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"Detector vans" are a myth. There is no reliable evidence that they exist. The BBC likes to perpetuate this myth for obvious reasons. EDIT: sorry, I mean ther

by rtb 12y ago

"Detector vans" are a myth. There is no reliable evidence that they exist. The BBC likes to perpetuate this myth for obvious reasons. EDIT: sorry, I mean there is no reliable evidence that they are actually used for enforcement. Several vans do exist that were used in TV advertising to start this myth. Whether they worked or not is very debatable. (Certainly their supposed detection mechanism wouldn't work with LCD TVs, now more common than CRT TVs.)

k-mcgrady 12y ago
I know somebody who covered their TV in tin foil to prevent detector vans. Some of the myths about TV licensing are taken really seriously :)
pjc50 12y ago
The linked FOI answer contains the sentence "I can confirm that TV detector vans do exist". Admittedly that's a claim rather than evidence, and it's not inconsistent with them being fake vans. Again, unaccountable surveillance.
- rtb 12y ago
  They do "exist", in the literal sense of the word. You can see a picture of one on the wikipedia page about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom#Detection_technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_Uni... However, they have never been used for enforcing TV licensing. They are entirely a publicity stunt / a myth put about by the BBC to scare people into buying a license.
  - mtmail 12y ago
    We had vans with antennas like that driving around in Germany in the 80s. Similar TV licence, similar myth. I'm sure they just measured signal strength to find out if they have to add more cell towers.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
pbhjpbhj 12y ago
Well the vans seem real, http://www.bbctvlicence.com/Detect%20the%20Detector%20vans.htm http://www.bbctvlicence.com/Detect%20the%20Detector%20vans.h..., but yes their being equipped with detector equipment is probably not real. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/55922/response/164153/attach/html/4/IR2011006%20TVL%20response%20following%20IR%20final.pdf.html https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/55922/response/164153... however is a FOI response from TVL (run by Capita IIRC) that "TVL uses detection evidence when applying for search warrants". But "detection evidence" is not defined and probably means the guy in the van seeing a CTV connection/aerial/dish or looking through the window and seeing a TV???
- joezydeco 12y ago
  Couldn't they just be looking through house windows for a 50Hz flicker? Wouldn't that be enough to indicate a TV is in oepration?
  - finkler 12y ago
    Perhaps, a laser or directional acoustic device that can detect such activity. Electromagnetic monitoring from space.
  - raverbashing 12y ago
    Incandescent lamps will also present the flicker I agree, Detector Vans are mostly a deterrent, but nothing technological about them Most "TV detection" that's done is actually someone looking at the window and seeing a TV, or by other means.
    - joezydeco 12y ago
      There's always this, although it probably doesn't work on LCD screens: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ieee02-optical.pdf https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ieee02-optical.pdf
  - Flimm 12y ago
    You don't need a license to turn the TV on to play on your console for example.
wodenokoto 12y ago
In support of your stance, Danish Radio (Danish version of BBC, including TV, radio, internet etc.) have not only admitted to using fake detector vans, but even went so far as to by on the roof taxi ads displaying a message akin to "This is a detector van"
gumby 12y ago
> "Detector vans" are a myth. True, true, but how wonderful that they gave birth to Monty Python's "roving cat detector vans"! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_Licence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_Licence
christop 12y ago
About 15 years ago, there was a TV Licensing van that was often parked around the corner from my house. I vaguely recall that it said "detection unit" on the side or something similar, and it had heavily-tinted windows. However, if you went right up to it and peered hard enough through the windows, you could see that it was just a regular minibus with seating and no equipment inside.
zero_iq 12y ago
The vans are simply for awareness and transport for the investigators who visit a percentage of addresses that do not have a licence. Here is a TV Licencing employee admitting as much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg5t4jVBemE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg5t4jVBemE The backs of the vans are empty, and are sometimes parked in prominent places with a lot of passing pedestrian or vehicle traffic, e.g. supermarket car parks, as a reminder/scare-tactic for people to buy a licence, in locations where TV licence evasion is suspected. This is how TV detection works: 1. TV Licencing (actually the BBC, see below) maintain a database of every address in the UK, compiled from various sources. 2. The vast majority of addresses are covered by a TV licence, because, seriously, who hasn't got a TV. 3. The remaining addresses without a licence may be randomly select for investigation ('detection'), and an investigator sent to the address in a 'detector van' (just used for transport), or may be selected on the basis of 'intelligence', i.e. snitching neighbours, disgruntled employees, etc. 4. If the address doesn't qualify for a TV licence, e.g. non-permanent resident of a static caravan or other extenuating circumstances, then the address details are amended as such in the database. 5. If the address would normally qualify for a licence, then the 'detector' (human investigator) will see if there is evidence of watching TV, and may knock on the door to talk to the occupants. 6. At this point, TV Licencing can, if satisfied, mark the address as (temporarily) not requiring a TV licence, or pursue further action, e.g. legal action. Periodically, the address will be sent letters reminding them that they don't have a licence, and should probably get one, regardless. No 'electronic detection' equipment is used, other than laptops and PDA-type devices that have access to the address database, or portions of it. These are the rumoured 'handheld detectors'. That's it. All the detection equipment rumours are just that: scare-mongering tactics by the BBC. "TV Licencing" itself is maintained as a brand distinct from the BBC to avoid tarnishing the image of the BBC's main brand with such rumours of snooping, scare-tactics, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the BBC itself has not actually used any RIPA powers, but is just spreading the rumour that it has done so. Hence the vagueness of the report.
- dia80 12y ago
  I don't have a TV and I've not had a letter for years. It's hillariuos when people from call centres in India call to sell TV related services. Their script clearly doesn't have that contingency catered for.

