9 ms·

Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

43 points by romefort 11y ago

fasteo 11y ago
>>> Investors in her health-technology start-up Running a health start-up and popping Aderalls like there is no tomorrow does not seem a good fit.
- jotm 11y ago
  Hopefully it's a health startup promoting the legalization of stimulants and enhancers :-)
  - eli_gottlieb 11y ago
    Legalize all you like: amphetamines are still bad for your heart and can engender quite the headache when they wear off.
    - jotm 11y ago
      Just like caffeine.
    - SCAQTony 11y ago
      That quote from Blade Runner: "The candle that burns twice as bright only lasts half as long..." Sparingly, it seems like an important drug as a last resort for ADDHD but for "enhancement purposes?" Summary: A new study conducted in rats [rats are not people] by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and McLean Hospital/Harvard Medical School suggests that the misdiagnosis of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) combined with prescription drug use in children may [emphasis on the word may] lead to a higher risk of developing depressive symptoms in adulthood. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041220013546.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041220013546.ht...
amelius 11y ago
And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! > Most users who were interviewed said they got pills by feigning symptoms of A.D.H.D., a disorder marked by severe impulsivity and inattention, to physicians who casually write prescriptions without proper evaluations. And thus these practices disturb statistics about the true prevalence of ADHD.
- xamuel 11y ago
  >And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! This raises interesting philosophical questions about work in general. If work is inherently valuable, isn't anything that enhances it a good thing (assume lack of side effects for simplicity)? Is it "unfair" if a doctor/scientist/programmer uses a product to be more productive? Very few of us are formally competitive athletes, and special rules apply to those of us who are. I think it's unfair that some people can afford secretaries, accountants, editors, private schools, etc., those seem much less fair than ADHD medicine. One of my childhood heroes, the great mathematician Paul Erdos, was a famous amphetamine user, does that mean the wonderful contributions he made to our understanding of the universe are "unfair"?
  - amelius 11y ago
    > I think it's unfair that some people can afford secretaries, accountants, editors, private schools, etc., those seem much less fair than ADHD medicine. Yes, but between two people who are otherwise equal (in status), the one using the drug has an unfair advantage. > One of my childhood heroes, the great mathematician Paul Erdos, was a famous amphetamine user, does that mean the wonderful contributions he made to our understanding of the universe are "unfair"? To his peers his actions may have been certainly unfair. The least he could have done was disclose in his publications that his results were obtained while using these drugs.
    - xamuel 11y ago
      >Yes, but between two people who are otherwise equal (in status), the one using the drug has an unfair advantage. Okay. Between two people who are otherwise equal (in drugs), the one with the more servants has an unfair advantage. >The least he could have done was disclose in his publications that his results were obtained while using these drugs Should the same go for caffeine?
solve 11y ago
Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your work requires steady output instead of rare bursts, it's questionable whether it even surpasses coffee because of these downsides.
- berntb 11y ago
  Check the wikipedia page about coffee health effects. The side effects seems to not be close to zero, but positive. (I hope the same will soon be said about my other misused "drug", the Dark Souls series of games. :-) I'll try the ADHD stuff when it becomes legal.)
- jotm 11y ago
  Ephedrine and dextroamphetamine are already better than coffee, in small dosages. Sadly, it's gonna be a long time before they're legal, if ever.
- ugexe 11y ago
  The tolerance/withdrawal drawbacks for adderall are nearly non existent if you don't abuse it and take weekends off. Sure, after the well known honeymoon phase of a few weeks it's not the superman pill you might have expected would last forever, but otherwise responsible use will keep you more productive. People with little will power or addictive personalities (which a third party can't possibly always know) aren't usually equipped to deal with such moderation, so instead we let the "gotta work 7 days a week!" grinders stigmatize an otherwise safe and useful medicine/tool. When used responsibly I can assure you it's more effective and has less side effects than caffeine IF you tolerate it well (not everyone can, just like not everyone can tolerate caffeine)
