6 ms·

When will we legalize the hard drugs? Treating drug users is better than criminalizing them. I always compare drugs being illegal to the alcohol ban in the 1930

by acd 12y ago

When will we legalize the hard drugs? Treating drug users is better than criminalizing them. I always compare drugs being illegal to the alcohol ban in the 1930s and the mafia like Alcopone that rose during that time. Legalizing all drugs is the way forward. Drug money is corrupting police and financing weapons for terror organizations.

noir_lord 12y ago
> Treating drug users is better than criminalizing them. For the drug user and possibly society, not better for the Law Enforcement, Prison Guard and private corporations who run them though.
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  So, free drugs for everyone??
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  This meme needs to die. If someone says "the prison corporations are keeping drugs illegal" it just means they don't know what they are talking about. The Unions have much more power but it is not even them keeping drugs illegal, although they don't mind.
  - researcher88 12y ago
    Can you elaborate? Private prisons do spend millions lobbying- http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/06/23/251363/cca-geogroup-prison-industry/ http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/06/23/251363/cca-geogr...
  - Lorento 12y ago
    Absolutely. Hard drugs are illegal in nearly every country, most of which don't have private prisons. Hard drugs are illegal because most people think they should be. The blame (or credit) lies with the majority.
    - girvo 12y ago
      I agree. Frankly, I think the majority of the world seems to want drugs, with a couple of exceptions here and there depending on the country in question, banned. Why this is, I'm unsure in some case, and very clear in others. The problem I find is treating all drugs the same: they're quite obviously all different, so they should be treated different, but then we lose the easy catch-phrases of "Ban drugs!" or "Legalise drugs!". A shame, really.
      - wavefunction 12y ago
        I don't agree with your assessment that the majority of the world wants drugs banned. Perhaps a majority of the governments and the powerful interests in these countries but the widespread use of drugs among all peoples everywhere shows that the majority of the world wants drugs, and not to have them banned.
    - crazypyro 12y ago
      Many of the countries were coerced into banning drugs with international treaties that were supported heavily by the United States. Drugs have been illegal for much less of civilized history than they've been legal. Also there is the problem of misinformation that was actively spread by the most powerful entities in the world, nation states. I think its very wrong to blame the majority when the average citizen has no control over international drug treaties from 40-50 years ago.
  - bunderbunder 12y ago
    Perhaps you should take a look at what the prison corporations themselves have to say on the subject. For example, see this article: http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/22/4-industries-getting-rich-off-the-drug-w/2 http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/22/4-industries-getting-r...
brazzy 12y ago
> Treating drug users is better than criminalizing them. Not having them become drug users in the first place would be even better. Let's not forget that a lot of drugs really are seriously harmful Criminalizing drug use is fucking stupid, sure, but I also really don't want to have big companies spend big advertising budgets on making people addicts.
- Nursie 12y ago
  >> I also really don't want to have big companies spend big advertising budgets on making people addicts. I don't want that either, but what I would really like is if we could find a way to encourage our massive pharmacological sector, in the private and public spheres, to research and produce less harmful recreational drugs. The problem we'd have if we just de-regulated to encourage this is that there would be a market incentive to produce things that are more addictive.
- doikor 12y ago
  Easy solution would be something like what we have here in Finland with alcohol. Allow sales but ban all marketing. There done.
  - higherpurpose 12y ago
    Agreed that this should be the solution. Let's not repeat another century of tobacco deaths. Yet here we are with companies advertising their their food contains marijuana or that smoking marijuana is "cool" (sound familiar?).
    - joshstrange 12y ago
      I'm all for banning ads for drugs (alcohol is a drug) and I support plain packaging for cigs (and other drugs) but let's not compare tobacco to weed as 1:1's. Marijuana appears to have REAL medical uses unlike tobacco. I know, I know there was a time where "doctors" said tobacco was fine for you or even good for you [0] but I don't feel like it's a fair comparison to what doctors are saying today about weed. I'd like to think we've gotten better as a planet about filtering out quack-claims about things like this. No doubt there are people claiming weed to be the end-all-be-all, cure-all drug and I agree those people are crazy or seriously misinformed but I do believe there are proven, legitimate uses of marijuana in regards to medicine and the medical profession. [0] http://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/news/print/hemonc-today/%7B241d62a7-fe6e-4c5b-9fed-a33cc6e4bd7c%7D/cigarettes-were-once-physician-tested-approved http://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/news/print/hemonc-...
jokoon 12y ago
Treating users has a cost, and while there already are problems with healthcare, I don't know if it's possible to spend money to treat users. taxpayers would moan. A more viable solution would be to license hard drugs to pharmacists, and notify health department and non-profits so that they can help users. I agree that it's an error to criminalize them, but you should also discourage people to use hard drugs like heroin and meth. Putting a frame around the use of drugs is a good idea, but it's also important for public health to not send a mixed message. Obsoleting the dealer is one thing, but don't forget the users.
- melling 12y ago
  We are already paying both directly and indirectly with drug enforcement costs, immigration, etc. If Mexico, for example, becomes a less violent country, and the economy grows, fewer people will cross the border. In fact, more Americans would retire in Central America if some of those counties stabilized.
  - sogen 12y ago
    not so sure, gangs are becoming MORE violent, affecting the general population: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9348322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9348322
- donkeyd 12y ago
  > Treating users has a cost "[In 2012] the annual average taxpayer cost in these states was $31,286 per inmate." If you start treating people you need less law enforcement and you get less inmates. And then you haven't even considered the less obvious damage that drug related convictions cause, like not being able to find a job and relying on welfare. Children of convicted drug abusers growing up in a bad environment and being more vulnerable to addiction and crime. Most arguments against decriminalization are extremely short sighted, just look at the positive effect it's having in Portugal. Drug use might not be severely affected, but the surrounding factors are slowly improving: http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-...
- deleted 12y ago
mda 12y ago
Heroin addiction is very difficult to treat.
bayesianhorse 12y ago
There's enough resistance to legalizing Marijuana. Let's see how that goes, first. Many ethical issues have to be solved first. Several hard drugs, for example heroin, methamphetamines and crack, are almost impossible to use without "abuse". So you have companies selling this stuff to people so they can harm themselves. It will be tough to make these sales a better ethical choice than banning these drugs.
kirsebaer 12y ago
Most people who use alcohol are not addicted. In the same way, most people who use other drugs, like methamphetamine and cocaine, are not addicted and do not need or want "treatment".

