5 ms·

I think this has been a discussion going on for a long time now. What I believe to be true is it really depends on the person. If you're someone who is self-con

by dillon 11y ago

I think this has been a discussion going on for a long time now. What I believe to be true is it really depends on the person. If you're someone who is self-conscious then yes you'll feel like everyone is judging you all the time. If you have the ability to stay focused on your work without being around colleagues then you should be allowed to work from home. I've worked in open offices, offices with high partitions and from home. When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games? When I work in a partition and I need to talk to another engineer face-to-face I can't just glance over to see if they are available. Open offices lets me be around my colleagues and inspires me to focus on my work and get access to help promptly when I need it. I don't give a damn if they see me in a snuggie or sleeping under my desk. I believe the real problem is the lack of choices. You should be able to choose the kind of environment you want to work in and not feel like you're forced in a situation you don't like. I think it's wrong to say "open offices are destroying the workplace".

stevesearer 11y ago
Agreed. I like the concept of Activity Based Working. http://space.ucsf.edu/activity-based-workplace http://space.ucsf.edu/activity-based-workplace
- amelius 11y ago
  I think I'd prefer to be in the focus room almost all day :)
fsloth 11y ago
"Open offices lets me be around my colleagues and inspires me to focus on my work and get access to help promptly when I need it. " Actually any co-location scheme allows this, walls or no walls. It's a matter of culture, not of vertical dividers. But I concur, it's a bit over the top to say that "everyone" hates open offices since clearly some people don't. Personally, to me it feels like a quarter suffers, of which there is a vocal minority, half don't give a damn and quarter thinks it's ok. Personally I think open office is the worst to happen to the modern workplace. I like being around my team but I don't enjoy being consciously aware of the doings of the four other teams who share the space I'm in. Team rooms. Those are golden. Better yet, rooms of 2-3 persons.
- stevesearer 11y ago
  I run an office design website and I hardly ever see team rooms, which is very surprising and they seem like a good balance between collaborative space and privacy. One of the offices I like to show as an example is Ubiquiti Networks, particularly images 3 and 4 (pardon the link to my own website): http://officesnapshots.com/2014/03/12/ubiquiti-networks-san-jose-engineering-offices/ http://officesnapshots.com/2014/03/12/ubiquiti-networks-san-...
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - fsloth 11y ago
    That huge whole wall whiteboard in the teamroom is awesome.
    - stevesearer 11y ago
      If you navigate to the photos section, there is a collection of photos 'brainstorm rooms' displaying a variety of ways those are installed. One important thing ton consider is not wasting $$$ on coating the walls above about 7' or below 3' as it is basically unusable without those funny library ladders.
  - makeitsuckless 11y ago
    Those glass walls give me nightmares. I currently work for a company where once in a while I have to spend a whole day in an office with glass walls everywhere. By the end of the day I just want to lock myself in the bathroom, the feeling of constantly being on view and constantly seeing movement drives me completely nuts.
    - stevesearer 11y ago
      Glass walls are mostly used to ensure natural light is able to get into the innermost parts of the building. But your nightmare is my joy. This diversity in humans is one of the things which makes creating the idea work environment for all so difficult.
gnaritas 11y ago
> When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games? Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy?
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  Busywork shouldn't be the goal. Busywork is what is given to children when the adults don't want to deal.
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    You're projecting, no one said anything about busy-work. Busy does not mean doing unproductive work. Busy != busy-work.
    - Apocryphon 11y ago
      But it's inevitable that any job will involve some amount of busy-work. Such is the nature of work. Busy-work isn't unproductive work- at least, not to the organization. Busy-work is work that the organization needs to have done, but the individual does not find interesting or satisfying to do. Any company is going to require busy-work.
      - gnaritas 11y ago
        > Busy-work isn't unproductive work That's exactly what it is. > Busy-work is work that the organization needs to have done, but the individual does not find interesting or satisfying to do. That is not what the term means. Busy work: work that keeps a person busy but has little value in itself. What you're describing is simply boring work. If the work is useful, it is by definition not busy work.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      Projecting? Not-busy != not-productive
- magicalist 11y ago
drwolf 11y ago
Very true. There are both positives and negatives. What we really need is choice. Sometimes I want to code in peace, some times I want to stand and hear what everyone is doing.
brandon 11y ago
I think that the majority of unhappy open-office employees are more upset with distractions than with the lack of privacy. The widespread application of headphones to "solve" this problem is silly. It does nothing to screen out the visual distraction of working with 40 other people in your sightline, and it cuts you off from meaningful discussions with your direct peers. I've been happiest in spaces where workgroups of 6-8 people were in large-ish shared offices that broke up sightlines and isolated noise. Doors that close, folks (partially frosted glass or not).
jfoutz 11y ago
I think you're much more self aware about how you solve problems than i am. Most problems are just exploring a configuration space. Stuff like using a hashtable instead of a set, because there's extra associated information, or traversing a datastructure in a different order. Perhaps complex, but ultimately understandable changes. Sometimes though, the impossible happens. Maybe a race condition or something. In those cases i find myself questioning my mental model, which is good. It leads me compare what i think is happening to what is actually happening. If i don't find that mismatch, my mind sort of tenses up. Those terrible problems lead me to question my understanding of reality and my self worth. Some things are just hard. I really do just check out and play video games for a while. Something in my mind relaxes, my subconscious chews on the problem for a while. Sometimes i have to sleep before I feel like i can continue. When i'm working near my limits, i get weird. I know other poeple who just grit their teeth and go on. I've tried that, but it feels like the road to burnout for me. I know others deal with that well. Talking sometimes helps, but because my understanding is flawed, my explanation has the same flaws. Some people are good at helping identify the false belief, but usually I still have to let that realization tumble around in my mind for a while before i feel comfortable enough to continue.
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  That is part of my problem. When I get into those modes I want to pace and talk to myself as I go through the problem. Sharing space really puts a crimp in that.
sheepmullet 11y ago
"When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games?" It sounds like the low grade anxiety and stress of an open office actually helps keep you on track. Frequent deadlines is a similar kind of pressure that some people excel with. I'm the same when I get plenty of downtime at work. If I can take a long lunch break and follow it up by going to the gym and nobody at work minds because I am overall very productive then the low grade stress etc actually helps me focus.
sheepmullet 11y ago
"I think it's wrong to say "open offices are destroying the workplace"." Id estimate maybe 25% of open office workers are seriously negatively impacted by an open office. To put that in perspective if 25% of workers at a company were subject to bullying or sexual harassment we would certainly label the work environment extremely toxic... Even if another 25% were happy and productive in it.