  - inmyunix 11y ago
    i recently quit adderall after 10 years and experienced Zero withdrawal.
josephagoss 11y ago
Interesting that there was no mention of Modafinil. I believe that one of the most "abused" drugs for "productivity" is currently Modafinil, far more powerful than Adderall and without all those side effects. Of course, long term side effects are unknown.
- jronald 11y ago
  I'd disagree with it being far more "powerful" than Adderall, having been prescribed both at one time or another. They're effects on me are quite different: Adderall - I seem to focus on anything I needed to without resistance, similar to how I would focus on something I enjoy. The side effects on me were (to me) extreme emotional instability, which was too off putting to use regularly - could not play well with others. Modafinil (and Adrafinil before that) - The concentration assistance is there for when I'm focused, but it doesn't seem to help me stay on topic - I'm still easily distracted. The upside is I can still play well with others, and if anything seem more energetic (I hit the gym every morning I use it). The reduced sleep effect is real, I went from an average of 6 hours a night to <4, and it feels like the regained time is still productive. I have no hard numbers around this, and not really sure how to build a baseline to compare to. I'd like to see how I react to both together, but hesitant given my poor reaction to Adderall. When I was younger I remember preferring Ritalin over Adderall. EDIT: Adding to the throwaway comment below, the long halflife of Modafinil is true, especially when trying to sleep. For me, after months of 3-4 days on a week, there seemed to be no long term issues with this, where days I had taken Modafinil I only slept 3-4 hours. I definitely had issues with alcohol and Modafinil, where at my weight (220lbs) I could normally drink 3-4 pints to reach 'buzzed' status, this seemed to happen at 1-2 pints. This trend stayed consistent - and proper 'drunk' came much quicker. This had the effect of limiting my drinking, to the point where I would switch to light beers and stop drinking after 1-2. This has been positive to me, but a bit concerning as I hadn't read of that effect before.
  - throwaway98031 11y ago
    > I'd like to see how I react to both together, but hesitant given my poor reaction to Adderall. When I was younger I remember preferring Ritalin over Adderall. I always advise against poly-pharmacy if possible. Particularly when dealing with powerful stimulants for which the mechanism of action isn't fully understood (Modafinil). Interestingly, Modafinil might somewhat antagonize the Adderall due to an interaction between their mechanisms of action. Modafinil's MOA is partially due to dopamine reuptake inhibition (similar to Ritalin), but Adderall relies largely on being taken in to the presynaptic terminals and forcing dopamine out. By inhibiting dopamine uptake, Modafinil can (theoretically) decrease the amount of Adderall taken in to the terminal as well as the amount of dopamine available in the terminal for release. We've seen this in a few studies where Modafinil can actually reduce the neurotoxic effects of Adderall, likely due to this antagonizing of Adderall's core MOA. The magnitude of this effect at therapeutic dosages is unknown, but it's possible and even likely that the combination would be distinctly different than what you might expect a combination of the two drugs to feel like. > EDIT: Adding to the throwaway comment below, the long halflife of Modafinil is true, especially when trying to sleep. For me, after months of 3-4 days on a week, there seemed to be no long term issues with this, where days I had taken Modafinil I only slept 3-4 hours. It's expected that your body would adapt somewhat to sleeping on the medication, but that doesn't mean that you were getting quality sleep. Humans are notoriously bad at judging sleep quality, for one, but more importantly here: You were taking a wakefulness-promoting agent, which would have covered any subjective feelings of poor sleep. My concerns with Modafinil stem more from potential long-term implications of interrupting sleep, particularly when the traditional signs of poor sleep (daily fatigue and sleepiness) are then obscured by the drug itself, leading to a false sense of restedness. However, we can begin to infer poor sleep quality by other, indirect markets, such as: > I definitely had issues with alcohol and Modafinil, where at my weight (220lbs) I could normally drink 3-4 pints to reach 'buzzed' status, this seemed to happen at 1-2 pints. This trend stayed consistent - and proper 'drunk' came much quicker. This had the effect of limiting my drinking, to the point where I would switch to light beers and stop drinking after 1-2. Getting subjectively incapacitated from a lower number of beers could, theoretically, be indicative of a subtle sleep-deprived state, for example. Again, much of this is just semi-educated conjecture, but given the importance of sleep to long-term health I'm wary of these stimulants with long half-lives.
