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What taking my daughter to a comic book store taught me

• daktanis 12y ago
  I worked at a comic shop for 4 years, we pride ourselves on having a good "Kids/all ages" section of stuff that was more in line with what kids saw on TV; Justice League, The Avengers, Young Justice, Batman Brave and the Bold, avatar the last Airbender, adventure time, etc. That shop sounds like they need to stock better.
• ck2 12y ago
  Harvey Quinn isn't a superhero or "role model" either like Superman/Batman. Ms. Marvel is a good character but of course drawn for men. And I am bracing myself for the WW movie, I've got a really bad feeling. Wish it had been Joss Whedon running that show. Speaking of Whedon, it is too grown up concepts for a seven year old perhaps but Buffy Season Eight in comic form is pretty great.
• hazz 12y ago
  cached version: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.itinthed.com/16328/what-taking-my-daughter-to-a-comic-book-store-taught-me&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=b_a4VLURwbtRrKqEkAU http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.iti...
• clarkevans 12y ago
  I might tend to disagree with the author's final conclusion, that his daughter is too young to understand (at least about sexism and double standards, if not sex). Talking about this subject with your daughter when she brings it up is absolutely appropriate. There is lots of societal pressure on very young girls to fit a specific mold. It starts with very mundane differences... like short/long hair. Two weeks ago, for example, my daughter and I had a play date with a friend and his son. As we're leaving the basketball court, and putting on our winter jackets, my daughter says to him: "that's a cool jacket". To which the son replies: "this is a BOY jacket". My daughter laughed and said: "that's silly". Anyway, speaking of Comics, PaperCutz has some very nice ones that my 5 year old daughter loves: http://papercutz.com/comics/monster http://papercutz.com/comics/monster
  • icebraining 12y ago
    Agreed on she probably not being too young to understand. And the whole "if she dresses sexy we'll lock her up ha ha" just sounded wrong. As another suggestion, Orc Girl[1] is nice, though somewhat dark. [1] http://readchallenger.com/comic/orc-girl/ http://readchallenger.com/comic/orc-girl/
  • cauterized 12y ago
    His daughter.
    • clarkevans 12y ago
      Thank you for correcting me; I originally wrote "her daughter" when I meant "his daughter".
• deleted 12y ago
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  • farrel 12y ago
    This is a false equivalence: http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/05-the-death-of-snkrs/falseequivalence/ http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/05-the-death-o...
    • lsiebert 12y ago
      Yeah, his argument is subtly different, or I would have used that too.
    • mikecmpbll 12y ago
      what absolute nonsense. I don't find these female superheroes any more attractive than the woman in the comic you linked to finds the muscled men attractive. There's no evidence that any fewer women find the muscled man a sexual fantasy than men find the big bewbed woman.
  • JonnieCache 12y ago
    The difference is that the big muscles on the men help them to achieve their superheroic aims, protecting others, evil plans, etc. OTOH the giant tits on the women would only hinder them. Hell, even light jogging looks like it would be difficult. This is an extension of how society values men for things they do, but women for things they are.
    • pbhjpbhj 12y ago
      You can't move quickly with massive muscles, big musculature is about instantaneous power - look at endurance runners, how many of them have a physique like The Flash, http://covers.cbrd.info/02983f42a0e5967b8997b606646eeac7_xl.jpg http://covers.cbrd.info/02983f42a0e5967b8997b606646eeac7_xl..... Batman couldn't even run with calf muscles this big his legs would bang together - http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060923231859/marvel_dc/images/a/a7/Batman_0.jpg http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060923231859/marvel_dc/.... Looking at the DC Comics website none of it seems to be suitable for children.
• vidarh 12y ago
  Having recently been on a comics binge after 20+ years of reading very few US comics and only slightly more European comics, and definitively not being very sensitive to this issue, I must admit it's still very much more noticeable today. The number of "lets make sure her ass shows" "shots" is much higher than I remember. Occasionally you even have characters comment on it. I'd think that if this was as prevalent when I was in my teens, I'd have much more vivid memories of it. Most of the characters that were clearly targeted at children when I grew up are now clearly targeted at adults or at least teenagers. E.g. compare X-Men, Spiderman or Avengers from the last 10 years with the 1980's. The dialogue and over-exposition and extensive abuse of soliloquies alone in the 80's Marvel was something I didn't even remember from when reading it as a kid, but which makes a lot of them unreadable to me except for the nostalgia today (compare with Alan Moore's legendary Swamp Thing run which has kept fantastically), but the drawings were also lot less "realistic" and so I at least don't remember the same amount of overly sexualized images. But at the same time, as some of the commenters on the article points out, there are also a number of titles with characters that fit better for younger readers, and some of them with female leads, and generally more diverse such as the new Ms Marvel (which is a teenage muslim girl of pakistani descent) as Marvel in particular seems to want to capture a wider audience.
  • facepalm 12y ago
    I could be wrong, but weren't X-Men, Spiderman and the like always in the trash department of comics? From a European perspective it always seemed so. Sure they have a lot of fans, but they are not really representative of quality comics. (and by trash I mean silly stereotypes and exaggerations are basically implied).
    • vidarh 12y ago
      The entire US superhero genre, with some notable exceptions, were in the "trash department of comics". You are right they are not representative of quality comics, but they were and are representative of a large segment of what sells. Though especially in Europe there's a wider segment of non-superhero comics that sells well (and often outsells Marvel/DC titles by a wide margin), and that is not nearly as sexualised - see my comment elsewhere. But these are very poorly represented in most comic stores in English speaking countries. The high brow stuff, even in Europe, sold - and sells - in far smaller quantities.
• mojuba 12y ago
  Terrible writing... Some people code like this. You look at what they did and just wonder why something that can be written in 3 lines is written in 200 lines of code.
  • jevgeni 12y ago
    Point made by author is still valid.
• tiquortoo 12y ago
  If the demographics swing at the edges of the market the center will respond. Particularly if there is social pressure to do so. This is not a malicious endeavor it is a market response and we frankly don't have to be so hand-wringy about it.
  • xienze 12y ago
    I agree 100%. I don't understand why everything has to be over-analyzed to death. Good grief, we're talking about comic books. I'd love to hear this guy write about taking his daughter to a shop selling uncensored Japanese Manga. "Maaaaybe our comics aren't so bad after all."
    • mangahonthrowwy 12y ago
      All sexual material sold legally in Japan is censored by law. Many people in this thread are talking about how 'the market should adapt' or 'the market doesn't need to adapt', but I think a more interesting corraly is that 'the market' is the primary force acting on the culture of this niche. Japan is lucky to have a diverse comic market, but I think there's an interesting case to be made for non-market forces to encourage a broader set of creativity in the comic world, if not for the young girls at the very least countering the incessant duldrum I find myself stepped in as a consumer.
      • xienze 12y ago
        > All sexual material sold legally in Japan is censored by law. So there's a little black bar where the tentacle is penetrating the woman?
