6 ms·

Peter Thiel: I'm on human growth hormone [video]

63 points by foobarqux 12y ago

exratione 12y ago
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2007/january17/med-hormone-011707.html http://news.stanford.edu/news/2007/january17/med-hormone-011... "There is certainly no data out there to suggest that giving growth hormone to an otherwise healthy person will make him or her live longer. We did find, however, that there was substantial potential for adverse side effects." http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fgene.2012.00288/full http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fgene.2012.00... "In laboratory mice, mutations with the greatest, most consistent, and best documented positive impact on lifespan are those that disrupt growth hormone (GH) release or actions."
- ixtli 12y ago
  Thank you for posting some sanity in here. There's simply no evidence to suggest that any of this is reasonable and really seems like a weird sort of confirmation bias. That is, he has enough money to surround himself with a certain type of person, and that type of person tells him a certain type of thing that is assumed to be "privileged" or "cutting edge" in some way and thus circumvents the requirement of peer review or consensus a critical person would normally require before eating a bunch of pills. Tl;dr: There's no such thing as "ahead" of consensus.
zacharynewton 12y ago
"I'm hopeful that we'll get cancer cured in the next decade" Not to say that I'm pro-cancer, but I feel like this is a little bit unreasonable. Cancer is a very complicated problem, and medical research takes a long time. Personally I think it sounds like Thiel is just trying to get swole.
- jksmith 12y ago
  Haha no doubt. After yet another ortho surgery due to meathead stupidery, I was doing PT with "Big Sexy" Kevin Nash the tv wrestler. On GH, he said "It's the fountain of youth, baby."
- reallythiel 12y ago
  I was just about to comment saying that if he really wants that done then he might want to start putting more of his money where his mouth is (even more so than he may be doing now) because that is a bit of a stretch (although I appreciate the optimistic attitude).
- zorpner 12y ago
  I wish I could find where I first heard this quote (I think it may have been here on HN), but it was something like "Asking a scientist when we'll find a cure for cancer is like asking a mathematician when we'll find a solution for equations." I know he was speaking a bit off the cuff, but the idea of a "cure for cancer" misunderstands the problem domain so fundamentally as to be incoherent.
  - Steko 12y ago
    We're making fairly rapid advances on treating different cancers with the fairly blunt methods available today. Down the road nanomachines would seem to offer a fairly straightforward solution to most cancers. Obviously cells don't live forever but am I missing something that makes cancerous cells resistant to increasingly miniaturized tools?
    - roadnottaken 12y ago
      Yes, you're missing a lot. Your response is basically science fiction. Take a look at these statistics [1] showing cancer mortality rates over the last few decades and you'll see that we are not, in fact, making rapid advances on treating cancer. Far from it. And I don't even know how to respond to your nanomachines comment. I'm a biochemist who's studied cancer for years, and I can't even begin to imagine how a nanomachine could be of value for treating cancer. [1] http://www.cancer.gov/statistics/find http://www.cancer.gov/statistics/find
      - toomuchtodo 12y ago
        > I'm a biochemist who's studied cancer for years, and I can't even begin to imagine how a nanomachine could be of value for treating cancer. Nanomachinery would possibly be able to identify and remove cancerous cells from the body more intelligently then the body's immune system (similar to how evolution has brought us far enough to where we can engineer biology faster than evolution could). Problems are either software based, hardware based, or both. This would be both.
- jfb 12y ago
  More to the point, there isn't a single "cancer" to be cured.
- nostromo 12y ago
  > Thiel is just trying to get swole. I think you've fallen for anti-drug propaganda. Many people take it to maintain health into old age -- not to become giant meatheads.
- vijayboyapati 12y ago
  There are already very promising treatments for certain types of cancer like leukemia: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/health/leukemia-patients-cell-therapy-childrens-hospital.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/health/leukemia-patients-c... A number of companies are working on commercializing these treatments today. I'm particularly excited that these treatments seem to be quite effective in putting childhood leukemia into near complete remission. The future looks bright for the human battle against cancer.
salimmadjd 12y ago
