Chicago, both also private. That was pulled out of my ass but I just looked up the USNWR rankings and Berekeley is 20, and is the first public university on the list. The universities I mentioned form 6 of the top 7, along with Columbia.
protomyth 12y ago
"Disadvantaged students are accustomed to doing everything on their own because they rarely have parents educated enough to help them with things like homework or college applications, so they may be less likely to go to a writing center or ask a professor for extra help." The author missed the much larger problem in this statement. The school system these students are from are often poor with incompetent staff[1]. The competent staff are mostly dealing with students with problems and leaving the bright students to look after themselves. Resource allocation is a harsh mistress. 1) as an example, $2,000 a year (1988 USD) down the tube because a school official couldn't be bothered to mail a letter.
stegosaurus 12y ago
I attended an elite UK university having had a poor upbringing. This article reads painfully to me. I don't have the words to describe why, but I can try. The closest I can come is to say that this idea of inclusiveness is terminally broken. It's a sort of bandage over a huge chasm of differences. For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Change the accent, the clothes, the pop culture references, the 'back home...' stories. Avoid the discussions about parents. The list goes on. My transition into adulthood at present is essentially a game of throwing away my connections to that past. Not intentionally, but because living a double life is just too difficult. Visiting my hometown I feel like more of a tourist each time. Money is a huge divider, the gulf between the working class and middle classes in this regard is enormous. I am hardwired to assume that people cannot afford anything. My basic instinct is to design activities that are free. Wealthier people do not always appreciate this. They might want to go and do something more expensive - and why not? They can. Friendship groups. I could waffle on seemingly forever but words can't really express how odd I find all of this. Different species...
- kelukelugames 12y ago
  > For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Yes! Thank you for using the perfect word for how I feel. I'm sure rich people have "rich people baggage" but I believe they are either a) not a deal blocker or b) mitigated by their advantages. Edit: I have a few 1% friends. As far as I can tell, rich people baggage is usually complaining about money.
  - taurath 12y ago
    Rich people baggage comes out whenever they don't have full control of a situation.
- dbbolton 12y ago
  >For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Change the accent, the clothes, the pop culture references, the 'back home...' stories. Avoid the discussions about parents. The list goes on. This sounds like a perfect summary of Dick Whitman's transition into Don Draper.
nutate 12y ago
I can answer this, just wrote an answer then deleted it. Bottom line: If you are poor and can figure out this loophole, just do it. On the balance I'm very, very glad I did.
iaw 12y ago
The most logistically frustrating part of the ordeal: "Dining halls at some schools, for example, close for spring break, though some students can’t afford to leave campus."
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Even during the semester, they didn't serve on Sunday. Presumably because you were all out with friends, eating at a pub or whatever. I just didn't eat on Sunday night.
  - iaw 12y ago
    Wow, we at least had 7 day service during the semester.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      My buddy was an expert at finding all-you-can-eat buffet service. Couldn't afford the food service. That buffet was his meal for the day.
  - cperciva 12y ago
    Huh, I had completely forgotten about that. I had the same experience in Oxford -- my college served breakfast/lunch/dinner 6 days a week, but on Sunday there was just a brunch, and most weeks I ended up not eating dinner on Sunday.
    - lordnacho 12y ago
      Which college were you at? We had one day a week without food at Corpus, and I just found a couple of friends to cook with.
      - cperciva 12y ago
        Wadham.
  - 12y ago
ChuckMcM 12y ago
I don't think this is limited to schools. All through life you will find that there are people with more, or fewer, resources than you have and interactions may be adversely affected by that. The example of going out to dinner and then catching a movie is a good one. In a mid to large sized metropolitan area that is an expenditure of $40 - $100 (depending) and that can represent anywhere from .1% to 10% of a person's take home pay. So people gravitate to socializing with folks who have the same sort of budget for recreational expenses. And it can get even weirder when you're wildly different in available resources. Consider the following illustrative example Bob is a very high net worth individual, he owns an interest in a Gulfstream jet. While folks are hanging out they hear about a restaurant in Santa Fe (over 1,000 miles away) that is really great. Bob thinks it would be a great place to go for dinner. So he invites folks to dinner, when they show up everyone gets on the plane and flys to Santa Fe and eats at this restaurant which has been reserved (entirely) for this dinner. Bob is trying to be friendly and help everyone share the experience of a restaurant they were just talking about. Except that everyone on the plane that wasn't extremely wealthy felt really weird about the whole experience. (surreal might be better). So its easy to be friends with Bob, he's a nice guy, but it is hard to "hang out" with Bob as his idea of a reasonable idea of what to do next, can sometimes collide with your idea of reality. That goes all the way down to things like skiing (fun, but expensive to do for the day). To avoid that you need communities of people with similar resource levels, and yes this means that things like the 1st generation outreach program mentioned in the article will collect all of the 'poor people' together, but it gives them a social structure to start from. And if they mix with the the 'not quite so poor' people they can start to move through the variations in strata. Once they graduate they are very likely to be at least part of the "middle" and their kids the "upper middle".
- kelukelugames 12y ago
  My boss's boss's boss once tried to socialize with me by asking what kind of boat I owned.
  - ChuckMcM 12y ago
    perfect example!
Crito 12y ago
I am curious whether anybody else has experienced this in professional settings. I make as much money as most of my peers at work, but fairly regularly I am made aware of the fact that my upbringing was less affluent than many of theirs. They have stories about exotic vacations they went on with their families, while my stories are about manual labor on farms. On some occasions somebody has made a crack at the expense of blue-collar workers, but I don't feel particularly far removed from that life.
- georgefrick 12y ago