by dillon 11y ago

stevesearer 11y ago

Agreed. I like the concept of Activity Based Working. http://space.ucsf.edu/activity-based-workplace http://space.ucsf.edu/activity-based-workplace

amelius 11y ago
I think I'd prefer to be in the focus room almost all day :)

fsloth 11y ago

"Open offices lets me be around my colleagues and inspires me to focus on my work and get access to help promptly when I need it. " Actually any co-location scheme allows this, walls or no walls. It's a matter of culture, not of vertical dividers. But I concur, it's a bit over the top to say that "everyone" hates open offices since clearly some people don't. Personally, to me it feels like a quarter suffers, of which there is a vocal minority, half don't give a damn and quarter thinks it's ok. Personally I think open office is the worst to happen to the modern workplace. I like being around my team but I don't enjoy being consciously aware of the doings of the four other teams who share the space I'm in. Team rooms. Those are golden. Better yet, rooms of 2-3 persons.

stevesearer 11y ago
I run an office design website and I hardly ever see team rooms, which is very surprising and they seem like a good balance between collaborative space and privacy. One of the offices I like to show as an example is Ubiquiti Networks, particularly images 3 and 4 (pardon the link to my own website): http://officesnapshots.com/2014/03/12/ubiquiti-networks-san-jose-engineering-offices/ http://officesnapshots.com/2014/03/12/ubiquiti-networks-san-...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- fsloth 11y ago
  That huge whole wall whiteboard in the teamroom is awesome.
  - stevesearer 11y ago
    If you navigate to the photos section, there is a collection of photos 'brainstorm rooms' displaying a variety of ways those are installed. One important thing ton consider is not wasting $$$ on coating the walls above about 7' or below 3' as it is basically unusable without those funny library ladders.
- makeitsuckless 11y ago
  Those glass walls give me nightmares. I currently work for a company where once in a while I have to spend a whole day in an office with glass walls everywhere. By the end of the day I just want to lock myself in the bathroom, the feeling of constantly being on view and constantly seeing movement drives me completely nuts.
  - stevesearer 11y ago
    Glass walls are mostly used to ensure natural light is able to get into the innermost parts of the building. But your nightmare is my joy. This diversity in humans is one of the things which makes creating the idea work environment for all so difficult.

