7 ms·

I agree that parents should tell their kids how much they make. Even better, bring them in on the budgeting process, explain how much of their paycheck goes to

I agree that parents should tell their kids how much they make. Even better, bring them in on the budgeting process, explain how much of their paycheck goes to taxes, etc. I was raised not knowing any of that -- my mother absolutely hated talking about her finances with me. So I never really had a clue what a reasonable wage or salary was, or how much I would actually lose to taxes, or what a reasonable budget was... and of course, none of that stuff was taught in high school, either. Even with the FAFSA, etc., I remember being told to just sign it and my mother would insist on taking the form and going to fill in the blanks herself. I think that parents talking to their children about this kind of thing provides them with a healthier financial barometer overall, which would be useful when they start getting pounded with credit card pre-approval letters out of the blue. Edit: Even now, as a 29-year-old adult, I have no clue what my mother makes, what (if anything) she has for retirement, what she inherited from her father last year, the status of the house she lives in, etc. She just won't talk about that kind of thing because it "has nothing to do with me." As a child, it can be a handicap, but as an adult, it can be massively stressful. I can understand the need to be independent (especially as a single mother), but money is just a sensitive topic when there isn't a lot.

adnrw 12y ago
My parents were incredibly insistent that my sister and I understand how they did their personal and business finances and it's among the best things they taught us (neck-and-neck with how to cook). They ran their own business until I was in my mid-20s, so during school holidays we would often go with them to work. In addition to us helping out in their warehouse, they also used to get us to do things like writing up the deposit slips for incoming cheques to take to the bank. They seemed like menial chores at the time to keep us busy, but it really did help us understand how the whole thing worked. They essentially showed us "this is how we do it and why" rather than saying "this is how you must do it" and considering nothing like that was taught to us at school, in hindsight I am very grateful for it. So yes, definitely bring your kids in as much as possible on finances - even the most basic things like budgeting to live within your means is essential.
untog 12y ago
This is all very well when finances are good. But a friend of mine grew up poor, and their mother held back nothing in telling them exactly how broke the family was. To this day they are extremely jittery about all things financial - I think there is such a thing as too young to be worrying about money. But when you're a young adult, absolutely.
xrange 12y ago
>Even now, as a 29-year-old adult, I have no clue what my mother makes... Just curious, what would you do with that information if you had it?
- MiguelHudnandez 12y ago
  I am not who you asked, but I don't know much about my parents' finances, either. If I had access to that information I could make educated guesses about how to care for them as they age. Are they able to retire? How long can they live before they are out of money? How much do I need to have saved by the time they are X years old to ensure they are cared for? Unless I was going to let them live on the street, it's something I must consider.
- sdrothrock 12y ago
  Well, more than the salary (which I do suspect is low), I would like to know her retirement/medical budget since she's heading for retirement and her family has a history of very heavy medical issues (Parkinson's and Alzheimer's).
  - rev_bird 12y ago
    This is why I'm especially skeptical of her assertion that is "has nothing to do with you." It _does_, because if/when she needs help, of course you're going to want to be there. Still I can't think of a way to say "It is my business because it's possible that one day you will have dementia and I'll have to pay for someone to care for you all day."
    - stavrianos 12y ago
      Sure, the assertion is fallacious. Pointing that out doesn't actually change anything, though. You can't force intimacy (and sharing otherwise private/sensitive information can definitely qualify if you feel that way) where it's not welcome. The 'problem' (if you see it as one) is that sdrothrock's mother doesn't see them as an ally on this front. That's what'd need to change.
    - 12y ago
markc 12y ago
I'm in favor of this sort of disclosure in principle, but I have a (perhaps uncommon) problem with it. I don't want to disclose my income because my kids are unlikely to ever earn what I do - and I don't want them ever to feel bad about it, and I don't think the budgeting aspect would be very useful/instructive given that it's "not normal". We have lived far below our means, and I'm a known cheapskate. While my kids know we're "comfortable" the frugality seems to have rubbed off. They're savers (agonizing over substantial purchases, delaying gratification) and when they earn wages or get monetary gifts it goes in the bank rather than into clothes/gadgets/cars. I'm proud of that. They recoiled at my hints that they might consider a college major that would lead to a decent wage, claiming that they don't care about status buying and owning stuff. I hope it lasts beyond youthful idealism. So here's the thing. If I show them my salary, it's likely 3X to 4X what they'll ever earn (based on median wages for college grads) so I can't show them "reasonable". I can show them some sort of freak-show budget with >60% going into savings, but it's still not likely to be very useful to them. Part of me wants to share this info, and I'm happy to hear other opinions, but on balance it seems like it could do more harm them good. They're already financially wise for their ages. Maybe I should just show them our bills? Then they'd at least know what it takes to run an average home.
- sdrothrock 12y ago
