8 ms·

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

by tsotha 12y ago

Daishiman 12y ago
> According to the DAAD, half of foreign students getting a degree in Germany will stay. That's not just in the short term either — 40 percent of students plan on remaining for at least 10 years. In the U.S., only 12 percent of international students opt to stay for even one year That probably makes financial sense. Of course, it doesn't scale, but for the number of people studying right now it's probably a net benefit.
- yandie 12y ago
  US Visa system is not very friendly to foreign students either.
  - spiritplumber 12y ago
    Yeah. Right now the US offers its educational infrastructure to foreigners to study in, and then destroys most of the good will that this generates in the student by basically kicking them out after graduation. Not sure how this makes sense from either a business or a PR standpoint.
    - anon4 12y ago
      I'm wondering if creating per-state Visas would help this. States that want to be more open to foreigners could potentially fast-track such visas, but getting a full USA citizenship would require jumping through more hoops.
      - eru 12y ago
        That sounds like an excellent idea. I wonder what political forces would oppose this?
- jsonne 12y ago
  Germany has an abysmal fertility rate. It's probably in their best interest to attract young educated workers with subsidized college.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
jacalata 12y ago
From the article: >Germany wants these international students here, even though their taxpayers foot the bill. >“Germany is not a country that's growing,” Malone says. “Its population is not growing. They need people, they need immigrants. They want to be a migration country.” >Think about it this way: it’s a global game of collecting talent. All of these students are the trading cards, and the collectors are countries. If a country collects more talent, they'll have an influx of new ideas, new businesses and a better economy.
- clusterbits 12y ago
  True. There is big discussion on how to pay benefits in the future and how to stay competitive in global markets. To me the only way to solve this two problems is to attract smart people from foreign countries.
  - sz4kerto 12y ago
    Look at Singapore, where 40% of the population is immigrant.
- adventured 12y ago
  I completely get the premise of drawing talent. I don't agree with the concerns over population numbers itself. You see this fear from Japan, Germany, and much of Europe. Entering into an age that will be dominated by robotics, greater general automation, artificial intelligence, etc., having more people across the board will not be a net benefit. Germany is worrying about this at exactly the wrong time. Germany has vastly expanded their economy since 1970, while adding zero additional people. They'll be able to do exactly the same thing over the next 40 years by leveraging the incredible productivity gains that are inbound right now. No population growth is necessary or desirable; if Germany holds its population steady, and increases economic output through greater productivity, they'll greatly improve the odds that the median standard of living will increase in line.
  - jvienna 12y ago
    The intention in germany is much more to try to keep the population stable (it is currently decreasing). The current development is somewhat frightening regard the german pension insurance system. For a comparison see: http://populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/ http://populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/ http://populationpyramid.net/germany/ http://populationpyramid.net/germany/
seren 12y ago
Educating someone from 1 to 20 is not free either. Being able to attract educated people is historically a big competitive advantage of the USA. It is better to get someone who has already graduated, but getting someone about to graduate and contribute to the economy is not bad either.
omegaham 12y ago
They'll make it back with the increased business. You're having a large number of people come to Germany, make friendships, and learn the language. Some will stay. Some will do business with German companies even when they move back to the US. Also, the program is selective, which means that you're hopefully only grabbing decent people and not riffraff. This further maximizes your return.
- davidw 12y ago
  I think riffraff went to the university here in Italy: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=riffraff https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=riffraff :-)
cJ0th 12y ago
I don't think it is free for foreigners. It is just that those fees you have to pay (maybe a few hundred Euros per term[0]) are nothing compared to what it costs to attend an US university. However, since more and more Germans want to go to uni some fields of study are jammed with students in recent years. This in turn means that the quality of education goes down (for example: not enough capacities for tutors and not enough actual seats for students) So from that perspective it doesn't make sense for German taxpayers. If capacities are already stressed getting more students doesn't help. On a more human level it is probably beneficial when Germans and Americans form more friendships and thus learn to understand eachothers views of the world. --- [0]"Although you can study in Germany for free at public institutions as an undergraduate, there is a charge per semester for enrolment, confirmation and administration – usually between €150 and €250 (US$170-280) depending on the university. There may be an additional charge of around €100 for a “Semesterticket”, which covers public transport expenses for six months. If you exceed the standard period of study by more than four semesters, you may also face a long-term fee charge, which could be as much as €800 (US$920) per semester." www.topuniversities.com/.../how-much-does-it-cost-study-germany
