10 ms·

‘Free-range’ parents plan to file lawsuit after police pick up children

99 points by Thimothy 12y ago

brohoolio 12y ago
It's interesting how people's perceptions have changed over time. My brother and I walked home from school down dirt roads and through mature forests 3 miles. We weren't supposed to, but it wasn't a big deal. We were 11 and 6. I wonder what would happen today.
- hurin 12y ago
  Now your parents would be considered libertarian nuts and prosecuted by the state. Notice how what were once normal parents are now "free-range" parents.
  - mcintyre1994 12y ago
    I can't help but think they've given themselves this label. I have no evidence for that but it has way too positive connotations to be slapped on them from a distance - with sizeable negative connotations for the alternative too. It seems too easy to come up with something far more negative if you wanted to make them seem bad.
joliss 12y ago
Related visualization of how kid's range has shrunk over four generations: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2b/4e/b3/2b4eb36f91e4c82bf017188613ac9a63.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2b/4e/b3/2b4eb36f9...
- brohoolio 12y ago
  Very interesting.
  - brohoolio 12y ago
    I wonder how much of it has to do with automobile traffic.
    - DamnYuppie 12y ago
      Probably not much. Most of it, seems to me, to be related to unfounded fear that something bad is going to happen to the child.
      - revelation 12y ago
        Try walking those six miles to go fishing. I'd probably first have to spend 10 minutes to research suitable paths to even get there and not end up in the middle of a desert of cars.
- patcheudor 12y ago
  Yesterday I needed to run some errands and it hit me pretty hard how silly we've become. My seven year daughter didn't want to come with me and while I'm sure she's mature enough to stay at home by herself I went to Google to determine if I'd be viewed as a criminal or not in the eyes of my parenting peers or the state. It turned out that my local child protective services had a Q&A on their site stating that it's okay to leave a child home alone at age 11. I then went to my city and state statutes and couldn't find a single law which said it would be illegal. After a bit more research I found plenty of parents recommending that kids not only can, but should be left home alone if they are okay with it. This helps to build independence and self-esteem. I ended up leaving her at home alone for about an hour and not a single bad thing happened.
  - jobu 12y ago
    No idea where it came from, but we've been told that up to one hour alone per grade level is a good rule of thumb.
    - falsestprophet 12y ago
      I heard that too from a uninformed internet commenter.
  - bane 12y ago
    We used to have the notion of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid I grew up with both parents working long hours, and I was definitely a Latchkey kid. From the time I got home until right before dinner I was usually alone to do what I wanted. I think for a few years, when I was 6 or 7, my mother required I call her every hour as a check-in, but even that relaxed by the time I was 8 or 9. My only requirement was to be home by dark, regardless of the time of year and if parents were home. Curiously, my parents would also occasionally hire a babysitter, but I never quite understood why and what for. It was pretty random.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Homes are pretty dangerous and sometimes children do stupid things. While child protective services shouldn't be called[1] for someone leaving a child for a short time CPS needs to have clear and easy to communicate guidelines. They might want to say "11 and up; unless they're not stupid and the home is safe and you're not gone too long" but, well, the target audience needs clearer information. [1] it'd be good if we had a "report early, report often" culture and the funding to go with it. A single report of a mild incident means nothing happens; several reports of mild incidents from different agencies means a freindly chat to see if help is needed or wanted.
- bane 12y ago
  It's truly ridiculous sometimes. My neighborhood has half a dozen schools in it but it's only about a mile in any direction. It has extensive walking paths, sidewalks, crosswalks, lights, etc. Any child is within an easy 10-15 minute walk to school, and there wouldn't need to be more than 2 or 3 crossing guards to cover all the major roads and intersections. But this would be too easy, instead all the children line up at bus stops throughout the neighborhood, take a 5-10 minute bus-ride to their school and a 5-10 minute ride in the afternoon to get back home. Parents who want to drop their kids off create chaos as hundreds of cars pack the areas around schools so they can drop-off their children. The local message boards are full of angry parents swearing at each other for driving poorly or violating some kind of unwritten rule during this drop-off/pick-up period. To say it's chaos would by minimizing it. My understanding is that no child walks to any of the schools, even if they live across the street. The consideration is that it's too dangerous, with all the buses and cars and all. And there's a couple largish roads with people who drive too fast. So instead of a couple crossing guards, they've created an unsafe chaos, used millions of dollars worth of equipment and hired a dozen or more bus drivers to shuttle kids back and forth to school. Of course once our pools are open, kids run around the entire neighborhood with complete abandon, dodging hi-speed traffic in flipflops as they frogger their way to their summer fun. I remember when I was a young child I had about a mile-by-mile area in an urban area I could free-range within. It was naturally cut-off by some major roads, but provided more than enough area for me and my friends to play around in. On occasion, I'd walk to elementary school instead of taking the bus, 3 or 4 miles away. It wasn't seen as a big deal. When I was about 10 we moved to a rural area, and my local free-range zone exploded to a massive wooded zone full of animals, and creeks and rivers. My mother decided she wanted me to attend an after-school program across the street from my school. It was at an intersection with crosswalks and walk signals and everything. Things went well for the first couple weeks. Then one day, in great alarm, the principal of the school grabbed me before I left for the day and forbade me from crossing the street. For the rest of the contract period with the after-school program, I had to call a taxi, wait 10-20 minute for him to show up, have him take me the 10 second drive across the street, pay the minimum fare (I think it was $5 at the time). Finally the taxi company even started complaining that this was stupid to the school, but my parents had had enough and pulled from the after school program and just let me take the bus home....where I happily walked a mile down a busy country dirt road from my bus stop to my house to put down my school stuff before heading off into the woods until it got dark.
- toufka 12y ago
  An interesting side effect is that most of the general populous in a larger city has very little contact with children in public. They've been removed from society at large - to the detriment of both the children and society.
T3RMINATED 12y ago
i walked to school alone i even babysitted my sister while immigrant parents worked... i was 8 she was 6... we went about a 3mi radius and played all day until the lights came on.
sz4kerto 12y ago
At the age of 10, I commuted to a school that was 15 miles from my home (because it was better than the local elementary school). With two of my classmates, 'alone'. With train. Everyone considered this completely normal and acceptable. Life is getting safer and more secure as time passes. 2015 is safer than, say, 1995. This whole thing is just sad and crippling for kids (and also for the parents, but it's mostly their fault).
j_m_b 12y ago
Until the age of 10, I roamed in about a square mile of lakes, woods, creeks and fields. At the age of 10, we moved to a different state and city and my range increased considerably and it was common for me to roam miles away from my home. Granted, my parents just thought we were "in the woods" or "on the bikepath" and probably didn't know the full extent of our travels but they didn't make hard rules as to where we could be, either. The freedom I was given encouraged me to push my boundaries and it expanded my mind. I wouldn't trade those years of exploring woods, swimming in creeks and quarries and observing wildlife for anything. There weren't many other kids who traveled as extensively as my brother and I did. Perhaps more children would be persuaded to put down the iPhone and go outside if they had the freedom to roam as they please. Limiting them to their backyards and next door neighboor's house isn't nearly as enticing as "go roam".
