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‘Braid’ creator sacrifices his fortune to build his next game
- teddyh 12y agoLink to game’s own site: http://the-witness.net/ http://the-witness.net/
- melling 12y agoOne of the contributors is creating a video game from scratch in a series of videos. http://handmadehero.org http://handmadehero.org He just did day 60 today. It's probably going to take at least a year. It's quite educational to start from scratch without any libraries.
- LaneRendell 12y agoThanks for the link, cool series!
- jonathantm 12y agoI've been thinking of binge-watching this rather than Netflix shows :D I'm not into game development or C... but it looks so well done I'm sure I'd learn tons... even just watching it casually.
- dysoco 12y agoMy only issue with the series is that he uses WinAPI instead of something more... sane, like SDL or OpenGL; which makes the code much more obscure and low level, and the code not portable at all. I guess, however, that I could learn a thing or two about getting stuff done and structuring an engine/game. Wish I had the time to watch this.
- melling 12y agoHe addressed this in the FAQ. There are already ports to other platforms. https://forums.handmadehero.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8 https://forums.handmadehero.org/index.php?option=com_content...
- orbifold 12y agoActually I found that to be one of the major strength, it encouraged me to look into how the corresponding Linux API's work and made me realize that it isn't all that hard to get something like an OpenGL window (at least if you use GLEW) with basic input working. Even something like the dynamic code reloading he does by using Windows API calls, can be ported fairly trivially to Linux.
- Sphax 12y agoCool project, thanks for the link !
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- Breefield 12y agoVery stoked on The Witness but also Firewatch: www.firewatchgame.com These are the kind of games I can get down with, a good slow ambiance based puzzle game—had enough of RTS and FPS for the time being.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- justintime2002 12y ago"Jonathan Blow's beautiful, distinct 2008 platformer Braid is largely regarded as the original indie game" Really? I find this difficult to believe, considering the success of Cave Story back in 2004.
- hullo 12y agoWell, it is also not hard to think of other successful independent games that predate 2004. Or 1994. Or 1984. It seems to come down to what you mean by it? Without access to the author's mental definition of the term we can't really quibble successfully.
- kelukelugames 12y agoA lot of people love Cave Story and I am one of them. We can look at Braid's success without taking anything away from Cave Story. 1) it was on a console 2) it made the creator rich 3) it inspired a generation of puzzle platformers All three of those things contributed to the growth of the indie community.
- seanflyon 12y agoIndeed. Braid was a landmark indie game, but not the first by any stretch of the imagination.
- devindotcom 12y agoYeah, that's a bit of an odd thing to say. It may rightfully be considered among the first indie games that got mainstream attention, but 'original indie game' is rather an overstatement. Man, I need to replay Cave Story.
- frandroid 12y agoThe whole early PC gaming industry was indie games... Infocom, Sierra On-line, etc...
- everyone 12y agoyes! wtf!! id, commander keen, duke nukem, shareware etc. etc.
- frozenport 12y ago677/40 = 17 puzzles per hour?
- lambda 12y agoThat's 677 total puzzles. But remember, it says that there are in total 11 areas, of which you need to complete 7 or 8. And it says that to complete an area, you don't necessarily need to solve every puzzle within it. So let's say you need to solve, on average, 75% of the puzzles in an are to beat it. And that you need to solve 7 out of the 11 areas. That gives you (677 * 7/11) *.75 / 40 or about 8 puzzles per hour.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- simplicio 12y agoI always sort of wonder about stories like this, where fairly established game-devs have to rely on Kickstarter, or on their own funds to develop games. Seems like someone like Blow should be able to attract some investors.
- ssully 12y agoI do not know him personally, but as a distant admirer I would say he doesn't seem like he would have any interest in dealing with investors.
- hatu 12y agoMost game investors these days are mostly looking for free to play games that have a business plan beyond selling copies in (digital stores). He's very against that type of games and games as businesses instead of artform in general.