- douche 12y ago
  All of these fees combined are peanuts compared to the cost of attending any U.S. public university (I'm most familiar with UMaine and UNH, which is $10-15k, and around $30k for non-state residents, in tuition). Private colleges are often on the order of $35-50k for tuition. It's really outrageous. 35 years ago when my parents were in college, they could make enough money doing typical college-kid jobs (waiting tables, working summers, the same sort of things college students do now), to support themselves AND pay their tuition. I'm a software developer, working full-time, and I don't clear enough money after taxes in a year to pay for a year of tuition at the college I graduated from, unless I were going to be living in a van down by the river and surviving on free pizza provided by student groups.
sonium 12y ago
Beside what was already said, one needs to consider that German universities have a much lower expense per student. This is because the universities have a chronic lack of money. This means that little is invested into 'feel good' facilities e.g. university run Gyms / extensive libraries. From my experience they offer little that is not essential to studying, but this doesn't keep them from providing a great education.
- gigigigihkv 12y ago
  That's contrary to all my experiences. Gym/sports/languages courses/... are easily on par with US private unis, except less expensive.
  - the_rosentotter 12y ago
    Competitive college sports is pretty much non-existent in Europe.
    - revelation 12y ago
      Thats a funny distinction. Competitive sports are not centralized at universities, but of course they exist all the same. What you are saying is that if you want to do competitive sports, you won't get a degree in history of business or other feign courses pros take in the US university sports system.
sonium 12y ago
Beside what was already said, one needs to consider that German universities have a much lower expense per student. This is because the universities have a chronic lack of money. This means that little is invested into 'feel good' facilities e.g. university run Gyms / extensive libraries. From my experience they offer little that is not essential to studying, but this doesn't keep them from providing a great education.
drvd 12y ago
Germans are not so obsessed about not paying taxes like e.g. Americans or Swiss. Nobody likes to pay taxes and everybody complains about the high taxes. But I think (actually hope!) that Germans understand (if only unconsciously) that happiness is much more depending on getting old without fear of poverty, knowing to be treated if ill, being able to go safely outside anytime anywhere, not dropping out of society if bad luck happens and getting proper education than on the single only monetary principle "I don't pay taxes!".
- stingraycharles 12y ago
  Also, you could argue that it is a good investment to have high educated foreigners receive their education in your country: it's like extending your business network on a nation-wide level.
  - allendoerfer 12y ago
    I think so, too. Contacts become contracts.
  - tsotha 12y ago
    Yes, it is like that if you only charge for your model of business expansion is to charge for your product in your own town and give it away for free everywhere else.
- chli 12y ago
  Where did you get the idea that Swiss are obsessed with not paying taxes ? In fact Switzerland and Germany are very similar in all the aspects you mention.
  - wolfgke 12y ago
    I agrree. Being German, it's my impression that the Swiss are even more honest with taxes than the Germans. The general impression in many countries rather is: The Swiss are very honest with their taxes, but don't care about tax honesty about foreigners in their own countries (getting people to be honest about their taxes is a problem that each country has to solve by itself). This is different from the German mentality - also rather honest, but very missionary about tax honesty in other countries (especially the Greek seem to have a serious problem with this ;-) ). As one says humorously in German "Am deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen." (freely translated with "The world shall recover by the German quiddity.").
wongarsu 12y ago
According to the article there are about 100 American Students at the University of Cologne. That should be about 1% of the students. Having 1% more students more who pay exactly as much as domestic students isn't something that concerns me as German taxpayer, even if there would be no benefit for us. If I would have a problem with our budget there would be much bigger fish to fry.
- Symbiote 12y ago
  When I started at Imperial College London in 2004, about 30% of the students in my class were from China, Taiwan or similar. Many wanted to work in the US, some had applied to US universities. By the time we graduated, after having lived here and with the US tightening its immigration policies, most took jobs in the UK. That was with £17,000+/year fees (for non-EU students), so they were super-rich and also clever. If studying at Cologne is free for them, and in English, that will attract potential students away from Britain. I paid about £1000 year, like all British students, but I'd definitely consider Germany if I was 17 now. Fees for British students have increased to ~£9000/year! My workplace has a very international staff, all bilingual staff's teenage children are pretty much guaranteed to study elsewhere in the EU, with others considering it.