- more_original 12y ago
  Similar story here. Our parents made sure that all children could swim well as early as possible. I remember them supervising us only as long as there was a weak swimmer in the group. From then on I think they generally kept an eye on where we were, not always and without us noticing, but I think they actually had a good idea of our range. When we were around 11, we were given tools (hammer, saw, nails and old left-over boards with rusty nails in them) to build our own tree house. Our parents started with a basic version, and we were free to build extensions (without supervision). This was really fun and there were only minor injuries. I'm not sure it would still be possible today.
gerbal 12y ago
A paradox of a safer society is that tragic acts like child abductions make more news than they would if they were more commonplace, inflating the perception of the threat. People feel that the threat is greater in fact because it is so much rarer.
- researcher88 12y ago
  Child abduction by strangers is extremely rare and around 100 per year in the US although that may be an outdated number. The one stat I just checked said 515 stranger abductions between 1990 and 1995. And that was when free range children were far more common than today.
  - abandonliberty 12y ago
    Overprotective parents will claim that's a result of their actions. Also, as less parents allow their children to roam, the risk to the remaining ones increase as there are a smaller pool of children readily abductible. Meanwhile 3 million children a year have substantiated reports of abuse (50% of reported) https://www.childhelp.org/child-abuse-statistics/ https://www.childhelp.org/child-abuse-statistics/
TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
I'm 19. Pretty sure I walked to school at 11 here in the UK. Probably earlier actually, I can't remember when I started, I just know I definitely went by foot to secondary school (which I started at 11). I'm not sure I'd be okay with a six-year-old on their own, but they are accompanied by a ten-year-old. Why can't they walk together back home? In Japan, it's common and encouraged for young children to walk to school on their own from an early age, or so I have heard.
rayiner 12y ago
It really boggles my mind how crazy people have gotten when it comes to kids. I grew up in the 1990's with overprotective Asian immigrant parents.[1] They wouldn't let us do anything other kids did. But hell if we weren't walking home from school when we were about the same age as these kids. As an aside, I hear people complain about lawsuits against police departments, because ultimately any judgments are paid out of tax dollars. I find that argument unavailing. In almost every municipality, police departments are the product of democratic processes. The police department is shitty because the people who vote for the leadership are shitty. This happened in Silver Spring, MD, a suburb of DC and home to a large number of uptight paranoid people. I grew up just on the other side of the MD-VA line: the only tragedy here would be if these taxpayers weren't on the hook for a big judgment to these parents. [1] I honestly thought that it wouldn't get worse than when I was growing up--assembly rooms full of teachers and parents shrieking "just say no!"
- neurotech1 12y ago
  What about the grizzly bears that could hurt the children? Springfield has the solution to this issue, the Bear Patrol. There hasn't been a single attack from a grizzly bear whilst the B-2s were over the area. The parents of Silver Spring, MD are expecting the Maryland Air National Guard to acquire the aircraft, wih a cost of $2.1Bn each. In all seriousness, DC Metro is some of the most patrolled airspace in the country. Several agencies fly helicopter patrols around Silver Spring. [0] https://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lat1d3Zmf91qzdsi5o1_1280.png https://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lat1d3Zmf91qzdsi5o1_1280....
- fallinghawks 12y ago
  I too had overprotective immigrant parents, yet at age 6 I was walking to elementary school, just a short distance of 4 blocks. Middle school was considerably further at 1.7 miles, and through the woods, but there was never any problem. We were also taking the bus, unaccompanied by parents, around town by age 12. I think also that people are more uninvolved with the people around them these days, especially in metropolitan areas. People don't know their neighbors and don't have the commitment to their neighborhood as in the past. You rarely hear of people verbally disciplining someone else's unruly children, or watching over them, as you might have read in stories from 50 years ago. People now are more likely to stand and watch a crime or an accident, or simply ignore it, rather than get involved. All this implies a greater danger to unaccompanied children.
anon4 12y ago
This is actually a prime business opportunity -- outdoors child-sitting. You'd watch over children and escort them home and to pre-approved locations. More liberal and hands-off parents could allow their children to explore as much as they like, as long as they don't trespass other property. This should also help to create a lot more job openings.
- hansrodtang 12y ago
  A dog walking service for children?
  - ics 12y ago
    Well, https://adlibventures.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/daycare-schoolbus-2.jpg https://adlibventures.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/daycare-sc... I've only seen that in Japan so far but both there and in New York I've seen the long leash where each child is clipped on with a harness. But these are for daycares and school field trips... clearly ripe for disruption. What parents need is an app like Uber for when they just need to go somewhere now...
    - mml 12y ago
      Uber for kids is a fantastic idea (I mean really fantastic, as in, I fantasize about it regularly, usually while driving my kids back and forth). I suspect the liability & trust problems would be insurmountable though. I'd pay up into the high hundreds per month to not have the time-suck of pick up & drop off constantly... Perhaps parents could pool enough money together to actually keep a full-time chauffeur around somehow. Scheduling would be rather dicey though.
      - ics 12y ago
        If 15 parents would pay $3000 per year, they could give one person a $45k/year salary for their services. Somewhere in there is a way to get a TaskRabbit to Uber your kids to their next Meetup. Private daycares exist. Chauffeurs for kids exist for people with enough money, as do parents using Uber for their kids (there was an article here a while back about it). Start with children and then branch out to the elderly and disabled. Call it Chaperone. Piggyback on existing startups so that individuals don't have to be qualified as drivers, caretakers, etc.; their job as chaperones is to ensure that everyone else does their job while mostly just being there. Found this but for at-home babysitters: https://angel.co/chaperone https://angel.co/chaperone Don't know if telling people to "think Tinder" for the UI is the best association though. I am not a parent, but I think we're losing some brightness in our future if we can't resolve trust issues that lie in the way of better services for parents and children. Lots to think about...
mml 12y ago
As a parent myself, I find all of this paranoia completely insane. My daughter and a school friend (8 at the time) walked down a half a block to our neighborhood park here (in the scary city!) to play, and her friends' mother found out and LOST it. It's crippling to children, and unbelievably annoying for adults (need to run into the store for a stick of gum? Gotta unpack the kids and bring them with for the 1 minute transaction, or someone will call CPS!). Here in Minnesota, my theory is that Jacob Wetterling's family and the "news"-mongers are largely to blame. That sad incident of course, was 25+ years ago now, and is still regularly dredged up to scare the pants off of parents. Feh! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Wetterling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Wetterling
ddingus 12y ago
