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> Apple indicated that this issue required a substantial amount of changes on their side, and that they will not back port the fix to 10.9.x and older. What?

> Apple indicated that this issue required a substantial amount of changes on their side, and that they will not back port the fix to 10.9.x and older. What? So all OS X boxes are simply broken, privileges-wise, if they're not on 10.10?

danielweber 12y ago
Apple's model customer is one who upgrades often. If you want solid support for old products, stick with Microsoft, and accept that their products can be clunkier because of deliberate choices to maintain backwards-compatibility.
- e40 12y ago
  What about developers that need to support customers on older systems?
  - ryanlol 12y ago
    Many don't.
  - plorkyeran 12y ago
    You basically need VMs for every version of OS X you want to support, and need to keep copies of the old OS X SDKs since Apple seems not to test that newer ones will continue to work despite superficially supporting choosing a target version. Most developers don't bother, as Apple has successfully made it quite difficult.
- matt4077 12y ago
  To be fair, OS X updates are free and usually run well even on 5+ years old hardware. OS X has kinda gone the way of Chrome, with most users on the newest version.
  - toong 12y ago
    They are now. I remember buying upgrades ?
  - JustSomeNobody 12y ago
    To be even more fair, there's been a number of issues with Yosemite that make some of us want to stick with Mavericks. Just because something is free doesn't make it better.
    - gabeio 12y ago
      Just because it's paid doesn't make it better either.
    - thebouv 12y ago
      I'm with you on this; I can't leave Mavericks just yet. Every colleague I have that's moved on has had numerous issues with their machine. And now this crap. Ugh.
      - EC1 12y ago
        What kind of issues? I've literally noticed no differences besides UI.
        bdcravens 12y ago
        Random bugginess. When I came into office, plugged my machine into TB display (have one at home, so should be no issue), I got nothing but black. Could get a login prompt, and even closing lid kept backlight on. Only solution was a hard reboot.
        EC1 12y ago
        Oh true. I just realized I have the same issue. I connect my macbook to my hengedock which has 3 monitors attached. If I disconnect my macbook and hook up my tv via hdmi, I plug it into my hengedock and my 3rd monitor is just black while plugged into that hdmi port. I always restart it after watching tv and then plugging my monitors to get it to work.
- driverdan 12y ago
  Or LTS versions of Linux.
- tsieling 12y ago
  > Apple's model customer is one who upgrades often. I don't know any tech company that doesn't have that idea of a model customer :) To their credit, I can run the latest on a pretty old Mac Mini at home. It's not as fast as it used to be, but it is supported long after the form factor of the Mini has undergone big changes. I don't consider myself being squeezed to upgrade.
  - s_q_b 12y ago
    I booted up one of those G3 candy colored clamshell iBooks from the early 2000s recently. Not only did start flawlessly, it found and connected to the WiFi, and actually loaded Google on Internet Explorer for Mac.
    - 72deluxe 12y ago
      Out of interest, did it display the results pages from Google alright? Or was the CSS and JavaScript etc. not recognised? Was it usable, speedwise, as a machine?
      - s_q_b 12y ago
        As a word processor, typing out some code, or as a spreadsheet machine, yes, it was perfectly serviceable. It worked with very little of the modern web, however.
      - s_q_b 12y ago
        To answer your question about Google specifically, yes, it did work fine for search. It wasn't even that slow.
- s_q_b 12y ago
  Or your IT department could force you to use a Golden Master of 10.9, and not let you update.
- n_blom 12y ago
  Holy Apple can't be wrong. Microsoft bad bad and clunky. We're talking about a security issue!
- gurkendoktor 12y ago
  > If you want solid support for old products, stick with Microsoft, and accept that their products can be clunkier because of deliberate choices to maintain backwards-compatibility. It's not only about support for "old" products, it's also about having a roadmap to begin with. It used to be common wisdom that Apple releases major updates for the current version of OS X, and security fixes for the last two versions. Well, that common wisdom is outdated now. Also, backwards compatibility and security fixes are not really the same, and I'd say that the correlation between backwards compatibility and software quality is completely overrated. I know I'd rather trust my life to Windows 7 (the epitome of conservative OS design) than to OS X 10.10 or iOS 8 (speaking as an iOS developer). In raw numbers, 45% of OS X users are now vulnerable (and probably don't even know about it), and Apple doesn't care. That's an insane number. And I thought not patching the ~10% iPhone 4 in the wild was dangerous!