- th0br0 12y ago
  The University of Cologne has a rather high number of students that are only enrolled there for the Semesterticket (public transportation ticket valid in most of North-Rhine Westfalia) and as such, the official number is slightly below 50000 students if I recall correctly. Compared to that, the 100 students are just 0,2%. The number of "active" students is around 20k I think - so the ratio is still significantly below 1%
  - pluma 12y ago
    To be fair, it's impossible to get anything close to resembling the NRW Ticket (flat fee for unlimited use of regional public transit in all of North-Rhine Westphalia) as a non-student. The closest equivalents are either offered by the local public transit unions (which are limited to the region covered by that public transit union, of which there are a ton in NRW) or the BahnCard 100 (which covers all of Germany -- but not necessarily all local public transit -- and is ridiculously expensive).
aikah 12y ago
The question is how could that expensive US education could possibly make sense for americans? In Europe,in most countries, education is virtually free, just look at the cost of law school or med school in France or Belgium for instance. It's what $500 dollars a year at most? Of course there are plenty of private schools in Europe, but even these are usually half the cost of American ones. I graduated in computer science, in France. 4 years of college education cost me, what, 1000$ at most? Now sure, I pay a LOT of taxes. But I know at least some of it goes into education and allow other student like I was to afford a good education. Having stayed in US for a while, while salaries seemed higher I don't think the cost of life is cheaper than in western Europe.
- doyoulikeworms 12y ago
  Public university used to be cheap. In the 1960's, tuition & fees at a UC school was less than $2000 (2015 dollars) per year. In the 1950's, it was less than $750 per year.[1][2] Today, tuition & fees at a UC will cost you $15,000 per year. In order to completely pay for tuition and fees, the state of California would have to increase revenue $3 billion per year. Or increase tax revenues by just 3%.[1][3] I, as a citizen, feel like our government's priorities have been absolutely abysmal since the 1980's. To me, this level of insanity transcends political ideology. It's just plain dumb not to fix this. > Now sure, I pay a LOT of taxes. But I know at least some of it goes into education and allow other student like I was to afford a good education. Having stayed in US for a while, while salaries seemed higher I don't think the cost of life is cheaper than in western Europe. Cost of living is lower in the US (as a whole) than Western European countries, and median household income adjusted for purchasing power parity (PPP) is quite a bit higher in the US.[4][5] That doesn't make any of this sensible, though. Sure, I'd take lower taxes if Californian kids had to pay just a couple thousand more to college than French kids. But $14k more? Insanity. Raise my taxes please. 1. http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-1868/ http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-... 2. http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=84&year1=1956&year2=2015 http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=84&year1=1956&y... 3. http://www.sco.ca.gov/state_finances_101_state_taxes.html http://www.sco.ca.gov/state_finances_101_state_taxes.html 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income 5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity#OECD_comparative_price_levels http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity#OECD_co...
golergka 12y ago
I would gladly pay more taxes if it meant attracting intellectual and ambitious (and you have to be both to explore this kind of opportunity — also, I suspect that you have to pass some exams, right?) people from other countries.
sauere 12y ago
The mindset here is different. 1. We have a 20% sales tax, income tax that is usually somewhere between 35%-45%... car taxes, highest energy costs in the world... just taxes everywhere. 2. The overall mindset here is much less libertarian and much more "let the Goverment handle it". 3. Smart brains are needed for the local economy to stay competitive. 4. Another thing to keep in mind: the actual cost for a student isn't really that much money. There are no million dollar sports teams, luxury gyms, technical equipment usually just isn't on the same level...
Cthulhu_ 12y ago
Well consider the alternative: only rich people could get a higher education otherwise. IIRC this is what happens in the US too (parents having to save for their kids' college education, assuming they actually have money left after paying the bills), which leads to reduced mobility (the poor stay poor)
- tsotha 12y ago
  >Well consider the alternative: only rich people could get a higher education otherwise. No, that's not the alternative at all. The alternative would be to have people from other countries pay their own way and provide free education to your own citizens.
  - eru 12y ago
    Isn't it nice that some countries try to transcend the accidents of birth within or beyond an imaginary line?
    - tsotha 12y ago
      Sure, it's nice that the Germans are doing it. I don't want my country doing it, though.
      - eru 12y ago
        But you want your country doing it for your countrymen? If yes, why do you care about helping some people who were born inside some invisible line more than others? (If not, that's at least not nationalistic..)
holri 12y ago
Maybe they understand that education is a universal good.

