9 ms·

Yosemite has been a major regression in almost every respect, I actually regret upgrading. Aside from the obvious and major performance and stability issues the

Yosemite has been a major regression in almost every respect, I actually regret upgrading. Aside from the obvious and major performance and stability issues the major features are just plain broken. For example, try answering your phone from your computer. It takes way too long to actually pick up the call from the phone and then when you try to answer it bugs up so that in the end you can never actually answer the call. This is completely unacceptable behavior and a feature like this should have never been released unless it was exceptionally reliable and seamless. It seems Apple is more concerned with showing off the concepts behind these features than making sure they actually deliver a solid experience when their released. Another case in point is the changes to AirPlay for the AppleTV. The new approach to connecting a device should be a big improvement, instead it's a buggy mess that makes it nearly impossible for us to use it anymore. One of the most refreshing things about moving from primarily using Windows/Linux to a Mac for me was the sensibility, stability and the fact that things just worked the way you expected them to. Now that seems to be completely lost.

tolmasky 12y ago
The phone thing was infuriating. After upgrading all of a sudden every device I own would start ringing like crazy: phone, computer, Apple TV STOPS airplay because the iPad streaming to it was also buzzing like mad. I KNOW I KNOW, you can turn it off, but I hate the fact that upgrading my OS has now become "turn off the 10 gimmick features so you can get back to some level of sanity", especially because after I pick up the call I completely forget about it (I'm not going to not take the call and then start going through the prefs on my x devices). So the other day I finally gave in and just hit accept on my computer -- and ... call failed. Great. I felt like I was on candid camera or something, the employees at Apple viewing me through my iSight camera on my monitor laughing at the sucker who finally took the bait. As far as the Apple TV is concerned, I've completely given up. Its incredible how a product can be ruined through software updates. Forgetting the lack of attention, that thing was good. AirPlay was a good feature. Hardly works anymore. I've more or less completely switched to Amazon Fire TV/Stick. The voice search on that thing is seriously impressive. And even without that, just scrolling through shows doesn't drive you up the wall. Its like someone actually considered how someone would use the device.
- ntSean 12y ago
  All of the features you've just canned, I use regularly, and don't see the huge issue that you're talking about. I receive calls on my laptop daily and I've very rarely had it fail. I find being able to reply to texts and calls insanely useful. Regardless of my anecdote all new technology is prone to bugs. To say "turn off the 10 gimmick features so you can get back to some level of sanity" is ridiculous. The feature you're talking about is Handoff, its 1 checkbox in your device. Airplay not working? I use it regularly again, with Plex and Beamer, its one of the most useful things I have connected. You say its ruined through software updates, but then go on to say that your gripe is the interaction interface? And of all things, scrolling. Wouldn't that be a pre-existing condition? I feel like your frustration could be solved with just simply setting up your devices in a way that suits your uses, not the common denominator.
  - lobster_johnson 12y ago
    If Yosemite, iOS 8 and other recent changes have shown anything, it is that that problems are not consistent across the user base -- some users are plagued by bugs, while others are somehow, inexplicably completely problem-free. I myself have been hit hard by Yosemite bugs (graphics glitches, slowness, wifi not connecting at all, very slow wifi, Mac not coming out of sleep, AirPlay issues, Airdrop issues, Bluetooth suddenly disappearing etc., all this on a fast, fairly new MBP), but I have never experienced any iOS 8 bugs of note. The corollary is that when someone complains, we need to take it seriously and not pretend everything is fine. Clearly many people are hit by problems, and the problems are very real.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      >If Yosemite, iOS 8 and other recent changes have shown anything, it is that that problems are not consistent across the user base -- some users are plagued by bugs, while others are somehow, inexplicably completely problem-free. Not really inexplicably: different graphics and airport cards (in different Mac models), different wi-fi routers, some have installed BS haxies while others have not, some have updated their OS on top of the previous installation for 3-4 OSes, where others start from a clean slate, etc. Regarding Hangout, it's also different iOS device version, proximity to the phone, etc.
mrmondo 12y ago
I could not agree more with your frustrations and observations luciferre, I do hope someone out there from Apple will spot the concerns raised here and take them more seriously than those reported as bugs.