zxcvcxz 11y ago
Off topic, but I was diagnosed with ADHD about 10 years ago, been taking methylphenidate ER ever since. Throughout the years I have had over ten different doctors at the same location and I informed each doctor that I was a marijuana user. Recently my latest doctor decided to drug test me, before asking any questions about my usage or even looking at my file he stated he would no longer prescribe me my medicine because I use marijuana and "those two don't interact well together". When I repeatedly asked him to back up his opinion with actual evidence (studies), he repeatedly refused. He would not even explain the reaction that marijuana had with ADHD medication. After less than three minutes I was asked to leave his office. No discussion about my condition was allowed. I'm aware that the doctors opinion is what goes and he has all the power, but I feel I've been wronged. I really need this medicine and it's probably does more harm to kick me off cold turkey without even looking at my file than to let me smoke marijuana with it, and I feel that his opinion is based more on politics than rigorous medical study. I have a feeling if I was an alcohol drinker he would have no problem. So it goes.
- jp555 11y ago
  That is strange. My doctor finds no problem with my cannabis consumption while taking methylphenidate. I don't find they interact in a negative way, however I find too much coffee + methylphenidate is very counter productive. The caffine stimulation seems to totally overwhelm the focused stimulation of the methylphenidate, and not in a good way.
- snarfy 11y ago
  > I'm aware that the doctors opinion is what goes and he has all the power, but I feel I've been wronged. He actually has little power. You can go to a different doctor. There are many people that abuse this fact, e.g. keep switching doctors until they find one that prescribes them painkillers, but in your case it sounds perfectly valid. You have ten other opinions that think it's perfectly fine to combine your meds.
  - zxcvcxz 11y ago
    The problem is that I go to a mental-health center and because of my financial situation they only charge me three dollars a visit. I'm going to look for other doctors, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to find another health center willing to work with poor people. We'll see..
gregpilling 11y ago
I have a prescription for Adderall, Modafinil and a have tried bunch of others. Adderall was prescribed for fibromyalgia related symptoms of brain fog and lack of memory, modafinil for chronic fatigue. Adderall aggravated the Renaud's syndrome that I have had for 5 years, to the point where the blood flow stopped and the fingers began to suffer from continuos lack of blood . See http://imgur.com/Djy6g2A http://imgur.com/Djy6g2A This has been a daily challenge for the last couple of months, and it has greatly impacted my ability to work. I have a hard time using my hands to do anything, even typing. I am now off Adderall (6 months), withdrawal was not too bad for me. I miss the Adderall, since it made me feel like my brain worked again. I felt like my old self, much sharper mentally - no focus change, still ADD as ever, but felt restored in the brain. I felt 25 again (45 now) and was able to work better, in the sense that 25 year old me was more energetic than 45 year old me. I tried Strattera for a few days, but found that has nasty side effects and also aggravated my hands. Modafinil I don't notice any other effect, other than I don't feel as tired all the time. I don't feel smarter, or better, only not exhausted. For me, there is no stimulant feeling with Modafinil, or ability/skills change, just an change in the tired all the time feeling. So, if you are going to use these drugs, pay attention to the side effects. I would recommend avoiding them unless you need them.
afarrell 11y ago
How does somebody tell if they actually have ADHD or they are just easily distracted? Isn't "Do they respond to ADHD medication?" our only test?
- throwaway98031 11y ago
