4 ms·

A decade ago I knew Jeremy, a very little. Not enough to be particularly interesting even then, yet alone now, and I haven't spoken to him since he went to jail

A decade ago I knew Jeremy, a very little. Not enough to be particularly interesting even then, yet alone now, and I haven't spoken to him since he went to jail for the first time (I think around 2005). I hugely admire his morals, and that he lives his life by them so completely. And I agree with a lot of them. But, at least from the vague impression I have based off old (and no-doubt memory-distorted) conversations with him, mainly on IRC, and on news reports in the last couple of years, I'm not too sure "possible terrorist" isn't a fitting label for him. He's always wanted to fight against big chunks of society. As far as I know he's never committed or planned to commit any violent crime, but his personality and view of the world make me think that he'd be willing to if he thought there was a greater good to come from it. The first thing he was caught and locked up for was stealing 1000s of credit cards from a right-wing website and using them - if I remember correctly, to donate to a charity. Those people who suffered at the hands of his credit card fraud were people he didn't know, but was willing to justify it morally in that they had donated or purchased something from this right wing website. And yes it was a very right-wing site, it was very much within the norms of the American political spectrum, it's not like they were neo-nazis or the KKK. Maybe I'm doing him a disservice, and maybe the FBI were just abusing terrorism laws to crack down on (relatively-)innocent hackers. But the truth is that if I were in their shoes, Jeremy Hammond would scare me as much as the next plane from Al-Queda. (And while on the subject of surveillance... I created a fake account from Tor to write this. Can't imagine anyone would really care about my saying I knew him, hell I'm 99% sure he wouldn't even remember my name, but I'd rather not make that tie if it hasn't already been made.)

rilita 12y ago
You should be very cautious about ever making long posts in any way tying yourself to people on terrorist watchlists... People generally tend to reuse specific phrases. It is entirely possible to figure out who you are just from having a good chunk of text you have written get correlated to other things you have written. Example distinct portions of your text you may be reusing "yet alone now", "(I think", "I hugely", "The first". Independently they seem meaningless but taken together they are a loose fingerprint.
- torthrowaway123 12y ago
  Already aware of that and found myself writing differently to how I normally would... though don't know nearly enough about the subject to know how much conscious changes would make. (In this case it's pretty irrelevant, fairly sure I could post "I used to know Jeremy Hammond" on my Google+ profile and it not matter. In fact, I'm pretty sure if the FBI ever cared enough about the no-doubt lengthy list of people he's come into contact with over his lifetime then my name is probably already on a list. I didn't want to tie my public name to him anyway, but probably wouldn't have been paranoid enough to move to Tor if I didnt already have it open for some shopping.)
  - rilita 12y ago
    3 of my friends all lost their jobs and were interrogated by the FBI before they came and questioned me. Just because it "seems safe" doesn't mean being associated with the wrong people can get you into trouble.
  - patcon 12y ago
    https://psal.cs.drexel.edu/index.php/JStylo-Anonymouth https://psal.cs.drexel.edu/index.php/JStylo-Anonymouth
tptacek 12y ago
As far as I know he's never committed or planned to commit any violent crime Hammond was arrested for violently protesting a holocaust-denier at a German restaurant in suburban Chicago. He and his companions entered the place wearing masks, apparently threw paint, and then glassware; one person was injured. He also also plead guilty to battery after he threw red paint at and then struck a police officer in a 2004 gay rights rally. If your definition of violence includes property damage, he was also arrested for tearing down and burning a Chicago 2016 Olympic campaign banner. The latter two incidents --- with the cops and the sign --- who gives a shit, I guess. After watching the Chicago NATO protests a few years back, I gained some sympathy for the police and what they face with "Black Bloc" "protestors", but those situations are generally so fucked up and fraught it's hard to confidently take a side; the overwhelming majority of protestors work in good faith. But the first incident --- storming a restaurant and throwing glassware because they're hosting a private event for a holocaust-denier --- that's unequivocally violent and criminal. The corrective for bad speech is more speech, not violence.
- orbifold 12y ago
  Some fraction of those black bloc people are usually agent provocateurs. At least here in germany the far right and left is subverted by payed informants and undercover police to the extend that it wasn't feasible to prosecute the most prominent far right party because a significant fraction of their leadership had been police informants for years.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    If by "agent provocateurs" you mean "assholes who are not good-faith protestors but instead seizing on the opportunity to revel in mayhem with the protection of a big crowd of people to disappear into", sure, I absolutely believe that's the case. If by "agent provocateurs" you mean "the police sent people in as agents to incite violence", you've lost me. In any case: none of that could possible apply to the Edelweiss restaurant incident with Hammond.
    - e12e 12y ago
e12e 12y ago
> (And while on the subject of surveillance... I created a fake account from Tor to write this. You know, I just watched "citizenfour" -- and one thing stuck with me: when explaining X/Keyscore targeting, Snowden mentions that you can use anything that uniquely identifies you, like an email address or a phone number... or even a password. Granted HN is served over SSL, so that shouldn't be an issue... but you know -- if you're being overly paranoid, make sure you're paranoid enough that it actually helps ;-)
- torthrowaway123 12y ago
  I dont quite follow your point - youre worried that I might have used my real email address when creating this HN account, or used the same password as a different HN account?
  - e12e 12y ago
    The same (or similar) password as any other online account you have. In theory that should be safe(r) than using the same email (obvious to most people as a key for joining data). As I said, I just saw that mentioned by Snowden in Citizenfour -- and it stuck with me, as yet another thing that could be used to track a user across accounts.

