6 ms·

U.S. considers declassifying report on Saudi funding of al Qaeda

96 points by antr 12y ago

KaiserPro 12y ago
Its well worth looking at US <-> middle east foreign policy through the eyes of saudi arabia. Basically the Saudis have been waging a proxy war again Iran through the US and various "terror" groups. There is a school of thought that IS were initially funded via the Saudis. The blood bath in Syria is also partly funded by the Saudis. (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/18/john-mccain-senators-saudi-arabia-tour-syria-rebels http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/18/john-mccain-s... partial source.) I wish to steer clear of the whole conspiracy theory bollocks. Its much better to view the situation in the same way the previous Afghan war was waged against Russia.
- rajacombinator 12y ago
  Yep it always pays to follow the money, and the Saudis have a lot of it. Also useful to read the meta news behind the news, ie. why are we reading this headline today?
- pyre 12y ago
  > The blood bath in Syria is also partly funded by the Saudis. It's entirely possible that Saudis supported it before it became a case of full-blown ISIS.
  - dmschulman 12y ago
    With ISIS it's important to look at Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and his group, Al Qaeda in Iraq (ISI). He formally broke his affiliation with Al Qaeda when Ayman al-Zawahiri condemned ISI wanting to merge with groups in Syria (Jabhat al-Nusra in particular). A coalition of different groups from these regions make up ISIS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi#Expansion_into_Syria_and_break_with_al-Qaeda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi#Expansion_... The affiliations sound like they were achieved organically, though who knows what's really going on behind closed doors.
    - pyre 12y ago
      It seems like Saudi-support for "groups destabilizing Syria" seems the most likely reason for "Saudi support of ISIS." It's not like supporting these groups has ever come back to bite the hand that supports it. Look at Pakistan. They are finally realizing the turning a blind eye to the Taliban (because they destabilize Afghanistan which acts as a buffer against India) might actually harm them too.
Someone1234 12y ago
It is interesting that this is finally seeing light of day. When the 9/11 report came out several people (not conspiracy theorists) had legitimate questions regarding why we're bombing Afghanistan when Saudi Arabia had significantly stronger links to the events than Afghanistan did. For example most of the money, most of the people, and many of the organisations were Saudi based, and while Afghanistan's now famed "training camps" did exist, a vast majority were in Pakistan. Even Osama bin Laden (who's a Saudi national, by the way) initially denied the attack until after the US "credited" him by name (and then he just went with it). You can find videos of him denying responsibility on YT (and later accepting responsibility). I'm not seriously suggesting we should have bombed Saudi Arabia, that's bonkers, I am just saying that it seems like Saudi Arabian national's punched the US in the face while Pakistan distracted, and the US then turned around and beat up Afghanistan in "revenge." The 9/11 is pretty lacking in on crete information. I'd love to hear what historians think of it in retrospect in twenty or more years, when all the dust has settled. It raises more questions than it answers (not in the "false flag!!!" sense, but in the "so who was actually behind this???" sense). Honestly a much more believable conspiracy theory is that reputed Saudis funded it and the US and Saudi Arabia covered it up to save face while Saudi cleaned house quietly. That's totally believable and in-line with the 9/11 report, leaks, and other information.
- api 12y ago
  Ever since the Iraq war I've been of the opinion that forces within the USA shamelessly used 9/11 to pursue pet agendas that had been "on the table" for years but lacked sufficient support. Afghanistan was related to 9/11 though in all truth it probably wasn't the most important backer. Iraq had nothing to do with it at all -- it was just a foreign policy hobby horse that they use 9/11 to ram through. Meanwhile our relationship to Saudi Arabia has always reminded me of an addict resorting to sexually servicing their dealer to get their fix. SA is every bit as bad as, say, Iran, but we have a "special relationship." (Yes I'm aware that most of our oil does not physically come from SA or the Middle East, but it's the price that matters and SA has more influence over that than any other country.)
  - pyre 12y ago
jakeogh 12y ago
Chairman and Vice-Chairman of the 9/11 Commission Call For The Release Of The 28 Redacted Pages: http://youtu.be/H00l9AlYnEs http://youtu.be/H00l9AlYnEs H. RES. 428: Urging the President to Release Information Regarding the September 11, 2001, Terrorist Attacks upon the United States: https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-resolution/428/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-resolutio... Co-sponsor Thomas Massie speaks at a press conference in support of the bill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOF7wCIudA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOF7wCIudA I've invested siginificant time researching this subject. From my perspective the most important thing that folks need to know is how disinformation works. It's designed to offend. You can prevent people from looking at reliable, sourced, fact based information by attaching bad information to it.
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vvpan 12y ago
You know who probably won't be in that report - Saddam Hussein and Iraq.
dmschulman 12y ago
Adam Curtis just came out with an incredible documentary titled 'Bitter Lake' which details the origins of the United State's relationship with Saudi Arabia and how the terms of that relationship have impacted the development of terrorism in the Middle East, especially Afghanistan. It's an intrinsically relevant part of this conversation (especially considering Saudi Arabia's adherence to and history of practicing wahhabism) and I'd encourage others to check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXcpDO8_3qU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXcpDO8_3qU
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  Covered as well, briefly, in Daniel Yergin's The Prize. Oh holy hell you've got the whole thing online? Thanks!
  - dmschulman 12y ago
    Get it while it's hot! It's available in the UK on BBC's iPlayer. I think they've released it for a short time on YouTube officially.
    - dredmorbius 12y ago
      It's been got. youtube-dl FTFW.
    - dredmorbius 12y ago
      Also submitted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9008421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9008421
- jakeogh 12y ago
  His 3 part series 'The Power Of Nightmares' is also very good.
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    From what I've seen of him, everything Curtis does is excellent. "The Century of the Self" is also on my list.
dba7dba 12y ago
Saudis, too much money and too much time. And that money wasn't earned with hard work. Not a good combo there.
deleted 12y ago
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96 points by antr 12y ago