  I struggle with this all the time, even with my wife. Spring break? You mean catch up on math / work extra hours week? Hey, I'm finally going to <insert location> next month! Oh, you've been there regularly since you were a kid? Then I suppose it would be boring. Oh, did I pronounce another word funny? Sorry, I only ever learned it from reading, nobody ever said it. But you can't say that shit out loud; you have to just grin and bear the embarrassment. I've learned to never ever bring up things like collecting cans/scrapping/etc.
- _delirium 12y ago
  I've definitely noticed that, though I think it varies by region and industry quite a bit. Engineering feels to me a little more "blue-collar" than the tech industry in its attitudes, even though engineers often don't make any less money. Some may have to do with where people come from, e.g. in large parts of engineering, the big "feeder schools" are good but not "elite" public schools: places like Purdue, Texas A&M, and Ohio State. People who at least sometimes work on-site in plants might also have more direct contact with blue-collar workers and feel more part of the same enterprise, though that is a minority of engineers. In terms of region, SF, LA, and NYC are just about the worst for being full of "moneyed family" type attitudes. I lived some years in Indiana and it was far more tolerable on that front, despite what you might expect from the respective regions' politics.
  - codva 12y ago
    Purdue graduate here, and I think that's a fair assessment. The rich kids seemed to be Management majors. They just needed a degree so that they could take over Daddy's company when he retired in a few years.
deleted 12y ago
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newpattern 12y ago
I attended Stanford business school on scholarship. I was brought up in a middle class household, not poor. I couldn't fit in with the rich kids, many of whom were sons/daughters of millionaire/billionaires, the bankers and the consultants. All the students were obsessed with networking and as a "lowly" engineer pursuing an MBA, my classmates never considered me worth getting to know. I tried but couldn't really forge any meaningful friendships.I felt like an outsider all the time. This was in sharp contrast to my experience in engineering school in India, where the only thing that mattered was how smart you are, irrespective of who your parents are.
- kelukelugames 12y ago
  Want to hob nob with GSB students? Should have gone to Stanfurd for engineering. "Hey you are a programmer? Want to make an app for me?"
  - newpattern 12y ago
    Haha, yes. Met a lot of those."I can't code but I have lots of ideas."
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  Business school is another beast entirely, in my experience. I studied engineering at an Ivy League school and sure I didn't fit in with the main finance/consulting/billionaire's child crowd, but there was a sizeable minority of peers pursuing careers in academia, medicine, etc. that I bonded with. In business school, the ratio of mainstream to sidestream was skewed so badly towards the mainstream that it was difficult to even keep my head above water amidst the torrent of "networkers" like you said.
jhundal 12y ago
Couple of thoughts: - Even if you provide resources to students for finding jobs/internships, they don't come with the same connections or experience as their wealthier peers so I'm wondering how much these help. For example, technology companies are typically going to hire those computer science students with the most programming experience, outside of a few small programs run by the larger companies (Google, Microsoft, Facebook) specifically for disadvantaged students. - Often you see stats on what percentage of students attending a university are low income (by some proxy like Pell grants), and what percentage of them graduate, but I have yet to see stats on career fields and income for these students. As someone from a blue collar middle class background getting an engineering degree I could count on one hand the number of students I met with backgrounds similar to mine (and this is at a fairly large school). I would expect these sorts of stats aren't very flattering to schools, but would love to see the numbers if they exist.
letitgo12345 12y ago
Hmm I went to an Ivy League school. Maybe it was the company I hung out with but there was never really any talk of how rich anyone's background was (in fact it was kind of taboo) -- the same way no one ever talked about what their SAT scores were. It seemed petty. There were several well off kids in my social circle (though not mega rich or anything) but there wasn't really any flaunting of wealth. In fact, many of the well off people I knew tried to save more money than some less well off people! There were also some poor kids around who people knew about but they were never really looked down upon.
- RockyMcNuts 12y ago
  +1 granted it was in the 80s but off the top of my head 40% on major financial aid and work-study, 40% upper middle class, maybe 20% were playing the wealth card and gentle mockery would usually keep'em in line. Not sure if times have changed that much or class consciousness is just a perennial trope for whinging.
- taurath 12y ago
  Its more about what you do on spring break, on weekends, when not in class, that sort of thing. Those who can afford expensive outings naturally drift away from those who can't.
cperciva 12y ago
This very much reminds me of my time in Oxford. I was there on a Commonwealth scholarship (referred to by many at the time as "Rhodes light") which paid for my tuition plus about £550/month of living expenses; this was enough to keep me alive, but it certainly wasn't generous. My friends were very obviously split into two groups -- poorer students from state schools who were first-generation Oxbridge attendees, and rich students from public (UK) or private (US) schools whose parents had been at Oxbridge or Ivy universities. Academically, I fit in well with the wealthier crowd -- my parents both have Oxford degrees and doctorates, and I was there on an academic scholarship -- but financially I was far closer to the first-generation students. On one memorable occasion I was invited to join a group for a weekend skiing in the Alps, and declined when I realized that it would cost me more than my rent for the month; and while all of my American friends flew home between terms (and often for long weekends in the middle of term), I stayed in Oxford over Christmas and Easter because the rent was cheaper than even the lowest-price plane tickets. But I can't fault Oxford for any of this: Indeed, the reason these socioeconomic strata were so obvious is precisely because they're doing a good job of bringing in students from a wide range of backgrounds. I never saw the University of my College doing anything which stigmatized or isolated students based on their background; the stratification was entirely due to the differences students brought to the university in how they saw the world and their places in it.
- learnstats2 12y ago
  >but financially I was far closer to the first-generation students I suggest you have understated your relative wealth. UK students at Oxford today are entitled to £478/month living expense (in 2015 money), which they get mostly as a student loan, to be repaid. Taking into account inflation, or looking at the equivalent scholarship today, I believe you were almost twice as well-off as the typical student from a poorer background. [I don't doubt there were students twice as rich again, but I question the suggestion that you weren't treated generously in this context]