  > Isn't "Do they respond to ADHD medication?" our only test? No, absolutely not. It's a common internet myth that response to ADHD medication is indicative of ADHD. In reality, nearly anyone who takes ADHD medication acutely will experience increased focus and productivity (again, acutely) due to the acute (pre-tolerance build-up) effects of the drugs. Additionally, new users experience a short-lived euphoria that convinces many people that they need a stimulant to feel "normal," when in fact they're just experiencing the initial euphoric effects of the drug. Be warned that the euphoria fades and, more importantly, does not return without abusing dosing schedules. ADHD marketing materials combined with pop-psychiatry have stretched the definition of ADHD to encompass nearly anyone. It's trivial to find low-grade internet forums in which users believe that anything and everything is a symptom of ADHD. You can even find a large number of people who believe that something called "hyperfocus" (being able to focus very intently on one thing for a long period of time) is a symptom of ADHD, believe it or not. Of course, the term "hyperfocus" does not appear in ADHD medical literature or any ADHD studies. ADHD is a complex disorder, and the modern world can (and does) drive people in to ADHD-like states with all of the distractions available to us. The single best approach to dealing with this is to pursue constant discipline and self-monitoring, in order to train yourself back to a healthier mental process. ADHD medications can help people implement those disciplines and healthy processes, but they don't actually substitute for proper habits. It's not uncommon for people to pop Adderall expecting their ADHD to disappear, only to be drawn in to extended video game or web-browsing sessions that are in no way productive. So my advice would be to make efforts to structure your life in ways to minimize distractions and hold yourself accountable for your results. Realize that everyone is distracted in modern life, but that's not necessarily indicative of a disease. Stimulant medications are not to be taken lightly, and you're best avoiding them long-term if possible.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
whybroke 11y ago
Honestly though what percentage difference does this make in productivity and is that percentage really going to be the difference between a startup's success and failure? Being fired or not? Being happy or not? If the thing makes you happy then that's one thing. If you think getting 10% or 20% more work done is going to move you from mediocre to exceptional or is going to make you happy, I beg to differ.
- mej10 11y ago
  (assuming) 10-20%, compounded over as long as you can sustain it. It can make a huge difference. Also, they make most people feel fantastic and like they can conquer the world. Is it really any question why people would find that appealing?
  - whybroke 11y ago
    Does labor compound? My understanding is that say a freelance carpenter who works 20% harder for 40 years ends up about 20% richer not 1.2 ^ 40 = 1469 times richer >Also, they make most people feel fantastic and like they can conquer the world. Is it really any question why people would find that appealing? Perhaps, but what is the delta increase in zeal for their project. Presumably they were tolerably enthusiastic before taking the pill. Is the difference significant? Now if it makes the user feel better then that alone might be a good reason for taking it. But let's not suppose that a bad project or feckless employee is going to become the next google or Einstein because of a pill.
    - jdefr89 11y ago
      Crystal meth and heroin make a user feel better.. Should we hand that out as well?
      - whybroke 11y ago
        I have no opinion on the this decade's fashion concerning evil vs good drugs. But expecting life changing increase in productivity from any of those things would be an error.
ryan90 11y ago
This really shouldn't be a shocker. I was diagnosed with ADHD in elementary school and have been on and off medication ever since. A large number of friends in the professional world use these stimulants regularly. I think that these drugs are very useful for short term sprints where one needs to focus, or do rather mundane tasks. But it's incredibly easy to become dependent on them. At one point, I could even begin to focus unless I had the max dose of adderall and a strong cup of coffee. I don't judge anyone who uses stimulants to increase performance. Just because I was diagnosed with ADHD doesn't mean I'm not using them as a performing enhancing drug; it's just legal for me to do so. However, I would encourage everyone - whether you're prescribed or not - to use them in moderation. It's very easy to build up a tolerance and become dependent, and once you're dependent, you're no better off than where you started.
- jdefr89 11y ago
  I have also been on psycho-stimulants for a while. People simply don't realize the effect they are really after is the buzzed high like euphoria. Furthermore, those effects don't last and you need to keep cranking up the dose to achieve your desired mental state.
SCAQTony 11y ago
Not just in the workplace NFL players are using ADHD drugs to mask concussions too so as to keep their jobs and be "more productive." http://www.beyondchron.org/will-ritalin-become-the-human-growth-hormone-of-sports-concussion-testing/ http://www.beyondchron.org/will-ritalin-become-the-human-gro...
- ams6110 11y ago
  How is that not "in the workplace"?