        • mangahonthrowwy 12y ago
          I'm not versed enough in the law to answer the spirit of that question, but the law has chilling effects greater than the letter of it. Adult material is kept in a separate section, usually with the books sealed in opaque packaging, and 7-eleven in Japan has removed it's adult section entirely.
• po 12y ago
  I can already hear the debate raging about weather or not the images or particular examples in this article are acceptable or defensible or not. I think it's totally fine for the comics that this one shop has are there. Artistic freedom! Great! What's not super is that it's really the only kind. It's like netflix with only action movies. This article should feature a bunch of blank photos representing the comics that don't exist. Those are the problem. It's ok to have super sexed-up comics in the store, but it's really sad that's all they have. Japanese manga is fully of sexy, weird, objectifying stuff that most people really wouldn't want their kids to see, but go to a bookstore in Japan and you'll also see bookcase after bookcase of manga totally appropriate for all ages with young girls pressing their nose into them. Stories about teenage girls getting picked on at school or trying to meet the right guy or saying stupid things in class. Stories about girls who are in bands and office workers and every possible thing. I think the comic industry, video games, tech, and geek culture in general are all going through growing pains as they find adoption in a larger market. We need more articles like this helping people realize what a "normal" comic shop could look like. The comics we have today would still be in there, there would just be more variety and the market for comics would be healthier. It's actually a better scenario for everyone.
  • deleted 12y ago
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  • Heyr 12y ago
    What you say is like a nice idea, but you have to remember that this is a business. These kinds of comics line the shelves, because they're the ones that sell. Of course, it could very well be that if we had more comics that were more moderate they would sell also, but nobody's willing to take the risk. On top of that, you also require an author that is interested in that - you can't just suck this stuff out of a pen to make money (although often this does happen, they tend to end up being less interesting though). If the comic is printed out then somebody has to buy it. If the comics aren't bought enough then it just won't work. It doesn't matter whether our ideal society would have us have more moderate comics or not, because it seems that in reality that's not the case. Of course, you can always prove me wrong (and the comic industry) by creating your own comic that does adhere to the criteria you enjoy. You would probably be rather successful if people truly wanted it, because it seems like there is no competition for them. But it seems unlikely.
• tsmarsh 12y ago
  I had a similar 'revelation' with violence in video games. I knew a lot of games were violent, but it wasn't until I found my 2 year old son watching me murder human after human with a crossbow in Tomb Raider that I 'got it'. It has ruined AAA video games for me. I solved the problem by buying a Wii U. I'm not sure why that's better. I have killed hundreds of pikmin, squashed hundreds of goomba and worst of all, used the blue shell in anger. It's still incredibly violent, but I'm not willfully enjoying a murder simulator.
  • talmand 12y ago
    I could be wrong but it seems you have issues with the idea of games for adults and games for kids. The fact that a game is unsuitable for your child to play, or even watch you play, prevents you from enjoying certain games seems just wrong. Did you stop watching movies rated PG-13 or higher as well? And why is it wrong for young children to understand the concept of life and death? I mean, an overly gory game is one thing but I don't think my ten year old slaughtering opponents by the dozens in Minecraft is going to cause her to grow up with psychopathic urges.
    • scott_s 12y ago
      You missed his point. Once he saw what he was doing from his child's perspective, he was uncomfortable with it. Note that this is distinct from being uncomfortable with his child seeing what he is doing. I had a similar reaction after not playing many games during grad school, which was 2003 - 2010. After graduating, I picked up a PS3. Some games it wasn't too much of an issue (such as Mass Effect), but in others, it was startling (such as Bioshock Infinite).
      • talmand 12y ago
        I think you missed my point, which is if he was uncomfortable with his child watching him play such games, don't let them watch such games. His negative reaction to "AAA" games in general because of that is what I found odd. If he no longer found the games appealing due to that then I suppose that's cool. But there are games in that space that don't fit that style of gameplay.
• topbanana 12y ago
  These comics aren't aimed at young children, of any gender. There are comics available for younger ones. Here in the UK my two read The Phoenix. It would benefit from more female characters, but they both enjoy it (boy 7, girl 6) http://www.thephoenixcomic.co.uk/free-digi-phoenix/ http://www.thephoenixcomic.co.uk/free-digi-phoenix/
• everyone 12y ago
  I dont see this as an issue. Putting it very bluntly. Comics are (in general) of low quality (in terms of writing, ideas* ), aimed (in general) at a specific creepy contingent of society composed of teenage boys or men who still act like teenage boys. So, who cares about them!? Contemporary media, games, tv shows, films, music, are filled with and largely composed of terrible dross. If you're discerning that involves ignoring 99% of media and almost completely ignoring comics. *Obviously there are some good comics which I've read (Akira is a good example) but, in my experience, the soaring heights of the greatest writing in comics would be seen as mediocre in another domain.
  • eru 12y ago
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Creep_shaming http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Creep_shaming ? > *Obviously there are some good comics which I've read (Akira is a good example) but, in my experience, the soaring heights of the greatest writing in comics would be seen as mediocre in another domain. There's lots of genres like that. Soap operas. Romance novels.
  • deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
• facepalm 12y ago
  Except that it's not true that no comics with "normal" female heroines exist. We had Yoko Tsuno when we were kids, for example. The most recent comics I bought were Buffy and Fray. You don't have to buy cheesy sex comics - I don't. That lots of men enjoy comics with exaggerated sex symbols has no bearing on the offering for the female target democratic. Same goes for books and movies and so on btw. In the same vein, it doesn't bother me as a man that there are thousands of women's magazines, and only very few men's magazines. I just don't care - nobody is forcing me to buy them, after all. In fact there are zillions of products in the world I don't care for, and that doesn't make me feel discriminated against.
• savanaly 12y ago
  It's kind of a shame for the minority of women or men who prefer to see women depicted realistically in the comics they read. But that contingent is small enough that I fear it just isn't viable to serve them. The comics market has been around awhile and is fiercely competitive, so I think we can be confident it is delivering the efficient solution as it stands. That said, gradually shifting the tastes of everyone around you by writing countless articles and making speeches at conventions etc. is legitimate if you feel that strongly about it, so more power to them I guess.
• elberto34 12y ago
  Garfield, Dilbert, Foxtrot and Calvin and Hobbes is about the extent of my comic repertoire Taking a 7 year old to a comic store is like tasking her to a pg 13 movie.. . Not too surprised it didn't work out. Comics tend to deal with adult themes and are aimed at older people.
  • cauterized 12y ago
    When I was a kid, comics were for all ages. When my parents were kids, comics were for kids. That seems to have changed.
    • xienze 12y ago
      Because kids don't read comics. When your demographic changes you have to adapt or die.
      • Vivtek 12y ago
        Back then, comics were ten cents. Now they're twenty bucks. Kids don't read stuff that costs twenty bucks.