blkhp19 12y ago
Answering calls on my Mac is one of my favorite new features. When it works, it works well. When it doesn't work, it fails upfront. You really have to play with your icloud and FaceTime settings to trick it into working. It's absurd how complicated the whole relationship between iCloud, FaceTime, iMessages, and my devices is. The settings need to be perfect for things to work correctly. I can't even imagine if it was someone who wasn't tech-savvy trying to use these features.
- gcb0 12y ago
  buy a phone from Motorola. the pc phone integration for that is pretty good. and been there for ages
- derefr 12y ago
  You should see what you have to do to get SMS Continuity working if you have a phone provider that hasn't been "verified" by Apple as supporting iMessage: http://www.theonlinemac.com/windhelp http://www.theonlinemac.com/windhelp
city41 12y ago
I'm at my wits end with Yosemite. I'm very seriously considering switching to Linux or Windows. Of the numerous problems this OS has, my biggest problem is waking my rMBP from sleep. About 20% of the time, it just doesn't wake up and requires a hard shutdown. I never had that problem with Mountain Lion or Mavericks.
- rajeevk 12y ago
  Same with me. Before upgrading I always used to close the lid to make my macbook to sleep. The wake-up experience was good. But after upgrading, after waking up the system becomes too slow to use. I have to restart. So stopped putting my mac book pro to sleep. Now I always have to shut down when not using. Apart from sleep-wakeup problem, in general this has become much slower compared to mavericks Probably this could be related to hardware config. I have a mac book pro at work with 8GB ram and it works fine. My personal mac book pro has 4GB ram and it has problem.
  - mullingitover 12y ago
    That's no problem, just upgrade your ram! Oh wait...
    - raverbashing 12y ago
      You can upgrade the RAM on the MacBook Pro Source: using 16GB here
      - lwh 12y ago
        Many recent models are non-upgradeable
      - mullingitover 12y ago
        None of the rMBPs, nor the minis have upgradeable ram. If I had to put money on it I'd bet a dollar the next-gen iMacs will be in the same boat. Just too hard to pass up that 400% markup.
oscargrouch 12y ago
I've always thought of Apple as a marketing company that happens to sell technology, and not a technology company that sells through marketing. Also the capitalism of today with all of its lust for profits, sales, budgets, and deadlines its kind of luddite, can have a predatory behaviour for innovation and advancements in technology in general. I think if tech companies want to survive for more than 10/20 years, they will need to get into the core of the system, of THE machine, and figure it out better ways to survive by really delivering good tech and innovation, and not by just promissing a world with rainbows and unicorns
- code_duck 12y ago
  A marketing company that happens to sell technology would be selling some sort of standard solution. As Apple develops everything from their protocols to chips to operating systems to complete devices in house... I'd say they're a technology company who also takes marketing very seriously.
  - oscargrouch 12y ago
    My point is, Apple is not successful because they have the best technology, they are successful because they have the best marketing (and cult followers)
- simonh 12y ago
  They design their own CPUs, displays, operating systems, consumer and professional applications, connectors, development tools and languages, desktops, laptops and mobile devices in house. Which company would you say has a greater engineering footprint across technologies and business sectors than Apple? There are a few tech companies that actually do one or two things that Apple doesn't, but I can't think of any that do everything that Apple does.
- oscargrouch 12y ago
  Oh forgive me priest of the Apple church, cause i've committed a sin.. How many ipads i have to buy to be forgiven? creepy..
kyriakos 12y ago
Sorry for the ignorance, Windows user here. Can't you somehow downgrade?
- ntSean 12y ago
  You can, its actually easier than in Windows since theres no licensing issues to handle.
  - basch 12y ago
    Windows doesnt really have licensing issues. You call a phone number, tell them you want to activate windows, read them a number, and a machine reads you a number. It takes about 6 minutes of your life, and Microsoft always activates when you ask. For example, if you buy Windows 8.1 you have downgrade rights to every earlier version. All you do is speak with a person, say "I would like to activate windows" and they say ok. Its not a hassle unless you do it daily.
    - r00fus 12y ago
      It's a hassle if you have to call the vendor at all. Not all Windows versions have downgrade rights (see Vista, certain editions of 7). Also pricing is an issue: all recent desktop versions of MacOSX are either free or very inexpensive ($30 or less). You could likewise say that filing an insurance claim is easy... sure, but for some folks even knowing to make the call is an undue burden - exactly how the vendor wants it.
      - pedalpete 12y ago