  - cperciva 12y ago
    You may be somewhat under-stating your relative wealth. I was better off than most of the first-generation students, but not dramatically so. Students today are entitled to £478/month living expense (in 2015 money), which they get mostly as a student loan. The Oxford University website says that students typically spend between £951 and £1,405 per month on living expenses. When I arrived in Oxford (in 2001) I was told that students typically spent around £650/month (the scholarship administrator was very apologetic about the value of the living allowance). I haven't been in the UK for over a decade, so I'm not familiar with the state of student financial aid, but from what you've said I suspect that either the government bursaries/loans have gotten smaller or they were being supplemented by significant University and College awards.
enupten 12y ago
It has nothing to do with Ivies or the US; it's humanity.
alexashka 12y ago
I think the article misses the point: the problem with poor people is they don't have money. I'd know, I grew up poor. That's the problem, and ONLY problem. 'We can do more to be supportive' - JUST GIVE THEM MONEY. Oh they don't have to pay tuition, that's great. Do they have to pay rent and eat? Do they need to buy textbooks and clothes? Give them money, end of story. All this talk of self-esteem issues - please. Every 12-30 year old has self-esteem issues or ego-maniacal issues, time fixes all that. Just let them study and learn to fit in instead of washing dishes.
- smeyer 12y ago
  At the top ivy league schools, they do in fact also pay for rent, food, and even clothes (Harvard has a fund to pay for winter coats for students on certain levels of financial aid.) Harvard also has a fund to pay for some school-sponsored social events (like formal dances) as well as certain types of travel. There is still a notable class difference and there are still issues of money around different types of activities and behaviors, but it's not like they just pay tuition and call it a day. (I mentioned Harvard specifically a few times because I went there and am familiar, but I believe the situation is the same at a couple of other top ivy league schools.)
  - alexashka 12y ago
    If this is truly the case - I don't understand the notion of working part-time and studying at a top school. What is that all about? If it is as you say it is - then this is just folks boo-hooing about the challenges of... well... being in challenging situations. You are going to be put in those when it comes to your health, relationships and likely money, sooner or later. Everyone goes through that at some point in time - most come out alive :)
    - smeyer 12y ago
      I think it's a bit unreasonable to describe it all as just "boo-hooing". Obviously everyone has challenges, but that doesn't mean that it isn't worth considering how these could be mitigated. There is a real problem of social stratification and isolation that affects many students at these top schools in a way that substantially impacts their experiences, and while it may be difficult to resolve, it's probably worth thinking about.
_greim_ 12y ago
First first world problems.
p_eter_p 12y ago
John Scalzi's essay "Being Poor" is a really good read along these same lines. http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/
lxe 12y ago
I came to the U.S. from Eastern Europe when I was 13. My father was an engineer, and the rather humble entry-level salary was just enough to support our family of 4. My parents chose to settle in a "middle-class" suburban area with a great school district, which immediately placed us at the relatively lowest "class" in the area. Besides the obvious language barrier being a massive separator for some time, there were also plenty of instances where "class" came into play. We couldn't afford to purchase airfare, or to eat out for a while. I felt jealous, or angry at people who did not immediately understand that I won't receive cash from grandparents for christmas, or that I won't be able to get the latest toys and electronics. Even though it was very hard at first, but I didn't crave community support or entitlement based on my class or language. I didn't want special treatment, because I knew that that would just alienate me even more. I wanted acceptance, just like everyone else who is "different", but instead of attempting to change people around me to tailor to my needs or feelings, I guided my own attitude and expectations to accept certain things as they are. I managed my own social anxiety and didn't expect anyone to tailor to it. I cultivated my own belonging naturally, without reliance on programs or groups that attempt to do it artificially. I even refused to take ESL class for a very long time, fearing that that would socially single me out. I soon started to socialize and became friends with people of all "classes," and I never attempted to place myself in a group based on financial privilege -- I looked for more important qualities in my friends. Even when I got jealous or angry at someone's privilege, I understood that it is OK for them to be more fortunate, and that I shouldn't expect others to walk in my shoes. I assumed most people, even those that can never fully understand my situation, are good -- and expected nothing from them. After all, my goal was to achieve what they have, and I expected myself to someday enjoy the same privileges.
paltman 12y ago
I attended an Ivy (Penn). Most of my friends were far from wealthy. Many from what most in the US would consider poor backgrounds. It's hard for me to speak on their behalf here, but it's quite obvious seeing them now how radically their lives have changed. Here is a recent story that was fairly typical in my experience : http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2423782-left-parentless-and-homeless-harvard-stars-amazing-journey-may-lead-to-the-nfl http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2423782-left-parentless-a... It seems that there are those who pursue greatness and success and use their challenges and circumstances as motivation to do better and those that see themselves as handicapped and disadvantaged. Are there pompous kids? Sure. But I believe that exists anywhere and quite frankly, I felt that those kids were the ones who were missing out. Missing out on relationships with people who were not caught up on the superficial, either because they couldn't afford to be, or didn't care. Anyway, just my perspective, FWIW.
eastofeast 12y ago
Great article. That story struck a chord with me. Some changes to the settings. Replace an American Ivy league with an elite IIT in India. It was rare to find a first generation engineering student who came from a humble background. My peers were fairly affluent, upper-middle class or middle class at the least. Enjoyment was proportional to thickness of their wallet. They didn't do anything abnormal or flashy. But it was hard in so many ways. After all how do you justify skipping their fun events, trips and parties? I wanted to write some more. But don't feel like reliving that past. So making an abrupt end.
gaius 12y ago
now a junior sociology major This surprised me - I expected someone in this situation to pursue a vocational subject like engineering or medicine.