        • xienze 12y ago
          Twenty bucks? Show me the regular run issue that costs that much. And it's not about the price, kids would much rather play with a tablet than read a comic (or go outside, even).
          • danielweber 12y ago
            The price still adds up. When I had tens of dollars a week of paper route money, it was easy to get a pile of 75 cent comics every month. I might just be an old grump, though.
      • cauterized 12y ago
        Do kids not read comics because they wouldn't be interested in them? Or do they not read them because they're no longer kid-friendly? Which is cause and which is effect?
• spuz 12y ago
  Maybe it's me but I cannot figure out what point the post is making. What exactly does the author 'get' now? How does the sexualisation of comic book characters relate to how women experience the tech industry? I'm not saying there isn't a link, but the author doesn't explain it from his point of view. I have to admit I am a little discouraged by the way the author handles his interactions with his daughter. To explain something to your child as being for "older people" and to dismiss her questions with "Daddy's thinking, don't worry about it" seems to parallel the way adult women are treated by men. It's not my place to criticise how a parent behaves with their children but in an article that talks about the problems of empathy and understanding another's point of view it still seems that the author doesn't quite 'get it'.
  • vidarh 12y ago
    It sounds like what he "gets" is how hard it is to notice a lot of the sexualization when you don't get to see it from their side. It's easy to e.g. dismiss the way female superheroes (and villains) are being dismissed with references to how the men are also in tight outfits (as you can find examples of in this thread). It's harder to dismiss the difference between your son having no problems finding something he likes vs. your daughter being put off by the depictions of women in the same series.
    • spuz 12y ago
      Ok, that makes sense. I guess I can see how that kind of dissonance would then apply when thinking about women and technology.
      • Fomite 12y ago
        Consider the number of replies on HN and other sources that are essentially "Well I don't see it..." or "Not at my office..." rather than taking women at their word for their own experience.
        • cpncrunch 12y ago
          The problem is that sometimes when sexism is claimed - such as at github - it turns out not to be sexism at all. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but when you have false positives like this, it makes you want to see some evidence.
• k-mcgrady 12y ago
  I'm surprised at the number of comments in this thread excusing it because of the market. The fact that nearly everyone who has made that point felt the need to create a new account to do so is very telling. The market is influenced heavily by human beings. And no human being is morally perfect. There are lots of comics that sexualise women because there are lots of guys who, for some reason, enjoy seeing sexual cartoons. The people who draw comics, for some reason, also seem to enjoy drawing comics like this. That doesn't excuse the problem. There have been markets for plenty of things that we decided as a society aren't morally right to sell anymore.
  • Kenji 12y ago
    "There have been markets for plenty of things that we decided as a society aren't morally right to sell anymore." You want to argue that comics with sexualized women (or men, it doesn't matter who) aren't morally right to sell? Are you out of your mind? Let's go back to the fig leaf, shall we? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fig_leaf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fig_leaf Our society is becoming more and more prude again.
  • vilda 12y ago
    That's the typical conflict between liberals and left wings in politics. The conflict between freedom and "good". In this case freedom of artistic expression on one side, and anti-sexualism of women (unisex) on other side.
    • icebraining 12y ago
      Sounds like an American problem to me. There's plenty of sexualization in works by authors with left-wing inclinations - though usually not so gratuitous like those comics. A good on-topic example is the comics series Louis La Guigne, which had sexualization (like this cover[1]) but a heavy left-wing slant (the protagonist, among other things, is involved in the resistances against the fascist and nazi regimes in Europe). [1] http://www.bede-news.com/public/images/vols/louis-guigne-automne-berlin-ancienne-edition.jpg http://www.bede-news.com/public/images/vols/louis-guigne-aut...
    • k-mcgrady 12y ago
• johnchristopher 12y ago
  That feels weird to me because I like comics (I am from Europe, so "european comics" is a weird name for what I'd roughly translate to `Drawn stories` or `graphic novels`) and there are a lot of interesting indie or ya comics out there (edit: I mean, in the US too). I suppose comics bookstore are just dump ground for Marvel/DC/Images/DH production of the week ? For a 8-12 years-old, of the top of my mind: http://www.mouseguard.net/ http://www.mouseguard.net/ and lmgt. There are also the translated comics from Europe. But I understand these are not weekly `updated` and that might not appeal to an american audience (cultural heritage).
  • vidarh 12y ago
    As a Norwegian (where translated French and Belgian titles as well as US translated imports and a wide range of our own production tends to be available in nearly every grocery store, gas station or corner store), who now lives in the UK (very similar comic culture to the US, and with very limited own production) and who have visited a few US comic stores too: The US market is dominated by superhero comics, with some book versions of newspaper strips, and a small segment of other stuff. From a non-UK European point of view, it's a very strange experience. Though I love the superhero comics, I also grew up with a wide range of alternatives. The first time I went into a comic store in the UK was a shocking experience. Not least because of how thin and filled with ads the US stuff was. Basically the US format is to bombard the market with a massive number of titles, fill it with ads, and pump out a tiny number of pages each issue. When there was a regular translated Spiderman title in Norway, it was edited together from the stories in something like 4-5 different US titles, in order to get a single magazine of sufficient number of pages to be viable in the Norwegian market. Trying to publish multiple titles for a single character would be seen as suicide. Instead the Scandinavian approach is generally to publish titles with a single "headline" character and then guest stints of a few pages of smaller characters. When guest series gets popular, they get to try out their own titles. Some main titles get odd in that they get a level of popularity whereby even if the main series may not be drawn any more the magazine is kept alive, and eventually the guest series kinda "takes over" more and more - Calvin and Hobbes survived that way as a monthly title in Norway for a decade after Watterson ended the series. I think the US publishers basically have shot themselves in the foot this way, by creating an image for comics as cheap and trashy childrens entertainment, and so massively limiting their audience, as reflected in the extremely low sales numbers even for the top series.
• RemoteWorker 12y ago
  "Error establishing a database connection"
• rayiner 12y ago
  As the father of a daughter, and someone who normally gets worked up about this sort of thing, I don't see the big deal. I've always viewed comics as equivalent to daytime soap operas made more pornographic to suit teenage male tastes. What value is there in trying to capture this bit of culture for girls? Is it going to lead to higher paying jobs or more equal gender roles in the home? Is it going to lead to greater fulfillment in their personal lives? To me, asking how we can get girls more interested in comics or sci-fi is like asking how we can address the gender imbalance in ditch digging jobs.
  • xaa 12y ago
    Ouch. I can't speak for comics, as the only ones I've really enjoyed are Alan Moore comics which emphatically aren't suitable for children (Discworld is good, though), but plenty of sci-fi has high cultural value, IMO, in both TV and book form. Star Trek: TNG, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Foundation, and many more show a lot about the human condition, teach the important concept that the future may be radically different from the present and we can shape it, and they are enjoyable to boot. Typically the newer sci-fi is either barely or not at all misogynistic (although 1950s-era sci-fi certainly is).