- mutagen 12y agoHe likely could. I'd speculate a couple of reasons for not taking investment: 1) Control over IP and final product. While some investors would likely give free reign to continue as he has been, identifying and coming to an agreement with them might seem time consuming, which leads to: 2) Doing business takes time, he may feel that time is better spent finishing the game. There's a good chance there are more nuanced details to his decision to borrow instead of seek investment like project progress and terms of his loan.
- hullo 12y agoWell, I think the thing you're missing is that not everybody wants investors... Blow has actively worked to help other indie developers stay independent. http://indie-fund.com/about/ http://indie-fund.com/about/
- huhtenberg 12y agoKickstarter is a pre-sales and marketing channel, especially for established game-devs.
- jared314 12y agoBlow is also attempting to build a programming language [1], based on his experience in game development. While I don't agree with his direction, so far, watching the process is very interesting. The next Jai demo was announced for Feb 11th [2]. [1] Jai: https://sites.google.com/site/jailanguageprimer/ https://sites.google.com/site/jailanguageprimer/ https://www.youtube.com/user/jblow888/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/jblow888/videos https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8541509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8541509 [2] https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/563766250711425024 https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/563766250711425024
- cromwellian 12y agoActually, he's been doing this for a while. When he was at XCF at Berkeley in the early 90s, I had contributed to his FMPL (Frobozz Magic Programming Language) project, writing MUDs in it. (I wrote a Dikumud/D&D like system). He's a wiz, and his C code was humorously commented that makes it a joy to read.
- tomsthumb 12y agois it possible to find this nowadays? things like that are always wonderful to come across.
- espadrine 12y agoJonathan Blow is also passionately into the creation of a new programming language to compete with C++, with an emphasis on performance and ease of use. https://www.youtube.com/user/jblow888/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/jblow888/videos
- breckinloggins 12y agoI really like his attitude on the turing-complete compile time metaprogramming feature: 'Yes you can shoot yourself in the foot, hang the compiler, and launch missiles at the same time. You're a good programmer or you wouldn't be using this language. So don't do that. If you do, don't do it again.' That's not always a good attitude to have in software development, but a modern language that backs away from the "wrap us all in bubble wrap" philosophy is refreshing.
- gamegoblin 12y agoAre there any common languages that allow you to do compile time metaprogramming in the language itself? I'd like to write little miniprograms which output source code and get evaluated at compile time. For example: #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> #COMPILETIME int fib(int n) { if(n < 2) return n; return fib(n-1) + fib(n-2); } int main() { printf("int fib(int n) {\n"); printf(" switch(n) {\n"); for(int i=0; i < 30; i++) { printf("case %d: return %d\n", i, fib(i)); } printf("default: return fib(n-1) + fib(n-2);\n"); printf("}\n}"); } #ENDCOMPILETIME and then at compile time that would get run and the source could generated would be: int fib(int n) { switch(n) { case 0: return 0; case 1: return 1; case 2: return 1; case 3: return 2; case 4: return 3; case 5: return 5; case 6: return 8; ... etc up to i=29... default: return fib(n-1) + fib(n-2); } }
- zamalek 12y ago> allow you to do compile time metaprogramming in the language itself That feature is called compile-time function evaluation, and there are a bunch of languages that support CTFE[1]. Blow's language has, from what I've seen, the cleanest CTFE syntax and most straightforward usage approach. In terms of what you can use today, check out D[2] (which has multiple competing ways to do CTFE). [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compile_time_function_execution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compile_time_function_execution [2]: http://dlang.org/ http://dlang.org/
- david_shaw 12y agoInteresting story, but I'd hardly call this "sacrificing his fortune." The title led me to believe that perhaps there was some sort of looming intellectual property or non-compete battle -- instead, he just spent his money in development efforts for his next game. That said, the game looks great -- and I'm sure he'll be very successful with this one, too.