        As a counter argument, Apple fans are always telling me "just go to the genius bar, they'll sort it out". As if that isn't a hassle. I've never had the need to take any of my windows machines in to be serviced.
- cmelbye 12y ago
  Old versions of OS X that you've previously downloaded are always available for re-download in the Mac App Store. You can use those downloads to downgrade.
vbezhenar 12y ago
One major drawback for me is a constant flickering in Intellij Idea and Emacs. I'm not sure who is responsible for this, but user experience is just terrible. I'll definitely downgrade to 10.9 when I'll have enough spare time. I didn't see much problems besides it. I like new design, animations are smooth enough for me and everything works well enough.
- cmsimike 12y ago
  I noticed the same in IntelliJ 12. Tried 14 and still had issues. I noticed the flickering goes away once I've turned off Flux (or, at least it doesn't flicker as often). Not saying it is Flux's fault but I'm curious if you're running Flux and get the same result when exiting.
  - vbezhenar 12y ago
    No, I don't use Flux.
- lastofus 12y ago
  I noticed the same flickering in PyCharm (Python flavored Intellij Idea). I hadn't realized it started after upgrading to Yosemite but it makes sense now. I had assumed it was caused by upgrading to PyCharm 4.0 from 3.x.
  - Schlaefer 12y ago
    There's an extended ticket for that issue [1]. The gist is to update to the latest Java 1.8. For PHPStorm JetBrains has also released a version with a bundled JDK 1.8 which fixes the flickering for me [2]. [1] https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-131593 https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-131593 [2] http://blog.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/2014/12/phpstorm-8-0-2-bug-fix-update-is-available/ http://blog.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/2014/12/phpstorm-8-0-2-bu...
- __david__ 12y ago
  Re: Emacs: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=18757 http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=18757
atmosx 12y ago
I answer my mobile from my iMac regularly without issues. I don't have the 'continuity' feature due to Apple's choice to block old iMacs (mine is a late-08 model), other than that, it's a bit slower at app-launching but I didn't had any major issues.
- pilif 12y ago
  >due to Apple's choice to block old iMacs this wasn't a choice of blocking older Macs. The fact is that continuity requires Bluetooth LE (or you would be complaining about greatly reduced phone battery life) and your old iMac doesn't have BT-LE capable hardware (BT-LE and BT only share the name - aside of that they are quite disimilar)
  - kmowery 12y ago
    It's a little less clear than that, unfortunately. Apple chose to not support third-party Bluetooth LE dongles, which might be a reasonable engineering limitation. However, if you upgrade your Mac with a BT-LE capable board used by other Continuity-capable Macs, you still can't use Continuity by default; you need to patch some kexts and disable kernel kext signing[1]. It really does feel like Apple blacklisted older machines from using Continuity; only third-party kext hacking can get things started again. [1] https://github.com/dokterdok/Continuity-Activation-Tool/ https://github.com/dokterdok/Continuity-Activation-Tool/
gnarmis 12y ago
Nope. Battery life and stability has been way better for me. And the UI improvements help a bunch. Also, the tight integration with iOS is so great. Stability is not "completely lost"
jseliger 12y ago
Aside from the obvious and major performance and stability issues Here's another one, which I've been experiencing: https://discussions.apple.com/message/27289663#27289663 https://discussions.apple.com/message/27289663#27289663 I don't know why WindowServer keeps crashing in this fashion.
protomyth 12y ago
Mavericks and Yosemite have broken Finders and some major crashing problems. Lion was also pretty horrible. I wish Apple would do another "Snow Leopard" so we can get back to a stable system. Yosemite also has some weird issues with SMB connections to servers.
abandonliberty 12y ago
>One of the most refreshing things about moving from primarily using Windows/Linux to a Mac for me was the sensibility, stability and the fact that things just worked the way you expected them to. Now that seems to be completely lost. Ha! No one cares about desktop any more. When you're ready you can try Windows 8, a surprisingly mature and stable OS that runs on a hardware ecosystem several orders of magnitude more complex. You get used to the fact that it was clearly designed to run on a tablet. The metro start page is actually quite good, even on desktop. But if you were serious, I'd look for a non-prism-compromised OS.
joesmo 12y ago
I do regret upgrading. My wireless trackball and mice no longer work smoothly and this is a known problem apparently with RF and bluetooth pointing devices. It's one thing to make things slower or for new features to be buggy, but making the system unusable is unacceptable, IMO. I'm looking at dual booting Linux now and possibly making the switch back. The only reason I haven't yet is because I luckily still have wired versions of the same trackball.