  • icebraining 12y ago
    Is it going to lead to greater fulfillment in their personal lives? It certainly did for me. Reading Bill Watterson, Quino, André Franquin, Frank Giroud and a few others had a great impact in my childhood.
  • vidarh 12y ago
    Consider that your impression of comics is coloured by apparently (based on your description) mostly having been shown a single, very limited segment (US-style superhero segments). Comics are no more limited to that, than TV are limited to daytime soap operas. The value isn't in trying to get girls to read US-style male-focused superhero stories, but in pointing out that the current comics most widely distributed in the US represents a tiny fraction of what is available. Imagine what TV would be like if all that was on was daytime soap operas. That's the US comic market. If your TV was like that, would it not be nice to get a wider selection? > Is it going to lead to greater fulfillment in their personal lives? Role models - even when depicted in fiction - matters: http://www.slashgear.com/uhura-recounts-her-epic-talk-with-mlk-jr-for-neil-degrasse-tyson-21266121/ http://www.slashgear.com/uhura-recounts-her-epic-talk-with-m...
• rthomas6 12y ago
  For a young girl, it looks like the new Batgirl might fit the bill well [1]. Not trying to minimize the issue, I just thought the author might like this for their daughter. [1]: http://36.media.tumblr.com/98dffc116ba398dd71703e02abd7518b/tumblr_n8hzz5sz7k1qa10uwo3_1280.jpg http://36.media.tumblr.com/98dffc116ba398dd71703e02abd7518b/... http://40.media.tumblr.com/f0256cc6e4845526b9b9444935a6b287/tumblr_n8hzz5sz7k1qa10uwo1_1280.jpg http://40.media.tumblr.com/f0256cc6e4845526b9b9444935a6b287/...
  • daktanis 12y ago
    There are a lot of good options out there, comic shop guy didn't help as much as my local shop would have.
• virtualritz 12y ago
  This is an American problem. In Europe I grew up with Tin Tin, Jo, Zette & Joko but also John Difool and Nikopol. Got to a comic store in Paris an there's an abundance of comics that are 'real' and kids friendly. No boobies or asses etc.
  • k-mcgrady 12y ago
    I find this interesting when you think America is considered to be much more prudish than Europe. Anecdotally it seems that although sex and nudity is less taboo in Europe it isn't abused in the way it is in America.
    • icebraining 12y ago
      It's not really that weird, though; both behaviors are a result of a lack of maturity dealing with the subject, as taboos often are. In a comparable situation, the Catholic countries which were/are more devoted (and often fanatic, such as in the Inquisition) are also the ones that have the most blasphemous slang and insults. Spain in particular has a whole host of them involving religious figures (God, the Virgin Mary, etc) and scatological acts.
  • Someone1234 12y ago
    A lot of European comics have a different issue: racism. I really liked Tin Tin but I cannot pretend like the entire thing isn't incredibly racist. All of the bad guys had a certain skin colour, you could guess who was going to betray the main cast just by their colour/culture, and a lot of other cultures are portrayed like savages (sometimes literally). http://www.cracked.com/article_19610_the-6-most-secretly-racist-classic-childrens-books.html http://www.cracked.com/article_19610_the-6-most-secretly-rac...
• misterdai 12y ago
  A bit shocked that he seemed to be allowing his 5 year old son to buy Batman comics. I recently played catch up on the New 52 Batman series and found them pretty violent in places, enough that I wouldn't let any young child read them.
• platinumdragon 12y ago
  What a rambling, unreadable load of crap. This guy shouldn't be writing anything. Besides being a shitty author, this guy shouldn't be in IT, or a parent.
• perakojotgenije 12y ago
  I've never understood Americans' obsession with superhero comics. When I was a kid I was reading Asterix[1], Gaston Lagaffe[2], Spirou et Fantasio[3], Lucky Luke[4], Prince Valiant[5], The Phantom[6] and similar stuff. Of course, I've read Superman, Batman and Spiderman also but at least I've had a choice. I can't understand why they don't exist in US, why are the only comic books Americans know superhero comics? [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_%28comics%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_%28comics%29 [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirou_et_Fantasio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirou_et_Fantasio [4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_Luke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_Luke [5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Valiant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Valiant [6]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom
  • INTPenis 12y ago
    I grew up in Sweden so I rather fittingly had a school library with comics about norse mythology. [1] Also I think everyone in Sweden has heard of Goliat. [2] [1] http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhall_%28tecknad_serie%29 http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhall_%28tecknad_serie%29 [2] http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliat_%28tecknad_serie%29 http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliat_%28tecknad_serie%29
    • clavalle 12y ago
      Superheroes of a different era.
      • tormeh 12y ago
        No, not if the comics stay true to the mythology, anyway. Norse mythology is pretty similar to Greek. The Gods aren't really heroes; they are Gods. They lack the "hero" in "superhero". The Marvel depiction of Loki is not as one-dimensional as that of Lex Luthor, for example, but the underlying myths actually depicts him a bit more nuanced still. And while the Gods are generally good, they are also at times foolish, funny and arrogant.
• spb 12y ago
  Just recommended the author check out Ryan North's comics: https://twitter.com/ryanqnorth https://twitter.com/ryanqnorth Ryan North's the guy who does Dinosaur Comics (http://www.qwantz.com http://www.qwantz.com), and has since been hired to write the Adventure Time comic and the most recent run of Marvel's Unbeatable Squirrel Girl. http://www.themarysue.com/interview-squirrel-girl-ryan-north/ http://www.themarysue.com/interview-squirrel-girl-ryan-north... This is how I want to see more people solving this problem: not by trying to shout down the ones responsible (which goads people into defending institutional sexism to shout back in their defense, ugh), but by just doing it right.
• misterdai 12y ago
  While I can understand how part of his post is about the way women are portrayed physically in those comics. I'm not so sure on his examples he picked in reference to his children and their unsuitability. I already commented on how I wasn't sure if Batman was suitable for his 5 year old, given the nature of some lines, but some examples he picked in reference to his 7 year old daughter were a stretch. Power Girl: Haven't fully checked but appears to be part of a line rated T for Teen. Harley Quinn (Batman Detective Comics): Rated T for Teen. http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFg5MDA=/z/axsAAOSwD0lUlJHV/$_57.JPG http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFg5MDA=/z/axsAAOSwD0lUlJHV/$_... Perhaps comic book stores should designate areas for different ratings of comics. Or comic companies should agree to make the rating larger. Or some parents need to become more aware that comics are just for kids, the same way that computer games aren't either.
  • robotkilla 12y ago
    Most of the shops I frequent have a young readers section. Diamond (the only North American comic book distributor) even has a young readers section of their release list. The author of the article clearly thinks comics are intended for children, when only a small portion are.
    • misterdai 12y ago
      I do find it worrying the amount of parents who dismiss a form of entertainment as "for kids" in their mindset. I've seen it a lot with video games, where a parent will buy a game for their child who is not even a teen and the game itself is rated for adults only (Call of Duty a prime example, once I saw it with Saints Row). It's a shame the article author didn't bother to take this into account.