myared 12y ago
What better way to encourage people to upgrade.
- hrayr 12y ago
  or to abandon your product
  - 1amzave 12y ago
    After getting more and more tired of Apple's generally obnoxious behavior over the last few years I'm wondering which straw will be the last for me before doing exactly that. I'm pretty seriously considering wiping OSX off my MBP and running some variety of Linux on it at this point, though regrettably I might still be forced to consider them for future hardware purchases on account of the fact that I don't think I've ever encountered a non-Apple laptop that seemed worthwhile (in terms of general construction and build quality).
    - Yetanfou 12y ago
      In danger of being accused of flogging deceased equines I can but point at the T42p ThinkPad which I'm typing this message on for an example of a device which fits that premise: solid hardware and a generally well though-out design. It is 11 years old, but sports a screen which comes remarkably close to the more recent Apple offerings. It also runs the latest software flawlessly, as long as that latest software is a recent Linux distribution. It has a keyboard which Apple-adepts can only dream about. Ports aplenty, two batteries or drives or whatnots, no problem, ~8 hours on a single battery charge when using the oddly shaped 'extended' battery. An additional bonus is that you can get these things for free if you know where to look. Of course, being 11 years old it also has its drawbacks. It won't fit more than 2GB of RAM. It is based around a single-core Pentium M which generally performs fine but shows its age mostly when meeting Javascript-hobbled web-related things. BUT... and this is one of the main reasons why I use older hardware... if you develop software on this machine, and it works fine on that machine, it'll run circles around the stuff your neighbour made on his latest FlitzBang Fruitmachine. It'll but cause a blip on the CPU meter where his (or her, your choice) result maxes it out. It'll use memory like it was rationed, not like it was on sale. Of course you can not develop software for the dark side on this older hardware. A small loss, in my opinion.
JustSomeNobody 12y ago
If nothing else, they should feel a moral obligation to fix it in previous versions.
z-e-r-o 12y ago
They even released "Security Update 2015-004" at the same time, including many updates for 10.8 and 10.9, but not the admin framework. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204659 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204659
- zatkin 12y ago
  The first item on their list of patches is this vulnerability.
  - firebones 12y ago
    ...and it says the admin framework fix only applies to 10.10 to 10.10.2, which was his point--it doesn't fix 10.8 to 10.9 like many of the other security update features do.
akerl_ 12y ago
Looks like they've released patches for Mavericks and Mountain Lion as well: https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1803 https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1803 https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1802 https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1802
- untog 12y ago
  Unfortunately this fix is apparently not included.
  - dsjoerg 12y ago
    What makes you say that?
    - diminoten 12y ago
      The submitted article says so. In fact, I quoted the relevant sentence in an above comment.
      - w0utert 12y ago
        Interestingly, the release notes for the 2015-004 patch that includes the fix specifically mention it is also available for Mavericks and Mountain Lion. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222
        diminoten 12y ago
        No it doesn't: from https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204659 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204659: > Admin Framework > Available for: OS X Yosemite v10.10 to v10.10.2 > Impact: A process may gain admin privileges without properly authenticating Description: An issue existed when checking XPC entitlements. This issue was addressed with improved entitlement checking. > CVE-ID > CVE-2015-1130 : Emil Kvarnhammar at TrueSec
        12y ago
olefoo 12y ago
That's how I read it. And that's why I'm making plans to migrate away from Apple Desktop.
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  To what though? All the other offerings don't seem at the same state, unless Windows 10 can rescue us all? I notice that Windows 10 has had new bits shoe-horned in (a new settings screen!) whilst still keeping ALL the old stuff there (MMC as written in 1998? Control Panel is still there despite this new Settings page, duplication much? None of the icons match etc. etc. what a hodgepodge)
  - olefoo 12y ago
    In my case Linux. Ubuntu on a macbook pro is reasonably comparable. And the Dell offerings are looking damn good. It would be nice to have a tiling window manager too.

