15 ms·

You'd think after 10 years having model after model of aluminium built laptops, Apple would have found a way to solve the heat issues they always have... but no

by techrat 12y ago

You'd think after 10 years having model after model of aluminium built laptops, Apple would have found a way to solve the heat issues they always have... but nope, they still think it's a good idea to put the heat exhaust vent right up against the bottom lip of the screen where it is still blocked when the machine is in use.

chroma 12y ago
Where else can one put air vents on a laptop? The sides are taken up by expansion ports and speakers. The front is blocked by the battery. The bottom is often obstructed by blankets, clothing, etc. The top is for the keyboard, trackpad, and palm rest. Putting vents at the hinge actually makes the most sense. It guarantees ventilation ports won't be fully obstructed. The vents face away from the user, reducing fan noise. Air ducts are short, since that area is close to the CPU/GPU. It's hard to cool a laptop that can generate 85 watts of heat. Moreso if one cares about it looking nice and being thin. You may not like the trade-offs Apple chooses, but they put a lot of thought into their industrial design.
- marcosdumay 12y ago
  Most laptops have the batteries on the back, making the front available for connectors. Most laptops have ventilation on a side, and some complement it with bottom holes. Also, Apple could place their CPU/GPU wherever they wanted.
- gnarbarian 12y ago
  My Latitude E5430 has them on the left side near the back, and two places on the bottom (the rear left side and the front middle).
  - apetrovic 12y ago
    I hate laptops with vents on the bottom. I can't put it on my lap without constantly thinking did my leg obstructed the hole, I can't put it on the bed because the vents will be clogged. The only place where laptops with vents on the bottom works well is the desk.
    - gnarbarian 12y ago
      Gotta hand it to apple on this one. They clogged the vents so you don't have to worry about it. Laptop overheats? Must be Intel's fault. This is the reality distortion field.
      - chroma 12y ago
        Please stop.
        stefantalpalaru 12y ago
        Who are you to tell somebody else to stop posting in a public forum? No, putting "please" in front does not make your aggression any less impolite.
        gnarbarian 12y ago
        It's very passive aggressive but it seemed to work, he said that and 10 minutes later half my comments on this page dropped from +4 to -4.
        stefantalpalaru 12y ago
        There are people/bots that will go through your comment history and downvote all your recent comments when you piss off the wrong users.
        gnarbarian 12y ago
        Sorry, people keep replying and I can't help but tease the reality distortion field. Why do you care so much? It's just a laptop, who cares what a bunch of us neckbeards laugh at? Nothing should be beyond reproach here. This is hacker news not daring fireball.
        Kurtz79 12y ago
        If you want flame wars and care about upvotes/downvotes, there are plenty of other websites that will oblige. Here posts are supposed to add something to the discussion, not to "tease" or provoke a response.
  - chroma 12y ago
    That laptop is twice as thick as a rMBP and puts out less than half as much heat. Even if Apple put vents in those places, it wouldn't cool adequately; the vent area would be half that of the Dell. To get the same temperatures, airflow would have to be 4x faster than in the Dell. And as I said before, vents on the bottom increase the risk of overheating when used on a bed or carpet. Critics hold Apple to a higher standard than other companies, and the media reports Apple's failings more than other companies. There are tons of examples: iPhone 6 bending (it's just as sturdy as other phones), solder separation issues (rare; limited to a few first-gen models), overheating (again, rare and usually first-gen models). Other manufacturers have similar issues, but you never hear about them because they don't get eyeballs. Few care if some model of HP laptop overheats. In general, Apple makes quality hardware. If it were otherwise, they wouldn't be able to charge so much. Edit: I have no idea why this comment has been downvoted. Anyone want to clue me in?
    - gnarbarian 12y ago
      As opposed to a mbp, which apparently will eventually overheat regardless of where it's placed.
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      > In general, Apple makes quality hardware. If it were otherwise, they wouldn't be able to charge so much. Oh, so you have never heard of the power of Marketing and branding ?
    - mike-cardwell 12y ago
      "In general, Apple makes quality hardware. If it were otherwise, they wouldn't be able to charge so much." My experience of Apple hardware, from owning it myself and from seeing how it fares for those around me who also use it, is that it's pretty, but poorly designed, lacking in features, and very unreliable. They are able to charge so much because they market it well. Also, OSX is a decent OS in comparison to Windows, for those who can't be bothered to learn Linux.
      - Retra 12y ago
        I don't really think that "learning Linux" makes it a better OS. Investing your time into Linux, maybe, but some of us want our OS to be time savers, not a time sinks.
- mike-cardwell 12y ago
  My Thinkpad has air vents on the left hand side, and also on the back. Except, the ones on the back aren't blocked like they are on Macbooks, because the Thinkpads design is based on what is sensible rather than on what will make the thinnest possible computer.
  - Kurtz79 12y ago
    I don't know what model you have, but my old T61p with dedicated graphics had the same heating issues as my newer Macbook Pro.
