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Back when I first got into the start-up scene, I used to work long hours because everyone else did. At some point, I realized that literally nothing has to be d

Back when I first got into the start-up scene, I used to work long hours because everyone else did. At some point, I realized that literally nothing has to be done RIGHT NOW OH MY GOD RIGHT NOW. Almost everything can wait until tomorrow morning. Sure, there are some high-priority bugs that are breaking the site that need to be fixed ASAP, but during normal operating procedures, once that clock hits 5pm, I should start wrapping up my work so that I can pick it up fresh in the morning. I don't take my work home with me, I don't check my work email when I'm at home. It's just not worth the stress to me. I love my job, I love my work, I feel like I'm contributing to making the world a better place -- it's just not 100% of who I am. I have a dog, a girlfriend, a handful of close friends, a few engaging hobbies, and a ton of books to read and miles to run. I'm more than my job, and once I can pay the bills, the rest of the money is just a nice to have -- but not nice enough to give up my health and sanity. Then again, I'm extremely lucky to be in this situation, and a lot of people aren't. Some of my coworkers work long hours still, but they seem happy about it. As long as that's true,... well, whatever floats your boat, right?

dasil003 12y ago
I'm not sure if it's due to increased self-awareness, or whether it's physically due to aging, but I know for a fact that pushing over 50 hours a week will quickly lead to lower overall productivity for me. I love what I do and I used to work insane startup-level hours, but on reflection a lot of those hours are less efficient, whether due to decreased efficiency or downright procrastination when I'm too tired to deal with a difficult problem. To some extent I think tech startup culture evolved this way not just because it takes a superhuman effort to build a successful company, but also because learning to be a good programmer is something that is extremely difficult if you're not at least a little obsessed with it. My tendency to work 80 hours a week at my startup is the natural evolution of my 14-year-old self wanting to spend all my time working on the computer. But now that I have a couple decades experience under my belt, I can sit down and focus for 8 hours that will lead to far more productivity than slogging through 16 hours. Furthermore, my subconscious is able to continue working on problems during my downtime, so stepping away, getting some exercise, cooking some healthy food, sleeping 9 hours all feed back to greater overall productivity.
- LesZedCB 12y ago
  Ok, I have to ask. Geniune question here. How the fuck do you people do this? I hear stuff like this a lot, especially in the software community. Do you guys actually log 80 hours a week of doing stuff? How on earth do you "start loosing productivity" at 50 hours a week? I start loosing productivity around 40 if not before. BTW, totally not asking this to be a dick, and I really respect your work ethic and your choices for how to live. I just don't understand how people can live in that reality. Most of Europe says 40 hours of work a week is too much, and frankly I'm completely on board.
  - maaku 12y ago
    I lose serious productivity at 30hrs. But I manage to fill in the corners with mindless tasks like answering emails. I think 80 hours a week is only achievable with the help of drugs i.e. caffeine
    - dietrichepp 12y ago
      Speaking of silicon valley, it seems like it's often: * Caffeine in public, or for starters, and then adderall or something more potent, * Alcohol after work to wind down, * Maybe oxycodone or heroin. If it seems like your problems can be solved by working more hours, then you end up medicating yourself into oblivion, blowing up, or burning out. I am also baffled by the idea of working 80 hours in a week.
      - pm90 12y ago
        Well, its not just peeps in SV that use the caffeine + alcohol recipe for productivity, its pretty much all of America. Speaking anecdotally, I find that Caffeine makes me super alert and alcohol super relaxed, both of which are the intended effects. But I do make a point to not abuse either of them, simply because I don't want my senses to get numbed by their effect.
        seunosewa 12y ago
somedudethere 12y ago
That's why I love the start up I work at. We work 9-6 M-F. No weekends. No long nights. I feel like places that have a "show up at 10 and work till its late" are immature and fooling themselves thinking they have gains in productivity. Properly managing your time is a skill and one that management should help you develop. I shouldn't feel pressured to stay late because everyone else was fooling around all day. It also sets clear expectations of how hard and long you should work. There's no "Oh if I don't stay till 9 tonight will my manager think I'm not working hard?" Everyone is on the same page. Before I started working there I was one of the people that would stay up all night sometimes to finish something. come in groggy the next day and get nothing done for that day. When in reality if I spent 8.5 hours the first day working on it and 8.5 hours the second day, I would have had full mental clarity when working on the project and the added bonus of mental and physical well-being.
- arjie 12y ago
  I can't disagree more. Working 9 AM to 6 PM in San Francisco now will mean you get sunshine two hours from 7 to 9 (and that's assuming you get ready for work/play instantly). All the lovely daylight hours are wasted indoors.
  - madeofpalk 12y ago
    Lunch? Work outside? Take breaks?
  - selter01 12y ago
    Wait, what? So what do you propose? Work until 3 pm?
    - hobs 12y ago
      I like 10-7.
  - thecopy 12y ago
    Working in Sweden i get no sunsine hours no matter what schedule i follow.
SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
> Sure, there are some high-priority bugs that are breaking the site that need to be fixed ASAP This is why after making "deploy" a one-click operation, "roll back to the last deployed version" should also be a one-click operation. Fixing things "ASAP" in a panic doesn't work at all well. First get to a known good state and then do a calm assessment of the right fix, taking as much or as little time as you need (and no need to work late). I know that this doesn't work for all failures - If a server's drive fails, you still need a plan for how to repair - but it does for many common things.
- joncalhoun 12y ago
  This is also why having rules about when you can release new features or big changes is very valuable. Or at the very least training your team to stop and think about the timing before pressing the deploy button. There are rarely cases when a new feature needs released Fri at 4pm or days before a holiday break.
  - Jemaclus 12y ago
    Our general rule is no big deploys on Fridays. Minor bug fixes, maybe, but most of the time it can just wait til Monday!
- Jemaclus 12y ago
  Yep! Agreed! Usually the bugs I'm talking about are things we didn't catch until well after deployment where a hotfix makes more sense than rolling back. But you're right, if something goes wrong soon after deployment, we roll back immediately!