43 points by romefort 11y ago

>>> Investors in her health-technology start-up Running a health start-up and popping Aderalls like there is no tomorrow does not seem a good fit.

jotm 11y ago
Hopefully it's a health startup promoting the legalization of stimulants and enhancers :-)
- eli_gottlieb 11y ago
  Legalize all you like: amphetamines are still bad for your heart and can engender quite the headache when they wear off.
  - jotm 11y ago
    Just like caffeine.
  - SCAQTony 11y ago
    That quote from Blade Runner: "The candle that burns twice as bright only lasts half as long..." Sparingly, it seems like an important drug as a last resort for ADDHD but for "enhancement purposes?" Summary: A new study conducted in rats [rats are not people] by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and McLean Hospital/Harvard Medical School suggests that the misdiagnosis of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) combined with prescription drug use in children may [emphasis on the word may] lead to a higher risk of developing depressive symptoms in adulthood. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041220013546.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041220013546.ht...

amelius 11y ago

And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! > Most users who were interviewed said they got pills by feigning symptoms of A.D.H.D., a disorder marked by severe impulsivity and inattention, to physicians who casually write prescriptions without proper evaluations. And thus these practices disturb statistics about the true prevalence of ADHD.

xamuel 11y ago
>And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! This raises interesting philosophical questions about work in general. If work is inherently valuable, isn't anything that enhances it a good thing (assume lack of side effects for simplicity)? Is it "unfair" if a doctor/scientist/programmer uses a product to be more productive? Very few of us are formally competitive athletes, and special rules apply to those of us who are. I think it's unfair that some people can afford secretaries, accountants, editors, private schools, etc., those seem much less fair than ADHD medicine. One of my childhood heroes, the great mathematician Paul Erdos, was a famous amphetamine user, does that mean the wonderful contributions he made to our understanding of the universe are "unfair"?
- amelius 11y ago
  > I think it's unfair that some people can afford secretaries, accountants, editors, private schools, etc., those seem much less fair than ADHD medicine. Yes, but between two people who are otherwise equal (in status), the one using the drug has an unfair advantage. > One of my childhood heroes, the great mathematician Paul Erdos, was a famous amphetamine user, does that mean the wonderful contributions he made to our understanding of the universe are "unfair"? To his peers his actions may have been certainly unfair. The least he could have done was disclose in his publications that his results were obtained while using these drugs.
  - xamuel 11y ago
    >Yes, but between two people who are otherwise equal (in status), the one using the drug has an unfair advantage. Okay. Between two people who are otherwise equal (in drugs), the one with the more servants has an unfair advantage. >The least he could have done was disclose in his publications that his results were obtained while using these drugs Should the same go for caffeine?

solve 11y ago

Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your work requires steady output instead of rare bursts, it's questionable whether it even surpasses coffee because of these downsides.

berntb 11y ago
Check the wikipedia page about coffee health effects. The side effects seems to not be close to zero, but positive. (I hope the same will soon be said about my other misused "drug", the Dark Souls series of games. :-) I'll try the ADHD stuff when it becomes legal.)
jotm 11y ago
Ephedrine and dextroamphetamine are already better than coffee, in small dosages. Sadly, it's gonna be a long time before they're legal, if ever.
ugexe 11y ago
The tolerance/withdrawal drawbacks for adderall are nearly non existent if you don't abuse it and take weekends off. Sure, after the well known honeymoon phase of a few weeks it's not the superman pill you might have expected would last forever, but otherwise responsible use will keep you more productive. People with little will power or addictive personalities (which a third party can't possibly always know) aren't usually equipped to deal with such moderation, so instead we let the "gotta work 7 days a week!" grinders stigmatize an otherwise safe and useful medicine/tool. When used responsibly I can assure you it's more effective and has less side effects than caffeine IF you tolerate it well (not everyone can, just like not everyone can tolerate caffeine)
- inmyunix 11y ago
  i recently quit adderall after 10 years and experienced Zero withdrawal.