128 points by tokenadult 12y ago

This resonated with me - a poor farm kid from Iowa going to Stanford. I had my student loan plus zilch. Other students were off to Hawaii for vacation. Me, I had to bum a place to stay over breaks when the dorms were closed. I never asked questions; never used any tutors or talked to a professor; never studied in groups. It was a lonely life.

impendia 12y ago
> I never asked questions; never used any tutors or talked to a professor; I am a professor (albeit at a non-elite university). How do I persuade students such as yourself to ask questions, to use tutors, to show up to office hours, and to talk to me?
- deleted 12y ago
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- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Hard. I would have evaded your attempts to talk to me. Anything to avoid standing out from the rest. Maybe if everyone had a regular TA one-on-one or something? So they could identify, in private, who needed help and get that scheduled.
- dzdt 12y ago
  Next time you return a graded paper to them, write a note asking them to come to your next office hour or make a separate appointment to see you.
- HarryHirsch 12y ago
  25 years ago, at my university, the first thing in the first lecture the professor said was to form study groups. Those who didn't would feel the loneliness and pressure too overwhelming and would drop out. This was over on the old continent, not in America. This is asking the students to show initiative, I don't know how well that would work with contemporary American kids.
- EliRivers 12y ago
  Make it explicit. Stand at the front, where you usually do (I presume), and say in a big loud voice that you are aware that many of the students in front of you are used to doing everything themselves, without help and without asking for help. And that this does not carry over and here the rules are different and they are now expected to ask questions and seek to discuss, even if they already understand, because an academic tutorial is not just extra lecture time, but a socratic expansion of understanding that every - EVERY - student benefits from, and leaves knowing more than they did when they went in. You might (will) have to say it more than once, and very explicitly, because they are used to hearing well-meaning similar statements that they have learned to ignore. But just say it, explicitly. They're not stupid; just conditioned. Breaking through that conditioning is hard, so hard. The rich kids see your office-hours as a right (and, as I expect you know, see extensions on deadlines and arguing their grades up and being entitled to second chances as a right), the poor kids don't really believe they exist. Breaking that conditioning is possible, so long as you can see it to hit it.
- camikazeg 12y ago
  When I was in college I didn't even know what that conversation would sound like. I knew that I was supposed to go to office hours and start a relationship with my professors, but I pictured it as me standing in their doorway, not knowing what to say.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    I recall that! I (once) went to the Engineering building during office hours, lurked in the hallway, peeked in his door. He was grading papers. So I didn't bother him and left. And that was it for me visiting during office hours.
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  If a student is struggling and does not use the available resources for catching up with the rest of the class, it may be for any of several reasons: - Asking for help is a display of weakness, and that student has been conditioned to conceal his or her weaknesses. - The student has feelings of inferiority that lead him or her to assume that they do not deserve additional assistance. - The student has given his or her last pennies to the bursar and the bookseller, is literally living in a van and gleaning the trash to meet survival needs, and is avoiding peers and professors to conceal this lifestyle. - The student has a job, and the work schedule interferes with your office hours. You don't pay them to show up, so you lose the conflict. - The student is simply unaware that such resources are available in general, or available to him or her, specifically. - The student has adopted compensation strategies to deal with an environment unsupportive of their goals. Being invisible and anonymous may be one of them. Wearing a "mask personality" in public may be another. - The student is conditioned to believe that no one offers help without expecting something in return. In some cases, accepting help is actually dangerous. (Remember how I helped you out with your rent? Good. Hide this gun for me. You owe me.) Just use your position of perceived authority, and order them to show up. If you teach an intro-level class, draw lots, and assign every one of your students to visit you during your office hours in a specific, scheduled, 10-minute window prior to midterms. This is where you actually teach the student how to interact with professors outside the classroom. With each student, talk a little about your class, and a little about anything else. Make it a pass-fail item on the syllabus. Show up? Get some free course credit. Don't show? 0 points. (If you really kick ass at this, you can play "friend matchmaker" and try to coerce your students into befriending and helping each other.) Remember, there are no classes in most public high schools on how to "do college". Those kids are learning it as they go.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    Another reason: the student grew up in a rural community, and has rarely dealt with anyone they don't know and aren't related to, so are congenitally incapable of approaching a professor unintroduced.
- honestcoyote 12y ago
  One thing that helped me was the professor emphasizing email and the class forums on the crappy uni CMS. I know you'd probably prefer students showing up in person, but for people like me, email ensured I would stay in communication with the professor outside of class. I would feel like I was wasting the prof's time if I went to her office with a dumb question, but didn't feel the same pressure if I emailed the question. I ended up having extended conversations with the majority of my professors this way, and ultimately built relationships which made me feel comfortable about dropping in during office hours.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
re_todd 12y ago
> Other students were off to Hawaii for vacation. Me, I had to bum a place to stay over breaks when the dorms were closed. So true. Having attended a few colleges in California, I got tired of everyone else going to their parent's cabin over break in Tahoe, Mammoth, or Big Bear. And the dorms would close for a week or two, so I couldn't concentrate fully on my finals while I worried about where I'd stay and not have to sleep a few nights in a park. > never used any tutors or talked to a professor I had a hard time talking to my professor, and I noticed others from blue-color backgrounds have difficulty as well. Upper middle-class kids never seemed to have a problem talking to their professors, which seemed to give them a significant advantage.