gnaritas 11y ago

> When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games? Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy?

jsprogrammer 11y ago
Busywork shouldn't be the goal. Busywork is what is given to children when the adults don't want to deal.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  You're projecting, no one said anything about busy-work. Busy does not mean doing unproductive work. Busy != busy-work.
  - Apocryphon 11y ago
    But it's inevitable that any job will involve some amount of busy-work. Such is the nature of work. Busy-work isn't unproductive work- at least, not to the organization. Busy-work is work that the organization needs to have done, but the individual does not find interesting or satisfying to do. Any company is going to require busy-work.
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      > Busy-work isn't unproductive work That's exactly what it is. > Busy-work is work that the organization needs to have done, but the individual does not find interesting or satisfying to do. That is not what the term means. Busy work: work that keeps a person busy but has little value in itself. What you're describing is simply boring work. If the work is useful, it is by definition not busy work.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    Projecting? Not-busy != not-productive
magicalist 11y ago

drwolf 11y ago

Very true. There are both positives and negatives. What we really need is choice. Sometimes I want to code in peace, some times I want to stand and hear what everyone is doing.

brandon 11y ago

I think that the majority of unhappy open-office employees are more upset with distractions than with the lack of privacy. The widespread application of headphones to "solve" this problem is silly. It does nothing to screen out the visual distraction of working with 40 other people in your sightline, and it cuts you off from meaningful discussions with your direct peers. I've been happiest in spaces where workgroups of 6-8 people were in large-ish shared offices that broke up sightlines and isolated noise. Doors that close, folks (partially frosted glass or not).

jfoutz 11y ago

I think you're much more self aware about how you solve problems than i am. Most problems are just exploring a configuration space. Stuff like using a hashtable instead of a set, because there's extra associated information, or traversing a datastructure in a different order. Perhaps complex, but ultimately understandable changes. Sometimes though, the impossible happens. Maybe a race condition or something. In those cases i find myself questioning my mental model, which is good. It leads me compare what i think is happening to what is actually happening. If i don't find that mismatch, my mind sort of tenses up. Those terrible problems lead me to question my understanding of reality and my self worth. Some things are just hard. I really do just check out and play video games for a while. Something in my mind relaxes, my subconscious chews on the problem for a while. Sometimes i have to sleep before I feel like i can continue. When i'm working near my limits, i get weird. I know other poeple who just grit their teeth and go on. I've tried that, but it feels like the road to burnout for me. I know others deal with that well. Talking sometimes helps, but because my understanding is flawed, my explanation has the same flaws. Some people are good at helping identify the false belief, but usually I still have to let that realization tumble around in my mind for a while before i feel comfortable enough to continue.

vonmoltke 11y ago
That is part of my problem. When I get into those modes I want to pace and talk to myself as I go through the problem. Sharing space really puts a crimp in that.

sheepmullet 11y ago

"When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games?" It sounds like the low grade anxiety and stress of an open office actually helps keep you on track. Frequent deadlines is a similar kind of pressure that some people excel with. I'm the same when I get plenty of downtime at work. If I can take a long lunch break and follow it up by going to the gym and nobody at work minds because I am overall very productive then the low grade stress etc actually helps me focus.

sheepmullet 11y ago

"I think it's wrong to say "open offices are destroying the workplace"." Id estimate maybe 25% of open office workers are seriously negatively impacted by an open office. To put that in perspective if 25% of workers at a company were subject to bullying or sexual harassment we would certainly label the work environment extremely toxic... Even if another 25% were happy and productive in it.