by acd 12y ago

noir_lord 12y ago

> Treating drug users is better than criminalizing them. For the drug user and possibly society, not better for the Law Enforcement, Prison Guard and private corporations who run them though.

pbhjpbhj 12y ago
So, free drugs for everyone??
happyscrappy 12y ago
This meme needs to die. If someone says "the prison corporations are keeping drugs illegal" it just means they don't know what they are talking about. The Unions have much more power but it is not even them keeping drugs illegal, although they don't mind.
- researcher88 12y ago
  Can you elaborate? Private prisons do spend millions lobbying- http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/06/23/251363/cca-geogroup-prison-industry/ http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/06/23/251363/cca-geogr...
- Lorento 12y ago
  Absolutely. Hard drugs are illegal in nearly every country, most of which don't have private prisons. Hard drugs are illegal because most people think they should be. The blame (or credit) lies with the majority.
  - girvo 12y ago
    I agree. Frankly, I think the majority of the world seems to want drugs, with a couple of exceptions here and there depending on the country in question, banned. Why this is, I'm unsure in some case, and very clear in others. The problem I find is treating all drugs the same: they're quite obviously all different, so they should be treated different, but then we lose the easy catch-phrases of "Ban drugs!" or "Legalise drugs!". A shame, really.
    - wavefunction 12y ago
      I don't agree with your assessment that the majority of the world wants drugs banned. Perhaps a majority of the governments and the powerful interests in these countries but the widespread use of drugs among all peoples everywhere shows that the majority of the world wants drugs, and not to have them banned.
  - crazypyro 12y ago
    Many of the countries were coerced into banning drugs with international treaties that were supported heavily by the United States. Drugs have been illegal for much less of civilized history than they've been legal. Also there is the problem of misinformation that was actively spread by the most powerful entities in the world, nation states. I think its very wrong to blame the majority when the average citizen has no control over international drug treaties from 40-50 years ago.
- bunderbunder 12y ago
  Perhaps you should take a look at what the prison corporations themselves have to say on the subject. For example, see this article: http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/22/4-industries-getting-rich-off-the-drug-w/2 http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/22/4-industries-getting-r...

brazzy 12y ago

> Treating drug users is better than criminalizing them. Not having them become drug users in the first place would be even better. Let's not forget that a lot of drugs really are seriously harmful Criminalizing drug use is fucking stupid, sure, but I also really don't want to have big companies spend big advertising budgets on making people addicts.