  • junto 12y ago
    Exactly. More importantly the store owner stocks what he sells, or what he thinks sells. If more 7 year old girls came into the store everyday, he might stock something more appropriate for that audience. It is like asking a Harley Davidson dealer whether he stocks Toyota Prius's. Young teen males buy these comics because there are half-naked, caricatured, over-sized breasted women in them. Later on they just buy porn mags, or more often these these days, just download porn from the internet.
• edwinjm 12y ago
  I looked in this online Belgian strip store and for the Dutch language market (quite small demographic), I could find 5 (five) titles for girls! And I'm pretty sure there's more (Noortje, Tina...) http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-mooie-navels-bestellen.asp http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-mooie-navels-bestelle... http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-girlz-bestellen.asp http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-girlz-bestellen.asp http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-kathys-kat-bestellen.asp http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-kathys-kat-bestellen.... http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-dance-academy-bestellen.asp http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-dance-academy-bestell... http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-claire-bestellen.asp http://www.stripweb.be/R-stripverhalen-claire-bestellen.asp
  • facepalm 12y ago
    How did you search? I just searched for "Yoko Tsuno" on that site and they seem to be available.
    • Torgo 12y ago
      Yoko Tsuno comics are really great, by the way. It's disappointing that Franco-Belgian and Italian comics never get full runs in English.
• vertex-four 12y ago
  For those who honestly believe that women will never want to read comics - look into webcomics. A huge proportion of the reader base for a good, PG-13(-ish) webcomic will likely be female, and there's a number of webcomics that are targeted towards women. A number of these comics will eventually be printed and sold, usually via the Internet, sometimes at conventions. I went to the Thoughtbubble Comic Convention last year in the UK, and returned with a hefty bag full of comics that do not exaggerate sexual characteristics (or, in fact, mention sex at all in most cases), focusing on good art and a compelling storyline. Some of these are webcomics, some were designed to be sold as graphic novels and serial comics. The comic book store is a remarkably poor selection of what's out there, and I think they might've got themselves into a recursive image problem - they stock primarily comics for a certain audience, so only that audience go there, so any change is not welcomed.
  • washadjeffmad 12y ago
    Oh yeah, Cucumber Quest (http://cucumber.gigidigi.com http://cucumber.gigidigi.com) is pretty excellent for any age and has multiple female protagonists.
    • vertex-four 12y ago
      Oh wow! I remember being introduced to that, and thought it was really cute, but stopped reading it due to real life things. I'll have to bookmark and catch up again.
  • AnimalMuppet 12y ago
    Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ http://www.schlockmercenary.com/) also has a large number of strong female characters. It's a comic space opera.
• rathernot 12y ago
  If the OP is reading this (I had a connection error when I tried to register to comment there) check out the Mary Jane comic aimed at teenage girls. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_Loves_Mary_Jane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_Loves_Mary_Jane
• JohnE008 12y ago
  Breaking news! Father takes 7-year old daughter to a comic shop for older, male audiences. Daughter is offended! Misogyny, etc! Males are creeps! Sexualizing women in comics is offensive to women and therefore immoral! It's not like women can choose not to read such comics. It is a sign that you live a life of highest quality if you can worry about sexualization in fictional comics.
  • copsarebastards 12y ago
    ...so you didn't read the article. I'm not sure why you feel the need to announce that.
    • JohnE008 12y ago
      I read it word for word. That is pretty much what he wants to communicate.
      • copsarebastards 12y ago
        Just because your eyes passed over the letters doesn't mean you read it. You went in with preconceived notions of what it was going to say and you came out without those preconceptions changed. Reading requires that you actually spend time trying to understand what someone is saying. I admit it's not entirely clear what the author's point is, but that doesn't mean you get to fill in your own and pretend like the author said it. I'm pretty skeptical of a lot of feminism, but there's nothing particularly outrageous being said here.
• prof_hobart 12y ago
  I agree that there's an awful lot of comics aimed squarely at the adolescent male, but at least in the comic store that my 8 year old daughter likes to go to, there's also a fair amount that she loves. Her favourites at the moment are the Happy Happy Clover series, the Powerpuff Girls and Adventure Time, but there's quite a few others that she's enjoyed as well. That's alongside all of the books and merchandise for things like Studio Ghibli, and (nerdy) girl-friendly sci-fi like Dr Who and Star Wars. As she gets older, I can see that she'll probably start to struggle to find stuff she still wants to read, but if that comic book store is offering nothing more than Hello Kitty and Monster High for young girls, you might want to see if you can find a better comic book store.
  • danielweber 12y ago
    (The original site has been HN'd.) Every "Free Comic Book Day" my family goes down, and my youngest son always finds entirely appropriate things for him. He love Sonic and Mega Man.
• lxc 12y ago
  Superhero comics are stoopid
• lxc 12y ago
  I used to read old disney comics. Mickey mouse, donald duck. Oh the nostalgia.... They were better than any superhero comic. Nowadays kids in india read Sabita Bhabi
• fifthesteight 12y ago
  It's really sad to me how all of us in our industry are getting slapped across the face day in and day out about how unfairly, unequally and unjustly women are treated in our industry and peripheries. You gents are too smart to still 'not get it.' I'm at the point where I see it as willful ignorance. And I'm tired of all of it.
