7 ms·

> a dedicated work profile that isolates and protects work data Oh wow, can this be used to just create a separate profile for every app? That way I can run Ub

> a dedicated work profile that isolates and protects work data Oh wow, can this be used to just create a separate profile for every app? That way I can run Uber or Line without giving them every permission to everything? This is the biggest reason I do not install apps. Every "famous" app requests so many permissions it's just stupid. And not to mention the weirdness of some of them, like "WiFi Device Information". What's that mean? Access to my WiFi AP names? No thanks. Or just local multicast? Who knows.

loxs 12y ago
Actually that's the reason I use iOS
- vlunkr 12y ago
  I honestly don't understand why this is down-voted, more "sandboxed" apps is one of the reasons I use iOS as well.
  - Splendor 12y ago
    Just for the sake of clarity, do you mean that there are more apps that are sandboxed on iOS or that all apps have a higher level of sandboxing on iOS?
    - vlunkr 12y ago
      The second option, that all apps have a higher level of sandboxing. Until iOS 8 apps couldn't do anything to modify the OS besides adding push notifications and maybe a page in the settings.
    - noblethrasher 12y ago
      More "sandboxed" in the sense that iOS apps start in a small sandbox that gets progressively and opportunistically larger. Instead of demanding all permissions upon installation, they demand them contemporaneously with attempted access to certain resources. The idea is that user consent is more informed. In contrast, Android apps demand all of their permissions up front.
      - vlunkr 12y ago
        Even beyond that though, if an iOS app requests ALL possible permissions, it doesn't have the same capabilities that an android app does.
        kelnos 12y ago
        I consider that a weakness of iOS as a platform. There are some pretty cool and useful things you can do with an Android app that you just can't do on iOS, period. Android's permission-granting model does leave much to be desired, though.
        smokeyj 12y ago
        > There are some pretty cool and useful things you can do with an Android app that you just can't do on iOS, period. Such as?
        Fargren 12y ago
        Running in the background is on I stumbled with porting an app from Android to iOS. what an an iOS app can do while it's not the current app is tremendously limited. This is for battery reasons, and I get it, but it would be nice if the choice was up to the user; instead Apple just decided the practice was unacceptable.
        kelnos 12y ago
        First things that comes to mind: Intercepting calls before they go out through the main dialer, and instead using some form of VoIP. Intercepting an incoming SMS that's used for phone number verification, rather than requiring that the user switch to their SMS app and manually enter a code. For that matter, replacing the SMS app with something better. Reasonable app backgrounding support for any purpose you can think of, not just for those that Apple has graciously allowed you to do. Hell, you couldn't even have custom keyboards on iOS until recently. Apps can also have access to stuff that iOS never allows: e.g. I have a 3rd-party app that backs up my SMS database to Google Drive every night. It can also do backups to Dropbox and a couple other services. With iOS your one and only cloud backup solution for "system related things" is iCloud, and you can't change that. None of these things require rooting the device. Yes, all of these things can be abused. But I prefer permissiveness that requires a little vigilance on my part over living in a restricted environment.
  - vilmosi 12y ago
    It's downvoted because it's a troll comment that doesn't further the discussion at all. It's irrelevant. I use Android because it let's me have defaults. See? Irrelevant statement. Everyone has different needs, just drop it.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  Can you expand on that?
  - runeks 12y ago