Its well worth looking at US <-> middle east foreign policy through the eyes of saudi arabia. Basically the Saudis have been waging a proxy war again Iran through the US and various "terror" groups. There is a school of thought that IS were initially funded via the Saudis. The blood bath in Syria is also partly funded by the Saudis. (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/18/john-mccain-senators-saudi-arabia-tour-syria-rebels http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/18/john-mccain-s... partial source.) I wish to steer clear of the whole conspiracy theory bollocks. Its much better to view the situation in the same way the previous Afghan war was waged against Russia.

rajacombinator 12y ago
Yep it always pays to follow the money, and the Saudis have a lot of it. Also useful to read the meta news behind the news, ie. why are we reading this headline today?
pyre 12y ago
> The blood bath in Syria is also partly funded by the Saudis. It's entirely possible that Saudis supported it before it became a case of full-blown ISIS.
- dmschulman 12y ago
  With ISIS it's important to look at Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and his group, Al Qaeda in Iraq (ISI). He formally broke his affiliation with Al Qaeda when Ayman al-Zawahiri condemned ISI wanting to merge with groups in Syria (Jabhat al-Nusra in particular). A coalition of different groups from these regions make up ISIS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi#Expansion_into_Syria_and_break_with_al-Qaeda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi#Expansion_... The affiliations sound like they were achieved organically, though who knows what's really going on behind closed doors.
  - pyre 12y ago
    It seems like Saudi-support for "groups destabilizing Syria" seems the most likely reason for "Saudi support of ISIS." It's not like supporting these groups has ever come back to bite the hand that supports it. Look at Pakistan. They are finally realizing the turning a blind eye to the Taliban (because they destabilize Afghanistan which acts as a buffer against India) might actually harm them too.