• graycat 12y ago
  The seven year old girl was correct: It was not really a comic book store in the sense she had in mind. Instead it was a store with comic books for teenage boys and men and even there a fairly narrow audience. The store was definitely not for children, especially not for grade school or younger girls. A lesson she might have learned: It's a big world out there, and some of it, e.g., the view of women in that store, is not good, and sometimes, too often, in life we have to be selective. It's been a while since my brother and I were in grade school and he was collecting comic books. So, only vaguely do I remember Donald Duck and Batman, and those comic books weren't right up against the line, the other side of which was porn. Instead, say, take your seven year old daughter to a music store, not one for pop music but one where seven year old girls have a nice violins and are learning the "Preludio" to the Bach E major Partita for unaccompanied violin, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KYRdRnnBYw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KYRdRnnBYw with Hillary Hahn, the Chaconne of Vitali, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4B1ifcWa9o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4B1ifcWa9o with David Oistrakh, the Bach "Chaconne" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tezau3hlRxs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tezau3hlRxs with Alina Ibragimova, or the Bach Busoni piano version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOFflFiLlT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOFflFiLlT8 with Valentina Lisitsa, a store where the seven year old violin students are looking forward to playing the violin part to the Wagner "Prelude to Act I" of Lohengrin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7prUFflX0_E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7prUFflX0_E with Otto Klemperer, also from the same opera In fernem land https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHHCeEO_0-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHHCeEO_0-4 with Peter Anders and, of course, especially since she is a seven year old girl, starting at about 3:00, the bridal chorus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebx9KhcnyLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebx9KhcnyLM with Andris Nelsons. Of course, also tell her the story of Lohengrin. More? Sure: Camille Saint Saens "Mon coeur s'ouvre à ta voix" from Samson et Dalila http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X79OkSayPSw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X79OkSayPSw with Elina Garancas. More generally expose her to places and media content where girls and women are actually doing things, good things. E.g., currently there is the Nova program on he LHC and the Higgs boson at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/big-bang-machine.html http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/big-bang-machine.html Two detectors there found the same basic result, and one of the detector groups was led by a woman. That program has more examples of women doing things. Yes, there's a lot out there where the women are all interested in nose jobs, breast implants, micro skirts, and thong panties, but there's also a lot out there for women being productive, building a home and family with love, victory over loneliness, being productive, and with pride in accomplishments and emotional and financial security. Get her a copy of the classic E. Fromm, The Art of Loving which is about getting emotional security, exchanging knowledge, caring, respect, and responsiveness, and a role for religion -- best thing I ever read to understand people and personality. Maybe take her to some Saturday classes in cooking school where she can learn to make, say, some really good cookies she could make and share with her friends, e.g., at school. If I were 7-9 and a girl 7 gave me 2-3 really good cookies she had baked herself, then she would have a good friend for years, prom dates, etc. If she could play classical music on piano or violin or sing opera, even better. How to get her interested in working hard on, say, piano or violin? One way: Let her hear some of the music that is easy to like. Then let her see some people working hard on learning piano or violin and liking it. Example: A sister in law tried to get her daughter interested in piano. No luck. At the farm at Christmas, I was upstairs working on the Bach "Chaconne", and a niece, about 7, came up to watch. I put my violin under her left chin, showed her how to hold the violin and the bow, and to draw the bow across the strings. The next day her father asked me: "How much is a violin going to cost me?". It works. More? Sure: Get her the DVD of the Australian Ballet performance of Coppelia -- it's a total sweetheart story, nearly all about young women, and where nearly everyone on stage is a young woman. And the actual young women on the stage, the real performers and not the characters they play in the story, are examples of astoundingly hard work, productivity, and, in particular, are just fantastic as actresses, artists, and athletes, especially aerobic athletes. Of course, at Christmas, get her all dressed up in some sort of a princess outfit -- when I was that age the style was dresses with red or black velvet with lots of satin ribbons and bows -- and take her to a good performance of The Nutcracker. Also get her a Nutcracker doll. It could be one of the happiest times of her life, make her feel more secure as a girl, and be a memory she will have and value forever. Also get her DVDs of some of the movies from American Girl. They may also have some retail stores it would be better for her to visit than that fake comic book store. For books, maybe Nancy Drew? Or something similar but more recent? Since she's seven, a girl, and bright, it may be that she could get good at French with blinding speed -- try to find a way. Talk to some people who know about how a girl of seven could learn French. Maybe have her join a group, e.g., where also she could meet other girls learning French. Maybe try a local Alliance Française. Maybe try some Internet learning materials. Connection with her being a girl? At that age, typically girls have much better verbal aptitude than the boys and are just fantastic at learning a language. Be sure to have her learn touch typing -- one of the best skills to have in life now. Talk to some people who know how a girl of seven could learn touch typing, get her some materials, and pay attention her efforts, encourage and praise them, and help her learn. Then encourage and praise her in writing: Have her start writing on nearly anything -- letters to grandma, how to train a kitten or puppy, how to bake terrific cookies, how to tie a bow tie, how to wash out stains, how to iron a dress, how to sew on a button, how to use a text editor, how to use Facebook, blog posts (anonymous), etc. Then get her started on English grammar -- sentences, subjects, verbs, prepositions and prepositional phrases, adjectives and adverbs. Then make friends with a high school English teacher (nearly all women, right?) and have that teacher help your daughter improve her writing. Then have your daughter write some longer pieces with sections, subsections, table of contents, figures, references, etc. on anything: If your family moves, then have her write on moving to a new house. On getting a puppy or kitten. Whatever. Get her going on writing, then reading, the more in writing, then more in reading. For being better in talking to her, and to others, too, get, read, study, think about, and use Thomas Gordon, Parent Effectiveness Training: The Tested New Way to Raise Responsible Children. also called reflective listening. For more, get her several, used will be fine, high school texts in plane geometry, pick a favorite, use the others for alternative sources, and work through plane geometry with her, that is, get the fun of doing the proofs. Emphasize orthogonality and the Pythagorean theorem: Orthogonality is one of the most important ideas in all of pure and applied mathematics, mathematical physics, engineering, multi-variate statistic, and best approximation, e.g., in computing, right up to how to do ad targeting on the Internet, Fourier theory, the fast Fourier transform, digital filtering, etc. Sure: Quite generally every closed convex set has a unique element of minimum norm, and quickly get to a supporting hyperplane with orthogonality. Sure, one of the biggest results in college math is the polar decomposition in linear algebra and, right, about orthogonal eigen vectors. Can get going on orthogonality right there in high school plane geometry, and she likely has all the prerequisites. If not, in a few places take out a few minutes and get her caught up. Give her a little on electrons, protons, neutrons, atoms, energy and energy levels, and chemical bonds. Then, right, presto, bingo, guide her to the Internet videos of the Eric Lander lectures on biology at MIT, say, http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/biology/7-01sc-fundamentals-of-biology-fall-2011/ http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/biology/7-01sc-fundamentals-of-bi... Also, don't have her miss (get her a bowl of popcorn for the occasion) http://www.princeton.edu/WebMedia/flash/lectures/20100419_publect_lander.shtml http://www.princeton.edu/WebMedia/flash/lectures/20100419_pu... with April 19, 2010, Eric Lander: "Secrets of the Human Genome" Sure, have her watch some Brian Greene videos. Get her a freshman college chemistry book and help her work through it, learn about NaCl, CaCO3, C-H bonds and methane, gasoline, and converting O and C-H bonded hydrocarbons to CO2 and H2O -- e.g., as in heating the house, powering the car, flying an airplane, etc. Look at the GED materials and get her through all of them by the time she is 8-9. A bright girl of seven should be able to get through all of that in one not very busy summer. The GED materials are minimal -- in particular in addition she will need to get through algebra I and II and trigonometry and high school physics. Then, to heck with high school -- then get some good advice and guide her in home schooling through, say, at least the first two years of college. So, for calculus, just get her some good college calculus books (my view of AP calculus is that it is to be avoided, skipped, ignored because the authors didn't understand calculus very well -- similarly for Khan Academy -- repeat, just get some good college calculus books, period), and, sure, make friends with a college math prof to help her not get stuck and to stay on track. Then, sure, have her do college freshman physics -- that's heavily just what calculus is for. Then when she goes to college she will be nicely ahead. "Youth is such a wonderful time of life. Too bad it's wasted on young people." Don't have her waste hers.