I hope they do. Somehow, a lot of us --maybe a few too many of us, have decided to go both authoritarian and over protective with children. Given how I grew up, this emerging set of norms is disturbing and depressing. One thing I noticed among my peers is those who really got sheltered had a number of common and significant problems later in life, and they all centered on both the rebellion stage, and their exit from "the bubble" they grew up in. Rebelling is common, and for most people, just an ordinary part of coming of age. We get through it, and that's that. For the sheltered kids, particularly those who experienced a very authoritarian up bringing, not only did they rebel, but they often over did it! I'm convinced they overdo it, because the second aspect of this; namely, the sheltering or "bubble" type upbringing really didn't socialize them well enough to cope with basic human realities and diversity, nor did it expose them to the world, it's real limits and risks, not just the safe ones, or invisible ones they didn't see while in their protective bubbles. Many ended up OK, somewhat protective still, but many didn't either. And they continue a bad cycle, perhaps trying harder with their own kids. Some of this comes down to wanting to protect the kids and insure they have all the opportunity possible. Noble, but short sighted, given that same lack of general exposure to the world and social dynamics may well inhibit their ability to exploit those hard won opportunities! Another contributor is the desire to mold the kids, in a sense, insuring they carry some values and norms the parents find important for their reasons. But nobody really asked the kids, did they? In fact, a big part of the sheltering is to keep them from asking too! And that's a crime really. If some value, religion, norm, whatever really does have merit, should it not stand a basic and rational skepticism? Of course it should. More importantly, does it make sense to structure how people grow up in ways that deny them the critical mind needed to actually make those choices for their reasons? There is a lot wrong with this growing norm. Heck, when I grew up, the rules were really basic. Don't get lost, don't get hurt, don't steal, don't fuck with the animals, etc... From there, my peers and I would gather in a meeting place, decide on the adventure for the day and have at it! We quickly learned the world is real, and that real things happen to people in it, and we took care of one another, getting through just fine, despite the fact that on many a weekend some of us could very easily have gotten killed, seriously hurt. We can't do everything for our kids. And I submit we really shouldn't. They need to explore, learn, do, think, play, build, and if they don't, or it's too well managed, that managed experience will clash hard with the real world as they enter it. And the vast majority of them will enter it too. Better to do so eyes wide open, experiences true, minds potent. I also think we are going to pay really hard for this folly too. Who cares for us in our old age? Who will be calling the shots some time from now? They can and should file. More parents should.
_delirium 12y ago
Question on a slightly different setting: in more urban areas with public transport, is it common for kids (past some age) to be allowed to travel places on their own on metros/buses? It's definitely common here (Copenhagen), and from what I gather also fairly common in other European cities, and in Japan. But I have no idea if it is in NYC, SF, or Chicago. I think it's partly normalized here from a certain age because we don't have school buses, and instead kids are expected to take the regular transit. So then it's not a huge stretch for them to take the same buses to piano lessons, friends' houses, etc.
- mml 12y ago
  In a rare fit of sensibility, Minneapolis public schools stopped bussing highschool kids around. They now get free city bus passes, and our roads aren't (as) clogged as they were with giant yellow kindertransports full of young adults. As a bonus,it exposes random middle-class kids to city busses they might otherwise never consider using.
X-Istence 12y ago
I grew up in The Netherlands (until I was 8) and Switzerland (until I was 12), at age 12 I moved to the US. In The Netherlands me and my friends had quite the range. We were allowed to go down to the soccer field half a mile away, I remember walking to see friends half-way across town. In Switzerland I had a very similar range, and by the time I was 10 I was taking the tram to school (in Basel, other side of the city). I was allowed to roam as much as I pleased so long as I was back home by certain times. I remember spending hours with friends in Basel. When I got to the US I had the same amount of ability to roam around. I am now 27 years old, and I am watching all these parents hover over their kids, and it makes me afraid for society as a whole. All that roaming and being outside and away from the house just made me who I am, not afraid, and gave me a huge sense of self-worth, confidence and self-esteem.
- david-given 12y ago
  I'm British, but I live in Zürich; it's awesome to see random packs of kids roaming around doing stuff on their own. I think there's two main things which make this possible: firstly, the amazing public transport system, which means that it's basically impossible to get stuck everywhere; also the culture that adults are not scary, which means that they feel comfortable talking to adults (and vice versa). Admittedly, they mostly talk in thickly accented Schweizerdeutsch, which I don't understand a word of, but they're still talking. In the UK it's dangerous for an adult even to make eye contact with a child. Another interesting observation is that packs of children here that I've observed are, IMO, well behaved and polite. I have yet to see anything like the adult/child antagonism that you see in the UK. They're obviously doing something right here, while we're obviously not.
- makeitsuckless 12y ago
  Kids in the Netherlands have a range of many miles thanks to bicycles. Growing up in the Hague, we didn't only roam the entire width and breadth of the city, but we went for long cycling trips through the dunes and countryside to Wassenaar or Hoek van Holland, about 10 to 15 kilometers out of town. And I wasn't even an adventurous kid, being a nerdy bookworm most of the time.
kzhahou 12y ago
> Police said an officer saw a “homeless subject” who was “eyeing the children.” We should focus on the real problem: nasty filthy homeless mens wanted to steal our precious children! Also, there's no possible way the cop just made that up.
- mml 12y ago
  Even worse, he might have been having impure thoughts! Clearly, he should be arrested for blatant pre-premeditated pre-crime./s Why was this boob hanging around watching a hobo allegedly ogle unaccompanied children? Clearly said indigent's activity didn't rise to the level of even mild beating, so I'm not sure why officer Friendly even bothered mentioning it, other than to scare the impressionable.
- jqm 12y ago
  Probably a bunch of "respectable" folks were eying the children as well. Likely thinking "what are those kids doing out here by themselves! it's Dangerous!" Agree with the vast majority here who posit the whole thing has gotten destructive and ridiculous.
jeffmould 12y ago
I grew up less than 10 miles from the area where this is happening. Now granted when I was these kid's age it was the mid-70s to early 80s, but still from the time I was in kindergarten I walked to/from school about a mile each way every day regardless of whether it was sunny, rainy, snowing, whatever. After school I walked through our community to go to friend's houses at the ripe old age of 5 or 6. And on the weekends, kids of all ages were found running around the community from sunrise to sunset. Our parents trusted us and the other members of the community. Yet while our parents were letting us do this just around the corner one of the most notorious abductions in the area took place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon_sisters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon_sisters). So you can't tell me that there were not predators around at that time. IMO, the difference was that instead of calling the police on kids that seemed lost, most parents in the community would ask the kids if they needed help. I don't know where or how the shift occurred, but today it seems we live in a society where everyone wants to pass blame and cares only about themselves. I have two theories why this is occurring. First, the media of today is much different than the past. Today, it seems to me at least, the media has a bad habit of over-sensationalizing every story to pit two sides against one another. This story in particular has created such a havoc in this neighborhood that these kids, and their parents, will never live a "normal" life in that community again. The media has stirred the pot so much that there are now lone individuals that don't agree with these parents that are going to target this family every time they see something they don't like. My second theory is that we live in a society now where people are afraid of their own shadows at times. When