    > Oh wow, can this be used to just create a separate profile for every app? That way I can run Uber or Line without giving them every permission to everything? This is the biggest reason I do not install apps. Every "famous" app requests so many permissions it's just stupid. iOS does not require the user to accept all permissions that an app wishes to use, before installing that app. On iOS, you install an app without giving it permission to much, initially, and then the app, when you start it, starts asking for permissions that it needs, as it needs them. You can deny any permission request, and the app still works. Eg. you can install the Facebook app, and deny it access to read your contact list.
    - vetinari 12y ago
      In iOS, there are about 10 permissions (location, contacts, calendars, reminders, gallery, bluetooth, microphone, motion, twitter and facebook accounts). In Android, about 150. There is no mapping 1:1. Some things iOS does not allow at all (wifi information, sd card access). Some things iOS allows by default, with no way to deny it (internet access). The iOS approach would not scale, the user would be burried under confirmation dialogs. And that's just the initial confirmation, there has to be UI, when he changes his mind later. Those, who claim that iOS approach is superior are showing their ignorance, that they newer thought about the way, how the user would set matrix of this amount of permissions with many apps, without getting lost (hint: many are getting lost just in the current system. Imagine, that they would be able to toggle anything. And imagine, what the developers would say about that).
Nicholas_C 12y ago
Isn't there an app that restricts these permissions? I believe your phone has to be rooted for it to work though.
- leeoniya 12y ago
  XPrivacy: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=biz.bokhorst.xprivacy.installer&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=biz.bokhorst.x... App Ops: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=droidmate.appopsinstaller&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=droidmate.appo... Also, if your phone isn't rooted, is it really yours?
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  Yeah, but I have a Huawei Mate 2, which, last I looked, had some really obscure rooting instructions. Most steps consisted "download this random exe and give it admin permissions". Plus you have to email Huawei and ask nicely for the bootloader unlock code. And, rooting doesn't help the majority of users. Whereas protection from spying would. But Google, perhaps accidentally, seems intent on making permissions less visible and has no problem with devs requesting every permission. And since so many major apps do this, users have no effective recourse. MS and Apple got this one so much more right.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    And Nokia before them with Symbian security.
errantmind 12y ago
CyanogenMod's Privacy Guard is useful for dealing with this situation. There is a setting to enable it by default on newly installed apps. No matter what permissions the app says it requires, you are prompted when it actually requests them and can deny them at will or permanently.
- scottjad 12y ago
  When you deny them, roughly how often in your experience does this cause the app to crash or display an error?
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    I think it can return valid data, like empty sets or fake data. So apps shouldn't crash at all.
    - dspillett 12y ago
      Code that assumes it is going to get data instead of allowing for an empty response (in a circumstance where this is technically possible in reality but so rare the developer didn't thing to allow/test for it) could cause misfunction.
      - pwnna 12y ago
        That sounds like a bug in the application. While I'm not exactly certain on how Privacy Guard works (I have yet to examine that code base), if a phone returns [] for a list of contacts and the application crashes...
  - hundchenkatze 12y ago
    In my experience, the apps I've used don't crash. The biggest problem I've seen is me getting frustrated with an app for not working as advertised. Then I remember that I've enabled privacy guard and the app must not be getting some info it needs from the OS.
  - 12y ago
cbhl 12y ago
This is more targeted for people who have an enterprise domain (Google Apps for Work, Blackberry, Citrix, etc.) That said, if you want to create a separate profile for Uber or Line, you can already do so on Android 5.0 and above: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/2865483?hl=en&ref_topic=6126546 https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/2865483?hl=en&ref_to...