- lambda 12y agoYes, this could be more accurately described as "investing his fortune", or if you want to focus more on the risk (as game development is a risky business), "bet his fortune." Loved Braid, quite interested in trying out The Witness; hope it doesn't take too long to come to a platform I can play it on, as I have neither a Windows machine, nor any consoles, nor an iOS device.
- saganus 12y agoI think part of the reason they consider he is "betting" or "risking" his fortune, is because it probably has a lot more risks than a "simple investment". i.e. he's not taking his money and putting it in a Fidelity investment account, he's spending money to create a game that might very well not sell more than a few copies and not make the money back. I guess people see him as "winning the lottery" with Braid, so now spending that "lottery money" is seen as a foolish move. However I think that spending/investing your hard-earned money in something you enjoy (developing games) is the best investment one can do, even if you do lose all your money.
- icefox 12y agoAt the same time it is sobering to learn that one of the more recent wildly successful indy games only made a few million at most.
- swah 12y agoI thought he hadn't made millions. I thought only notch had became truly rich w/ a single game?
- kelukelugames 12y agoI've followed Jonathan Blow for a while. He has a reputation for being condescending. If you follow him a Twitter then you might come to the same conclusion. But he has given some amazing talks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxFzf6yIfcc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxFzf6yIfcc <-compares games to televison https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1Fg76c4Zfg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1Fg76c4Zfg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqFu5O-oPmU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqFu5O-oPmU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjDsP5n2kSM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjDsP5n2kSM
- elpachuco 12y ago>>I've been following Jonathan Blow for a while now. He has a reputation for being condescending. If you follow him a Twitter then you might come to the same conclusion. I think that's neither here nor there in the context of this article.
- kelukelugames 12y agoI am a Jonathan Blow fan and want to encourage people to watch his talks. He's not nearly as antagonistic as Phil Fish but does say things that rub people the wrong way. Please don't interpret my message as being offensive.
- gavanwoolery 12y agoI've followed him for a while and I think it might be a little more complicated although this is definitely how it might come across to the average person. He is blunt, and seemingly socially detached at times, almost in a Carmack-ish way. I don't see this as a bad thing really, just a different type of personality. Most of the best programmers I have known have this kind of personality. Also, as mentioned his new language is definitely worth checking out. Yes, a language is only as good as its adoption/tools/history, but I definitely think C++ needs a challenger and not many people are in the position where they can risk taking on such a thing. Since money is becoming an issue, I hope he tries to fund this language somehow.
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- bronz 12y agoI am really excited for The Witness. If you ever watch one of Mr Blows interviews on Youtube you will see why. His philosophy about video games is interesting and refreshing. Particularly, his thoughts on establishing a dialogue between the player and developer through small events and patterns in the game is very insightful and inspiring. I'm sure that The Witness will be a very thoughtfully crafted game and I am definitely going to buy it. Mr Blow, if you are reading these comments, I wish you the best of luck with this game.
- rsync 12y agoI'm not sure where to insert this in the comment threads ... this seemed as good a place as any: I have never played braid, but based on an article I read online when it was released, I bought the soundtrack. It is beautiful. I've probably listened to it over 100 times. Highly recommended.
- listic 12y agoPuzzles, puzzles everywhere. I've read the interview and didn't get it - what's so great in this new game that he is spending all his money on it. I hoped there will be some ambition to the like of Ice-Pick Lodge https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1535515364/pathologic https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1535515364/pathologic or Tale of Tales http://tale-of-tales.com/videogames.php http://tale-of-tales.com/videogames.php but nope, another game with puzzles.
- nkuttler 12y agoYou probably just have to accept that pure puzzle games aren't for you. It's the same for me, and Braid is the game that made me accept that fact. I could see it was great, but I couldn't enjoy it past a certain point. No need to be negative, just move on and play games you enjoy.