I was about 7 or 8 I was skateboarding down a street a couple blocks from my house. I fell and cut my chin wide open requiring stitches. I started crying and walking home. In that time I must have had 4 or 5 different people come up to me to ask if I was alright with one finally giving me a ride home. I believe if this same situation happened today those 4-5 people would have probably just called 911 instead of trying to get involved and help me. They would have done this out of fear of being sued for not helping better. Or sadly there are those individuals in the community now who will label that person as a predator just for helping. Where I live now is a small town where everyone that lives here knows everyone. Kids of all ages run up and down the street at all hours of the day in the summer. We have a strong local police force that is always actively community policing and knows everyone that lives in the community. On the other hand it is a tourist town and during the summer the population swells drastically (we go from about 300 residents to well over 10,000), yet nothing changes. People look out for each other. More importantly, we also don't have any local major media outlets that report regularly on news in our area. And because it is a resort area where there is fear if bad things are reported it will drive tourism away, the media doesn't tend to report on all that occurs. Yet nothing bad happens that is out of the ordinary. I mean we have our increased bar fights, DUIs, thefts, and on occasion there has been a murder, but still I can wake up on a nice day and hear kids running around the street playing. No one calls the police on other people's kids. Even high school house parties go unreported as long as the kids don't violate parking laws or destroy someone else's property. And even if they do the party is usually just broken up, people sent on their way, and damages worked out between the parents.
sanderjd 12y ago
Anybody have the opposite perspective on this? Supposedly, "most people" nowadays think that children should not be allowed to roam, but I only ever hear from people who think that's ridiculous. For instance, I just scrolled the comments here and they are literally 100% "I can't believe how paranoid we've become". The conversation I read and hear on this is so one-sided that I really have no sense for what the argument of the other side even is.
- sneak 12y ago
  I think this is just media sensationalist bullshit. You wouldn't hire a ten year old to babysit your six year old. End of story.
  - abfan1127 12y ago
    under particular circumstances, yes I would. If my 10 year old was responsible and my 6 year old was responsive to my 10 year old's responsibility, I'd let them go down the street to the park. What's sensationalist bullshit is the garbage the police are spouting and the garbage CPS will be spouting as they take kids from their parents. They seem to think the foster care system will do a better job of raising the kids than these parents how have raised kids to be able to play at the park unattended.
  - mml 12y ago
    You're completely right. I wouldn't pay a 10 year old, but I'd have one watch my kids for a bit while I nip down to the store.
  - CapitalistCartr 12y ago
    I routinely rode my bike around the neighborhood at that age. On Saturday, I'd make my own bowl of cereal for breakfast, then ride around until I found my friends grouped on their bikes and we'd hang out as long as we wanted or until supper at 5:00 PM sharp (don't be late!). Ten years old is not an infant, and can responsibly navigate their own neighborhood if trained and allowed to learn.
  - zeroonetwothree 12y ago
upofadown 12y ago
How can kids get to school in such an environment? They are not old enough to drive after all...
tw04 12y ago
They were found in a parking garage where a homeless man was "eyeing the children"? So the police officer got the homeless man's information, right? Oh, no, no evidence to back up his story? THAT'S SHOCKING! Police NEVER lie in order to paint the story they want, EVER!
mindfulgeek 12y ago
We're so obsessed as a society on making life "easy" for our kids that we completely remove our children's ability to fend for themselves in the real world. These parents were doing their children a service and trying to break free from the overprotective craziness that has everyone keeping their kids inside. And the response they received is crazy. As if its not hard enough to go against the grain and give your kids more independence, now there is precedence that if you do, you may be at risk. Our jobs as parents is not to protect kids from life, but to give them the tools to navigate it. Part of giving them tools is giving them the opportunity to fail and learn from it. The rates of depression, suicide, bullying and drug use have been climbing higher and higher -- we're not helping our kids stay safe, we're keeping them from gaining wisdom. Eventually it will change, though I suspect things will get worse before they get better... change comes when the pain of staying the same is too great -- we're all too comfortable keeping our kids inside.
- monk_e_boy 12y ago
  It opens your eyes travelling to other countries, different rules and different social norms. Most places have kids running wild and seem to be enjoying themselves. Obviously there is risk, but 99.99% of adults would go to a childs aid if anything happened. But there is always one overprotective person in a position of power who delights in taking away some freedom in the name of security. It's hard to argue with someone when they are making kids safer... <cue dramatic music - dun dun duuun> but at what cost.
powertower 12y ago
I read that, on average, it would take 700,000 years for a child sitting on a bench in the park (unaccompanied) to get kidnapped.
protomyth 12y ago
So, all crime stats are down since the 70's when I grew up, we have more children that are out of shape, and children are no longer allowed to play outside or go to the park unattended. Yeah, we are seriously stupid and screwed. I guess the "hey, check out that hill, wonder how far it is to bike there?" mentality in children is long, long gone.
shit_parade2 12y ago
“We must ask ourselves how we reached the point where a parent’s biggest fear is that government officials will literally seize our children off the streets as they walk in our neighborhoods,” he said. I think the quote speaks for itself.
api 12y ago
Good. Children today are insanely over supervised. You can't individuate in the presence of an authority figure.
junto 12y ago
In today's world The Goonies would never happen!
underwater 12y ago
They chose to let their kids go out unattended. So obviously they accepted that bad things might happen. And something bad did happen. It seems like the kids learned a valuable lesson - the police may stop and detain you and there is not a whole lot you can do. But now the parents are saying they get to pick and chose which consequences are OK. You can't have it both ways.
- bones6 12y ago
  My guess is that they would sue the Post Office if a postal worker ran them down too.
graycat 12y ago
Let's see: (1) Fifth grade, I got a trumpet so rode the city bus downtown, 7 miles, to music lessons. (2) Once also downtown there was a movie I wanted to see so got a little extra cash and went to the movie after the music lesson. (3) About then on radio I heard Beethoven's 7th Symphony. So, when the NY Phil came to town, I got a ticket and rode the bus, right, to downtown, 7 miles away. (4) After school, I did what I wanted, went exploring. (5) Soon I got a bicycle so rode it to and from school and otherwise was GONE on my bicycle, commonly rode five miles away, once about 10 miles to the next state. (6) When about 11, visited a friend my age in the country. He had a motorcycle, and we went "two up" for miles and miles. Onion solution for the threat of abduction and harassment of children in MD, not entirely in jest: Put the MD police and CPS in diapers in bed overnight, and in the morning have them write 500 times "I will not be a fool". Have all their travels out of house or office supervised with a leash and a GPS ankle bracelet. Four days a week have them wear an orange jump suit with lettering "I am a fool" and work on their knees with a toothbrush washing the sidewalks. For the next year, have them do 15 minute check ins with actually competent adult supervision. Much simpler solution: Drastically cut the budgets of the police and CPS. Likely actual solution: Have the MD police and CPS lose a big law suit, and have that legal case provide cover for the bloodless bureaucrats that put up with such nonsense to tell the hysterical busy-bodies to cool it.
JohnTHaller 12y ago
"free-range parenting". Or, in the vernacular of all previous generations, "parenting".