- thanksgiving 12y ago
  Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought this was for sharing your phone with someone else or sharing your phone between two or more Google accounts... I think Facebook Messenger, Line, and the like will still have access to all permissions even if you switch to a different user and install the apps there... That being said, guest mode is really nice on my nexus 5 so my curious friends on iPhone can log in to their google account on my phone as a guest and test drive android.
  - scintill76 12y ago
    I think the idea is, you create a dedicated "sandbox" account, install apps in it that you don't trust that want access to calendar, contacts, text messages, etc., and then don't put any real data of those kinds in the account. So, they still have permission to see those things, but they don't see anything when they look. Note, I have not looked deeply, so maybe it doesn't work like I said. I would not expect multitasking to be very seamless with this method. Also, I know there are some permissions that have "cross-user" abilities, so maybe there is still a way to accidentally allow an app to access your real data.
guelo 12y ago
Lollipop already added profiles. No reason you couldn't have a profile per app.
0x5f3759df-i 12y ago
You can use Xprivacy with Xposed to feed an app fake or empty data on a permission by permission basis. This works better than blocking permissions because sometimes apps don't fail gracefully when a permission is denied.
rtpg 12y ago
This is one place where iOS trumps Android. Per-permission switches on apps is really great. There's also an issue with "leaky abstractions" on android, where some useful features require extremely invasive permissions.
scrapcode 12y ago
I understand the discussion of app permissions is not a new one, but today I decided I wanted to try and buy a product through Amazon outside of the browser... Amazon specifically instructs you to navigate to your settings and allow installation of 3rd part apps. Then it directs you to download their .apk - To this point I was almost to the point of excitement that a MAJOR company is showing the public that this is even possible. Then I opened the .apk. It asked me for what has to be every permission available on Android. Why would Amazon need access to me Contacts? It even asked specifically for permission to my microphone! What?
- btilly 12y ago
  If they have not asked for those permissions, then how can they give those permissions to third party apps that you install through them?
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    That transitivity itself is an issue. Why cannot the installed apps request the permissions they need individually?
    - digi_owl 12y ago
      Unless i am mistaken, Amazon can't give premissions to another app install. The user has to leave the "unknown source" option checked as each APK installed goes through the same rigamarole. Play gets around this by being bundled as a system app initially. And if you have a rooted device you can potentially promote the amazon store to the same status, and so forgo the "unknown sources" switch.
      - dredmorbius 12y ago
        Thanks. I'm not familiar with the specifics.
minusSeven 12y ago
blackberry allows blackberry users to choose what permissions they won't allow access of in their apps. This doesn't work with the android apps but works rather well with blackberry apps. For example 2048 game has a lot of permission but being a game I don't allow a single one and it still works flawlessly. I would love to see something like this in android as well. But for now users are at the mercy of app developers.
fshen 12y ago
Four years of android user. Just switch to iphone6 2 month ago. Almost every app requests too many permissions. Almost every app starts a background process to receive notifications. which are very bad.
- st3fan 12y ago
  iOS apps do not (can not) "start a background process to receive notifications". Notifications are globally handled by the OS over a single dedicated optimized connection. And then dispatched to the individual applications.
  - digi_owl 12y ago
    And i think Google introduced an API in 5.0 that offers a opt in to something similar.