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      My x220 has air vents at the back, on the left side and several at the bottom of its base. Even when it heats up the temperature stays very much controlled.
    - mike-cardwell 12y ago
      A T420 with no heat issues whatsoever. [edit] Not a great image but you can see where the vents are on the back and the left hand side on this image: https://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpIDoMt_OkYzjIF9E6HRSEJ0dMcaAVqUEgAurzsRjaF6kzLNKYGg https://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpIDoMt_OkYzjIF9E6... Doesn't matter how far I fold the screen back, the vents aren't blocked by it.
      - Kurtz79 12y ago
        From this review ( http://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t420/ http://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t420/ ): "Thick and bulky, with a keyboard studded with enough auxiliary buttons to look like a space shuttle control panel, the T420 is as old-school as a laptop can be." I mean, it's all a matter of trade-offs, as the parent says. Personally I have been using my Macbook mostly as a desktop replacement, so in hindsight I would probably trade the small form factor for better cooling and more sustained performance, for people using a laptop more "dynamically" (carrying it around daily), I can see mobility to come first. EDIT: Have you ever owned an ultrabook or a netbook ? I went from a T61p to a Macbook Air the the increase in mobility was significant. I used it on bed, on the couch, on the train, with no discomfort at all even after hours on end, unlike the bulkier laptops I owned before.
- rtpg 12y ago
  they have little feet, they could totally put ventilation on the bottom (in fact many laptops do that already)
  - jbrooksuk 12y ago
    Except the feet can come off, thus rendering the ventilation useless if that were to happen.
- pmarin 12y ago
  The original eeepc uses the keyboard as heatsink.
  - ddoolin 12y ago
    Thanks for pointing this out; I used the original EeePC for a long time but could only remember that I had had a laptop where the heat exhausted through the keyboard, not which model. Interesting but once it really started to kick up, this may not actually be a good option.
- berkut 12y ago
  The problem is that as you push the screen back from vertical, the area for air to escape gets reduced.
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    I had not noticed that but it is true! Does anyone know if the case acts as a good heatsink? I always assumed that was why they went with aluminium, other than it looking great.
- STRML 12y ago
  The thinness is the critical problem, and to be honest with most consumer electronics (phones especially; please give me a larger, replaceable battery), I wish they would stop the race to the bottom and instead deliver more functional and longer-lasting productions. I have an rMBP 15" and a 15" Lenovo Y500. The Y500 cost less than half of the rMBP for equivalent performance but the experience, battery, screen, trackpad, etc are of course much better on the Mac. But for intensive tasks, even with nearly identical internals and the same OS, the Y500 is far more pleasant to use. Say what you want about Lenovo and the terrible things they've done to their laptops in the last few years, but the Y500 is designed to expel heat in the least obtrusive manner possible and it does an amazing job. At full bore, all cores, maybe a game, the Y500 happily pushes a lot of air out the side vent, and the keyboard, trackpad, bezels, etc., stay very cool. With the same workload, the rMBP gets very, very hot and seems to blow a small amount of air out of the keyboard (?), occasionally burning my fingers, It's loud and very uncomfortable to use. In a sense it definitely makes me feel like I overpaid for the extra speed, since I can't use it comfortably anyway.
- lookrealclose 12y ago
  I don't know... maybe on the side like my Latitude. I thought Apple users knew how to "think outside the box" LOL!
IndianAstronaut 12y ago
I have always used an external laptop cooler with my macbook.
- Kurtz79 12y ago
  If you are speaking about stands with fans at the bottom, in my experience they do next to nothing. All they do is "cooling" the aluminum bottom case, which has no contact (or though holes) with the inside parts of the laptop generating heath.
gnarbarian 12y ago
My guess is they don't care as long at the vast majority make it past their warranty date
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  I've never had a macbook break down even way past warranty.
grandalf 12y ago
I'm sure Apple has done some pretty exhaustive (no pun intended) thermodynamic analysis of the case design. I have three macbooks, two airs and a 13" mpbr, and none have had any thermal issues at all, even in the heat of summer. If you are using a laptop in a way that generates that much heat, you probably get about 1 hour of battery life, which sort of defeats the purpose of having a laptop in the first place. A larger fan or heavier case material would also make the laptop less user-friendly for the vast majority of users.
- marcosdumay 12y ago
  I'm a big fan of desktops... But you know, sometimes people want a portable computer, and also want to use it intensively once on a while.
- michaelt 12y ago
  I'm sure Apple has done some pretty exhaustive (no pun intended) thermodynamic analysis of the case design. If (as this article says) users have to reflow their boards and drill holes in their cases, I would say not exhaustive enough!
- slantyyz 12y ago
  I think a big part of why the early 2011 MBPs are an outlier is that the Sandy Bridge CPUs Apple put in the 2011 MBP simply ran very hot under load.