99 points by Thimothy 12y ago

It's interesting how people's perceptions have changed over time. My brother and I walked home from school down dirt roads and through mature forests 3 miles. We weren't supposed to, but it wasn't a big deal. We were 11 and 6. I wonder what would happen today.

hurin 12y ago
Now your parents would be considered libertarian nuts and prosecuted by the state. Notice how what were once normal parents are now "free-range" parents.
- mcintyre1994 12y ago
  I can't help but think they've given themselves this label. I have no evidence for that but it has way too positive connotations to be slapped on them from a distance - with sizeable negative connotations for the alternative too. It seems too easy to come up with something far more negative if you wanted to make them seem bad.

joliss 12y ago

Related visualization of how kid's range has shrunk over four generations: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2b/4e/b3/2b4eb36f91e4c82bf017188613ac9a63.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2b/4e/b3/2b4eb36f9...

brohoolio 12y ago
Very interesting.
- brohoolio 12y ago
  I wonder how much of it has to do with automobile traffic.
  - DamnYuppie 12y ago
    Probably not much. Most of it, seems to me, to be related to unfounded fear that something bad is going to happen to the child.
    - revelation 12y ago
      Try walking those six miles to go fishing. I'd probably first have to spend 10 minutes to research suitable paths to even get there and not end up in the middle of a desert of cars.
patcheudor 12y ago
Yesterday I needed to run some errands and it hit me pretty hard how silly we've become. My seven year daughter didn't want to come with me and while I'm sure she's mature enough to stay at home by herself I went to Google to determine if I'd be viewed as a criminal or not in the eyes of my parenting peers or the state. It turned out that my local child protective services had a Q&A on their site stating that it's okay to leave a child home alone at age 11. I then went to my city and state statutes and couldn't find a single law which said it would be illegal. After a bit more research I found plenty of parents recommending that kids not only can, but should be left home alone if they are okay with it. This helps to build independence and self-esteem. I ended up leaving her at home alone for about an hour and not a single bad thing happened.
- jobu 12y ago
  No idea where it came from, but we've been told that up to one hour alone per grade level is a good rule of thumb.
  - falsestprophet 12y ago
    I heard that too from a uninformed internet commenter.
- bane 12y ago
  We used to have the notion of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid I grew up with both parents working long hours, and I was definitely a Latchkey kid. From the time I got home until right before dinner I was usually alone to do what I wanted. I think for a few years, when I was 6 or 7, my mother required I call her every hour as a check-in, but even that relaxed by the time I was 8 or 9. My only requirement was to be home by dark, regardless of the time of year and if parents were home. Curiously, my parents would also occasionally hire a babysitter, but I never quite understood why and what for. It was pretty random.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Homes are pretty dangerous and sometimes children do stupid things. While child protective services shouldn't be called[1] for someone leaving a child for a short time CPS needs to have clear and easy to communicate guidelines. They might want to say "11 and up; unless they're not stupid and the home is safe and you're not gone too long" but, well, the target audience needs clearer information. [1] it'd be good if we had a "report early, report often" culture and the funding to go with it. A single report of a mild incident means nothing happens; several reports of mild incidents from different agencies means a freindly chat to see if help is needed or wanted.
bane 12y ago
It's truly ridiculous sometimes. My neighborhood has half a dozen schools in it but it's only about a mile in any direction. It has extensive walking paths, sidewalks, crosswalks, lights, etc. Any child is within an easy 10-15 minute walk to school, and there wouldn't need to be more than 2 or 3 crossing guards to cover all the major roads and intersections. But this would be too easy, instead all the children line up at bus stops throughout the neighborhood, take a 5-10 minute bus-ride to their school and a 5-10 minute ride in the afternoon to get back home. Parents who want to drop their kids off create chaos as hundreds of cars pack the areas around schools so they can drop-off their children. The local message boards are full of angry parents swearing at each other for driving poorly or violating some kind of unwritten rule during this drop-off/pick-up period. To say it's chaos would by minimizing it. My understanding is that no child walks to any of the schools, even if they live across the street. The consideration is that it's too dangerous, with all the buses and cars and all. And there's a couple largish roads with people who drive too fast. So instead of a couple crossing guards, they've created an unsafe chaos, used millions of dollars worth of equipment and hired a dozen or more bus drivers to shuttle kids back and forth to school. Of course once our pools are open, kids run around the entire neighborhood with complete abandon, dodging hi-speed traffic in flipflops as they frogger their way to their summer fun. I remember when I was a young child I had about a mile-by-mile area in an urban area I could free-range within. It was naturally cut-off by some major roads, but provided more than enough area for me and my friends to play around in. On occasion, I'd walk to elementary school instead of taking the bus, 3 or 4 miles away. It wasn't seen as a big deal. When I was about 10 we moved to a rural area, and my local free-range zone exploded to a massive wooded zone full of animals, and creeks and rivers. My mother decided she wanted me to attend an after-school program across the street from my school. It was at an intersection with crosswalks and walk signals and everything. Things went well for the first couple weeks. Then one day, in great alarm, the principal of the school grabbed me before I left for the day and forbade me from crossing the street. For the rest of the contract period with the after-school program, I had to call a taxi, wait 10-20 minute for him to show up, have him take me the 10 second drive across the street, pay the minimum fare (I think it was $5 at the time). Finally the taxi company even started complaining that this was stupid to the school, but my parents had had enough and pulled from the after school program and just let me take the bus home....where I happily walked a mile down a busy country dirt road from my bus stop to my house to put down my school stuff before heading off into the woods until it got dark.
toufka 12y ago
An interesting side effect is that most of the general populous in a larger city has very little contact with children in public. They've been removed from society at large - to the detriment of both the children and society.

T3RMINATED 12y ago

i walked to school alone i even babysitted my sister while immigrant parents worked... i was 8 she was 6... we went about a 3mi radius and played all day until the lights came on.

sz4kerto 12y ago

At the age of 10, I commuted to a school that was 15 miles from my home (because it was better than the local elementary school). With two of my classmates, 'alone'. With train. Everyone considered this completely normal and acceptable. Life is getting safer and more secure as time passes. 2015 is safer than, say, 1995. This whole thing is just sad and crippling for kids (and also for the parents, but it's mostly their fault).

j_m_b 12y ago

Until the age of 10, I roamed in about a square mile of lakes, woods, creeks and fields. At the age of 10, we moved to a different state and city and my range increased considerably and it was common for me to roam miles away from my home. Granted, my parents just thought we were "in the woods" or "on the bikepath" and probably didn't know the full extent of our travels but they didn't make hard rules as to where we could be, either. The freedom I was given encouraged me to push my boundaries and it expanded my mind. I wouldn't trade those years of exploring woods, swimming in creeks and quarries and observing wildlife for anything. There weren't many other kids who traveled as extensively as my brother and I did. Perhaps more children would be persuaded to put down the iPhone and go outside if they had the freedom to roam as they please. Limiting them to their backyards and next door neighboor's house isn't nearly as enticing as "go roam".