loxs 12y ago

Actually that's the reason I use iOS

vlunkr 12y ago
I honestly don't understand why this is down-voted, more "sandboxed" apps is one of the reasons I use iOS as well.
- Splendor 12y ago
  Just for the sake of clarity, do you mean that there are more apps that are sandboxed on iOS or that all apps have a higher level of sandboxing on iOS?
  - vlunkr 12y ago
    The second option, that all apps have a higher level of sandboxing. Until iOS 8 apps couldn't do anything to modify the OS besides adding push notifications and maybe a page in the settings.
  - noblethrasher 12y ago
    More "sandboxed" in the sense that iOS apps start in a small sandbox that gets progressively and opportunistically larger. Instead of demanding all permissions upon installation, they demand them contemporaneously with attempted access to certain resources. The idea is that user consent is more informed. In contrast, Android apps demand all of their permissions up front.
    - vlunkr 12y ago
      Even beyond that though, if an iOS app requests ALL possible permissions, it doesn't have the same capabilities that an android app does.
      - kelnos 12y ago
        I consider that a weakness of iOS as a platform. There are some pretty cool and useful things you can do with an Android app that you just can't do on iOS, period. Android's permission-granting model does leave much to be desired, though.
        smokeyj 12y ago
        > There are some pretty cool and useful things you can do with an Android app that you just can't do on iOS, period. Such as?
        Fargren 12y ago
        Running in the background is on I stumbled with porting an app from Android to iOS. what an an iOS app can do while it's not the current app is tremendously limited. This is for battery reasons, and I get it, but it would be nice if the choice was up to the user; instead Apple just decided the practice was unacceptable.
        kelnos 12y ago
        First things that comes to mind: Intercepting calls before they go out through the main dialer, and instead using some form of VoIP. Intercepting an incoming SMS that's used for phone number verification, rather than requiring that the user switch to their SMS app and manually enter a code. For that matter, replacing the SMS app with something better. Reasonable app backgrounding support for any purpose you can think of, not just for those that Apple has graciously allowed you to do. Hell, you couldn't even have custom keyboards on iOS until recently. Apps can also have access to stuff that iOS never allows: e.g. I have a 3rd-party app that backs up my SMS database to Google Drive every night. It can also do backups to Dropbox and a couple other services. With iOS your one and only cloud backup solution for "system related things" is iCloud, and you can't change that. None of these things require rooting the device. Yes, all of these things can be abused. But I prefer permissiveness that requires a little vigilance on my part over living in a restricted environment.
- vilmosi 12y ago
  It's downvoted because it's a troll comment that doesn't further the discussion at all. It's irrelevant. I use Android because it let's me have defaults. See? Irrelevant statement. Everyone has different needs, just drop it.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dredmorbius 12y ago
Can you expand on that?
- runeks 12y ago
  > Oh wow, can this be used to just create a separate profile for every app? That way I can run Uber or Line without giving them every permission to everything? This is the biggest reason I do not install apps. Every "famous" app requests so many permissions it's just stupid. iOS does not require the user to accept all permissions that an app wishes to use, before installing that app. On iOS, you install an app without giving it permission to much, initially, and then the app, when you start it, starts asking for permissions that it needs, as it needs them. You can deny any permission request, and the app still works. Eg. you can install the Facebook app, and deny it access to read your contact list.
  - vetinari 12y ago
    In iOS, there are about 10 permissions (location, contacts, calendars, reminders, gallery, bluetooth, microphone, motion, twitter and facebook accounts). In Android, about 150. There is no mapping 1:1. Some things iOS does not allow at all (wifi information, sd card access). Some things iOS allows by default, with no way to deny it (internet access). The iOS approach would not scale, the user would be burried under confirmation dialogs. And that's just the initial confirmation, there has to be UI, when he changes his mind later. Those, who claim that iOS approach is superior are showing their ignorance, that they newer thought about the way, how the user would set matrix of this amount of permissions with many apps, without getting lost (hint: many are getting lost just in the current system. Imagine, that they would be able to toggle anything. And imagine, what the developers would say about that).

Nicholas_C 12y ago

Isn't there an app that restricts these permissions? I believe your phone has to be rooted for it to work though.

leeoniya 12y ago
XPrivacy: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=biz.bokhorst.xprivacy.installer&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=biz.bokhorst.x... App Ops: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=droidmate.appopsinstaller&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=droidmate.appo... Also, if your phone isn't rooted, is it really yours?
MichaelGG 12y ago
Yeah, but I have a Huawei Mate 2, which, last I looked, had some really obscure rooting instructions. Most steps consisted "download this random exe and give it admin permissions". Plus you have to email Huawei and ask nicely for the bootloader unlock code. And, rooting doesn't help the majority of users. Whereas protection from spying would. But Google, perhaps accidentally, seems intent on making permissions less visible and has no problem with devs requesting every permission. And since so many major apps do this, users have no effective recourse. MS and Apple got this one so much more right.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  And Nokia before them with Symbian security.

errantmind 12y ago

CyanogenMod's Privacy Guard is useful for dealing with this situation. There is a setting to enable it by default on newly installed apps. No matter what permissions the app says it requires, you are prompted when it actually requests them and can deny them at will or permanently.