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

by tsotha 12y ago

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

> According to the DAAD, half of foreign students getting a degree in Germany will stay. That's not just in the short term either — 40 percent of students plan on remaining for at least 10 years. In the U.S., only 12 percent of international students opt to stay for even one year That probably makes financial sense. Of course, it doesn't scale, but for the number of people studying right now it's probably a net benefit.

yandie 12y ago
US Visa system is not very friendly to foreign students either.
- spiritplumber 12y ago
  Yeah. Right now the US offers its educational infrastructure to foreigners to study in, and then destroys most of the good will that this generates in the student by basically kicking them out after graduation. Not sure how this makes sense from either a business or a PR standpoint.
  - anon4 12y ago
    I'm wondering if creating per-state Visas would help this. States that want to be more open to foreigners could potentially fast-track such visas, but getting a full USA citizenship would require jumping through more hoops.
    - eru 12y ago
      That sounds like an excellent idea. I wonder what political forces would oppose this?
jsonne 12y ago
Germany has an abysmal fertility rate. It's probably in their best interest to attract young educated workers with subsidized college.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

jacalata 12y ago

From the article: >Germany wants these international students here, even though their taxpayers foot the bill. >“Germany is not a country that's growing,” Malone says. “Its population is not growing. They need people, they need immigrants. They want to be a migration country.” >Think about it this way: it’s a global game of collecting talent. All of these students are the trading cards, and the collectors are countries. If a country collects more talent, they'll have an influx of new ideas, new businesses and a better economy.

clusterbits 12y ago
True. There is big discussion on how to pay benefits in the future and how to stay competitive in global markets. To me the only way to solve this two problems is to attract smart people from foreign countries.
- sz4kerto 12y ago
  Look at Singapore, where 40% of the population is immigrant.
adventured 12y ago
I completely get the premise of drawing talent. I don't agree with the concerns over population numbers itself. You see this fear from Japan, Germany, and much of Europe. Entering into an age that will be dominated by robotics, greater general automation, artificial intelligence, etc., having more people across the board will not be a net benefit. Germany is worrying about this at exactly the wrong time. Germany has vastly expanded their economy since 1970, while adding zero additional people. They'll be able to do exactly the same thing over the next 40 years by leveraging the incredible productivity gains that are inbound right now. No population growth is necessary or desirable; if Germany holds its population steady, and increases economic output through greater productivity, they'll greatly improve the odds that the median standard of living will increase in line.
- jvienna 12y ago
  The intention in germany is much more to try to keep the population stable (it is currently decreasing). The current development is somewhat frightening regard the german pension insurance system. For a comparison see: http://populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/ http://populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/ http://populationpyramid.net/germany/ http://populationpyramid.net/germany/

seren 12y ago

Educating someone from 1 to 20 is not free either. Being able to attract educated people is historically a big competitive advantage of the USA. It is better to get someone who has already graduated, but getting someone about to graduate and contribute to the economy is not bad either.

omegaham 12y ago

They'll make it back with the increased business. You're having a large number of people come to Germany, make friendships, and learn the language. Some will stay. Some will do business with German companies even when they move back to the US. Also, the program is selective, which means that you're hopefully only grabbing decent people and not riffraff. This further maximizes your return.

davidw 12y ago
I think riffraff went to the university here in Italy: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=riffraff https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=riffraff :-)

cJ0th 12y ago

I don't think it is free for foreigners. It is just that those fees you have to pay (maybe a few hundred Euros per term[0]) are nothing compared to what it costs to attend an US university. However, since more and more Germans want to go to uni some fields of study are jammed with students in recent years. This in turn means that the quality of education goes down (for example: not enough capacities for tutors and not enough actual seats for students) So from that perspective it doesn't make sense for German taxpayers. If capacities are already stressed getting more students doesn't help. On a more human level it is probably beneficial when Germans and Americans form more friendships and thus learn to understand eachothers views of the world. --- [0]"Although you can study in Germany for free at public institutions as an undergraduate, there is a charge per semester for enrolment, confirmation and administration – usually between €150 and €250 (US$170-280) depending on the university. There may be an additional charge of around €100 for a “Semesterticket”, which covers public transport expenses for six months. If you exceed the standard period of study by more than four semesters, you may also face a long-term fee charge, which could be as much as €800 (US$920) per semester." www.topuniversities.com/.../how-much-does-it-cost-study-germany

