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Chinese Ghost Cities That Came Alive
- wmf 12y agoBuilding an empty city from scratch and then populating it sounds utopian, and people are pretty skeptical of utopian thinking these days. But I guess it makes sense under China's combination of rapid urbanization and central planning.
- beefsack 12y agoI'm currently living about 5km away from Zhujiang in Guangzhou, numbered two in the article. I'm actually surprised to hear that it was previously a ghost city, it's been a very busy spot since I was first over here around 5 years ago. It's also a little strange to hear it called a "city", it's more of a district in the centre in what was already a very large city.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- flyrain 12y agoMy hometown is Wujin, Changzhou, the second city this post described. I lived there for almost 20 years. It has never been a ghost city as I known. It is always flourishing. If this place will be called ghost city, I don't know how you describe most United States cities.
- haosdent 12y agoCouldn't not agree with more. The report is wrong, the author did't familiar with China at all.
- simonh 12y agoWhat the report actualy says: >It’s actually extremely difficult to cross the street in Wujin, which doesn’t bode well for the argument that it’s a ghost town. Did you read it? The linked article is pointing out that these cities are not ghost towns at all.
- lotsofmangos 12y agoThat is the point of the article. The article is a list of places that are not ghost cities, even though they have been described as such by idiots in the press.
- mattwad 12y agoActually he claims they used to be ghost cities: "Below are five new cities in China that have advanced through the ghost city phase and have come to life."
- lotsofmangos 12y agoThe preceding paragraphs before that line all attack the press concept of the Chinese ghost city though, so in the context of that line, ghost city is meaning 'normal city still under construction' rather than 'giant Potemkin village never to be filled'.
- jpatokal 12y agoLooks like even the most famous "ghost city" of them all, Ordos, isn't pining for the fjords just yet. http://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/04/ordos-a-ghost-town-that-isnt/274776/ http://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/04/ordos-a-gho...
- sergers 12y ago2013 article... You fall right into the posts topic. Latest maps show beginnings of a bustling city... Wiki show 2m pop. Chinese really believe in build it.. They will come...... Eventually in hordes.
- seanmcdirmid 12y agoHere is one from yesterday: http://gizmodo.com/4-instant-cities-that-are-still-completely-empty-1693270774 http://gizmodo.com/4-instant-cities-that-are-still-completel... Quote: >Today, the real-estate situation in Ordos has turned macabre. Video billboards along the city's major roadways display mug shots of fugitive developers who have skipped town, fleeing their debts. There are rumors about the dynamiting of buildings in Kangbashi: about owners of unoccupied apartment towers who hope to create value through destruction, reselling freshly cleared land to new investors.
- WalterSear 12y agoChina is a big place, and the original article is a puff peice. I could see all the places described here growing furiously, while dozens more cities are lying empty and abandoned.
- fspeech 12y agoYeah but if you read on you will find that that piece is actually based on an NYT story: http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/ordos-china-tourist-city/?_r=2 http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/ordos-china-to... The NYT piece itself is much more carefully hedged. The TL;DR by the reporter: "IN SHORT, ORDOS is not empty, but it is odd" A real estate bust implies that investors lost money but not necessarily a ghost town. Anyway the Ordos story was a lot more market driven than the other ones: for a while when coal price was dear Ordos boasted the highest per capita income in all of China. Also land is a lot cheaper in this unpopulated area.
- leeroyding 12y agoI don't see any "ghost city" here. That's hard working people building a new prosperous city from scratch. IMO a "ghost city" would be cities that is not as popular as before, not some place that had never become a city.
- davydka 12y agoI feel like the idea of the Chinese "ghost city" is just plain false. You can label any new development this way. A typical housing development could have the title "Crazy Americans Build Ghost Houses". This is just urban planning and development being implemented.
- JeremyNT 12y ago> This is just urban planning and development being implemented. I feel like this is the origin of it. In the US, we seem to take a much more short term view of "urban planning" - rather than being laid out up front to support high density, cities more typically grow via low density sprawl on demand. The idea of having a city (or district) constructed from the ground up to efficiently meet the needs of citizens 15 years in the future is alien to most of us. The context in which we typically encounter large groups of vacant buildings and empty streets is one in which something has gone wrong, which I think is why we find the "ghost city" narrative compelling.
- manuelriel 12y agoPudong was never a ghost city either. A more complete sample would be desirable. How about South China Mall? That was one of the prime examples, wasn't it?
- fspeech 12y agohttp://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20140706000009&cid=1202 http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=2014...
- nichtich 12y agoLocation is the key. The places listed in the article are all "new districts" of growing major cities, so they will be filled as planed. But not all major cities are actually growing, or growing as fast as planners hoped. And no official will admit their city is not growing, so as new districts are being build, some of them are going to be ghost ones. However, the real ghost cities are mostly not going to be the ones you see in the media, for the reason of not shiny enough. If a project is on the failing trail, both the government and the developer will try to back off, to cut loses. So if you see the buildings are properly finished and streets well maintained, just lacking people, then it means the government and developers have not lost hope, and usually they have some good reasons.