more_original 12y ago
Similar story here. Our parents made sure that all children could swim well as early as possible. I remember them supervising us only as long as there was a weak swimmer in the group. From then on I think they generally kept an eye on where we were, not always and without us noticing, but I think they actually had a good idea of our range. When we were around 11, we were given tools (hammer, saw, nails and old left-over boards with rusty nails in them) to build our own tree house. Our parents started with a basic version, and we were free to build extensions (without supervision). This was really fun and there were only minor injuries. I'm not sure it would still be possible today.

gerbal 12y ago

A paradox of a safer society is that tragic acts like child abductions make more news than they would if they were more commonplace, inflating the perception of the threat. People feel that the threat is greater in fact because it is so much rarer.

researcher88 12y ago
Child abduction by strangers is extremely rare and around 100 per year in the US although that may be an outdated number. The one stat I just checked said 515 stranger abductions between 1990 and 1995. And that was when free range children were far more common than today.
- abandonliberty 12y ago
  Overprotective parents will claim that's a result of their actions. Also, as less parents allow their children to roam, the risk to the remaining ones increase as there are a smaller pool of children readily abductible. Meanwhile 3 million children a year have substantiated reports of abuse (50% of reported) https://www.childhelp.org/child-abuse-statistics/ https://www.childhelp.org/child-abuse-statistics/

TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago

I'm 19. Pretty sure I walked to school at 11 here in the UK. Probably earlier actually, I can't remember when I started, I just know I definitely went by foot to secondary school (which I started at 11). I'm not sure I'd be okay with a six-year-old on their own, but they are accompanied by a ten-year-old. Why can't they walk together back home? In Japan, it's common and encouraged for young children to walk to school on their own from an early age, or so I have heard.

rayiner 12y ago

It really boggles my mind how crazy people have gotten when it comes to kids. I grew up in the 1990's with overprotective Asian immigrant parents.[1] They wouldn't let us do anything other kids did. But hell if we weren't walking home from school when we were about the same age as these kids. As an aside, I hear people complain about lawsuits against police departments, because ultimately any judgments are paid out of tax dollars. I find that argument unavailing. In almost every municipality, police departments are the product of democratic processes. The police department is shitty because the people who vote for the leadership are shitty. This happened in Silver Spring, MD, a suburb of DC and home to a large number of uptight paranoid people. I grew up just on the other side of the MD-VA line: the only tragedy here would be if these taxpayers weren't on the hook for a big judgment to these parents. [1] I honestly thought that it wouldn't get worse than when I was growing up--assembly rooms full of teachers and parents shrieking "just say no!"

neurotech1 12y ago
What about the grizzly bears that could hurt the children? Springfield has the solution to this issue, the Bear Patrol. There hasn't been a single attack from a grizzly bear whilst the B-2s were over the area. The parents of Silver Spring, MD are expecting the Maryland Air National Guard to acquire the aircraft, wih a cost of $2.1Bn each. In all seriousness, DC Metro is some of the most patrolled airspace in the country. Several agencies fly helicopter patrols around Silver Spring. [0] https://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lat1d3Zmf91qzdsi5o1_1280.png https://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lat1d3Zmf91qzdsi5o1_1280....
fallinghawks 12y ago
I too had overprotective immigrant parents, yet at age 6 I was walking to elementary school, just a short distance of 4 blocks. Middle school was considerably further at 1.7 miles, and through the woods, but there was never any problem. We were also taking the bus, unaccompanied by parents, around town by age 12. I think also that people are more uninvolved with the people around them these days, especially in metropolitan areas. People don't know their neighbors and don't have the commitment to their neighborhood as in the past. You rarely hear of people verbally disciplining someone else's unruly children, or watching over them, as you might have read in stories from 50 years ago. People now are more likely to stand and watch a crime or an accident, or simply ignore it, rather than get involved. All this implies a greater danger to unaccompanied children.

anon4 12y ago

This is actually a prime business opportunity -- outdoors child-sitting. You'd watch over children and escort them home and to pre-approved locations. More liberal and hands-off parents could allow their children to explore as much as they like, as long as they don't trespass other property. This should also help to create a lot more job openings.

hansrodtang 12y ago
A dog walking service for children?
- ics 12y ago
  Well, https://adlibventures.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/daycare-schoolbus-2.jpg https://adlibventures.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/daycare-sc... I've only seen that in Japan so far but both there and in New York I've seen the long leash where each child is clipped on with a harness. But these are for daycares and school field trips... clearly ripe for disruption. What parents need is an app like Uber for when they just need to go somewhere now...
  - mml 12y ago
    Uber for kids is a fantastic idea (I mean really fantastic, as in, I fantasize about it regularly, usually while driving my kids back and forth). I suspect the liability & trust problems would be insurmountable though. I'd pay up into the high hundreds per month to not have the time-suck of pick up & drop off constantly... Perhaps parents could pool enough money together to actually keep a full-time chauffeur around somehow. Scheduling would be rather dicey though.
    - ics 12y ago
      If 15 parents would pay $3000 per year, they could give one person a $45k/year salary for their services. Somewhere in there is a way to get a TaskRabbit to Uber your kids to their next Meetup. Private daycares exist. Chauffeurs for kids exist for people with enough money, as do parents using Uber for their kids (there was an article here a while back about it). Start with children and then branch out to the elderly and disabled. Call it Chaperone. Piggyback on existing startups so that individuals don't have to be qualified as drivers, caretakers, etc.; their job as chaperones is to ensure that everyone else does their job while mostly just being there. Found this but for at-home babysitters: https://angel.co/chaperone https://angel.co/chaperone Don't know if telling people to "think Tinder" for the UI is the best association though. I am not a parent, but I think we're losing some brightness in our future if we can't resolve trust issues that lie in the way of better services for parents and children. Lots to think about...