• jrs235 12y ago
  Site is down. Cached copy link: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:r3wdwWWnAjoJ:www.itinthed.com/16328/what-taking-my-daughter-to-a-comic-book-store-taught-me/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:r3wdwWW...
• kbart 12y ago
  Why comics? There are plenty of good books (even with pictures) for the girls of that age. Comics were never supposed to be educational or have any non-entertainment value and primary tarted at hormones soaked male teens. Take her to the books store instead. You don't complain that nobody does piano recital during pop concerts -- either go there or not. Actually, I find annoying the trend of complaining about anything that does not suite somebody's needs or attitudes.
  • scott_s 12y ago
    Because his kids were enthused about going to a comic book store. Notice that his little boy found plenty of material for him. The point is, his daughter clearly got it: that stuff is not for her. An entire comic book store, and none of it for her. That doesn't feel good.
  • king_jester 12y ago
    > Comics were never supposed to be educational or have any non-entertainment value and primary tarted at hormones soaked male teens. This hasn't been true of comic books for several decades now. The medium has many examples of high quality, well written, and unique books. Also, the demographics of comics has changed many times over the last 100 years, the focus on men over the last couple of decades is recent phenomenon in the grand scheme of things.
  • vertex-four 12y ago
    > Comics were never supposed to be educational or have any non-entertainment value and primary tarted at hormones soaked male teens. In the USA, perhaps. There is literally nothing about the medium - panes of images, some with dialogue or narrative, which when put together portray a story - that makes it targeted towards males. If I tried to explain comics to people, there's nothing in the explanation that makes it male-only. And in fact, there's plenty of people writing family-friendly and female-targeted comic books. They're just distributed through the Internet these days, and funded through advertising and merchandise. There's plenty of people reading them, along with manga and similar media.
  • lcfg 12y ago
    You're seriously telling his kids what to do? Get real. Kids love to read comics: comics have great value for kids. Colours, heroes, secret hideouts and cool punchlines. Why wouldn't kids (male & female) want that? Why shouldn't they? The next time you're about to tell someone('s kids) what to enjoy, remember that what you like is not necessarily what others like. The writer of the article didn't 'complain about anything'. The complaint is very specific: lots of comics in the comic book store he visited featured more adult illustrations that he and his kid would've liked to see. Valid complaint that doesn't have anything to do with 'attitudes'.
• chasing 12y ago
  I feel like he went to the wrong comic store. Or something. Superhero comics don't interest me in the least (with the exception of the Watchmen, which I really enjoyed). But there's a ton of more "literary" comic books out there that are awesome. In fact, the last comic I read was "Annie Sullivan and the Trials of Helen Keller" -- and it was great! Something a young girl might find really interesting. (http://blogs.slj.com/goodcomicsforkids/2012/04/18/review-annie-sullivan-and-the-trials-of-helen-keller/ http://blogs.slj.com/goodcomicsforkids/2012/04/18/review-ann...)
• josefresco 12y ago
  Ok so I have a daughter about the same age, and recently introduced her to comics (I was never a comic person). I randomly picked up some weird Disney themed comic books at a flea market and showed them to my daughter who kept them in her bed. She ended up liking them, and so I casually started searching for comics for younger children. In the city I am not, so my shopping started at Amazon.com - where I easily found a comic appropriate: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1401216684/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1401216684/ So yes, there is a large segment of comic books that is marketed towards horny teenagers, and overgrown horny teenagers and yes, you local comic shop probably doesn't cater to the under 10/female crowd. However, the content is easy to find, and it doesn't involve exposing your children to your creepy local comic store.
• bane 12y ago
  It's no coincidence that Comic Books and Video Games have gone hand in hand. A long time ago there used to be quite a number of comics that targeted young kids, girls and people other than the 11-15 year old male demographic. There's also been lots of effort put into making games that will appeal to people outside of that demographic. You could say, numbers don't lie, that those titles weren't being sold in enough quantities to keep them alive...and in some sense that's true. But how many ultra-niche comics with bizarre indie storylines stay alive year after year? Actually a very large number of women I know ended up just reading Manga, they managed to find storylines and characterizations that they enjoyed. And now those women are watching cartoons, movies and dramas based on those same Manga. Most comic book stores you go into have a Manga section these days. But Manga is also full of titles with lots of sexualization. Like anything you have to be a smart consumer and not write off an entire class of entertainment, like movies, just because adult film stores exist. It's the same with video games, after decades of struggle to find the market, some surveys are showing that women make up a significant portion of computer-game players: with leading games like The Sims, Bejeweled and WoW having huge populations of women playing them. So the market is there, it's just that the makers are not doing a good enough job of hitting that market. Console game makers are just now starting to learn from computer game makers, and we're starting to see decent titles (mostly PC ports) to woo the other 50% of the market. But they too have really put out some crap trying to find that market. But here's the truth, the women in mainstream super hero comic books are barely anatomically correct, but so are the men. Average characters possess exaggerated musculature not even the Greek gods possessed. And everybody has fantastical powers. These aren't meant to be forms of entertainment that represent reality...even a little bit. They're meant to be highly exaggerated depictions of reality, but the vector of exaggeration is very obviously on stereotypical male vectors.
  • saraid216 12y ago
    It's not about anatomical correctness. It's that the sexualization–of both the male superheroes and the female ones–is explicitly male-based. Female gaze sexualization looks different.
• peterwwillis 12y ago
  He's JUST NOW REALIZING this? Modern comics are the most sexually objectifying medium in the world, second only to straight pornography. I always thought it was fucked up, even as a kid, how crazily unrealistic and sexualized comics were. Like, I knew it was wrong that women were being portrayed this way. But I still bought the comics of course. If you think the way women are portrayed in video games and comics is normal, you are honestly messed up. The most scary thing about this article is that it took him this long to figure this out.
• mansilladev 12y ago
  Having a daughter will teach you a lot of things, and give you more perspectives. Music lyrics, YouTube videos, ads on the billboard/bus, cartoons and even comics. They'll notice. And you'll notice them noticing.
  • rockdoe 12y ago
    I have to say that that combined with the whole GG thing certainly opened up my eyes how incredibly mysonginist some things and communities are, and how badly they are in denial of it.
• talmand 12y ago
  As a father of daughters, I'm waiting for the series of articles that will help me understand the proper way to have a conversation with them about the fact that their boyfriends, when they are old enough to have them, do not have the muscular build nor the attractive looks of common comic book characters such as Batman, Superman, and so on that they constantly see. Never mind when they see movies with all those overly attractive male stars. But all I get are articles about how certain comic books, that they probably shouldn't be reading anyway, gives them unrealistic expectations of what their bodies should look like. Plus the fact that will somehow prevent them from getting a career they want to have. Anyway, I often take my daughters to the local comic book store that I feel has an adequate range of comics for all ages and gender. I let them loose to get what they want. The older one goes for things like Monster High and My Little Pony. The younger goes for those as well as TMNT and Transformers. I just let them decide for themselves what kind of comic book reader they want to be. I feel they'll mostly work it out for themselves. Some people shouldn't worry so much over such details because in the end it only stifles your kid's growth as a person. Trying to shield them from the world they live in doesn't help them in the long run.