Someone1234 12y ago

It is interesting that this is finally seeing light of day. When the 9/11 report came out several people (not conspiracy theorists) had legitimate questions regarding why we're bombing Afghanistan when Saudi Arabia had significantly stronger links to the events than Afghanistan did. For example most of the money, most of the people, and many of the organisations were Saudi based, and while Afghanistan's now famed "training camps" did exist, a vast majority were in Pakistan. Even Osama bin Laden (who's a Saudi national, by the way) initially denied the attack until after the US "credited" him by name (and then he just went with it). You can find videos of him denying responsibility on YT (and later accepting responsibility). I'm not seriously suggesting we should have bombed Saudi Arabia, that's bonkers, I am just saying that it seems like Saudi Arabian national's punched the US in the face while Pakistan distracted, and the US then turned around and beat up Afghanistan in "revenge." The 9/11 is pretty lacking in on crete information. I'd love to hear what historians think of it in retrospect in twenty or more years, when all the dust has settled. It raises more questions than it answers (not in the "false flag!!!" sense, but in the "so who was actually behind this???" sense). Honestly a much more believable conspiracy theory is that reputed Saudis funded it and the US and Saudi Arabia covered it up to save face while Saudi cleaned house quietly. That's totally believable and in-line with the 9/11 report, leaks, and other information.

api 12y ago
Ever since the Iraq war I've been of the opinion that forces within the USA shamelessly used 9/11 to pursue pet agendas that had been "on the table" for years but lacked sufficient support. Afghanistan was related to 9/11 though in all truth it probably wasn't the most important backer. Iraq had nothing to do with it at all -- it was just a foreign policy hobby horse that they use 9/11 to ram through. Meanwhile our relationship to Saudi Arabia has always reminded me of an addict resorting to sexually servicing their dealer to get their fix. SA is every bit as bad as, say, Iran, but we have a "special relationship." (Yes I'm aware that most of our oil does not physically come from SA or the Middle East, but it's the price that matters and SA has more influence over that than any other country.)
- pyre 12y ago

jakeogh 12y ago

Chairman and Vice-Chairman of the 9/11 Commission Call For The Release Of The 28 Redacted Pages: http://youtu.be/H00l9AlYnEs http://youtu.be/H00l9AlYnEs H. RES. 428: Urging the President to Release Information Regarding the September 11, 2001, Terrorist Attacks upon the United States: https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-resolution/428/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-resolutio... Co-sponsor Thomas Massie speaks at a press conference in support of the bill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOF7wCIudA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOF7wCIudA I've invested siginificant time researching this subject. From my perspective the most important thing that folks need to know is how disinformation works. It's designed to offend. You can prevent people from looking at reliable, sourced, fact based information by attaching bad information to it.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

vvpan 12y ago

You know who probably won't be in that report - Saddam Hussein and Iraq.

dmschulman 12y ago

Adam Curtis just came out with an incredible documentary titled 'Bitter Lake' which details the origins of the United State's relationship with Saudi Arabia and how the terms of that relationship have impacted the development of terrorism in the Middle East, especially Afghanistan. It's an intrinsically relevant part of this conversation (especially considering Saudi Arabia's adherence to and history of practicing wahhabism) and I'd encourage others to check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXcpDO8_3qU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXcpDO8_3qU

dredmorbius 12y ago
Covered as well, briefly, in Daniel Yergin's The Prize. Oh holy hell you've got the whole thing online? Thanks!
- dmschulman 12y ago
  Get it while it's hot! It's available in the UK on BBC's iPlayer. I think they've released it for a short time on YouTube officially.
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    It's been got. youtube-dl FTFW.
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    Also submitted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9008421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9008421
jakeogh 12y ago
His 3 part series 'The Power Of Nightmares' is also very good.
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  From what I've seen of him, everything Curtis does is excellent. "The Century of the Self" is also on my list.

dba7dba 12y ago

Saudis, too much money and too much time. And that money wasn't earned with hard work. Not a good combo there.

deleted 12y ago

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