tolmasky 12y ago

The phone thing was infuriating. After upgrading all of a sudden every device I own would start ringing like crazy: phone, computer, Apple TV STOPS airplay because the iPad streaming to it was also buzzing like mad. I KNOW I KNOW, you can turn it off, but I hate the fact that upgrading my OS has now become "turn off the 10 gimmick features so you can get back to some level of sanity", especially because after I pick up the call I completely forget about it (I'm not going to not take the call and then start going through the prefs on my x devices). So the other day I finally gave in and just hit accept on my computer -- and ... call failed. Great. I felt like I was on candid camera or something, the employees at Apple viewing me through my iSight camera on my monitor laughing at the sucker who finally took the bait. As far as the Apple TV is concerned, I've completely given up. Its incredible how a product can be ruined through software updates. Forgetting the lack of attention, that thing was good. AirPlay was a good feature. Hardly works anymore. I've more or less completely switched to Amazon Fire TV/Stick. The voice search on that thing is seriously impressive. And even without that, just scrolling through shows doesn't drive you up the wall. Its like someone actually considered how someone would use the device.

ntSean 12y ago
All of the features you've just canned, I use regularly, and don't see the huge issue that you're talking about. I receive calls on my laptop daily and I've very rarely had it fail. I find being able to reply to texts and calls insanely useful. Regardless of my anecdote all new technology is prone to bugs. To say "turn off the 10 gimmick features so you can get back to some level of sanity" is ridiculous. The feature you're talking about is Handoff, its 1 checkbox in your device. Airplay not working? I use it regularly again, with Plex and Beamer, its one of the most useful things I have connected. You say its ruined through software updates, but then go on to say that your gripe is the interaction interface? And of all things, scrolling. Wouldn't that be a pre-existing condition? I feel like your frustration could be solved with just simply setting up your devices in a way that suits your uses, not the common denominator.
- lobster_johnson 12y ago
  If Yosemite, iOS 8 and other recent changes have shown anything, it is that that problems are not consistent across the user base -- some users are plagued by bugs, while others are somehow, inexplicably completely problem-free. I myself have been hit hard by Yosemite bugs (graphics glitches, slowness, wifi not connecting at all, very slow wifi, Mac not coming out of sleep, AirPlay issues, Airdrop issues, Bluetooth suddenly disappearing etc., all this on a fast, fairly new MBP), but I have never experienced any iOS 8 bugs of note. The corollary is that when someone complains, we need to take it seriously and not pretend everything is fine. Clearly many people are hit by problems, and the problems are very real.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    >If Yosemite, iOS 8 and other recent changes have shown anything, it is that that problems are not consistent across the user base -- some users are plagued by bugs, while others are somehow, inexplicably completely problem-free. Not really inexplicably: different graphics and airport cards (in different Mac models), different wi-fi routers, some have installed BS haxies while others have not, some have updated their OS on top of the previous installation for 3-4 OSes, where others start from a clean slate, etc. Regarding Hangout, it's also different iOS device version, proximity to the phone, etc.

mrmondo 12y ago

I could not agree more with your frustrations and observations luciferre, I do hope someone out there from Apple will spot the concerns raised here and take them more seriously than those reported as bugs.

blkhp19 12y ago

Answering calls on my Mac is one of my favorite new features. When it works, it works well. When it doesn't work, it fails upfront. You really have to play with your icloud and FaceTime settings to trick it into working. It's absurd how complicated the whole relationship between iCloud, FaceTime, iMessages, and my devices is. The settings need to be perfect for things to work correctly. I can't even imagine if it was someone who wasn't tech-savvy trying to use these features.