by techrat 12y ago

chroma 12y ago

Where else can one put air vents on a laptop? The sides are taken up by expansion ports and speakers. The front is blocked by the battery. The bottom is often obstructed by blankets, clothing, etc. The top is for the keyboard, trackpad, and palm rest. Putting vents at the hinge actually makes the most sense. It guarantees ventilation ports won't be fully obstructed. The vents face away from the user, reducing fan noise. Air ducts are short, since that area is close to the CPU/GPU. It's hard to cool a laptop that can generate 85 watts of heat. Moreso if one cares about it looking nice and being thin. You may not like the trade-offs Apple chooses, but they put a lot of thought into their industrial design.

marcosdumay 12y ago
Most laptops have the batteries on the back, making the front available for connectors. Most laptops have ventilation on a side, and some complement it with bottom holes. Also, Apple could place their CPU/GPU wherever they wanted.
gnarbarian 12y ago
My Latitude E5430 has them on the left side near the back, and two places on the bottom (the rear left side and the front middle).
- apetrovic 12y ago
  I hate laptops with vents on the bottom. I can't put it on my lap without constantly thinking did my leg obstructed the hole, I can't put it on the bed because the vents will be clogged. The only place where laptops with vents on the bottom works well is the desk.
  - gnarbarian 12y ago
    Gotta hand it to apple on this one. They clogged the vents so you don't have to worry about it. Laptop overheats? Must be Intel's fault. This is the reality distortion field.
    - chroma 12y ago
      Please stop.
      - stefantalpalaru 12y ago
        Who are you to tell somebody else to stop posting in a public forum? No, putting "please" in front does not make your aggression any less impolite.
        gnarbarian 12y ago
        It's very passive aggressive but it seemed to work, he said that and 10 minutes later half my comments on this page dropped from +4 to -4.
        stefantalpalaru 12y ago
        There are people/bots that will go through your comment history and downvote all your recent comments when you piss off the wrong users.
      - gnarbarian 12y ago
        Sorry, people keep replying and I can't help but tease the reality distortion field. Why do you care so much? It's just a laptop, who cares what a bunch of us neckbeards laugh at? Nothing should be beyond reproach here. This is hacker news not daring fireball.
        Kurtz79 12y ago
        If you want flame wars and care about upvotes/downvotes, there are plenty of other websites that will oblige. Here posts are supposed to add something to the discussion, not to "tease" or provoke a response.
- chroma 12y ago
  That laptop is twice as thick as a rMBP and puts out less than half as much heat. Even if Apple put vents in those places, it wouldn't cool adequately; the vent area would be half that of the Dell. To get the same temperatures, airflow would have to be 4x faster than in the Dell. And as I said before, vents on the bottom increase the risk of overheating when used on a bed or carpet. Critics hold Apple to a higher standard than other companies, and the media reports Apple's failings more than other companies. There are tons of examples: iPhone 6 bending (it's just as sturdy as other phones), solder separation issues (rare; limited to a few first-gen models), overheating (again, rare and usually first-gen models). Other manufacturers have similar issues, but you never hear about them because they don't get eyeballs. Few care if some model of HP laptop overheats. In general, Apple makes quality hardware. If it were otherwise, they wouldn't be able to charge so much. Edit: I have no idea why this comment has been downvoted. Anyone want to clue me in?
  - gnarbarian 12y ago
    As opposed to a mbp, which apparently will eventually overheat regardless of where it's placed.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    > In general, Apple makes quality hardware. If it were otherwise, they wouldn't be able to charge so much. Oh, so you have never heard of the power of Marketing and branding ?
  - mike-cardwell 12y ago
    "In general, Apple makes quality hardware. If it were otherwise, they wouldn't be able to charge so much." My experience of Apple hardware, from owning it myself and from seeing how it fares for those around me who also use it, is that it's pretty, but poorly designed, lacking in features, and very unreliable. They are able to charge so much because they market it well. Also, OSX is a decent OS in comparison to Windows, for those who can't be bothered to learn Linux.
    - Retra 12y ago
      I don't really think that "learning Linux" makes it a better OS. Investing your time into Linux, maybe, but some of us want our OS to be time savers, not a time sinks.
mike-cardwell 12y ago
My Thinkpad has air vents on the left hand side, and also on the back. Except, the ones on the back aren't blocked like they are on Macbooks, because the Thinkpads design is based on what is sensible rather than on what will make the thinnest possible computer.
- Kurtz79 12y ago
  I don't know what model you have, but my old T61p with dedicated graphics had the same heating issues as my newer Macbook Pro.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    My x220 has air vents at the back, on the left side and several at the bottom of its base. Even when it heats up the temperature stays very much controlled.
  - mike-cardwell 12y ago
    A T420 with no heat issues whatsoever. [edit] Not a great image but you can see where the vents are on the back and the left hand side on this image: https://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpIDoMt_OkYzjIF9E6HRSEJ0dMcaAVqUEgAurzsRjaF6kzLNKYGg https://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpIDoMt_OkYzjIF9E6... Doesn't matter how far I fold the screen back, the vents aren't blocked by it.
    - Kurtz79 12y ago
      From this review ( http://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t420/ http://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-thinkpad-t420/ ): "Thick and bulky, with a keyboard studded with enough auxiliary buttons to look like a space shuttle control panel, the T420 is as old-school as a laptop can be." I mean, it's all a matter of trade-offs, as the parent says. Personally I have been using my Macbook mostly as a desktop replacement, so in hindsight I would probably trade the small form factor for better cooling and more sustained performance, for people using a laptop more "dynamically" (carrying it around daily), I can see mobility to come first. EDIT: Have you ever owned an ultrabook or a netbook ? I went from a T61p to a Macbook Air the the increase in mobility was significant. I used it on bed, on the couch, on the train, with no discomfort at all even after hours on end, unlike the bulkier laptops I owned before.
rtpg 12y ago
they have little feet, they could totally put ventilation on the bottom (in fact many laptops do that already)
- jbrooksuk 12y ago
  Except the feet can come off, thus rendering the ventilation useless if that were to happen.
pmarin 12y ago
The original eeepc uses the keyboard as heatsink.
- ddoolin 12y ago
  Thanks for pointing this out; I used the original EeePC for a long time but could only remember that I had had a laptop where the heat exhausted through the keyboard, not which model. Interesting but once it really started to kick up, this may not actually be a good option.
berkut 12y ago
The problem is that as you push the screen back from vertical, the area for air to escape gets reduced.
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  I had not noticed that but it is true! Does anyone know if the case acts as a good heatsink? I always assumed that was why they went with aluminium, other than it looking great.
STRML 12y ago
The thinness is the critical problem, and to be honest with most consumer electronics (phones especially; please give me a larger, replaceable battery), I wish they would stop the race to the bottom and instead deliver more functional and longer-lasting productions. I have an rMBP 15" and a 15" Lenovo Y500. The Y500 cost less than half of the rMBP for equivalent performance but the experience, battery, screen, trackpad, etc are of course much better on the Mac. But for intensive tasks, even with nearly identical internals and the same OS, the Y500 is far more pleasant to use. Say what you want about Lenovo and the terrible things they've done to their laptops in the last few years, but the Y500 is designed to expel heat in the least obtrusive manner possible and it does an amazing job. At full bore, all cores, maybe a game, the Y500 happily pushes a lot of air out the side vent, and the keyboard, trackpad, bezels, etc., stay very cool. With the same workload, the rMBP gets very, very hot and seems to blow a small amount of air out of the keyboard (?), occasionally burning my fingers, It's loud and very uncomfortable to use. In a sense it definitely makes me feel like I overpaid for the extra speed, since I can't use it comfortably anyway.
lookrealclose 12y ago
I don't know... maybe on the side like my Latitude. I thought Apple users knew how to "think outside the box" LOL!