dasil003 12y ago

I'm not sure if it's due to increased self-awareness, or whether it's physically due to aging, but I know for a fact that pushing over 50 hours a week will quickly lead to lower overall productivity for me. I love what I do and I used to work insane startup-level hours, but on reflection a lot of those hours are less efficient, whether due to decreased efficiency or downright procrastination when I'm too tired to deal with a difficult problem. To some extent I think tech startup culture evolved this way not just because it takes a superhuman effort to build a successful company, but also because learning to be a good programmer is something that is extremely difficult if you're not at least a little obsessed with it. My tendency to work 80 hours a week at my startup is the natural evolution of my 14-year-old self wanting to spend all my time working on the computer. But now that I have a couple decades experience under my belt, I can sit down and focus for 8 hours that will lead to far more productivity than slogging through 16 hours. Furthermore, my subconscious is able to continue working on problems during my downtime, so stepping away, getting some exercise, cooking some healthy food, sleeping 9 hours all feed back to greater overall productivity.

LesZedCB 12y ago
Ok, I have to ask. Geniune question here. How the fuck do you people do this? I hear stuff like this a lot, especially in the software community. Do you guys actually log 80 hours a week of doing stuff? How on earth do you "start loosing productivity" at 50 hours a week? I start loosing productivity around 40 if not before. BTW, totally not asking this to be a dick, and I really respect your work ethic and your choices for how to live. I just don't understand how people can live in that reality. Most of Europe says 40 hours of work a week is too much, and frankly I'm completely on board.
- maaku 12y ago
  I lose serious productivity at 30hrs. But I manage to fill in the corners with mindless tasks like answering emails. I think 80 hours a week is only achievable with the help of drugs i.e. caffeine
  - dietrichepp 12y ago
    Speaking of silicon valley, it seems like it's often: * Caffeine in public, or for starters, and then adderall or something more potent, * Alcohol after work to wind down, * Maybe oxycodone or heroin. If it seems like your problems can be solved by working more hours, then you end up medicating yourself into oblivion, blowing up, or burning out. I am also baffled by the idea of working 80 hours in a week.
    - pm90 12y ago
      Well, its not just peeps in SV that use the caffeine + alcohol recipe for productivity, its pretty much all of America. Speaking anecdotally, I find that Caffeine makes me super alert and alcohol super relaxed, both of which are the intended effects. But I do make a point to not abuse either of them, simply because I don't want my senses to get numbed by their effect.
      - seunosewa 12y ago

somedudethere 12y ago

That's why I love the start up I work at. We work 9-6 M-F. No weekends. No long nights. I feel like places that have a "show up at 10 and work till its late" are immature and fooling themselves thinking they have gains in productivity. Properly managing your time is a skill and one that management should help you develop. I shouldn't feel pressured to stay late because everyone else was fooling around all day. It also sets clear expectations of how hard and long you should work. There's no "Oh if I don't stay till 9 tonight will my manager think I'm not working hard?" Everyone is on the same page. Before I started working there I was one of the people that would stay up all night sometimes to finish something. come in groggy the next day and get nothing done for that day. When in reality if I spent 8.5 hours the first day working on it and 8.5 hours the second day, I would have had full mental clarity when working on the project and the added bonus of mental and physical well-being.

arjie 12y ago
I can't disagree more. Working 9 AM to 6 PM in San Francisco now will mean you get sunshine two hours from 7 to 9 (and that's assuming you get ready for work/play instantly). All the lovely daylight hours are wasted indoors.
- madeofpalk 12y ago
  Lunch? Work outside? Take breaks?
- selter01 12y ago
  Wait, what? So what do you propose? Work until 3 pm?
  - hobs 12y ago
    I like 10-7.
- thecopy 12y ago
  Working in Sweden i get no sunsine hours no matter what schedule i follow.

SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago

> Sure, there are some high-priority bugs that are breaking the site that need to be fixed ASAP This is why after making "deploy" a one-click operation, "roll back to the last deployed version" should also be a one-click operation. Fixing things "ASAP" in a panic doesn't work at all well. First get to a known good state and then do a calm assessment of the right fix, taking as much or as little time as you need (and no need to work late). I know that this doesn't work for all failures - If a server's drive fails, you still need a plan for how to repair - but it does for many common things.

joncalhoun 12y ago
This is also why having rules about when you can release new features or big changes is very valuable. Or at the very least training your team to stop and think about the timing before pressing the deploy button. There are rarely cases when a new feature needs released Fri at 4pm or days before a holiday break.
- Jemaclus 12y ago
  Our general rule is no big deploys on Fridays. Minor bug fixes, maybe, but most of the time it can just wait til Monday!
Jemaclus 12y ago
Yep! Agreed! Usually the bugs I'm talking about are things we didn't catch until well after deployment where a hotfix makes more sense than rolling back. But you're right, if something goes wrong soon after deployment, we roll back immediately!