lordnacho 12y ago

I would caution against too much class consciousness. My parents came to the west in a boat, much like the ones that are sinking every day in the med. They scraped together a living and tuition fees running Chinese food joints. When I arrived in Oxford, I did realise there were some interesting characters around. One guy with a posh accent stuck waved his chequebook outside his room during a tuition fee demonstration, offering to pay for everyone's tuition if he could just be allowed some peace. There are dudes walking the street in top hats. There are kids with sports cars. But why should you feel alienated from them? You can be friends with the ones who want to be. They are just as curious about you. Some of them actually feel a bit guilty about having ridden into a top uni on their fathers' coattails. There's also people who've had it worse than you. One friend actually fled from shelling, and was lucky to miss a boat that got sunk by helicopters. When you meet people, start with what you have in common. You're all young, and academically gifted. You're in the same place, you speak the same language.

xxxyy 12y ago
I'm from east Europe, so the problem could not concern me as it has been written, as nobody here really flashes their money around like a clown. But I remember the feeling of being excluded as a student not coming from a top notch high school. The majority of the other people had nice groups of friends from day zero. But guess what - I graduated with a really good diploma, easily landed a job at a major tech company, and most of these people are now my friends or colleagues. What matters in the end is your results, and your results only.
cperciva 12y ago
When I arrived in Oxford, I did realise there were some interesting characters around. One guy with a posh accent stuck waved his chequebook outside his room during a tuition fee demonstration, offering to pay for everyone's tuition if he could just be allowed some peace. There are dudes walking the street in top hats. There are kids with sports cars. When were you in Oxford? In my day I never saw any top hats, barring the occasional actor; and even the richest kids didn't have cars, because (a) there was nowhere to park them, and (b) you could walk faster than you could drive anywhere.

kelukelugames 12y ago

I'm happy this is here. Anytime affirmative action, race issues, etc is discussed, someone will always say "it's a class issue! What about poor white people?" Well, here's an article about that.

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- kelukelugames 12y ago
  Don't need to be aggressive. I think everyone has their struggles, whether it be gender, race, or class based. I just like learning from other people's perspectives.

dba7dba 12y ago

I was first from my family (poor) to attend a well known PUBLIC university in US. Like top 5 in US or world, in name recognition. I did not feel like I fit in. Many of the kids at this public university just did not get into one of the ivys but definitely middle/upper-middle class. Many kids in the school that came from poor families often went to a public high school where it was easier to get good enough grades to get into the university. Once they got in though, they were just not prepared for the rigorous competition to get good grades.

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kelukelugames 12y ago
I grew up in Cupertino and went to UC Berkeley. I came from a well off family but I had to pay for school. I met a lot of the "work study" students while washing dishes in the cafeteria during my first semester. Wearing an uniform and a hairnet to serve fellow students doesn't give an 18 year old the best self esteem. On the flip side, rich kids like my sister shadows their cousin during surgery, winter-breaks in Dubai, and studies abroad in France. It's a different life. Assuming everything is the same, money still gives a stupid amount of advantages.
colechristensen 12y ago
One always has to separate what is best for you, what gets the best rating in an opinion poll, and the actual positive qualities of an institution.
pbrb 12y ago
UoC? I went there for grad school, have a well paying job, and am from what I would call an upper middle class background... I didn't feel like I fit in. My peers were mostly from very wealthy families, a large majority of them treating the degree like a check mark on a resume to complement their other masters degrees.
barry-cotter 12y ago
There are no public universities in the top 5 in the US. The top three are Harvard, Yale and Princeton. Stanford is basically comparable. The fifth spot goes to either MIT or University of Chicago, both also private. That was pulled out of my ass but I just looked up the USNWR rankings and Berekeley is 20, and is the first public university on the list. The universities I mentioned form 6 of the top 7, along with Columbia.

protomyth 12y ago

"Disadvantaged students are accustomed to doing everything on their own because they rarely have parents educated enough to help them with things like homework or college applications, so they may be less likely to go to a writing center or ask a professor for extra help." The author missed the much larger problem in this statement. The school system these students are from are often poor with incompetent staff[1]. The competent staff are mostly dealing with students with problems and leaving the bright students to look after themselves. Resource allocation is a harsh mistress. 1) as an example, $2,000 a year (1988 USD) down the tube because a school official couldn't be bothered to mail a letter.