danielweber 12y ago

Apple's model customer is one who upgrades often. If you want solid support for old products, stick with Microsoft, and accept that their products can be clunkier because of deliberate choices to maintain backwards-compatibility.

e40 12y ago
What about developers that need to support customers on older systems?
- ryanlol 12y ago
  Many don't.
- plorkyeran 12y ago
  You basically need VMs for every version of OS X you want to support, and need to keep copies of the old OS X SDKs since Apple seems not to test that newer ones will continue to work despite superficially supporting choosing a target version. Most developers don't bother, as Apple has successfully made it quite difficult.
matt4077 12y ago
To be fair, OS X updates are free and usually run well even on 5+ years old hardware. OS X has kinda gone the way of Chrome, with most users on the newest version.
- toong 12y ago
  They are now. I remember buying upgrades ?
- JustSomeNobody 12y ago
  To be even more fair, there's been a number of issues with Yosemite that make some of us want to stick with Mavericks. Just because something is free doesn't make it better.
  - gabeio 12y ago
    Just because it's paid doesn't make it better either.
  - thebouv 12y ago
    I'm with you on this; I can't leave Mavericks just yet. Every colleague I have that's moved on has had numerous issues with their machine. And now this crap. Ugh.
    - EC1 12y ago
      What kind of issues? I've literally noticed no differences besides UI.
      - bdcravens 12y ago
        Random bugginess. When I came into office, plugged my machine into TB display (have one at home, so should be no issue), I got nothing but black. Could get a login prompt, and even closing lid kept backlight on. Only solution was a hard reboot.
        EC1 12y ago
        Oh true. I just realized I have the same issue. I connect my macbook to my hengedock which has 3 monitors attached. If I disconnect my macbook and hook up my tv via hdmi, I plug it into my hengedock and my 3rd monitor is just black while plugged into that hdmi port. I always restart it after watching tv and then plugging my monitors to get it to work.
driverdan 12y ago
Or LTS versions of Linux.
tsieling 12y ago
> Apple's model customer is one who upgrades often. I don't know any tech company that doesn't have that idea of a model customer :) To their credit, I can run the latest on a pretty old Mac Mini at home. It's not as fast as it used to be, but it is supported long after the form factor of the Mini has undergone big changes. I don't consider myself being squeezed to upgrade.
- s_q_b 12y ago
  I booted up one of those G3 candy colored clamshell iBooks from the early 2000s recently. Not only did start flawlessly, it found and connected to the WiFi, and actually loaded Google on Internet Explorer for Mac.
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    Out of interest, did it display the results pages from Google alright? Or was the CSS and JavaScript etc. not recognised? Was it usable, speedwise, as a machine?
    - s_q_b 12y ago
      As a word processor, typing out some code, or as a spreadsheet machine, yes, it was perfectly serviceable. It worked with very little of the modern web, however.
    - s_q_b 12y ago
      To answer your question about Google specifically, yes, it did work fine for search. It wasn't even that slow.
s_q_b 12y ago
Or your IT department could force you to use a Golden Master of 10.9, and not let you update.
n_blom 12y ago
Holy Apple can't be wrong. Microsoft bad bad and clunky. We're talking about a security issue!
gurkendoktor 12y ago
> If you want solid support for old products, stick with Microsoft, and accept that their products can be clunkier because of deliberate choices to maintain backwards-compatibility. It's not only about support for "old" products, it's also about having a roadmap to begin with. It used to be common wisdom that Apple releases major updates for the current version of OS X, and security fixes for the last two versions. Well, that common wisdom is outdated now. Also, backwards compatibility and security fixes are not really the same, and I'd say that the correlation between backwards compatibility and software quality is completely overrated. I know I'd rather trust my life to Windows 7 (the epitome of conservative OS design) than to OS X 10.10 or iOS 8 (speaking as an iOS developer). In raw numbers, 45% of OS X users are now vulnerable (and probably don't even know about it), and Apple doesn't care. That's an insane number. And I thought not patching the ~10% iPhone 4 in the wild was dangerous!