  • talmand 12y ago
    Thanks for the feedback. I, for one, feel the negativity only reinforces much of my point.
• SeanLuke 12y ago
  Ugh. This website has modified the behavior of two-fingered scrolling and broke two-fingered magnification on OS X. How do I send glitter to the idiot who decided to break Mac users' conventions?
• agentultra 12y ago
  In Toronto and surrounding cities (Canada) things are getting better with comic stores catering to independent publishers and artists (e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beguiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beguiling). Many local independent bookstores also contain a "graphic novel" section that tend to carry independent, literate examples of the medium. I guess if you haven't been interested in comics for some time it can be disorienting to walk into any shop without doing a little research first. Go indie! You'll do much better. One series I'm looking forward to getting my kids into is Mouseguard. But I also have comics about the fantastic women pioneers in science, the manhattan project, fairy tales, and so on.
• cwyers 12y ago
  My daughter is seven, and she comes with me to the comic book shop several times a month. She has 2-3 comics a week on her pull list -- Scooby Doo, Scooby Doo Team-Up, Adventure Time, Regular Show, Tiny Titans (until it goes back on hiatus again), My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic. We just got into an arguement the other day -- I am NOT buying two copies of Unbeatable Squirrel-Girl a month, she can just borrow mine. Get yourself a copy of the Diamond catalog (it's right there in the store, or you can normally find the solicits on the publisher's websites -- look for Boom and IDW especially, in addition to the Big Two), find stuff your daughter might like, and tell the store to order it for you. Or go to a different comic book store, if they won't. I've been going to the same comic book shop for years now, even though there's five shops closer (I drive by at least one comic book shop on the way to my regular shop), because they'll order what I want, and they even let me know when there's things they think she might want to read.
  • impostervt 12y ago
    Thanks for that list, going to buy some of them for my daughter now.
• Glyptodon 12y ago
  It's kind of interesting - I can think of a number of comics that don't fall into the sexualized gender trap, but they're all comics that have no business being read by a 7 year old, which seems almost backwards. In a lot of ways I guess comics aren't really for kids anymore, which seems kind of sad.
• jccalhoun 12y ago
  I don't know who thought thought the new Harley Quinn outfit was better than the old one but they were wrong.
• robertwalsh0 12y ago
  I've only glanced at the top comments so I may have missed it if someone already said what I'm gonna. Can we just admit that it's stupid that superhero female characters are anatomically comical and wearing things they could never ever fight in?
• oldmanjay 12y ago
  Or "The Continuing Saga of Those Who Feel That Everything Must Be For EVERYONE" Now with extra moralizing and breathless rhetorical style free of charge.
• transfire 12y ago
  Just be honest. Seven year old girls aren't stupid. "Most comics are made for older guys and teen age boys that don't have girlfriends. So they try to make them feel better about it by making comics with half-naked big boobed women. Sad perhaps, but such is life." Then proceed to show her the many comics she would like, from Archie to Oz, there are still plenty of options. The new Ms. Marvel is a particular stand out. Trying to convey this as some sort of social ailment is rather silly. It's simply human nature. And unless you think we should all become asexual, it isn't going to change.
• rostasteve 12y ago
  I had a similar realization a few months ago. On special occasions people at the office will photoshop someone's face onto a superhero and send it around. When it came time for my female manager's face to be put on a superhero, I had a seriously hard time finding a SINGLE non sexualized picture of a well known female superhero. Try it -- pick a female superhero and do a google image search. Then count the number of pages you have to navigate before you find a picture that you'd photoshop your manager onto.
• djent 12y ago
  It seems like comic books are not what you are looking for for your child. Try graphic novels
• yarou 12y ago
  Articles like this further reinforce that we have major issues here in America around sexuality. Why can't we teach our children that sexuality is a positive thing, not something that's akin to commiting a capital offense? When we reinforce the negative aspects of sexuality, that leads to abnormal behaviors like nymphomania and self-destructive tendencies. i understand that there are gender objectification issues, but I think that misses the point entirely.
  • Fomite 12y ago
    Because a great deal of this isn't just about "sexuality", and sexuality isn't necessarily a positive thing when the message to one gender is "You are an object to be enjoyed for another's pleasure" and to the other is "Objectify away! And if you don't, something is wrong with you." And no one here has suggested it's "akin to committing a capital offense" but you. "It would be nice to take my young daughter to do something she wanted to do, and find stories about women with clothing that doesn't look like it's painted on" is pretty far away from calling something a "capital offense".
    • yarou 12y ago
      You missed my point entirely. The reason why women are objectified is that sexuality is hidden in public in America. That's why hyper sexualized imagery exists in comic books and the like. This is a unique and peculiar American problem; posters from other countries don't have the same issues.
      • Fomite 12y ago
        I've traveled a good bit of the world, and lived in a number of non-American countries (including some where sexuality is more...upfront), and hyper-sexualized imagery of women, and the attendant problems, are hardly a uniquely American phenomenon. It might be comforting to believe it to be so, but it's not. Hell, one of the most problematic comic covers I can think of in the most recent past wasn't even by an American artist.
• deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
• moomin 12y ago
  Quite a lot of people appear to be under the impression this is about comics.
• ChicagoDave 12y ago
  I had the exact same experience about 6 years ago...my second oldest daughter (I have four) wanted comic books. She'd found some cool ones about Mary Jane Watson that were probably young adult-ish in story, but the drawings were pretty okay (nothing overtly sexual). So we went to a comic book store and immediately the guy behind the counter jumped out and steered my kids to a very small corner in the front of his store. He looked me in the eye and said, "They really need to stay in this section." I look at the rest of this very large store and it's a few teenagers, but mostly middle-aged men. The image I got in my head was not one of the defensible comic-book reader, but of a soft-porn environment. So we looked at the kids comics and it was Archie and stuff. Nothing that my daughter wanted because she wanted the "drama" and "serious" tone...without the hyper-sexualized stories and images. We asked the owner and he said there was no market for those comics. They (the publishers) tried a few, and he named the exact comic my daughter had found, but those just didn't sell. So we left with a handful of replacement comics, but we never went again and my daughter moved on, never even considering a comic book again. She reads YA novels now. The YA novel industry is huge. I really don't understand why there's no market for YA comic books (not graphic novels). It seems odd and sad.
• MichaelMoser123 12y ago
  Hello? they have the Winx comics series http://winx.wikia.com/wiki/Winx_Club_Comic_Series http://winx.wikia.com/wiki/Winx_Club_Comic_Series Here the main heroes are girl fairies in high school (greetings from Harry Potter) and they even have a fairy of technology who has to fix things; my daughters (five and eight) like these. Also in Germany they have Donald Duck series (quite popular); don't know why they don't have that in the US