stegosaurus 12y ago

I attended an elite UK university having had a poor upbringing. This article reads painfully to me. I don't have the words to describe why, but I can try. The closest I can come is to say that this idea of inclusiveness is terminally broken. It's a sort of bandage over a huge chasm of differences. For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Change the accent, the clothes, the pop culture references, the 'back home...' stories. Avoid the discussions about parents. The list goes on. My transition into adulthood at present is essentially a game of throwing away my connections to that past. Not intentionally, but because living a double life is just too difficult. Visiting my hometown I feel like more of a tourist each time. Money is a huge divider, the gulf between the working class and middle classes in this regard is enormous. I am hardwired to assume that people cannot afford anything. My basic instinct is to design activities that are free. Wealthier people do not always appreciate this. They might want to go and do something more expensive - and why not? They can. Friendship groups. I could waffle on seemingly forever but words can't really express how odd I find all of this. Different species...

kelukelugames 12y ago
> For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Yes! Thank you for using the perfect word for how I feel. I'm sure rich people have "rich people baggage" but I believe they are either a) not a deal blocker or b) mitigated by their advantages. Edit: I have a few 1% friends. As far as I can tell, rich people baggage is usually complaining about money.
- taurath 12y ago
  Rich people baggage comes out whenever they don't have full control of a situation.
dbbolton 12y ago
>For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Change the accent, the clothes, the pop culture references, the 'back home...' stories. Avoid the discussions about parents. The list goes on. This sounds like a perfect summary of Dick Whitman's transition into Don Draper.

nutate 12y ago

I can answer this, just wrote an answer then deleted it. Bottom line: If you are poor and can figure out this loophole, just do it. On the balance I'm very, very glad I did.

iaw 12y ago

The most logistically frustrating part of the ordeal: "Dining halls at some schools, for example, close for spring break, though some students can’t afford to leave campus."

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Even during the semester, they didn't serve on Sunday. Presumably because you were all out with friends, eating at a pub or whatever. I just didn't eat on Sunday night.
- iaw 12y ago
  Wow, we at least had 7 day service during the semester.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    My buddy was an expert at finding all-you-can-eat buffet service. Couldn't afford the food service. That buffet was his meal for the day.
- cperciva 12y ago
  Huh, I had completely forgotten about that. I had the same experience in Oxford -- my college served breakfast/lunch/dinner 6 days a week, but on Sunday there was just a brunch, and most weeks I ended up not eating dinner on Sunday.
  - lordnacho 12y ago
    Which college were you at? We had one day a week without food at Corpus, and I just found a couple of friends to cook with.
    - cperciva 12y ago
      Wadham.
- 12y ago

ChuckMcM 12y ago

I don't think this is limited to schools. All through life you will find that there are people with more, or fewer, resources than you have and interactions may be adversely affected by that. The example of going out to dinner and then catching a movie is a good one. In a mid to large sized metropolitan area that is an expenditure of $40 - $100 (depending) and that can represent anywhere from .1% to 10% of a person's take home pay. So people gravitate to socializing with folks who have the same sort of budget for recreational expenses. And it can get even weirder when you're wildly different in available resources. Consider the following illustrative example Bob is a very high net worth individual, he owns an interest in a Gulfstream jet. While folks are hanging out they hear about a restaurant in Santa Fe (over 1,000 miles away) that is really great. Bob thinks it would be a great place to go for dinner. So he invites folks to dinner, when they show up everyone gets on the plane and flys to Santa Fe and eats at this restaurant which has been reserved (entirely) for this dinner. Bob is trying to be friendly and help everyone share the experience of a restaurant they were just talking about. Except that everyone on the plane that wasn't extremely wealthy felt really weird about the whole experience. (surreal might be better). So its easy to be friends with Bob, he's a nice guy, but it is hard to "hang out" with Bob as his idea of a reasonable idea of what to do next, can sometimes collide with your idea of reality. That goes all the way down to things like skiing (fun, but expensive to do for the day). To avoid that you need communities of people with similar resource levels, and yes this means that things like the 1st generation outreach program mentioned in the article will collect all of the 'poor people' together, but it gives them a social structure to start from. And if they mix with the the 'not quite so poor' people they can start to move through the variations in strata. Once they graduate they are very likely to be at least part of the "middle" and their kids the "upper middle".

kelukelugames 12y ago
My boss's boss's boss once tried to socialize with me by asking what kind of boat I owned.
- ChuckMcM 12y ago
  perfect example!

Crito 12y ago

I am curious whether anybody else has experienced this in professional settings. I make as much money as most of my peers at work, but fairly regularly I am made aware of the fact that my upbringing was less affluent than many of theirs. They have stories about exotic vacations they went on with their families, while my stories are about manual labor on farms. On some occasions somebody has made a crack at the expense of blue-collar workers, but I don't feel particularly far removed from that life.

georgefrick 12y ago
I struggle with this all the time, even with my wife. Spring break? You mean catch up on math / work extra hours week? Hey, I'm finally going to <insert location> next month! Oh, you've been there regularly since you were a kid? Then I suppose it would be boring. Oh, did I pronounce another word funny? Sorry, I only ever learned it from reading, nobody ever said it. But you can't say that shit out loud; you have to just grin and bear the embarrassment. I've learned to never ever bring up things like collecting cans/scrapping/etc.
_delirium 12y ago
I've definitely noticed that, though I think it varies by region and industry quite a bit. Engineering feels to me a little more "blue-collar" than the tech industry in its attitudes, even though engineers often don't make any less money. Some may have to do with where people come from, e.g. in large parts of engineering, the big "feeder schools" are good but not "elite" public schools: places like Purdue, Texas A&M, and Ohio State. People who at least sometimes work on-site in plants might also have more direct contact with blue-collar workers and feel more part of the same enterprise, though that is a minority of engineers. In terms of region, SF, LA, and NYC are just about the worst for being full of "moneyed family" type attitudes. I lived some years in Indiana and it was far more tolerable on that front, despite what you might expect from the respective regions' politics.
- codva 12y ago
  Purdue graduate here, and I think that's a fair assessment. The rich kids seemed to be Management majors. They just needed a degree so that they could take over Daddy's company when he retired in a few years.