rilita 12y ago

You should be very cautious about ever making long posts in any way tying yourself to people on terrorist watchlists... People generally tend to reuse specific phrases. It is entirely possible to figure out who you are just from having a good chunk of text you have written get correlated to other things you have written. Example distinct portions of your text you may be reusing "yet alone now", "(I think", "I hugely", "The first". Independently they seem meaningless but taken together they are a loose fingerprint.

torthrowaway123 12y ago
Already aware of that and found myself writing differently to how I normally would... though don't know nearly enough about the subject to know how much conscious changes would make. (In this case it's pretty irrelevant, fairly sure I could post "I used to know Jeremy Hammond" on my Google+ profile and it not matter. In fact, I'm pretty sure if the FBI ever cared enough about the no-doubt lengthy list of people he's come into contact with over his lifetime then my name is probably already on a list. I didn't want to tie my public name to him anyway, but probably wouldn't have been paranoid enough to move to Tor if I didnt already have it open for some shopping.)
- rilita 12y ago
  3 of my friends all lost their jobs and were interrogated by the FBI before they came and questioned me. Just because it "seems safe" doesn't mean being associated with the wrong people can get you into trouble.
- patcon 12y ago
  https://psal.cs.drexel.edu/index.php/JStylo-Anonymouth https://psal.cs.drexel.edu/index.php/JStylo-Anonymouth

tptacek 12y ago

As far as I know he's never committed or planned to commit any violent crime Hammond was arrested for violently protesting a holocaust-denier at a German restaurant in suburban Chicago. He and his companions entered the place wearing masks, apparently threw paint, and then glassware; one person was injured. He also also plead guilty to battery after he threw red paint at and then struck a police officer in a 2004 gay rights rally. If your definition of violence includes property damage, he was also arrested for tearing down and burning a Chicago 2016 Olympic campaign banner. The latter two incidents --- with the cops and the sign --- who gives a shit, I guess. After watching the Chicago NATO protests a few years back, I gained some sympathy for the police and what they face with "Black Bloc" "protestors", but those situations are generally so fucked up and fraught it's hard to confidently take a side; the overwhelming majority of protestors work in good faith. But the first incident --- storming a restaurant and throwing glassware because they're hosting a private event for a holocaust-denier --- that's unequivocally violent and criminal. The corrective for bad speech is more speech, not violence.

orbifold 12y ago
Some fraction of those black bloc people are usually agent provocateurs. At least here in germany the far right and left is subverted by payed informants and undercover police to the extend that it wasn't feasible to prosecute the most prominent far right party because a significant fraction of their leadership had been police informants for years.
- tptacek 12y ago
  If by "agent provocateurs" you mean "assholes who are not good-faith protestors but instead seizing on the opportunity to revel in mayhem with the protection of a big crowd of people to disappear into", sure, I absolutely believe that's the case. If by "agent provocateurs" you mean "the police sent people in as agents to incite violence", you've lost me. In any case: none of that could possible apply to the Edelweiss restaurant incident with Hammond.
  - e12e 12y ago

e12e 12y ago

> (And while on the subject of surveillance... I created a fake account from Tor to write this. You know, I just watched "citizenfour" -- and one thing stuck with me: when explaining X/Keyscore targeting, Snowden mentions that you can use anything that uniquely identifies you, like an email address or a phone number... or even a password. Granted HN is served over SSL, so that shouldn't be an issue... but you know -- if you're being overly paranoid, make sure you're paranoid enough that it actually helps ;-)

torthrowaway123 12y ago
I dont quite follow your point - youre worried that I might have used my real email address when creating this HN account, or used the same password as a different HN account?
- e12e 12y ago
  The same (or similar) password as any other online account you have. In theory that should be safe(r) than using the same email (obvious to most people as a key for joining data). As I said, I just saw that mentioned by Snowden in Citizenfour -- and it stuck with me, as yet another thing that could be used to track a user across accounts.