gcb0 12y ago
buy a phone from Motorola. the pc phone integration for that is pretty good. and been there for ages
derefr 12y ago
You should see what you have to do to get SMS Continuity working if you have a phone provider that hasn't been "verified" by Apple as supporting iMessage: http://www.theonlinemac.com/windhelp http://www.theonlinemac.com/windhelp

city41 12y ago

I'm at my wits end with Yosemite. I'm very seriously considering switching to Linux or Windows. Of the numerous problems this OS has, my biggest problem is waking my rMBP from sleep. About 20% of the time, it just doesn't wake up and requires a hard shutdown. I never had that problem with Mountain Lion or Mavericks.

rajeevk 12y ago
Same with me. Before upgrading I always used to close the lid to make my macbook to sleep. The wake-up experience was good. But after upgrading, after waking up the system becomes too slow to use. I have to restart. So stopped putting my mac book pro to sleep. Now I always have to shut down when not using. Apart from sleep-wakeup problem, in general this has become much slower compared to mavericks Probably this could be related to hardware config. I have a mac book pro at work with 8GB ram and it works fine. My personal mac book pro has 4GB ram and it has problem.
- mullingitover 12y ago
  That's no problem, just upgrade your ram! Oh wait...
  - raverbashing 12y ago
    You can upgrade the RAM on the MacBook Pro Source: using 16GB here
    - lwh 12y ago
      Many recent models are non-upgradeable
    - mullingitover 12y ago
      None of the rMBPs, nor the minis have upgradeable ram. If I had to put money on it I'd bet a dollar the next-gen iMacs will be in the same boat. Just too hard to pass up that 400% markup.

oscargrouch 12y ago

I've always thought of Apple as a marketing company that happens to sell technology, and not a technology company that sells through marketing. Also the capitalism of today with all of its lust for profits, sales, budgets, and deadlines its kind of luddite, can have a predatory behaviour for innovation and advancements in technology in general. I think if tech companies want to survive for more than 10/20 years, they will need to get into the core of the system, of THE machine, and figure it out better ways to survive by really delivering good tech and innovation, and not by just promissing a world with rainbows and unicorns

code_duck 12y ago
A marketing company that happens to sell technology would be selling some sort of standard solution. As Apple develops everything from their protocols to chips to operating systems to complete devices in house... I'd say they're a technology company who also takes marketing very seriously.
- oscargrouch 12y ago
  My point is, Apple is not successful because they have the best technology, they are successful because they have the best marketing (and cult followers)
simonh 12y ago
They design their own CPUs, displays, operating systems, consumer and professional applications, connectors, development tools and languages, desktops, laptops and mobile devices in house. Which company would you say has a greater engineering footprint across technologies and business sectors than Apple? There are a few tech companies that actually do one or two things that Apple doesn't, but I can't think of any that do everything that Apple does.
oscargrouch 12y ago
Oh forgive me priest of the Apple church, cause i've committed a sin.. How many ipads i have to buy to be forgiven? creepy..

kyriakos 12y ago

Sorry for the ignorance, Windows user here. Can't you somehow downgrade?

ntSean 12y ago
You can, its actually easier than in Windows since theres no licensing issues to handle.
- basch 12y ago
  Windows doesnt really have licensing issues. You call a phone number, tell them you want to activate windows, read them a number, and a machine reads you a number. It takes about 6 minutes of your life, and Microsoft always activates when you ask. For example, if you buy Windows 8.1 you have downgrade rights to every earlier version. All you do is speak with a person, say "I would like to activate windows" and they say ok. Its not a hassle unless you do it daily.
  - r00fus 12y ago
    It's a hassle if you have to call the vendor at all. Not all Windows versions have downgrade rights (see Vista, certain editions of 7). Also pricing is an issue: all recent desktop versions of MacOSX are either free or very inexpensive ($30 or less). You could likewise say that filing an insurance claim is easy... sure, but for some folks even knowing to make the call is an undue burden - exactly how the vendor wants it.
    - pedalpete 12y ago
      As a counter argument, Apple fans are always telling me "just go to the genius bar, they'll sort it out". As if that isn't a hassle. I've never had the need to take any of my windows machines in to be serviced.
cmelbye 12y ago
Old versions of OS X that you've previously downloaded are always available for re-download in the Mac App Store. You can use those downloads to downgrade.