myared 12y ago

What better way to encourage people to upgrade.

hrayr 12y ago
or to abandon your product
- 1amzave 12y ago
  After getting more and more tired of Apple's generally obnoxious behavior over the last few years I'm wondering which straw will be the last for me before doing exactly that. I'm pretty seriously considering wiping OSX off my MBP and running some variety of Linux on it at this point, though regrettably I might still be forced to consider them for future hardware purchases on account of the fact that I don't think I've ever encountered a non-Apple laptop that seemed worthwhile (in terms of general construction and build quality).
  - Yetanfou 12y ago
    In danger of being accused of flogging deceased equines I can but point at the T42p ThinkPad which I'm typing this message on for an example of a device which fits that premise: solid hardware and a generally well though-out design. It is 11 years old, but sports a screen which comes remarkably close to the more recent Apple offerings. It also runs the latest software flawlessly, as long as that latest software is a recent Linux distribution. It has a keyboard which Apple-adepts can only dream about. Ports aplenty, two batteries or drives or whatnots, no problem, ~8 hours on a single battery charge when using the oddly shaped 'extended' battery. An additional bonus is that you can get these things for free if you know where to look. Of course, being 11 years old it also has its drawbacks. It won't fit more than 2GB of RAM. It is based around a single-core Pentium M which generally performs fine but shows its age mostly when meeting Javascript-hobbled web-related things. BUT... and this is one of the main reasons why I use older hardware... if you develop software on this machine, and it works fine on that machine, it'll run circles around the stuff your neighbour made on his latest FlitzBang Fruitmachine. It'll but cause a blip on the CPU meter where his (or her, your choice) result maxes it out. It'll use memory like it was rationed, not like it was on sale. Of course you can not develop software for the dark side on this older hardware. A small loss, in my opinion.

JustSomeNobody 12y ago

If nothing else, they should feel a moral obligation to fix it in previous versions.

z-e-r-o 12y ago

They even released "Security Update 2015-004" at the same time, including many updates for 10.8 and 10.9, but not the admin framework. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204659 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204659

zatkin 12y ago
The first item on their list of patches is this vulnerability.
- firebones 12y ago
  ...and it says the admin framework fix only applies to 10.10 to 10.10.2, which was his point--it doesn't fix 10.8 to 10.9 like many of the other security update features do.

akerl_ 12y ago

Looks like they've released patches for Mavericks and Mountain Lion as well: https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1803 https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1803 https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1802 https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1802

untog 12y ago
Unfortunately this fix is apparently not included.
- dsjoerg 12y ago
  What makes you say that?
  - diminoten 12y ago
    The submitted article says so. In fact, I quoted the relevant sentence in an above comment.
    - w0utert 12y ago
      Interestingly, the release notes for the 2015-004 patch that includes the fix specifically mention it is also available for Mavericks and Mountain Lion. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222
      - diminoten 12y ago
        No it doesn't: from https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204659 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204659: > Admin Framework > Available for: OS X Yosemite v10.10 to v10.10.2 > Impact: A process may gain admin privileges without properly authenticating Description: An issue existed when checking XPC entitlements. This issue was addressed with improved entitlement checking. > CVE-ID > CVE-2015-1130 : Emil Kvarnhammar at TrueSec
        12y ago

olefoo 12y ago

That's how I read it. And that's why I'm making plans to migrate away from Apple Desktop.

72deluxe 12y ago
To what though? All the other offerings don't seem at the same state, unless Windows 10 can rescue us all? I notice that Windows 10 has had new bits shoe-horned in (a new settings screen!) whilst still keeping ALL the old stuff there (MMC as written in 1998? Control Panel is still there despite this new Settings page, duplication much? None of the icons match etc. etc. what a hodgepodge)
- olefoo 12y ago
  In my case Linux. Ubuntu on a macbook pro is reasonably comparable. And the Dell offerings are looking damn good. It would be nice to have a tiling window manager too.