  Why not be frank about it, if they're old enough? Tell them just what you wrote here and be honest about why you make so much and why they should not take that as a "normal" salary. Maybe talk in terms of percentages -- rent/housing this percent, expect taxes to be this percent, food this percent, etc. As a child (rather than a parent), for me, this: 1. Reinforces that saving is something everyone should be doing no matter what their income. 2. Helps reassure me that parent is making and saving enough to retire. 3. Gives me passive reinforcement in knowing that other people are also budgeting [despite whatever they make].
- MiguelHudnandez 12y ago
  It sounds like you've already done a great job instilling the virtues of budgeting and the value of money. I don't think you need to share your salary. If you still had young kids, you could share instead your budgeted amount. Just don't even consider the savings income as being in the picture. I think the strength of the lesson is to go from "wow, that's a lot of money on the table that I can touch," to "wow, almost all of it is gone due to overhead." A secondary lesson is the concept of private information, formation of trust with sensitive sharing, and the harm in gossip.
cortesoft 12y ago
I really can't understand the mentality of hiding financial information from your kids. I learned about budgeting and how to allocate your money at the same time I learned about what money was; the two concepts were inseparable for me. My parents always shared their thought processes when they would decide to spend money on things. They showed me how they were saving for retirement, and what things they were considering when deciding how much to save. We would often have family budget meetings, where we could all make our cases as to why we should spend more on one thing than another. Of course, my parents always had the final say, but they would listen to me and explain why they made the decisions they did (sorry, your sister's braces are a higher priority than your PowerWheel car). Because of this early exposure, I never had the same financial problems my friends did, even when I was a very poor student and recent grad. I never accumulated credit card debt, nor did I buy a car that was too expensive for my budget. I always saved for retirement, starting with my first job. Budgeting and money management is just second nature to me. I can't think of a single argument as to why you would want to hide this valuable learning experience from your kids.
- sdrothrock 12y ago
  > I can't think of a single argument as to why you would want to hide this valuable learning experience from your kids. For me, the top ones to bubble up are 1. Shame 2. Embarrassment 3. Trying to shield children from difficulties
  - cortesoft 12y ago
    Fair enough, I guess I could have imagined arguments... I just don't feel they are very good ones. Your kids are your family, they are going to pick up on any shame and embarrassment you feel, and hiding the details isn't going to make them not see that in you. Explaining the actual situation might actually make them feel better, rather than their own guesses as to why their parents are ashamed and embarrassed. Same with shielding your children from difficulties; they are going to sense things, and their imagination will be worse than the reality. Tell them your problems, but do so in a way that conveys your confidence that you can overcome them. You are teaching them about life, which is really just a series of difficulties that you overcome.
grecy 12y ago
> So I never really had a clue what a reasonable wage or salary was, or how much I would actually lose to taxes, or what a reasonable budget was... and of course, none of that stuff was taught in high school, either. A few years ago in Guatemala I bumped into a bunch of American final-year dentistry students who were volunteering down there. They were all around 22-24 and extremely friendly, so we got to talking. It eventually came out that they all knew they were going to make ~$120k a year when they started work, but they had no idea what that meant. One guy admitted he had no idea if he'd be driving a Porsche or a civic on that salary, and another wondered if he could buy a house outright, would have to get a mortgage, or wouldn't be able to afford a house at all and would rent in a share house his whole life. I honestly believe their parents had done them a massive disservice.
- sysk 12y ago
  I'm actually wondering about the "Porsche or a civic" question now. Can you afford a Porsche on ~$120k a year in the US? (I'm not a car guy)
  - philsnow 12y ago
    define "afford". lots of people see that they have around $300 left over every month after paying rent, food, verizon and cable tv, and drop that directly on a $300/month BMW lease. can they afford that?
    - sysk 12y ago
      I was hoping there would be an obvious answer. I guess I could rephrase the question this way: "is it common for people who make ~120k/year to drive a Porsche?" or "if you'd have a median income of all Porsche owners, what would it be?". I just want to get a general idea.
      - bagels 12y ago
        Is it common? No. Is it possible? Yes.
mathattack 12y ago
When you hit a certain age, it does have something to do with you. At some point you may need to take financial or physical care of your Mom. That said, it's not an easy topic to broach. But better to do it while she still has her wits. (I've taken care of one parent, and perhaps have another on the way. Much easier to sort through stuff while they still can explain it.)
petercooper 12y ago
Even now, as a 29-year-old adult, I have no clue what my mother makes Hey, my wife doesn't know how much I make. But nor does she care. If she asked, I wouldn't hide it :) It is unusual to know other people's income in the culture I grew up in and live in here in the UK though, so it's not too bizarre.
- wink 12y ago
  Now that sounds really weird to me, and here in Germany people aren't publishing their salaries either. But I can't imagine not even stumbling over it by chance after at least a few years. Apparently you're a lot less likely than I am to let your bank statements on your desk or the kitchen table.