josephagoss 11y ago

Interesting that there was no mention of Modafinil. I believe that one of the most "abused" drugs for "productivity" is currently Modafinil, far more powerful than Adderall and without all those side effects. Of course, long term side effects are unknown.

jronald 11y ago
I'd disagree with it being far more "powerful" than Adderall, having been prescribed both at one time or another. They're effects on me are quite different: Adderall - I seem to focus on anything I needed to without resistance, similar to how I would focus on something I enjoy. The side effects on me were (to me) extreme emotional instability, which was too off putting to use regularly - could not play well with others. Modafinil (and Adrafinil before that) - The concentration assistance is there for when I'm focused, but it doesn't seem to help me stay on topic - I'm still easily distracted. The upside is I can still play well with others, and if anything seem more energetic (I hit the gym every morning I use it). The reduced sleep effect is real, I went from an average of 6 hours a night to <4, and it feels like the regained time is still productive. I have no hard numbers around this, and not really sure how to build a baseline to compare to. I'd like to see how I react to both together, but hesitant given my poor reaction to Adderall. When I was younger I remember preferring Ritalin over Adderall. EDIT: Adding to the throwaway comment below, the long halflife of Modafinil is true, especially when trying to sleep. For me, after months of 3-4 days on a week, there seemed to be no long term issues with this, where days I had taken Modafinil I only slept 3-4 hours. I definitely had issues with alcohol and Modafinil, where at my weight (220lbs) I could normally drink 3-4 pints to reach 'buzzed' status, this seemed to happen at 1-2 pints. This trend stayed consistent - and proper 'drunk' came much quicker. This had the effect of limiting my drinking, to the point where I would switch to light beers and stop drinking after 1-2. This has been positive to me, but a bit concerning as I hadn't read of that effect before.
- throwaway98031 11y ago
  > I'd like to see how I react to both together, but hesitant given my poor reaction to Adderall. When I was younger I remember preferring Ritalin over Adderall. I always advise against poly-pharmacy if possible. Particularly when dealing with powerful stimulants for which the mechanism of action isn't fully understood (Modafinil). Interestingly, Modafinil might somewhat antagonize the Adderall due to an interaction between their mechanisms of action. Modafinil's MOA is partially due to dopamine reuptake inhibition (similar to Ritalin), but Adderall relies largely on being taken in to the presynaptic terminals and forcing dopamine out. By inhibiting dopamine uptake, Modafinil can (theoretically) decrease the amount of Adderall taken in to the terminal as well as the amount of dopamine available in the terminal for release. We've seen this in a few studies where Modafinil can actually reduce the neurotoxic effects of Adderall, likely due to this antagonizing of Adderall's core MOA. The magnitude of this effect at therapeutic dosages is unknown, but it's possible and even likely that the combination would be distinctly different than what you might expect a combination of the two drugs to feel like. > EDIT: Adding to the throwaway comment below, the long halflife of Modafinil is true, especially when trying to sleep. For me, after months of 3-4 days on a week, there seemed to be no long term issues with this, where days I had taken Modafinil I only slept 3-4 hours. It's expected that your body would adapt somewhat to sleeping on the medication, but that doesn't mean that you were getting quality sleep. Humans are notoriously bad at judging sleep quality, for one, but more importantly here: You were taking a wakefulness-promoting agent, which would have covered any subjective feelings of poor sleep. My concerns with Modafinil stem more from potential long-term implications of interrupting sleep, particularly when the traditional signs of poor sleep (daily fatigue and sleepiness) are then obscured by the drug itself, leading to a false sense of restedness. However, we can begin to infer poor sleep quality by other, indirect markets, such as: > I definitely had issues with alcohol and Modafinil, where at my weight (220lbs) I could normally drink 3-4 pints to reach 'buzzed' status, this seemed to happen at 1-2 pints. This trend stayed consistent - and proper 'drunk' came much quicker. This had the effect of limiting my drinking, to the point where I would switch to light beers and stop drinking after 1-2. Getting subjectively incapacitated from a lower number of beers could, theoretically, be indicative of a subtle sleep-deprived state, for example. Again, much of this is just semi-educated conjecture, but given the importance of sleep to long-term health I'm wary of these stimulants with long half-lives.