mml 12y ago

As a parent myself, I find all of this paranoia completely insane. My daughter and a school friend (8 at the time) walked down a half a block to our neighborhood park here (in the scary city!) to play, and her friends' mother found out and LOST it. It's crippling to children, and unbelievably annoying for adults (need to run into the store for a stick of gum? Gotta unpack the kids and bring them with for the 1 minute transaction, or someone will call CPS!). Here in Minnesota, my theory is that Jacob Wetterling's family and the "news"-mongers are largely to blame. That sad incident of course, was 25+ years ago now, and is still regularly dredged up to scare the pants off of parents. Feh! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Wetterling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Wetterling

ddingus 12y ago

I hope they do. Somehow, a lot of us --maybe a few too many of us, have decided to go both authoritarian and over protective with children. Given how I grew up, this emerging set of norms is disturbing and depressing. One thing I noticed among my peers is those who really got sheltered had a number of common and significant problems later in life, and they all centered on both the rebellion stage, and their exit from "the bubble" they grew up in. Rebelling is common, and for most people, just an ordinary part of coming of age. We get through it, and that's that. For the sheltered kids, particularly those who experienced a very authoritarian up bringing, not only did they rebel, but they often over did it! I'm convinced they overdo it, because the second aspect of this; namely, the sheltering or "bubble" type upbringing really didn't socialize them well enough to cope with basic human realities and diversity, nor did it expose them to the world, it's real limits and risks, not just the safe ones, or invisible ones they didn't see while in their protective bubbles. Many ended up OK, somewhat protective still, but many didn't either. And they continue a bad cycle, perhaps trying harder with their own kids. Some of this comes down to wanting to protect the kids and insure they have all the opportunity possible. Noble, but short sighted, given that same lack of general exposure to the world and social dynamics may well inhibit their ability to exploit those hard won opportunities! Another contributor is the desire to mold the kids, in a sense, insuring they carry some values and norms the parents find important for their reasons. But nobody really asked the kids, did they? In fact, a big part of the sheltering is to keep them from asking too! And that's a crime really. If some value, religion, norm, whatever really does have merit, should it not stand a basic and rational skepticism? Of course it should. More importantly, does it make sense to structure how people grow up in ways that deny them the critical mind needed to actually make those choices for their reasons? There is a lot wrong with this growing norm. Heck, when I grew up, the rules were really basic. Don't get lost, don't get hurt, don't steal, don't fuck with the animals, etc... From there, my peers and I would gather in a meeting place, decide on the adventure for the day and have at it! We quickly learned the world is real, and that real things happen to people in it, and we took care of one another, getting through just fine, despite the fact that on many a weekend some of us could very easily have gotten killed, seriously hurt. We can't do everything for our kids. And I submit we really shouldn't. They need to explore, learn, do, think, play, build, and if they don't, or it's too well managed, that managed experience will clash hard with the real world as they enter it. And the vast majority of them will enter it too. Better to do so eyes wide open, experiences true, minds potent. I also think we are going to pay really hard for this folly too. Who cares for us in our old age? Who will be calling the shots some time from now? They can and should file. More parents should.

_delirium 12y ago

Question on a slightly different setting: in more urban areas with public transport, is it common for kids (past some age) to be allowed to travel places on their own on metros/buses? It's definitely common here (Copenhagen), and from what I gather also fairly common in other European cities, and in Japan. But I have no idea if it is in NYC, SF, or Chicago. I think it's partly normalized here from a certain age because we don't have school buses, and instead kids are expected to take the regular transit. So then it's not a huge stretch for them to take the same buses to piano lessons, friends' houses, etc.

mml 12y ago
In a rare fit of sensibility, Minneapolis public schools stopped bussing highschool kids around. They now get free city bus passes, and our roads aren't (as) clogged as they were with giant yellow kindertransports full of young adults. As a bonus,it exposes random middle-class kids to city busses they might otherwise never consider using.

X-Istence 12y ago

I grew up in The Netherlands (until I was 8) and Switzerland (until I was 12), at age 12 I moved to the US. In The Netherlands me and my friends had quite the range. We were allowed to go down to the soccer field half a mile away, I remember walking to see friends half-way across town. In Switzerland I had a very similar range, and by the time I was 10 I was taking the tram to school (in Basel, other side of the city). I was allowed to roam as much as I pleased so long as I was back home by certain times. I remember spending hours with friends in Basel. When I got to the US I had the same amount of ability to roam around. I am now 27 years old, and I am watching all these parents hover over their kids, and it makes me afraid for society as a whole. All that roaming and being outside and away from the house just made me who I am, not afraid, and gave me a huge sense of self-worth, confidence and self-esteem.

david-given 12y ago
I'm British, but I live in Zürich; it's awesome to see random packs of kids roaming around doing stuff on their own. I think there's two main things which make this possible: firstly, the amazing public transport system, which means that it's basically impossible to get stuck everywhere; also the culture that adults are not scary, which means that they feel comfortable talking to adults (and vice versa). Admittedly, they mostly talk in thickly accented Schweizerdeutsch, which I don't understand a word of, but they're still talking. In the UK it's dangerous for an adult even to make eye contact with a child. Another interesting observation is that packs of children here that I've observed are, IMO, well behaved and polite. I have yet to see anything like the adult/child antagonism that you see in the UK. They're obviously doing something right here, while we're obviously not.
makeitsuckless 12y ago
Kids in the Netherlands have a range of many miles thanks to bicycles. Growing up in the Hague, we didn't only roam the entire width and breadth of the city, but we went for long cycling trips through the dunes and countryside to Wassenaar or Hoek van Holland, about 10 to 15 kilometers out of town. And I wasn't even an adventurous kid, being a nerdy bookworm most of the time.

kzhahou 12y ago

> Police said an officer saw a “homeless subject” who was “eyeing the children.” We should focus on the real problem: nasty filthy homeless mens wanted to steal our precious children! Also, there's no possible way the cop just made that up.

mml 12y ago
Even worse, he might have been having impure thoughts! Clearly, he should be arrested for blatant pre-premeditated pre-crime./s Why was this boob hanging around watching a hobo allegedly ogle unaccompanied children? Clearly said indigent's activity didn't rise to the level of even mild beating, so I'm not sure why officer Friendly even bothered mentioning it, other than to scare the impressionable.
jqm 12y ago
Probably a bunch of "respectable" folks were eying the children as well. Likely thinking "what are those kids doing out here by themselves! it's Dangerous!" Agree with the vast majority here who posit the whole thing has gotten destructive and ridiculous.

jeffmould 12y ago

I grew up less than 10 miles from the area where this is happening. Now granted when I was these kid's age it was the mid-70s to early 80s, but still from the time I was in kindergarten I walked to/from school about a mile each way every day regardless of whether it was sunny, rainy, snowing, whatever. After school I walked through our community to go to friend's houses at the ripe old age of 5 or 6. And on the weekends, kids of all ages were found running around the community from sunrise to sunset. Our parents trusted us and the other members of the community. Yet while our parents were letting us do this just around the corner one of the most notorious abductions in the area took place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon_sisters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon_sisters). So you can't tell me that there were not predators around at that time. IMO, the difference was that instead of calling the police on kids that seemed lost, most parents in the community would ask the kids if they needed help. I don't know where or how the shift occurred, but today it seems we live in a society where everyone wants to pass blame and cares only about themselves. I have two theories why this is occurring. First, the media of today is much different than the past. Today, it seems to me at least, the media has a bad habit of over-sensationalizing every story to pit two sides against one another. This story in particular has created such a havoc in this neighborhood that these kids, and their parents, will never live a "normal" life in that community again. The media has stirred the pot so much that there are now lone individuals that don't agree with these parents that are going to target this family every time they see something they don't like. My second theory is that we live in a society now where people are afraid of their own shadows at times. When I was about 7 or 8 I was skateboarding down a street a couple blocks from my house. I fell and cut my chin wide open requiring stitches. I started crying and walking home. In that time I must have had 4 or 5 different people come up to me to ask if I was alright with one finally giving me a ride home. I believe if this same situation happened today those 4-5 people would have probably just called 911 instead of trying to get involved and help me. They would have done this out of fear of being sued for not helping better. Or sadly there are those individuals in the community now who will label that person as a predator just for helping. Where I live now is a small town where everyone that lives here knows everyone. Kids of all ages run up and down the street at all hours of the day in the summer. We have a strong local police force that is always actively community policing and knows everyone that lives in the community. On the other hand it is a tourist town and during the summer the population swells drastically (we go from about 300 residents to well over 10,000), yet nothing changes. People look out for each other. More importantly, we also don't have any local major media outlets that report regularly on news in our area. And because it is a resort area where there is fear if bad things are reported it will drive tourism away, the media doesn't tend to report on all that occurs. Yet nothing bad happens that is out of the ordinary. I mean we have our increased bar fights, DUIs, thefts, and on occasion there has been a murder, but still I can wake up on a nice day and hear kids running around the street playing. No one calls the police on other people's kids. Even high school house parties go unreported as long as the kids don't violate parking laws or destroy someone else's property. And even if they do the party is usually just broken up, people sent on their way, and damages worked out between the parents.