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newpattern 12y ago

I attended Stanford business school on scholarship. I was brought up in a middle class household, not poor. I couldn't fit in with the rich kids, many of whom were sons/daughters of millionaire/billionaires, the bankers and the consultants. All the students were obsessed with networking and as a "lowly" engineer pursuing an MBA, my classmates never considered me worth getting to know. I tried but couldn't really forge any meaningful friendships.I felt like an outsider all the time. This was in sharp contrast to my experience in engineering school in India, where the only thing that mattered was how smart you are, irrespective of who your parents are.

kelukelugames 12y ago
Want to hob nob with GSB students? Should have gone to Stanfurd for engineering. "Hey you are a programmer? Want to make an app for me?"
- newpattern 12y ago
  Haha, yes. Met a lot of those."I can't code but I have lots of ideas."
hkmurakami 12y ago
Business school is another beast entirely, in my experience. I studied engineering at an Ivy League school and sure I didn't fit in with the main finance/consulting/billionaire's child crowd, but there was a sizeable minority of peers pursuing careers in academia, medicine, etc. that I bonded with. In business school, the ratio of mainstream to sidestream was skewed so badly towards the mainstream that it was difficult to even keep my head above water amidst the torrent of "networkers" like you said.

jhundal 12y ago

Couple of thoughts: - Even if you provide resources to students for finding jobs/internships, they don't come with the same connections or experience as their wealthier peers so I'm wondering how much these help. For example, technology companies are typically going to hire those computer science students with the most programming experience, outside of a few small programs run by the larger companies (Google, Microsoft, Facebook) specifically for disadvantaged students. - Often you see stats on what percentage of students attending a university are low income (by some proxy like Pell grants), and what percentage of them graduate, but I have yet to see stats on career fields and income for these students. As someone from a blue collar middle class background getting an engineering degree I could count on one hand the number of students I met with backgrounds similar to mine (and this is at a fairly large school). I would expect these sorts of stats aren't very flattering to schools, but would love to see the numbers if they exist.

letitgo12345 12y ago

Hmm I went to an Ivy League school. Maybe it was the company I hung out with but there was never really any talk of how rich anyone's background was (in fact it was kind of taboo) -- the same way no one ever talked about what their SAT scores were. It seemed petty. There were several well off kids in my social circle (though not mega rich or anything) but there wasn't really any flaunting of wealth. In fact, many of the well off people I knew tried to save more money than some less well off people! There were also some poor kids around who people knew about but they were never really looked down upon.

RockyMcNuts 12y ago
+1 granted it was in the 80s but off the top of my head 40% on major financial aid and work-study, 40% upper middle class, maybe 20% were playing the wealth card and gentle mockery would usually keep'em in line. Not sure if times have changed that much or class consciousness is just a perennial trope for whinging.
taurath 12y ago
Its more about what you do on spring break, on weekends, when not in class, that sort of thing. Those who can afford expensive outings naturally drift away from those who can't.

cperciva 12y ago

This very much reminds me of my time in Oxford. I was there on a Commonwealth scholarship (referred to by many at the time as "Rhodes light") which paid for my tuition plus about £550/month of living expenses; this was enough to keep me alive, but it certainly wasn't generous. My friends were very obviously split into two groups -- poorer students from state schools who were first-generation Oxbridge attendees, and rich students from public (UK) or private (US) schools whose parents had been at Oxbridge or Ivy universities. Academically, I fit in well with the wealthier crowd -- my parents both have Oxford degrees and doctorates, and I was there on an academic scholarship -- but financially I was far closer to the first-generation students. On one memorable occasion I was invited to join a group for a weekend skiing in the Alps, and declined when I realized that it would cost me more than my rent for the month; and while all of my American friends flew home between terms (and often for long weekends in the middle of term), I stayed in Oxford over Christmas and Easter because the rent was cheaper than even the lowest-price plane tickets. But I can't fault Oxford for any of this: Indeed, the reason these socioeconomic strata were so obvious is precisely because they're doing a good job of bringing in students from a wide range of backgrounds. I never saw the University of my College doing anything which stigmatized or isolated students based on their background; the stratification was entirely due to the differences students brought to the university in how they saw the world and their places in it.

learnstats2 12y ago
>but financially I was far closer to the first-generation students I suggest you have understated your relative wealth. UK students at Oxford today are entitled to £478/month living expense (in 2015 money), which they get mostly as a student loan, to be repaid. Taking into account inflation, or looking at the equivalent scholarship today, I believe you were almost twice as well-off as the typical student from a poorer background. [I don't doubt there were students twice as rich again, but I question the suggestion that you weren't treated generously in this context]
- cperciva 12y ago
  You may be somewhat under-stating your relative wealth. I was better off than most of the first-generation students, but not dramatically so. Students today are entitled to £478/month living expense (in 2015 money), which they get mostly as a student loan. The Oxford University website says that students typically spend between £951 and £1,405 per month on living expenses. When I arrived in Oxford (in 2001) I was told that students typically spent around £650/month (the scholarship administrator was very apologetic about the value of the living allowance). I haven't been in the UK for over a decade, so I'm not familiar with the state of student financial aid, but from what you've said I suspect that either the government bursaries/loans have gotten smaller or they were being supplemented by significant University and College awards.

