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Lets not forget that Singapore executes a higher percentage of its population than any other country on earth and canes people slicing into flesh.
by l10nf15h 12y ago
Lets not forget that Singapore executes a higher percentage of its population than any other country on earth and canes people slicing into flesh.
- seanmcdirmid 12y agoI thought they mostly executed foreigners getting caught running drugs through the airport?
- l10nf15h 12y agoSingapore will also execute anyone for simply possessing a firearm.
- ptaipale 12y agoNot quite, Wikipedia: "Trafficking in arms (Section 6) is a capital offence in Singapore. Under the Arms Offences Act, trafficking is defined as being in unlawful possession of more than two firearms."
- l10nf15h 12y agoThat is still shocking to anyone in the US where the ratio of guns to people is 1:1.
- sjwright 12y agoThe 1:1 ratio of guns to people is shocking to the majority of the civilised world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP3HJVp3n9c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP3HJVp3n9c
- refurb 12y agoWhy? Many other countries come close to that ratio. Is there something intrinsically bad about that?
- seanmcdirmid 12y agoI think the bigger problem is that we manufacture many more guns than we can use, which is basically tacit support for the guns for drug trade.
- refurb 12y agoThe US? People can own more than one gun. The 1:1 ratio is for privately own guns. Doesn't include military or guns for export.
- 9872 12y agoIs there something intrinsically bad about executing illegal arms dealers?
- wycx 12y agoMandatory execution sees offenders only as their offence, rather than human beings, and denies offenders the opportunity to change for the better. It is cynical and pessimistic.
- sjwright 12y agoTreating offenders only as their offence is what most justice systems to to most criminals most of the time. Particularly in the USA, where incarceration is a for-profit business traded on the stock market.
- ptaipale 12y agoIs there a mandatory execution for firearms violation in Singapore? I didn't think so.
- sjwright 12y agoNo, very few countries come close to that ratio. The poster-child for widespread gun ownership, Switzerland, still only has half as many guns per capita[0] as the US. They also have laws that prohibit most people from carrying loaded guns. The result is a gun homicide rate less than 1/5th that of the US per capita.[1] Yes, intrinsically bad. It's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't live in a gun "bubble". Number one cause of death by gun? Suicide. Watch that YouTube clip[2] in full; it summarises my opinion quite well. The second amendment makes sense in the era of muskets, but in the present day only serves to make everyday life less safe, and police officers more Ferguson-ey. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_co... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-re... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP3HJVp3n9c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP3HJVp3n9c
- ptaipale 12y agoYes, but note that the offense is for unlawful possession of firearms, not lawful possession (though I imagine the conditions for lawful possession in Singapore are extremely restrictive). Where I live (Finland) the ratio is 2:5 (2 million legal guns, 5 million people). That's the highest in EU. We also have among the highest homicide rate in EU, but these two rates are not really connected (i.e. very few of the homicides done with a gun.).
- adventured 12y agoI think Sweden and Germany have you matched or beat on guns per capita in the EU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_co...
- branchless 12y agoAnd 1:1 guns ratio is shocking for most of the rest of the world...
- lalalander 12y agoYour point being? The possession of firearm is illegal in the country.
- jqgatsby 12y agoYour response and the thinking it indicates gave me a chill. You are justifying executing someone based on whether or not they broke a state law, not on whether or not they broke a moral law. Either you think firearm possession is inherently immoral (problematic but defensible position), or you think moral law and state law are equivalent (terrifying position) or you think something else that I haven't thought of. My experience in Singapore showed that the moral/state equivalence position was very common. It was the most unsafe "safe" place I've ever been in. When we arrived at the airport, my wife was detained because the silver earrings she was wearing were cast from a mold to look like empty bullet cartridges (with feathers and various doodads attached, nothing that had attracted any attention in any of a dozen high security settings). The bureaucrat who interrogated her claimed that whether she was in very serious trouble or not was entirely in his hands. I'm no second amendment fanatic, but as an American, it was shocking to find myself in a position where some minor official could plausibly even claim to have so much power. The fact that Singaporean society is willing to make that kind of tradeoff for the sake of safety made me realize that it was not somewhere I could ever live. The craziest part was that the Singaporeans and expats I met there did not even see it as a tradeoff. It was more like "these are the rules, if you follow them you will be so safe, whether the rules are right or just or good isn't a well-posed question". We were just having two different conversations.