Nursie 12y ago
>> I also really don't want to have big companies spend big advertising budgets on making people addicts. I don't want that either, but what I would really like is if we could find a way to encourage our massive pharmacological sector, in the private and public spheres, to research and produce less harmful recreational drugs. The problem we'd have if we just de-regulated to encourage this is that there would be a market incentive to produce things that are more addictive.
doikor 12y ago
Easy solution would be something like what we have here in Finland with alcohol. Allow sales but ban all marketing. There done.
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  Agreed that this should be the solution. Let's not repeat another century of tobacco deaths. Yet here we are with companies advertising their their food contains marijuana or that smoking marijuana is "cool" (sound familiar?).
  - joshstrange 12y ago
    I'm all for banning ads for drugs (alcohol is a drug) and I support plain packaging for cigs (and other drugs) but let's not compare tobacco to weed as 1:1's. Marijuana appears to have REAL medical uses unlike tobacco. I know, I know there was a time where "doctors" said tobacco was fine for you or even good for you [0] but I don't feel like it's a fair comparison to what doctors are saying today about weed. I'd like to think we've gotten better as a planet about filtering out quack-claims about things like this. No doubt there are people claiming weed to be the end-all-be-all, cure-all drug and I agree those people are crazy or seriously misinformed but I do believe there are proven, legitimate uses of marijuana in regards to medicine and the medical profession. [0] http://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/news/print/hemonc-today/%7B241d62a7-fe6e-4c5b-9fed-a33cc6e4bd7c%7D/cigarettes-were-once-physician-tested-approved http://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/news/print/hemonc-...

jokoon 12y ago

Treating users has a cost, and while there already are problems with healthcare, I don't know if it's possible to spend money to treat users. taxpayers would moan. A more viable solution would be to license hard drugs to pharmacists, and notify health department and non-profits so that they can help users. I agree that it's an error to criminalize them, but you should also discourage people to use hard drugs like heroin and meth. Putting a frame around the use of drugs is a good idea, but it's also important for public health to not send a mixed message. Obsoleting the dealer is one thing, but don't forget the users.

melling 12y ago
We are already paying both directly and indirectly with drug enforcement costs, immigration, etc. If Mexico, for example, becomes a less violent country, and the economy grows, fewer people will cross the border. In fact, more Americans would retire in Central America if some of those counties stabilized.
- sogen 12y ago
  not so sure, gangs are becoming MORE violent, affecting the general population: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9348322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9348322
donkeyd 12y ago
> Treating users has a cost "[In 2012] the annual average taxpayer cost in these states was $31,286 per inmate." If you start treating people you need less law enforcement and you get less inmates. And then you haven't even considered the less obvious damage that drug related convictions cause, like not being able to find a job and relying on welfare. Children of convicted drug abusers growing up in a bad environment and being more vulnerable to addiction and crime. Most arguments against decriminalization are extremely short sighted, just look at the positive effect it's having in Portugal. Drug use might not be severely affected, but the surrounding factors are slowly improving: http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-...
deleted 12y ago

mda 12y ago

Heroin addiction is very difficult to treat.

bayesianhorse 12y ago

There's enough resistance to legalizing Marijuana. Let's see how that goes, first. Many ethical issues have to be solved first. Several hard drugs, for example heroin, methamphetamines and crack, are almost impossible to use without "abuse". So you have companies selling this stuff to people so they can harm themselves. It will be tough to make these sales a better ethical choice than banning these drugs.

kirsebaer 12y ago

Most people who use alcohol are not addicted. In the same way, most people who use other drugs, like methamphetamine and cocaine, are not addicted and do not need or want "treatment".