enupten 12y ago

It has nothing to do with Ivies or the US; it's humanity.

alexashka 12y ago

I think the article misses the point: the problem with poor people is they don't have money. I'd know, I grew up poor. That's the problem, and ONLY problem. 'We can do more to be supportive' - JUST GIVE THEM MONEY. Oh they don't have to pay tuition, that's great. Do they have to pay rent and eat? Do they need to buy textbooks and clothes? Give them money, end of story. All this talk of self-esteem issues - please. Every 12-30 year old has self-esteem issues or ego-maniacal issues, time fixes all that. Just let them study and learn to fit in instead of washing dishes.

smeyer 12y ago
At the top ivy league schools, they do in fact also pay for rent, food, and even clothes (Harvard has a fund to pay for winter coats for students on certain levels of financial aid.) Harvard also has a fund to pay for some school-sponsored social events (like formal dances) as well as certain types of travel. There is still a notable class difference and there are still issues of money around different types of activities and behaviors, but it's not like they just pay tuition and call it a day. (I mentioned Harvard specifically a few times because I went there and am familiar, but I believe the situation is the same at a couple of other top ivy league schools.)
- alexashka 12y ago
  If this is truly the case - I don't understand the notion of working part-time and studying at a top school. What is that all about? If it is as you say it is - then this is just folks boo-hooing about the challenges of... well... being in challenging situations. You are going to be put in those when it comes to your health, relationships and likely money, sooner or later. Everyone goes through that at some point in time - most come out alive :)
  - smeyer 12y ago
    I think it's a bit unreasonable to describe it all as just "boo-hooing". Obviously everyone has challenges, but that doesn't mean that it isn't worth considering how these could be mitigated. There is a real problem of social stratification and isolation that affects many students at these top schools in a way that substantially impacts their experiences, and while it may be difficult to resolve, it's probably worth thinking about.

_greim_ 12y ago

First first world problems.

p_eter_p 12y ago

John Scalzi's essay "Being Poor" is a really good read along these same lines. http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/

lxe 12y ago

I came to the U.S. from Eastern Europe when I was 13. My father was an engineer, and the rather humble entry-level salary was just enough to support our family of 4. My parents chose to settle in a "middle-class" suburban area with a great school district, which immediately placed us at the relatively lowest "class" in the area. Besides the obvious language barrier being a massive separator for some time, there were also plenty of instances where "class" came into play. We couldn't afford to purchase airfare, or to eat out for a while. I felt jealous, or angry at people who did not immediately understand that I won't receive cash from grandparents for christmas, or that I won't be able to get the latest toys and electronics. Even though it was very hard at first, but I didn't crave community support or entitlement based on my class or language. I didn't want special treatment, because I knew that that would just alienate me even more. I wanted acceptance, just like everyone else who is "different", but instead of attempting to change people around me to tailor to my needs or feelings, I guided my own attitude and expectations to accept certain things as they are. I managed my own social anxiety and didn't expect anyone to tailor to it. I cultivated my own belonging naturally, without reliance on programs or groups that attempt to do it artificially. I even refused to take ESL class for a very long time, fearing that that would socially single me out. I soon started to socialize and became friends with people of all "classes," and I never attempted to place myself in a group based on financial privilege -- I looked for more important qualities in my friends. Even when I got jealous or angry at someone's privilege, I understood that it is OK for them to be more fortunate, and that I shouldn't expect others to walk in my shoes. I assumed most people, even those that can never fully understand my situation, are good -- and expected nothing from them. After all, my goal was to achieve what they have, and I expected myself to someday enjoy the same privileges.

paltman 12y ago

I attended an Ivy (Penn). Most of my friends were far from wealthy. Many from what most in the US would consider poor backgrounds. It's hard for me to speak on their behalf here, but it's quite obvious seeing them now how radically their lives have changed. Here is a recent story that was fairly typical in my experience : http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2423782-left-parentless-and-homeless-harvard-stars-amazing-journey-may-lead-to-the-nfl http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2423782-left-parentless-a... It seems that there are those who pursue greatness and success and use their challenges and circumstances as motivation to do better and those that see themselves as handicapped and disadvantaged. Are there pompous kids? Sure. But I believe that exists anywhere and quite frankly, I felt that those kids were the ones who were missing out. Missing out on relationships with people who were not caught up on the superficial, either because they couldn't afford to be, or didn't care. Anyway, just my perspective, FWIW.

eastofeast 12y ago

Great article. That story struck a chord with me. Some changes to the settings. Replace an American Ivy league with an elite IIT in India. It was rare to find a first generation engineering student who came from a humble background. My peers were fairly affluent, upper-middle class or middle class at the least. Enjoyment was proportional to thickness of their wallet. They didn't do anything abnormal or flashy. But it was hard in so many ways. After all how do you justify skipping their fun events, trips and parties? I wanted to write some more. But don't feel like reliving that past. So making an abrupt end.

gaius 12y ago

now a junior sociology major This surprised me - I expected someone in this situation to pursue a vocational subject like engineering or medicine.