- Chevalier 12y agoJust to correct you, Braid didn't succeed because it was a "pure puzzle game." Braid has an absolutely incredible story and milieu -- stunning art and music with a sad, beautiful ambiance. It helped that the puzzles are great, but I'm sure many crappy mobile games have puzzles. Braid has soul. You might as well say that Portal succeeded because of its puzzles. I mean, Portal IS a puzzle game even more than Braid is -- but what matters is the atmosphere, the immersion, and the story. Why not compare Lord of the Rings to a hiking manual while we're oversimplifying art.
- archagon 12y agoNot sure why you were downvoted — this is pretty true. At the very least, it's hard to argue that the art in Braid was absolutely top-notch for platformers at the time. I also have to say, though, that Braid was remarkably fluid for a puzzle game. What I mean is that instead of having to stand in one place and suss out each puzzle in your head, you were compelled to experiment with the game world, internalize the rules, and eventually intuit each solution. In the end, I believe I only had to "work out" a handful of puzzles in the entire game. (Contrast this to a puzzle game like Sokoban, where you pretty much have to logic out each screen. I hate those kinds of games!) With that said, it looks like The Witness is going to be a much more cerebral puzzler.
- footpath 12y agoHere's a nice thread about Jonathan Blow's view on investing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2198255 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2198255 you are better off taking the mental energy you would have expended on "investing" and subsequently worrying about your money, and instead funneling it into your creative endeavors. You will make more money that way, especially when you take a long-term view. ... If creative endeavors are profitable, you can use the resulting money to fuel more creative endeavors, thus making the world a better place. Keeping money in a bank account or publicly-traded stock does not particularly make the world a better place. Once I got approximately into the f-you money level of income, it became crystal clear how fictitious money is in the first place. I wake up one morning, and bam, I am wealthy! Why? Because someone said so and typed a number into a computer. Okay... that's kind of weird. Given that money is so fictitious and somewhat meaningless, it is a shame to give into primal hoarding impulses, just so one can see the number in one's bank account go up like a high score in a video game. It's much better to make like Elon Musk and use your money for what it is: a way to wield influence to make the world more like you would like it to be.
- nsxwolf 12y agoThis is good advice for a very narrow segment of creative people and not everyone at large. It's terrible advice for people with children, for example.
- pyrocat 12y agoI think reaching "Fuck you" levels of wealth has a very slightly different (3% higher?) definition for people with kids, but otherwise the advise is the same. Once you (or, you and your family, if you have one) are financially safe, don't hoard.
- mesh 12y agoWhy do you feel it is bad advice for people with children?
- rifung 12y ago
- alexvr 12y agoThere's something really pleasant about graphics like those in The Witness and No Man's Sky.
- DubiousPusher 12y ago"Jonathan Blow's beautiful, distinct 2008 platformer Braid is largely regarded as the original indie game..." Nah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_Story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_Story
- user_name2 12y agoIt's like a retarded monkey was set loose on a series of emotional appeals.
- sova 12y agoloved braid. go jonathan
- reledi 12y agoOne of my favourite technical talks is by Jonathan Blow: http://the-witness.net/news/2011/06/how-to-program-independent-games/ http://the-witness.net/news/2011/06/how-to-program-independe...
- stegosaurus 12y agoI think that the traditional investment mindset is suboptimal for most people. Especially the young. For example, the advice to start early on a pension is commonplace. But the young often have low disposable income, and this cuts in to other possible uses of money that have far more return on low amounts of capital. For example, taking a few months out to study in a different field. Building up a relocation fund so that you can move to a higher paying area. Working towards a property deposit. Buying cars outright instead of borrowing money to finance them. Most of those have a far better return than a few percent per annum. It's just not clearly quantifiable. And that's not even going in to the riskier things like starting a business.
- rbrogan 12y agoHe is featured in this nice documentary about indie games along with a couple of different development teams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq5HRdTyKUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq5HRdTyKUs