adnrw 12y ago

My parents were incredibly insistent that my sister and I understand how they did their personal and business finances and it's among the best things they taught us (neck-and-neck with how to cook). They ran their own business until I was in my mid-20s, so during school holidays we would often go with them to work. In addition to us helping out in their warehouse, they also used to get us to do things like writing up the deposit slips for incoming cheques to take to the bank. They seemed like menial chores at the time to keep us busy, but it really did help us understand how the whole thing worked. They essentially showed us "this is how we do it and why" rather than saying "this is how you must do it" and considering nothing like that was taught to us at school, in hindsight I am very grateful for it. So yes, definitely bring your kids in as much as possible on finances - even the most basic things like budgeting to live within your means is essential.

untog 12y ago

This is all very well when finances are good. But a friend of mine grew up poor, and their mother held back nothing in telling them exactly how broke the family was. To this day they are extremely jittery about all things financial - I think there is such a thing as too young to be worrying about money. But when you're a young adult, absolutely.

xrange 12y ago

>Even now, as a 29-year-old adult, I have no clue what my mother makes... Just curious, what would you do with that information if you had it?

MiguelHudnandez 12y ago
I am not who you asked, but I don't know much about my parents' finances, either. If I had access to that information I could make educated guesses about how to care for them as they age. Are they able to retire? How long can they live before they are out of money? How much do I need to have saved by the time they are X years old to ensure they are cared for? Unless I was going to let them live on the street, it's something I must consider.
sdrothrock 12y ago
Well, more than the salary (which I do suspect is low), I would like to know her retirement/medical budget since she's heading for retirement and her family has a history of very heavy medical issues (Parkinson's and Alzheimer's).
- rev_bird 12y ago
  This is why I'm especially skeptical of her assertion that is "has nothing to do with you." It _does_, because if/when she needs help, of course you're going to want to be there. Still I can't think of a way to say "It is my business because it's possible that one day you will have dementia and I'll have to pay for someone to care for you all day."
  - stavrianos 12y ago
    Sure, the assertion is fallacious. Pointing that out doesn't actually change anything, though. You can't force intimacy (and sharing otherwise private/sensitive information can definitely qualify if you feel that way) where it's not welcome. The 'problem' (if you see it as one) is that sdrothrock's mother doesn't see them as an ally on this front. That's what'd need to change.
  - 12y ago

markc 12y ago

I'm in favor of this sort of disclosure in principle, but I have a (perhaps uncommon) problem with it. I don't want to disclose my income because my kids are unlikely to ever earn what I do - and I don't want them ever to feel bad about it, and I don't think the budgeting aspect would be very useful/instructive given that it's "not normal". We have lived far below our means, and I'm a known cheapskate. While my kids know we're "comfortable" the frugality seems to have rubbed off. They're savers (agonizing over substantial purchases, delaying gratification) and when they earn wages or get monetary gifts it goes in the bank rather than into clothes/gadgets/cars. I'm proud of that. They recoiled at my hints that they might consider a college major that would lead to a decent wage, claiming that they don't care about status buying and owning stuff. I hope it lasts beyond youthful idealism. So here's the thing. If I show them my salary, it's likely 3X to 4X what they'll ever earn (based on median wages for college grads) so I can't show them "reasonable". I can show them some sort of freak-show budget with >60% going into savings, but it's still not likely to be very useful to them. Part of me wants to share this info, and I'm happy to hear other opinions, but on balance it seems like it could do more harm them good. They're already financially wise for their ages. Maybe I should just show them our bills? Then they'd at least know what it takes to run an average home.