vbezhenar 12y ago

One major drawback for me is a constant flickering in Intellij Idea and Emacs. I'm not sure who is responsible for this, but user experience is just terrible. I'll definitely downgrade to 10.9 when I'll have enough spare time. I didn't see much problems besides it. I like new design, animations are smooth enough for me and everything works well enough.

cmsimike 12y ago
I noticed the same in IntelliJ 12. Tried 14 and still had issues. I noticed the flickering goes away once I've turned off Flux (or, at least it doesn't flicker as often). Not saying it is Flux's fault but I'm curious if you're running Flux and get the same result when exiting.
- vbezhenar 12y ago
  No, I don't use Flux.
lastofus 12y ago
I noticed the same flickering in PyCharm (Python flavored Intellij Idea). I hadn't realized it started after upgrading to Yosemite but it makes sense now. I had assumed it was caused by upgrading to PyCharm 4.0 from 3.x.
- Schlaefer 12y ago
  There's an extended ticket for that issue [1]. The gist is to update to the latest Java 1.8. For PHPStorm JetBrains has also released a version with a bundled JDK 1.8 which fixes the flickering for me [2]. [1] https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-131593 https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-131593 [2] http://blog.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/2014/12/phpstorm-8-0-2-bug-fix-update-is-available/ http://blog.jetbrains.com/phpstorm/2014/12/phpstorm-8-0-2-bu...
__david__ 12y ago
Re: Emacs: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=18757 http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=18757

atmosx 12y ago

I answer my mobile from my iMac regularly without issues. I don't have the 'continuity' feature due to Apple's choice to block old iMacs (mine is a late-08 model), other than that, it's a bit slower at app-launching but I didn't had any major issues.

pilif 12y ago
>due to Apple's choice to block old iMacs this wasn't a choice of blocking older Macs. The fact is that continuity requires Bluetooth LE (or you would be complaining about greatly reduced phone battery life) and your old iMac doesn't have BT-LE capable hardware (BT-LE and BT only share the name - aside of that they are quite disimilar)
- kmowery 12y ago
  It's a little less clear than that, unfortunately. Apple chose to not support third-party Bluetooth LE dongles, which might be a reasonable engineering limitation. However, if you upgrade your Mac with a BT-LE capable board used by other Continuity-capable Macs, you still can't use Continuity by default; you need to patch some kexts and disable kernel kext signing[1]. It really does feel like Apple blacklisted older machines from using Continuity; only third-party kext hacking can get things started again. [1] https://github.com/dokterdok/Continuity-Activation-Tool/ https://github.com/dokterdok/Continuity-Activation-Tool/

gnarmis 12y ago

Nope. Battery life and stability has been way better for me. And the UI improvements help a bunch. Also, the tight integration with iOS is so great. Stability is not "completely lost"

jseliger 12y ago

Aside from the obvious and major performance and stability issues Here's another one, which I've been experiencing: https://discussions.apple.com/message/27289663#27289663 https://discussions.apple.com/message/27289663#27289663 I don't know why WindowServer keeps crashing in this fashion.

protomyth 12y ago

Mavericks and Yosemite have broken Finders and some major crashing problems. Lion was also pretty horrible. I wish Apple would do another "Snow Leopard" so we can get back to a stable system. Yosemite also has some weird issues with SMB connections to servers.

abandonliberty 12y ago

>One of the most refreshing things about moving from primarily using Windows/Linux to a Mac for me was the sensibility, stability and the fact that things just worked the way you expected them to. Now that seems to be completely lost. Ha! No one cares about desktop any more. When you're ready you can try Windows 8, a surprisingly mature and stable OS that runs on a hardware ecosystem several orders of magnitude more complex. You get used to the fact that it was clearly designed to run on a tablet. The metro start page is actually quite good, even on desktop. But if you were serious, I'd look for a non-prism-compromised OS.

joesmo 12y ago

I do regret upgrading. My wireless trackball and mice no longer work smoothly and this is a known problem apparently with RF and bluetooth pointing devices. It's one thing to make things slower or for new features to be buggy, but making the system unusable is unacceptable, IMO. I'm looking at dual booting Linux now and possibly making the switch back. The only reason I haven't yet is because I luckily still have wired versions of the same trackball.