- comrade1 12y agoThe current narrative in the u.s. press, including the tech press, is that china is somewhat backward and uncompetitive. Some people even still call them communist. When the reality is quite different, with cutting edge research, products, technology coming out every day. There are cities in china you've never even heard of that have populations bigger than most major u.s. cities. In something like 50 years the Chinese went from a poor 3rd world country to 1st world, pulling over 500 million people out of poverty and into the middle class. The u.s. view is stuck in the 1960s-80s view of China. Even the chinese food in the u.s. is old-fashioned and not modern compared to what's in China now.
- simonh 12y agoI agree there's a lot of missunderstanding about China in the Western press. To be fair though, the ruling party in China does still call itself Communits, and vigorously advertises itself as such.
- cbd1984 12y ago> Some people even still call them communist. Such as the PRC government. http://english1.english.gov.cn/links/cpc.htm http://english1.english.gov.cn/links/cpc.htm It's Socialist, too http://english.gov.cn/archive/white_paper/2014/09/09/content_281474986284659.htm http://english.gov.cn/archive/white_paper/2014/09/09/content... > In something like 50 years the Chinese went from a poor 3rd world country to 1st world, pulling over 500 million people out of poverty and into the middle class. So did the Soviet Union. The thing is, you can only have an Industrial Revolution once. > Even the chinese food in the u.s. is old-fashioned and not modern compared to what's in China now. Chinese-American cuisine is completely separate from what's eaten in China and must be understood as its own cultural entity.
- cbd1984 12y agoHere's an interesting article from 2012 on how the PRC government wants people to understand China's economic politics: http://en.people.cn/100668/102793/7980397.html http://en.people.cn/100668/102793/7980397.html > In June 1992, Comrade Jiang Zemin explicitly put forward the concept of "socialist market economic system" for the first time on the basis of Comrade Deng Xiaoping’s southern talk. Socialist market economy. If the government says it, that means it isn't an oxymoron. Money quote: > As Comrade Deng Xiaoping pointed out, "The essence of socialism is to liberate and develop productivity, to eliminate exploitation and polarization, and ultimately achieve common prosperity." The ultimate goal of the reform of socialist market economic system also points to "common prosperity". Therefore China should continue to shape its path for structural reform by this goal. Two aspects of China's economic reform are thus highlighted. The first is to further enhance the efficiency of the market by introducing market mechanisms, and the second is to provide better public service by reforming the means of planned economy, improving the capacity of macro-control and facilitating transformation of government functions since the capacity of public service provision is the primary ability in building a society of "common prosperity". Market mechanisms in a planned economy. Macro-control (implying micro-invisible hand, I suppose). Common prosperity. Eh, I snark, but it's an interesting experiment. I just wish it weren't being run in a context where there's no ethics review board.
- johnong 12y agoThis was covered by 60 Minutes awhile back. See the youtube link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei0FpwI1dqg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei0FpwI1dqg
- lotsofmangos 12y ago“The ghost city of Dantu has been mostly empty for over a decade,” Business Insider reported. “In most neighborhoods of Dantu, there are no cars, no signs of life,” reported the Daily Mail. Both of these claims were made from looking at dated satellite images that showed the new district while it was still a construction site, not from reporters who actually went there. Business as usual in the world of journalism.
- westiseast 12y agoThe "ghost city" phenomenon always seemed like a good headline, ignoring the real building tragedy going on: poor quality housing, poor city planning, poor urban facilities. I see massive developments going on around me and yes, for a long time they are empty and ghostlike. they slowly fill up, and the urban centers become that bit more unliveable, that bit more crowded etc.
- crdoconnor 12y agoSome of them were (and are) definitely real.
- dmritard96 12y agocurrently in Shenzhen - my reaction has been that there are these beutiful malls and buildings that are being built but som feel empty. Sure you could chock it up to an overzelous goverment pouring money into development but you might also take a look at malls in the US that are now empty. The counter examples though are numerous. There are many areas that feel incredibly vibrant, full of buzz and people. The amount of consumerism in China shocked me, even as an American...
- zhte415 12y agoQuite literally 'Built It, and They Will Come'.
- gcdgcd3 12y ago洋五毛
- gcdgcd3 12y agoApparently he is rainmaker of the Chinese communist party, who only care about money, not care about human rights. 这个作者只不过是给共产党捧臭脚的
- gcdgcd3 12y agoA lot of rainmaker of the Chinese communist party here. People couldn't withstand the lure of lie will be dragged into the mire. 五毛你好，五毛再见
- zghst 12y agoHmmm still doesn't counter the fact that there is overdevelopment in China, just this year CNN ran a story on a ghost district in Tiajin.... http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/19/world/gallery/china-tianjin-ghost-city/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/19/world/gallery/china-tianjin-gh... Also Vice had an episode featuring ghost towns: http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/explore-chinese-ghost-towns-in-tonights-episode-of-vice-on-hbo http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/explore-chinese-ghost-towns... Yes our news media likes to hype up anything China these days. The problem with overdevelopment is not that the cities remain empty, it is the debts that come with them (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-04/china-s-cities-face-judgment-day-on-debts-as-costs-soar http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-04/china-s-ci...). I can imagine many Chinese cities with flashy buildings are deep in debt, American style.