douche 12y ago
All of these fees combined are peanuts compared to the cost of attending any U.S. public university (I'm most familiar with UMaine and UNH, which is $10-15k, and around $30k for non-state residents, in tuition). Private colleges are often on the order of $35-50k for tuition. It's really outrageous. 35 years ago when my parents were in college, they could make enough money doing typical college-kid jobs (waiting tables, working summers, the same sort of things college students do now), to support themselves AND pay their tuition. I'm a software developer, working full-time, and I don't clear enough money after taxes in a year to pay for a year of tuition at the college I graduated from, unless I were going to be living in a van down by the river and surviving on free pizza provided by student groups.

sonium 12y ago

Beside what was already said, one needs to consider that German universities have a much lower expense per student. This is because the universities have a chronic lack of money. This means that little is invested into 'feel good' facilities e.g. university run Gyms / extensive libraries. From my experience they offer little that is not essential to studying, but this doesn't keep them from providing a great education.

gigigigihkv 12y ago
That's contrary to all my experiences. Gym/sports/languages courses/... are easily on par with US private unis, except less expensive.
- the_rosentotter 12y ago
  Competitive college sports is pretty much non-existent in Europe.
  - revelation 12y ago
    Thats a funny distinction. Competitive sports are not centralized at universities, but of course they exist all the same. What you are saying is that if you want to do competitive sports, you won't get a degree in history of business or other feign courses pros take in the US university sports system.

sonium 12y ago

drvd 12y ago

Germans are not so obsessed about not paying taxes like e.g. Americans or Swiss. Nobody likes to pay taxes and everybody complains about the high taxes. But I think (actually hope!) that Germans understand (if only unconsciously) that happiness is much more depending on getting old without fear of poverty, knowing to be treated if ill, being able to go safely outside anytime anywhere, not dropping out of society if bad luck happens and getting proper education than on the single only monetary principle "I don't pay taxes!".

stingraycharles 12y ago
Also, you could argue that it is a good investment to have high educated foreigners receive their education in your country: it's like extending your business network on a nation-wide level.
- allendoerfer 12y ago
  I think so, too. Contacts become contracts.
- tsotha 12y ago
  Yes, it is like that if you only charge for your model of business expansion is to charge for your product in your own town and give it away for free everywhere else.
chli 12y ago
Where did you get the idea that Swiss are obsessed with not paying taxes ? In fact Switzerland and Germany are very similar in all the aspects you mention.
- wolfgke 12y ago
  I agrree. Being German, it's my impression that the Swiss are even more honest with taxes than the Germans. The general impression in many countries rather is: The Swiss are very honest with their taxes, but don't care about tax honesty about foreigners in their own countries (getting people to be honest about their taxes is a problem that each country has to solve by itself). This is different from the German mentality - also rather honest, but very missionary about tax honesty in other countries (especially the Greek seem to have a serious problem with this ;-) ). As one says humorously in German "Am deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen." (freely translated with "The world shall recover by the German quiddity.").

wongarsu 12y ago

According to the article there are about 100 American Students at the University of Cologne. That should be about 1% of the students. Having 1% more students more who pay exactly as much as domestic students isn't something that concerns me as German taxpayer, even if there would be no benefit for us. If I would have a problem with our budget there would be much bigger fish to fry.

Symbiote 12y ago
When I started at Imperial College London in 2004, about 30% of the students in my class were from China, Taiwan or similar. Many wanted to work in the US, some had applied to US universities. By the time we graduated, after having lived here and with the US tightening its immigration policies, most took jobs in the UK. That was with £17,000+/year fees (for non-EU students), so they were super-rich and also clever. If studying at Cologne is free for them, and in English, that will attract potential students away from Britain. I paid about £1000 year, like all British students, but I'd definitely consider Germany if I was 17 now. Fees for British students have increased to ~£9000/year! My workplace has a very international staff, all bilingual staff's teenage children are pretty much guaranteed to study elsewhere in the EU, with others considering it.
th0br0 12y ago
The University of Cologne has a rather high number of students that are only enrolled there for the Semesterticket (public transportation ticket valid in most of North-Rhine Westfalia) and as such, the official number is slightly below 50000 students if I recall correctly. Compared to that, the 100 students are just 0,2%. The number of "active" students is around 20k I think - so the ratio is still significantly below 1%
- pluma 12y ago
  To be fair, it's impossible to get anything close to resembling the NRW Ticket (flat fee for unlimited use of regional public transit in all of North-Rhine Westphalia) as a non-student. The closest equivalents are either offered by the local public transit unions (which are limited to the region covered by that public transit union, of which there are a ton in NRW) or the BahnCard 100 (which covers all of Germany -- but not necessarily all local public transit -- and is ridiculously expensive).

