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"The woman who took the photograph, Adria Richards, soon felt the wrath of the crowd herself. The man responsible for the dongle joke had posted about losing hi

• dgabriel 12y ago
  Um, sometimes? HN is big, and there are crossover populations.
• fizbin 12y ago
  I don't think HN is a bunch of MRA losers, but it's certainly closely connected to places that are. (as in, lots of people participate in HN who also participate in places that could be characterized as such) So I'd say it's MRA-loserville-adjacent.
  • deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
• potatolicious 12y ago
  HN isn't completely made up of MRA types, but if you've been noticing there are a lot of them here (along with your more typical "SJWs out to get us" types). HN is in general no longer held with the same regard it was a couple of years ago. Note the number of progressive, well-respected regulars who've left this place behind. There are other avenues to discuss tech and tech issues without ancaps, MRAs, and anti-SJW crusaders trying to internet-fight you at every turn.
  • ForHackernews 12y ago
    > There are other avenues to discuss tech and tech issues without ancaps, MRAs, and anti-SJW crusaders trying to internet-fight you at every turn. Please tell me where? I've noticed the same irritating trends here. At this rate, I might just go back to Slashdot.
    • MrLeap 12y ago
      What's the new URL for slashdot? The old one seems to point to a blog for Dice these days.
      • ForHackernews 12y ago
        http://slashdot.org/ http://slashdot.org/ AFAIK
      • Yakimoto 12y ago
        Holy crap, I haven't been there in awhile. It's almost torture to see such trash on the front page. Soon I will go there to get my TMZ updates about the hollywood stars or rappers who did something, maybe, possibly tangentially related to tech?
  • ripdog 12y ago
    If you're internet-dogpiling people or taking creepshots and getting people fired for jokes not even directed at you, I will happily internet-fight you for being an awful person. It's amazing how self-described "progressives" can come in here and happily defend this kind of behaviour. I hope you find a nice new website and never have your views challenged again.
    • deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    • potatolicious 12y ago
      I... what? Hold your horses, there's an awful lot of projection here. I haven't come in here to defend internet lynch mobs - there's literally not a word in my post condoning it. The bulk of tech progressive aren't the ones spoiling for a Twitter fight, they're the silent majority that's reading posts on HN, rolling their eyes, maybe sighing a little bit, and moving along with their lives. They're not orchestrating backlashes, brigades, or downvote chains, or any such devices. The most they're doing is emailing a link to some comment to their friends with a "sigh, HN again" quip - and I've received many such messages. Heck, I know people who read HN - but only the links - knowing what a cesspool the comments are going to be. Heck, this is me on most days. These are the people I'm talking about - the ones who've largely left this place behind because the tone of the community has shifted to one where any talk of race, gender, or even age (or in fact any talk of institutional problems in the industry) is automatically the work of professional victims (and a largely fictional narrative of a "social justice warrior") out to oppress techies. The general tenor of the community here now has a very distinctly reactionary twist, which has caused people to bail for greener pastures.
      • sejje 12y ago
        That's weird, I'm the opposite--I read HN specifically for the comments. It's not true for articles like this, which I generally don't read. But when the link is a programming article expressing an opinion on _______, I definitely want to read what HN has to say.
      • ripdog 12y ago
  • dragonwriter 12y ago
    > HN isn't completely made up of MRA types, but if you've been noticing there are a lot of them here (along with your more typical "SJWs out to get us" types). This much is true. > HN is in general no longer held with the same regard it was a couple of years ago. This may be true in some circles, but I don't think its generally true. Its probably true that HN is seen by some who participated in it earlier as less of an exclusive club of like-interested folk as it has gained popularity, but that's going to happen with any narrow forum over time that doesn't have an exclusionary wall for membership (and exclusive walls of membership have their own problems which will can erode the image of a forum over time in different ways.) > Note the number of progressive, well-respected regulars who've left this place behind. Such as...? > There are other avenues to discuss tech and tech issues without ancaps, MRAs, and anti-SJW crusaders trying to internet-fight you at every turn. Well, I suppose you could have a forum with a political litmus test for membership or heavy-handed pre-publication moderation of comments, but given how much the tech community overlaps with the ancap, MRA, and anti-SJW crusader communities -- and, perhaps more importantly, the reaction many outside those communities would have to the kind of approaches necessary to eradicate the unwanted comments -- you'd probably lose some value for actual tech and, particularly, tech issues discussions. But where do you see those better alternatives?
    • potatolicious 12y ago
      > "Such as...?" Ahah, not about to name names - the trouble with openly naming people who are opposed to MRAs/anti-SJWs is that the demographic is also very, very adept at launching internet lynch mobs. Sadly the events of the past half-year or so have succeeded in silencing some people who would otherwise speak, for fear of being doxxed, swatted, or otherwise harassed (where harassment goes above and beyond receiving angry messages of disapproval). If the people who have left HN because of the toxicity want to make themselves known, they should do that. It's not my place to direct the people they want to avoid straight to their doorstep. A good place to start would be the top posters list and seeing who's still around. Many of these folks still read HN but no longer participate in comments. Many read HN and have their commentary elsewhere. I know some of them, I certainly don't know all of them. > "you'd probably lose some value for actual tech and, particularly, tech issues discussions." Yeah, this is where idealism and values run head-first into the brick wall of reality, and no one really knows how to fix it. We like freedom of speech, we dislike heavy-handed moderation especially when it comes to things that inform our views. At the same time we have real instances of abuse, and we have even more instances where extremists in one camp can simply shout down any dissent (extremists, for some reason, have a lot more time to comment on the internet than the rest of us). I don't think anyone really knows the right answer to this. We want to preserve intelligent discussion, but at the same time give minority views held in good faith a fair shake. The solution thus far has been for people to abandon communities with toxic demographics, but that hasn't really solved the core problem - it's just hit the reset button until the new community itself attracts the wrong crowd.