- jpatokal 12y agoWhile I don't disagree, it's worth noting that any minor official at any airport -- and this very much includes the US -- has very, very wide-ranging powers over non-citizens traipsing through. Sample: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar Singaporean officials are also very keen on following the letter of the law, and in Singapore that letter happens to state that unauthorized possession of ammunition is a Very Big Deal.
- 12y ago
- ptaipale 12y agoLooking at figures in Wikipedia, compiled by Amnesty International, foreigners have been always in the minority, except for one year recently (2007) when two people out of three were foreigners. This became possible because the number of executions has dropped drastically since 1990's (from around 70 per year to around 3-7 per year; in 2010 it was zero). If the number is 1 and the one happens to be foreigner some year, then the foreigner rate will be 100 %.
- smcl 12y agoI'm not sure that's any better to be quite honest, even if it's true (I have no figures at hand)
- Panoramix 12y agoFor what is worth, I'd rather be executed than to "live" in an American prison. The idea that solitary confinement occurs in a first world country is appalling and scary. Don't get me started on the things inmates and guards do to some people.
- seanmcdirmid 12y agoIt takes a long time to execute people in the USA. Having an execution hanging over your head for 20 years probably makes prison much, much, much worse.
- ams6110 12y agoWell everyone has their own death hanging over their head all the time.
- seanmcdirmid 12y agoYes, but it is often not imminent until you are old enough to not care anymore. You might die tomorrow in some freak accident, but you'll live today as if you aren't going to. In this case, ignorance is bliss.
- username223 12y ago> For what is worth, I'd rather be executed than to "live" in an American prison. Same. I'm not sure whether capital punishment should still be a thing, but anyone given a life sentence should have the option to choose death instead. Life in a supermax prison is deeply inhumane.
- sjwright 12y agoThat was true in the 1990s, but not in the last 10 years where use of capital punishment has been consistently less than 10 persons per year, including foreign nationals (i.e. not "its population"). Conversely the USA has a much higher percentage of its population sitting in prison. I suspect many of those people would prefer a caning over the loss of many productive years of their life.
- l10nf15h 12y agoIt's not meant to be a comparison. I am simply asking why most of this thread is celebrating a man that created a police state that is the model for Asia.
- sjwright 12y agoYou made the comparison, you can't say it wasn't meant to be a comparison. Strip away the jingoism, and I really don't see how the USA is any less of a police state than Singapore. From stop-and-frisk to civil forfeiture and the TSA, the United States is every bit a police state with just a thin outer layer of constitutional democracy. I've lived in both countries for extended periods, and I know which I'd prefer to live in. (Though if we look at California in isolation, I might prefer that, but only for the nice weather and cheap cars.)
- unethical_ban 12y agoAt least in America, we can bitch about it and (mostly) not be jailed or murdered for it. Heck, sometimes, things even change for the better.
- sjwright 12y agoYou can bitch about police corruption in Singapore -- rare as it is. The media isn't afraid to report, and the government isn't afraid to act. And sure, you can bitch about it in the USA -- common as it is. Except the media doesn't care (unless you have particularly compelling video footage) and the government is too scared to act.
- duckingtest 12y agoWhat wrong with caning? It's a much more effective punishment than a jail term. Pain is a strong negative reinforcement, while prison for career criminals feels more like home than freedom. It's drastically cheaper than a prison term. It prevents the contact with prison subculture/gangs. Additionally, it provides some restitution to victims, in the case of violent crimes. I see no downsides.