by rtb 12y ago

k-mcgrady 12y ago

I know somebody who covered their TV in tin foil to prevent detector vans. Some of the myths about TV licensing are taken really seriously :)

pjc50 12y ago

The linked FOI answer contains the sentence "I can confirm that TV detector vans do exist". Admittedly that's a claim rather than evidence, and it's not inconsistent with them being fake vans. Again, unaccountable surveillance.

rtb 12y ago
They do "exist", in the literal sense of the word. You can see a picture of one on the wikipedia page about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom#Detection_technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_Uni... However, they have never been used for enforcing TV licensing. They are entirely a publicity stunt / a myth put about by the BBC to scare people into buying a license.
- mtmail 12y ago
  We had vans with antennas like that driving around in Germany in the 80s. Similar TV licence, similar myth. I'm sure they just measured signal strength to find out if they have to add more cell towers.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

pbhjpbhj 12y ago

Well the vans seem real, http://www.bbctvlicence.com/Detect%20the%20Detector%20vans.htm http://www.bbctvlicence.com/Detect%20the%20Detector%20vans.h..., but yes their being equipped with detector equipment is probably not real. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/55922/response/164153/attach/html/4/IR2011006%20TVL%20response%20following%20IR%20final.pdf.html https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/55922/response/164153... however is a FOI response from TVL (run by Capita IIRC) that "TVL uses detection evidence when applying for search warrants". But "detection evidence" is not defined and probably means the guy in the van seeing a CTV connection/aerial/dish or looking through the window and seeing a TV???

joezydeco 12y ago
Couldn't they just be looking through house windows for a 50Hz flicker? Wouldn't that be enough to indicate a TV is in oepration?
- finkler 12y ago
  Perhaps, a laser or directional acoustic device that can detect such activity. Electromagnetic monitoring from space.
- raverbashing 12y ago
  Incandescent lamps will also present the flicker I agree, Detector Vans are mostly a deterrent, but nothing technological about them Most "TV detection" that's done is actually someone looking at the window and seeing a TV, or by other means.
  - joezydeco 12y ago
    There's always this, although it probably doesn't work on LCD screens: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ieee02-optical.pdf https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ieee02-optical.pdf
- Flimm 12y ago
  You don't need a license to turn the TV on to play on your console for example.

wodenokoto 12y ago

In support of your stance, Danish Radio (Danish version of BBC, including TV, radio, internet etc.) have not only admitted to using fake detector vans, but even went so far as to by on the roof taxi ads displaying a message akin to "This is a detector van"

gumby 12y ago

> "Detector vans" are a myth. True, true, but how wonderful that they gave birth to Monty Python's "roving cat detector vans"! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_Licence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_Licence

christop 12y ago

About 15 years ago, there was a TV Licensing van that was often parked around the corner from my house. I vaguely recall that it said "detection unit" on the side or something similar, and it had heavily-tinted windows. However, if you went right up to it and peered hard enough through the windows, you could see that it was just a regular minibus with seating and no equipment inside.

zero_iq 12y ago

The vans are simply for awareness and transport for the investigators who visit a percentage of addresses that do not have a licence. Here is a TV Licencing employee admitting as much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg5t4jVBemE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg5t4jVBemE The backs of the vans are empty, and are sometimes parked in prominent places with a lot of passing pedestrian or vehicle traffic, e.g. supermarket car parks, as a reminder/scare-tactic for people to buy a licence, in locations where TV licence evasion is suspected. This is how TV detection works: 1. TV Licencing (actually the BBC, see below) maintain a database of every address in the UK, compiled from various sources. 2. The vast majority of addresses are covered by a TV licence, because, seriously, who hasn't got a TV. 3. The remaining addresses without a licence may be randomly select for investigation ('detection'), and an investigator sent to the address in a 'detector van' (just used for transport), or may be selected on the basis of 'intelligence', i.e. snitching neighbours, disgruntled employees, etc. 4. If the address doesn't qualify for a TV licence, e.g. non-permanent resident of a static caravan or other extenuating circumstances, then the address details are amended as such in the database. 5. If the address would normally qualify for a licence, then the 'detector' (human investigator) will see if there is evidence of watching TV, and may knock on the door to talk to the occupants. 6. At this point, TV Licencing can, if satisfied, mark the address as (temporarily) not requiring a TV licence, or pursue further action, e.g. legal action. Periodically, the address will be sent letters reminding them that they don't have a licence, and should probably get one, regardless. No 'electronic detection' equipment is used, other than laptops and PDA-type devices that have access to the address database, or portions of it. These are the rumoured 'handheld detectors'. That's it. All the detection equipment rumours are just that: scare-mongering tactics by the BBC. "TV Licencing" itself is maintained as a brand distinct from the BBC to avoid tarnishing the image of the BBC's main brand with such rumours of snooping, scare-tactics, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the BBC itself has not actually used any RIPA powers, but is just spreading the rumour that it has done so. Hence the vagueness of the report.

dia80 12y ago
I don't have a TV and I've not had a letter for years. It's hillariuos when people from call centres in India call to sell TV related services. Their script clearly doesn't have that contingency catered for.