scottjad 12y ago
When you deny them, roughly how often in your experience does this cause the app to crash or display an error?
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  I think it can return valid data, like empty sets or fake data. So apps shouldn't crash at all.
  - dspillett 12y ago
    Code that assumes it is going to get data instead of allowing for an empty response (in a circumstance where this is technically possible in reality but so rare the developer didn't thing to allow/test for it) could cause misfunction.
    - pwnna 12y ago
      That sounds like a bug in the application. While I'm not exactly certain on how Privacy Guard works (I have yet to examine that code base), if a phone returns [] for a list of contacts and the application crashes...
- hundchenkatze 12y ago
  In my experience, the apps I've used don't crash. The biggest problem I've seen is me getting frustrated with an app for not working as advertised. Then I remember that I've enabled privacy guard and the app must not be getting some info it needs from the OS.
- 12y ago

cbhl 12y ago

This is more targeted for people who have an enterprise domain (Google Apps for Work, Blackberry, Citrix, etc.) That said, if you want to create a separate profile for Uber or Line, you can already do so on Android 5.0 and above: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/2865483?hl=en&ref_topic=6126546 https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/2865483?hl=en&ref_to...

thanksgiving 12y ago
Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought this was for sharing your phone with someone else or sharing your phone between two or more Google accounts... I think Facebook Messenger, Line, and the like will still have access to all permissions even if you switch to a different user and install the apps there... That being said, guest mode is really nice on my nexus 5 so my curious friends on iPhone can log in to their google account on my phone as a guest and test drive android.
- scintill76 12y ago
  I think the idea is, you create a dedicated "sandbox" account, install apps in it that you don't trust that want access to calendar, contacts, text messages, etc., and then don't put any real data of those kinds in the account. So, they still have permission to see those things, but they don't see anything when they look. Note, I have not looked deeply, so maybe it doesn't work like I said. I would not expect multitasking to be very seamless with this method. Also, I know there are some permissions that have "cross-user" abilities, so maybe there is still a way to accidentally allow an app to access your real data.

guelo 12y ago

Lollipop already added profiles. No reason you couldn't have a profile per app.

0x5f3759df-i 12y ago

You can use Xprivacy with Xposed to feed an app fake or empty data on a permission by permission basis. This works better than blocking permissions because sometimes apps don't fail gracefully when a permission is denied.

rtpg 12y ago

This is one place where iOS trumps Android. Per-permission switches on apps is really great. There's also an issue with "leaky abstractions" on android, where some useful features require extremely invasive permissions.

scrapcode 12y ago

I understand the discussion of app permissions is not a new one, but today I decided I wanted to try and buy a product through Amazon outside of the browser... Amazon specifically instructs you to navigate to your settings and allow installation of 3rd part apps. Then it directs you to download their .apk - To this point I was almost to the point of excitement that a MAJOR company is showing the public that this is even possible. Then I opened the .apk. It asked me for what has to be every permission available on Android. Why would Amazon need access to me Contacts? It even asked specifically for permission to my microphone! What?

btilly 12y ago
If they have not asked for those permissions, then how can they give those permissions to third party apps that you install through them?
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  That transitivity itself is an issue. Why cannot the installed apps request the permissions they need individually?
  - digi_owl 12y ago
    Unless i am mistaken, Amazon can't give premissions to another app install. The user has to leave the "unknown source" option checked as each APK installed goes through the same rigamarole. Play gets around this by being bundled as a system app initially. And if you have a rooted device you can potentially promote the amazon store to the same status, and so forgo the "unknown sources" switch.
    - dredmorbius 12y ago
      Thanks. I'm not familiar with the specifics.

minusSeven 12y ago

blackberry allows blackberry users to choose what permissions they won't allow access of in their apps. This doesn't work with the android apps but works rather well with blackberry apps. For example 2048 game has a lot of permission but being a game I don't allow a single one and it still works flawlessly. I would love to see something like this in android as well. But for now users are at the mercy of app developers.

fshen 12y ago

Four years of android user. Just switch to iphone6 2 month ago. Almost every app requests too many permissions. Almost every app starts a background process to receive notifications. which are very bad.

st3fan 12y ago
iOS apps do not (can not) "start a background process to receive notifications". Notifications are globally handled by the OS over a single dedicated optimized connection. And then dispatched to the individual applications.
- digi_owl 12y ago
  And i think Google introduced an API in 5.0 that offers a opt in to something similar.