zxcvcxz 11y ago

Off topic, but I was diagnosed with ADHD about 10 years ago, been taking methylphenidate ER ever since. Throughout the years I have had over ten different doctors at the same location and I informed each doctor that I was a marijuana user. Recently my latest doctor decided to drug test me, before asking any questions about my usage or even looking at my file he stated he would no longer prescribe me my medicine because I use marijuana and "those two don't interact well together". When I repeatedly asked him to back up his opinion with actual evidence (studies), he repeatedly refused. He would not even explain the reaction that marijuana had with ADHD medication. After less than three minutes I was asked to leave his office. No discussion about my condition was allowed. I'm aware that the doctors opinion is what goes and he has all the power, but I feel I've been wronged. I really need this medicine and it's probably does more harm to kick me off cold turkey without even looking at my file than to let me smoke marijuana with it, and I feel that his opinion is based more on politics than rigorous medical study. I have a feeling if I was an alcohol drinker he would have no problem. So it goes.

jp555 11y ago
That is strange. My doctor finds no problem with my cannabis consumption while taking methylphenidate. I don't find they interact in a negative way, however I find too much coffee + methylphenidate is very counter productive. The caffine stimulation seems to totally overwhelm the focused stimulation of the methylphenidate, and not in a good way.
snarfy 11y ago
> I'm aware that the doctors opinion is what goes and he has all the power, but I feel I've been wronged. He actually has little power. You can go to a different doctor. There are many people that abuse this fact, e.g. keep switching doctors until they find one that prescribes them painkillers, but in your case it sounds perfectly valid. You have ten other opinions that think it's perfectly fine to combine your meds.
- zxcvcxz 11y ago
  The problem is that I go to a mental-health center and because of my financial situation they only charge me three dollars a visit. I'm going to look for other doctors, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to find another health center willing to work with poor people. We'll see..

gregpilling 11y ago

I have a prescription for Adderall, Modafinil and a have tried bunch of others. Adderall was prescribed for fibromyalgia related symptoms of brain fog and lack of memory, modafinil for chronic fatigue. Adderall aggravated the Renaud's syndrome that I have had for 5 years, to the point where the blood flow stopped and the fingers began to suffer from continuos lack of blood . See http://imgur.com/Djy6g2A http://imgur.com/Djy6g2A This has been a daily challenge for the last couple of months, and it has greatly impacted my ability to work. I have a hard time using my hands to do anything, even typing. I am now off Adderall (6 months), withdrawal was not too bad for me. I miss the Adderall, since it made me feel like my brain worked again. I felt like my old self, much sharper mentally - no focus change, still ADD as ever, but felt restored in the brain. I felt 25 again (45 now) and was able to work better, in the sense that 25 year old me was more energetic than 45 year old me. I tried Strattera for a few days, but found that has nasty side effects and also aggravated my hands. Modafinil I don't notice any other effect, other than I don't feel as tired all the time. I don't feel smarter, or better, only not exhausted. For me, there is no stimulant feeling with Modafinil, or ability/skills change, just an change in the tired all the time feeling. So, if you are going to use these drugs, pay attention to the side effects. I would recommend avoiding them unless you need them.

afarrell 11y ago

How does somebody tell if they actually have ADHD or they are just easily distracted? Isn't "Do they respond to ADHD medication?" our only test?