• ripdog 12y ago
  A taste of her own medicine. It shouldn't have happened, but at least she only got what she gave.
  • taco_emoji 12y ago
    She gave death threats?
    • ripdog 12y ago
      She dog-whistled the mob, no doubt that mob gave death threats. People lose their shit when anonymous trolls send death threats to prominent women, but typically completely ignore the same happening to men. Perhaps women get more because they react more? Perhaps people shouldn't feed the trolls? Please don't reply to this with a pithy feel-good response like "nobody should send death threats!". It's like saying "there shouldn't be war in the world!". It's an obvious goal that everyone agrees on, but there is no way to achieve without use of totalitarian control over the world/internet - something I'm sure we can agree is unacceptable.
      • taco_emoji 12y ago
        > dog-whistled You seem to be confused about what "dog whistle" means. She wasn't using secret SJW shibboleths. > no doubt that mob gave death threats "No doubt"! What a convenient way to assert that something happened without having to provide evidence for it. > typically completely ignore the same happening to men No doubt you have evidence of this, too. No doubt you have evidence that this happens to as many men as women, and as often, so as to warrant equivalent reactions. > but there is no way to achieve without use of totalitarian control over the world/internet You need to have a very limited imagination and near-total ignorance of history to think that positive change only comes about via totalitarian means.
  • Someone1234 12y ago
    She tried, very intentionally, to use the social media "machine" to punish what she deemed deviant behaviour, the fact that that same machine turned on her is both unsurprising if you're paying attention, but also a little deserved. While the original joke was childish, I cannot think of one adult working in any industry who's never said something in a similar vein (or pointing out someone else's phasing might have a double meaning, and so on). It really has nothing to do with gender politics, she was just on a quest and picked up any small examples she could find. Nobody should have been fired. That's on the employers. However if anyone was going to be fired she deserved it the most, simply because she started this ball rolling on purpose, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
• engendered 12y ago
  It's surprising how many have fallen for the "MRA" thing. In the case of Adria Richards, she bullied a person and misrepresented a situation to the point of getting a man fired from a job, torch mob in close pursuit. I don't care if such bullies are men or women, be wary living by the sword because, as Adria learned, often you'll "die" by one (metaphorically...though someone somewhere will declare that a vile death threat from the oppressors). Torch mobs are an atrocity. They were against a gentleman making a lame but benign joke. They are against someone posting some random thought-crime tweet. They are against the people who send the torch mobs in fast pursuit. And equally to blame are people in positions of power who bend so easily to torch mobs. If you immediately fire someone for something that would be at most a warning, all because a mob demands it, you are the problem, and a coward to boot.
• lambda 12y ago
  I wouldn't say that HN "is" a bunch of MRA losers; HN is a big place, and there are a lot of different types of people on it. But there are a bunch of MRA losers on HN. How many, it's hard to tell; maybe a few that are very vocal, maybe a few with many sockpuppets, maybe a lot. If you ever get involved in a thread about any issue about women in technology, programs for encouraging women in technology, or the like, you will see them come out of the woodwork (and such threads will frequently drop off the front page as the long comment threads trigger HN's algorithm that try to discourage flamewar topics).
  • sillysaurus3 12y ago
    What's an "MRA loser"?
    • kristofferR 12y ago
      "MRA is short for Men's Rights Activist. MRAs argue that, as human beings, men should have human rights, due process in legal matters, and should not be subject to "reverse discrimination" in favor of other groups. MRAs typically point to men's lower life expectancy in almost every country, higher rates of incarceration, more severe penalties for similar offenses, lower rates of health care spending and health research spending on men, higher suicide rates, higher rates of being subject to violence and murder including by women and when they are children, higher rates of genital mutilation, liability to conscription, higher rates of death at work, various disadvantages in divorce and child support, and higher school and college dropout rates, as reasons why men's rights should be on the agenda." A lot of people feel that since men are privileged in so many areas, no effort should be expended on men's issues until every women's problem is entirely resolved. Due to that scapegoating Men's Rights Activists as people who hate women is popular.
      • sillysaurus3 12y ago
        So how does any of that make you a loser? What's going on in this thread? As far as I can tell it's nothing more than a similar type of bullying the article is itself is talking about, which I didn't ever expect to see on HN, let alone tolerated. At what point can you no longer express controversial opinions without being called a loser?
• 1123581321 12y ago
  I was surprised at the lapse in thorough reporting at that point in the article. It was because a few women in the tech community wrote about her history of passive-aggressive bullying. This made clear that it was not a men-vs-women issue and gave the backlash the legitimacy that led to Richards' dismissal.
• tomjen3 12y ago
  It just goes to show that even in an article against bullying it is okay to bully and make fun of nerds _and the nerds accept this_.