sdrothrock 12y ago
Why not be frank about it, if they're old enough? Tell them just what you wrote here and be honest about why you make so much and why they should not take that as a "normal" salary. Maybe talk in terms of percentages -- rent/housing this percent, expect taxes to be this percent, food this percent, etc. As a child (rather than a parent), for me, this: 1. Reinforces that saving is something everyone should be doing no matter what their income. 2. Helps reassure me that parent is making and saving enough to retire. 3. Gives me passive reinforcement in knowing that other people are also budgeting [despite whatever they make].
MiguelHudnandez 12y ago
It sounds like you've already done a great job instilling the virtues of budgeting and the value of money. I don't think you need to share your salary. If you still had young kids, you could share instead your budgeted amount. Just don't even consider the savings income as being in the picture. I think the strength of the lesson is to go from "wow, that's a lot of money on the table that I can touch," to "wow, almost all of it is gone due to overhead." A secondary lesson is the concept of private information, formation of trust with sensitive sharing, and the harm in gossip.

cortesoft 12y ago

I really can't understand the mentality of hiding financial information from your kids. I learned about budgeting and how to allocate your money at the same time I learned about what money was; the two concepts were inseparable for me. My parents always shared their thought processes when they would decide to spend money on things. They showed me how they were saving for retirement, and what things they were considering when deciding how much to save. We would often have family budget meetings, where we could all make our cases as to why we should spend more on one thing than another. Of course, my parents always had the final say, but they would listen to me and explain why they made the decisions they did (sorry, your sister's braces are a higher priority than your PowerWheel car). Because of this early exposure, I never had the same financial problems my friends did, even when I was a very poor student and recent grad. I never accumulated credit card debt, nor did I buy a car that was too expensive for my budget. I always saved for retirement, starting with my first job. Budgeting and money management is just second nature to me. I can't think of a single argument as to why you would want to hide this valuable learning experience from your kids.

sdrothrock 12y ago
> I can't think of a single argument as to why you would want to hide this valuable learning experience from your kids. For me, the top ones to bubble up are 1. Shame 2. Embarrassment 3. Trying to shield children from difficulties
- cortesoft 12y ago
  Fair enough, I guess I could have imagined arguments... I just don't feel they are very good ones. Your kids are your family, they are going to pick up on any shame and embarrassment you feel, and hiding the details isn't going to make them not see that in you. Explaining the actual situation might actually make them feel better, rather than their own guesses as to why their parents are ashamed and embarrassed. Same with shielding your children from difficulties; they are going to sense things, and their imagination will be worse than the reality. Tell them your problems, but do so in a way that conveys your confidence that you can overcome them. You are teaching them about life, which is really just a series of difficulties that you overcome.

grecy 12y ago

> So I never really had a clue what a reasonable wage or salary was, or how much I would actually lose to taxes, or what a reasonable budget was... and of course, none of that stuff was taught in high school, either. A few years ago in Guatemala I bumped into a bunch of American final-year dentistry students who were volunteering down there. They were all around 22-24 and extremely friendly, so we got to talking. It eventually came out that they all knew they were going to make ~$120k a year when they started work, but they had no idea what that meant. One guy admitted he had no idea if he'd be driving a Porsche or a civic on that salary, and another wondered if he could buy a house outright, would have to get a mortgage, or wouldn't be able to afford a house at all and would rent in a share house his whole life. I honestly believe their parents had done them a massive disservice.

sysk 12y ago
I'm actually wondering about the "Porsche or a civic" question now. Can you afford a Porsche on ~$120k a year in the US? (I'm not a car guy)
- philsnow 12y ago
  define "afford". lots of people see that they have around $300 left over every month after paying rent, food, verizon and cable tv, and drop that directly on a $300/month BMW lease. can they afford that?
  - sysk 12y ago
    I was hoping there would be an obvious answer. I guess I could rephrase the question this way: "is it common for people who make ~120k/year to drive a Porsche?" or "if you'd have a median income of all Porsche owners, what would it be?". I just want to get a general idea.
    - bagels 12y ago
      Is it common? No. Is it possible? Yes.

mathattack 12y ago

When you hit a certain age, it does have something to do with you. At some point you may need to take financial or physical care of your Mom. That said, it's not an easy topic to broach. But better to do it while she still has her wits. (I've taken care of one parent, and perhaps have another on the way. Much easier to sort through stuff while they still can explain it.)

petercooper 12y ago

Even now, as a 29-year-old adult, I have no clue what my mother makes Hey, my wife doesn't know how much I make. But nor does she care. If she asked, I wouldn't hide it :) It is unusual to know other people's income in the culture I grew up in and live in here in the UK though, so it's not too bizarre.

wink 12y ago
Now that sounds really weird to me, and here in Germany people aren't publishing their salaries either. But I can't imagine not even stumbling over it by chance after at least a few years. Apparently you're a lot less likely than I am to let your bank statements on your desk or the kitchen table.