throwaway98031 11y ago
> Isn't "Do they respond to ADHD medication?" our only test? No, absolutely not. It's a common internet myth that response to ADHD medication is indicative of ADHD. In reality, nearly anyone who takes ADHD medication acutely will experience increased focus and productivity (again, acutely) due to the acute (pre-tolerance build-up) effects of the drugs. Additionally, new users experience a short-lived euphoria that convinces many people that they need a stimulant to feel "normal," when in fact they're just experiencing the initial euphoric effects of the drug. Be warned that the euphoria fades and, more importantly, does not return without abusing dosing schedules. ADHD marketing materials combined with pop-psychiatry have stretched the definition of ADHD to encompass nearly anyone. It's trivial to find low-grade internet forums in which users believe that anything and everything is a symptom of ADHD. You can even find a large number of people who believe that something called "hyperfocus" (being able to focus very intently on one thing for a long period of time) is a symptom of ADHD, believe it or not. Of course, the term "hyperfocus" does not appear in ADHD medical literature or any ADHD studies. ADHD is a complex disorder, and the modern world can (and does) drive people in to ADHD-like states with all of the distractions available to us. The single best approach to dealing with this is to pursue constant discipline and self-monitoring, in order to train yourself back to a healthier mental process. ADHD medications can help people implement those disciplines and healthy processes, but they don't actually substitute for proper habits. It's not uncommon for people to pop Adderall expecting their ADHD to disappear, only to be drawn in to extended video game or web-browsing sessions that are in no way productive. So my advice would be to make efforts to structure your life in ways to minimize distractions and hold yourself accountable for your results. Realize that everyone is distracted in modern life, but that's not necessarily indicative of a disease. Stimulant medications are not to be taken lightly, and you're best avoiding them long-term if possible.
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whybroke 11y ago

Honestly though what percentage difference does this make in productivity and is that percentage really going to be the difference between a startup's success and failure? Being fired or not? Being happy or not? If the thing makes you happy then that's one thing. If you think getting 10% or 20% more work done is going to move you from mediocre to exceptional or is going to make you happy, I beg to differ.

mej10 11y ago
(assuming) 10-20%, compounded over as long as you can sustain it. It can make a huge difference. Also, they make most people feel fantastic and like they can conquer the world. Is it really any question why people would find that appealing?
- whybroke 11y ago
  Does labor compound? My understanding is that say a freelance carpenter who works 20% harder for 40 years ends up about 20% richer not 1.2 ^ 40 = 1469 times richer >Also, they make most people feel fantastic and like they can conquer the world. Is it really any question why people would find that appealing? Perhaps, but what is the delta increase in zeal for their project. Presumably they were tolerably enthusiastic before taking the pill. Is the difference significant? Now if it makes the user feel better then that alone might be a good reason for taking it. But let's not suppose that a bad project or feckless employee is going to become the next google or Einstein because of a pill.
  - jdefr89 11y ago
    Crystal meth and heroin make a user feel better.. Should we hand that out as well?
    - whybroke 11y ago
      I have no opinion on the this decade's fashion concerning evil vs good drugs. But expecting life changing increase in productivity from any of those things would be an error.

ryan90 11y ago

This really shouldn't be a shocker. I was diagnosed with ADHD in elementary school and have been on and off medication ever since. A large number of friends in the professional world use these stimulants regularly. I think that these drugs are very useful for short term sprints where one needs to focus, or do rather mundane tasks. But it's incredibly easy to become dependent on them. At one point, I could even begin to focus unless I had the max dose of adderall and a strong cup of coffee. I don't judge anyone who uses stimulants to increase performance. Just because I was diagnosed with ADHD doesn't mean I'm not using them as a performing enhancing drug; it's just legal for me to do so. However, I would encourage everyone - whether you're prescribed or not - to use them in moderation. It's very easy to build up a tolerance and become dependent, and once you're dependent, you're no better off than where you started.

jdefr89 11y ago
I have also been on psycho-stimulants for a while. People simply don't realize the effect they are really after is the buzzed high like euphoria. Furthermore, those effects don't last and you need to keep cranking up the dose to achieve your desired mental state.

SCAQTony 11y ago

Not just in the workplace NFL players are using ADHD drugs to mask concussions too so as to keep their jobs and be "more productive." http://www.beyondchron.org/will-ritalin-become-the-human-growth-hormone-of-sports-concussion-testing/ http://www.beyondchron.org/will-ritalin-become-the-human-gro...

ams6110 11y ago
How is that not "in the workplace"?