IndianAstronaut 12y ago

I have always used an external laptop cooler with my macbook.

Kurtz79 12y ago
If you are speaking about stands with fans at the bottom, in my experience they do next to nothing. All they do is "cooling" the aluminum bottom case, which has no contact (or though holes) with the inside parts of the laptop generating heath.

gnarbarian 12y ago

My guess is they don't care as long at the vast majority make it past their warranty date

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
I've never had a macbook break down even way past warranty.

grandalf 12y ago

I'm sure Apple has done some pretty exhaustive (no pun intended) thermodynamic analysis of the case design. I have three macbooks, two airs and a 13" mpbr, and none have had any thermal issues at all, even in the heat of summer. If you are using a laptop in a way that generates that much heat, you probably get about 1 hour of battery life, which sort of defeats the purpose of having a laptop in the first place. A larger fan or heavier case material would also make the laptop less user-friendly for the vast majority of users.

marcosdumay 12y ago
I'm a big fan of desktops... But you know, sometimes people want a portable computer, and also want to use it intensively once on a while.
michaelt 12y ago
I'm sure Apple has done some pretty exhaustive (no pun intended) thermodynamic analysis of the case design. If (as this article says) users have to reflow their boards and drill holes in their cases, I would say not exhaustive enough!
slantyyz 12y ago
I think a big part of why the early 2011 MBPs are an outlier is that the Sandy Bridge CPUs Apple put in the 2011 MBP simply ran very hot under load.