aikah 12y ago

The question is how could that expensive US education could possibly make sense for americans? In Europe,in most countries, education is virtually free, just look at the cost of law school or med school in France or Belgium for instance. It's what $500 dollars a year at most? Of course there are plenty of private schools in Europe, but even these are usually half the cost of American ones. I graduated in computer science, in France. 4 years of college education cost me, what, 1000$ at most? Now sure, I pay a LOT of taxes. But I know at least some of it goes into education and allow other student like I was to afford a good education. Having stayed in US for a while, while salaries seemed higher I don't think the cost of life is cheaper than in western Europe.

doyoulikeworms 12y ago
Public university used to be cheap. In the 1960's, tuition & fees at a UC school was less than $2000 (2015 dollars) per year. In the 1950's, it was less than $750 per year.[1][2] Today, tuition & fees at a UC will cost you $15,000 per year. In order to completely pay for tuition and fees, the state of California would have to increase revenue $3 billion per year. Or increase tax revenues by just 3%.[1][3] I, as a citizen, feel like our government's priorities have been absolutely abysmal since the 1980's. To me, this level of insanity transcends political ideology. It's just plain dumb not to fix this. > Now sure, I pay a LOT of taxes. But I know at least some of it goes into education and allow other student like I was to afford a good education. Having stayed in US for a while, while salaries seemed higher I don't think the cost of life is cheaper than in western Europe. Cost of living is lower in the US (as a whole) than Western European countries, and median household income adjusted for purchasing power parity (PPP) is quite a bit higher in the US.[4][5] That doesn't make any of this sensible, though. Sure, I'd take lower taxes if Californian kids had to pay just a couple thousand more to college than French kids. But $14k more? Insanity. Raise my taxes please. 1. http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-1868/ http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-... 2. http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=84&year1=1956&year2=2015 http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=84&year1=1956&y... 3. http://www.sco.ca.gov/state_finances_101_state_taxes.html http://www.sco.ca.gov/state_finances_101_state_taxes.html 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income 5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity#OECD_comparative_price_levels http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity#OECD_co...

golergka 12y ago

I would gladly pay more taxes if it meant attracting intellectual and ambitious (and you have to be both to explore this kind of opportunity — also, I suspect that you have to pass some exams, right?) people from other countries.

sauere 12y ago

The mindset here is different. 1. We have a 20% sales tax, income tax that is usually somewhere between 35%-45%... car taxes, highest energy costs in the world... just taxes everywhere. 2. The overall mindset here is much less libertarian and much more "let the Goverment handle it". 3. Smart brains are needed for the local economy to stay competitive. 4. Another thing to keep in mind: the actual cost for a student isn't really that much money. There are no million dollar sports teams, luxury gyms, technical equipment usually just isn't on the same level...

Cthulhu_ 12y ago

Well consider the alternative: only rich people could get a higher education otherwise. IIRC this is what happens in the US too (parents having to save for their kids' college education, assuming they actually have money left after paying the bills), which leads to reduced mobility (the poor stay poor)

tsotha 12y ago
>Well consider the alternative: only rich people could get a higher education otherwise. No, that's not the alternative at all. The alternative would be to have people from other countries pay their own way and provide free education to your own citizens.
- eru 12y ago
  Isn't it nice that some countries try to transcend the accidents of birth within or beyond an imaginary line?
  - tsotha 12y ago
    Sure, it's nice that the Germans are doing it. I don't want my country doing it, though.
    - eru 12y ago
      But you want your country doing it for your countrymen? If yes, why do you care about helping some people who were born inside some invisible line more than others? (If not, that's at least not nationalistic..)

holri 12y ago

Maybe they understand that education is a universal good.