sanderjd 12y ago

Anybody have the opposite perspective on this? Supposedly, "most people" nowadays think that children should not be allowed to roam, but I only ever hear from people who think that's ridiculous. For instance, I just scrolled the comments here and they are literally 100% "I can't believe how paranoid we've become". The conversation I read and hear on this is so one-sided that I really have no sense for what the argument of the other side even is.

sneak 12y ago
I think this is just media sensationalist bullshit. You wouldn't hire a ten year old to babysit your six year old. End of story.
- abfan1127 12y ago
  under particular circumstances, yes I would. If my 10 year old was responsible and my 6 year old was responsive to my 10 year old's responsibility, I'd let them go down the street to the park. What's sensationalist bullshit is the garbage the police are spouting and the garbage CPS will be spouting as they take kids from their parents. They seem to think the foster care system will do a better job of raising the kids than these parents how have raised kids to be able to play at the park unattended.
- mml 12y ago
  You're completely right. I wouldn't pay a 10 year old, but I'd have one watch my kids for a bit while I nip down to the store.
- CapitalistCartr 12y ago
  I routinely rode my bike around the neighborhood at that age. On Saturday, I'd make my own bowl of cereal for breakfast, then ride around until I found my friends grouped on their bikes and we'd hang out as long as we wanted or until supper at 5:00 PM sharp (don't be late!). Ten years old is not an infant, and can responsibly navigate their own neighborhood if trained and allowed to learn.
- zeroonetwothree 12y ago

upofadown 12y ago

How can kids get to school in such an environment? They are not old enough to drive after all...

tw04 12y ago

They were found in a parking garage where a homeless man was "eyeing the children"? So the police officer got the homeless man's information, right? Oh, no, no evidence to back up his story? THAT'S SHOCKING! Police NEVER lie in order to paint the story they want, EVER!

mindfulgeek 12y ago

We're so obsessed as a society on making life "easy" for our kids that we completely remove our children's ability to fend for themselves in the real world. These parents were doing their children a service and trying to break free from the overprotective craziness that has everyone keeping their kids inside. And the response they received is crazy. As if its not hard enough to go against the grain and give your kids more independence, now there is precedence that if you do, you may be at risk. Our jobs as parents is not to protect kids from life, but to give them the tools to navigate it. Part of giving them tools is giving them the opportunity to fail and learn from it. The rates of depression, suicide, bullying and drug use have been climbing higher and higher -- we're not helping our kids stay safe, we're keeping them from gaining wisdom. Eventually it will change, though I suspect things will get worse before they get better... change comes when the pain of staying the same is too great -- we're all too comfortable keeping our kids inside.

monk_e_boy 12y ago
It opens your eyes travelling to other countries, different rules and different social norms. Most places have kids running wild and seem to be enjoying themselves. Obviously there is risk, but 99.99% of adults would go to a childs aid if anything happened. But there is always one overprotective person in a position of power who delights in taking away some freedom in the name of security. It's hard to argue with someone when they are making kids safer... <cue dramatic music - dun dun duuun> but at what cost.

powertower 12y ago

I read that, on average, it would take 700,000 years for a child sitting on a bench in the park (unaccompanied) to get kidnapped.

protomyth 12y ago

So, all crime stats are down since the 70's when I grew up, we have more children that are out of shape, and children are no longer allowed to play outside or go to the park unattended. Yeah, we are seriously stupid and screwed. I guess the "hey, check out that hill, wonder how far it is to bike there?" mentality in children is long, long gone.

shit_parade2 12y ago

“We must ask ourselves how we reached the point where a parent’s biggest fear is that government officials will literally seize our children off the streets as they walk in our neighborhoods,” he said. I think the quote speaks for itself.

api 12y ago

Good. Children today are insanely over supervised. You can't individuate in the presence of an authority figure.

junto 12y ago

In today's world The Goonies would never happen!

underwater 12y ago

They chose to let their kids go out unattended. So obviously they accepted that bad things might happen. And something bad did happen. It seems like the kids learned a valuable lesson - the police may stop and detain you and there is not a whole lot you can do. But now the parents are saying they get to pick and chose which consequences are OK. You can't have it both ways.

bones6 12y ago
My guess is that they would sue the Post Office if a postal worker ran them down too.

graycat 12y ago

Let's see: (1) Fifth grade, I got a trumpet so rode the city bus downtown, 7 miles, to music lessons. (2) Once also downtown there was a movie I wanted to see so got a little extra cash and went to the movie after the music lesson. (3) About then on radio I heard Beethoven's 7th Symphony. So, when the NY Phil came to town, I got a ticket and rode the bus, right, to downtown, 7 miles away. (4) After school, I did what I wanted, went exploring. (5) Soon I got a bicycle so rode it to and from school and otherwise was GONE on my bicycle, commonly rode five miles away, once about 10 miles to the next state. (6) When about 11, visited a friend my age in the country. He had a motorcycle, and we went "two up" for miles and miles. Onion solution for the threat of abduction and harassment of children in MD, not entirely in jest: Put the MD police and CPS in diapers in bed overnight, and in the morning have them write 500 times "I will not be a fool". Have all their travels out of house or office supervised with a leash and a GPS ankle bracelet. Four days a week have them wear an orange jump suit with lettering "I am a fool" and work on their knees with a toothbrush washing the sidewalks. For the next year, have them do 15 minute check ins with actually competent adult supervision. Much simpler solution: Drastically cut the budgets of the police and CPS. Likely actual solution: Have the MD police and CPS lose a big law suit, and have that legal case provide cover for the bloodless bureaucrats that put up with such nonsense to tell the hysterical busy-bodies to cool it.

JohnTHaller 12y ago

"free-range parenting". Or, in the vernacular of all previous generations, "parenting".