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It's a hard sell to get me to concern myself with the environment when humanity is headed in the direction it's going. The earth will be just fine, even in the

It's a hard sell to get me to concern myself with the environment when humanity is headed in the direction it's going. The earth will be just fine, even in the event that we can no longer survive on it, I'm more concerned with the question of if humanity is even worth saving.

worldsayshi 12y ago
Soo... If we are unable to solve our problems we are worth saving but if we are not able we are not worth it? So it is up to us then, as always.
- patronagezero 12y ago
  On an individual level, yes. However, if we require some central authority to demand at the point of a gun (abstractly) for us to clean up our act, then I think we're better off facing our own obsolescence.
ars 12y ago
Even the worst climate change will not hurt humans all that much. It will cause all sorts of changes I'm sure, but globally both humans and animals will be just fine. There will be different animals in different places, some will die, but as a whole all will be just fine. > I'm more concerned with the question of if humanity is even worth saving. A universe without a conciseness to appreciate it is quite pointless, and might as well not exist.
- patronagezero 12y ago
  > A universe without a conciseness to appreciate it is quite pointless, and might as well not exist. I value life in all forms too much to agree with that statement. I value humans the most, but only if they can find a way to value themselves and their surroundings in a harmonious way.
  - ars 12y ago
    Exactly my point. YOU value all life. But that life doesn't value itself. It requires conciseness to do so.
    - ZenoArrow 12y ago
      Do you mean consciousness? Do you see consciousness as separate from life? Would you agree that value requires more than just consciousness?
      - ars 12y ago
        > Do you mean consciousness? Yes, I do, thanks. A little embarrassed I got it wrong twice. > Do you see consciousness as separate from life? Yes. And not only that (theoretically) you can have consciousness without life. They are separate things. One is about growing and reproducing, that other is about thinking. > Would you agree that value requires more than just consciousness? I don't understand what you mean, so I can not disagree or agree. Do you mean the capacity to value something, or that the thing has value? Or something else?
        ZenoArrow 12y ago
        > Yes, I do, thanks. A little embarrassed I got it wrong twice. No problem, I understood what you meant. > Yes. And not only that (theoretically) you can have consciousness without life. They are separate things. One is about growing and reproducing, that other is about thinking. Okay. Where does consciousness live? > I don't understand what you mean, so I can not disagree or agree. Do you mean the capacity to value something, or that the thing has value? Or something else? What I am saying is that consciousness by itself does not lead to judgement, and that it is possible to be conscious of something without assigning a value to it. Would you agree?
    - patronagezero 12y ago
      ... I'm not going to touch that, but perhaps you should spend a bit more time reflecting on that thought before you open yourself up to conversation on the issue.

worldsayshi 12y ago

Soo... If we are unable to solve our problems we are worth saving but if we are not able we are not worth it? So it is up to us then, as always.

patronagezero 12y ago
On an individual level, yes. However, if we require some central authority to demand at the point of a gun (abstractly) for us to clean up our act, then I think we're better off facing our own obsolescence.

ars 12y ago

Even the worst climate change will not hurt humans all that much. It will cause all sorts of changes I'm sure, but globally both humans and animals will be just fine. There will be different animals in different places, some will die, but as a whole all will be just fine. > I'm more concerned with the question of if humanity is even worth saving. A universe without a conciseness to appreciate it is quite pointless, and might as well not exist.

patronagezero 12y ago
> A universe without a conciseness to appreciate it is quite pointless, and might as well not exist. I value life in all forms too much to agree with that statement. I value humans the most, but only if they can find a way to value themselves and their surroundings in a harmonious way.
- ars 12y ago
  Exactly my point. YOU value all life. But that life doesn't value itself. It requires conciseness to do so.
  - ZenoArrow 12y ago
    Do you mean consciousness? Do you see consciousness as separate from life? Would you agree that value requires more than just consciousness?
    - ars 12y ago
      > Do you mean consciousness? Yes, I do, thanks. A little embarrassed I got it wrong twice. > Do you see consciousness as separate from life? Yes. And not only that (theoretically) you can have consciousness without life. They are separate things. One is about growing and reproducing, that other is about thinking. > Would you agree that value requires more than just consciousness? I don't understand what you mean, so I can not disagree or agree. Do you mean the capacity to value something, or that the thing has value? Or something else?
      - ZenoArrow 12y ago
        > Yes, I do, thanks. A little embarrassed I got it wrong twice. No problem, I understood what you meant. > Yes. And not only that (theoretically) you can have consciousness without life. They are separate things. One is about growing and reproducing, that other is about thinking. Okay. Where does consciousness live? > I don't understand what you mean, so I can not disagree or agree. Do you mean the capacity to value something, or that the thing has value? Or something else? What I am saying is that consciousness by itself does not lead to judgement, and that it is possible to be conscious of something without assigning a value to it. Would you agree?
  - patronagezero 12y ago
    ... I'm not going to touch that, but perhaps you should spend a bit more time reflecting on that thought before you open yourself up to conversation on the issue.