Actually there is a natural way to hack your body and increase your HGH by about 2000% [1] via fasting. One theory is that when you fast, your body activates the HGH to help burn fat at faster rate. I fast between 24-48 hours (didn't do it last month due to being on the road most of the time) and for the time I did, I could see gaining muscle mass in a short time (in about of month) in conjunction with doing weights. [1] http://anabolicmen.com/increase-hgh-in-24-hours/ http://anabolicmen.com/increase-hgh-in-24-hours/ (there is a link to NIH study)
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  How do you get past the brain fog during that period of time? My understanding is that your brain requires glucose, and that your liver will convert fat to glucose if absolutely necessary (such as when you're in ketosis), hence the "keto flu" transition phase.
  - kyllo 12y ago
    Your liver doesn't convert fat to glucose, it converts it to ketone bodies (such as acetone) which the body can also use for energy instead of glucose.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      Whoops! You're right. I had thought I read somewhere the brain requires another organ to convert ketone bodies to glucose, but it appears its the liver itself at cannot use ketone bodies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies#Uses_in_the_heart.2C_brain_and_muscle_.28but_not_the_liver.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies#Uses_in_the_heart...
      - kyllo 12y ago
        Yeah, the liver has a separate metabolic pathway for converting non-carbohydrate organic compounds into glucose at a steady rate to regulate blood sugar and provide energy to the brain, it's called gluconeogenesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis
nether 12y ago
Where can I get it?
dharbin 12y ago
Is Peter Thiel really gwern in disguise?
- api 12y ago
  The loa known as "gwern" is the result of Peter's first attempt to upload his consciousness to the matrix. It will play you a mighty dub.
- Florin_Andrei 12y ago
  The vibes I get from his direction are more Ozymandias-like.
brador 12y ago
Now this is something that needs disruption. Why can't I get a cheap hgh pill?
- shiftpgdn 12y ago
  http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetmarkets http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetmarkets
- api 12y ago
  Before you spend any money, do some research. Unless I am way off, I was under the impression that HGH is not absorbed enough from the gut to be useful via that route of administration. Unfortunately there's a lot of anti-aging and performance-enhancing quackery out there.
pmalynin 12y ago
A bit click-baity and not that HN worthy tbh.
fasteo 12y ago
This reminds me to David Asprey: my coffee will give you unlimited energy ... Ohh by the way, I am on modafinil and HRT, but it's the coffee that is working the magic here. It is very basic not to eat sugar .... Ohh by the way, I am taking some HGH pills every day
- metanoia 12y ago
  Don't knock it till you try it - the coffee has worked wonders for me. Coffee+Butter+Coconut Oil = code :)
  - lukifer 12y ago
    I'm trying a bulletproof experiment after New Year's. Care to share your formula/method? The one time I tried Kerrygold in coffee, I didn't like the taste.
    - trhway 12y ago
      >The one time I tried Kerrygold in coffee, I didn't like the taste. man! Kerrygold goes on the bagel and gets mixed with coffee inside your mouth :) If you really want butter into your drink, it is done with tea (green) and salt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter_tea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter_tea
    - metanoia 12y ago
      Ingredients: 1tbsp organic extra virgin coconut oil 2tbsp Strauss Family* organic grass fed butter (unsalted) 16oz Sightglass* coffee (from 4tbsp grounds) *both brands local to the bay area. blend! drink! code! If you don't like the heavy butter taste adjust the coconut oil quantity up a little, or maybe brew the coffee a little stronger.
      - lukifer 12y ago
        Thanks!
  - fasteo 12y ago
revelation 12y ago
So am I, I just had some milk.
jboggan 12y ago
Having recently read the Akallabeth [0] this upsets me somewhat. 0 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akallab%C3%AAth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akallab%C3%AAth
narrator 12y ago
Well if I was going to take anything that could possibly extend my life then I'd take Selegiline[1]. It has a few reported side effect like reversible transvestic fetishism[2], but, if I were a billionaire, I'm sure I could handle it ;). 1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7997074 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7997074 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12151912 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12151912
praptak 12y ago
Wait, what - a pill? Does HGH really absorb from the guts? I thought the usual way to administer HGH is a subcutaneous injection.
- EC1 12y ago
  You are correct. Orals are not as effective as injected and most orals are snake oil.
trhway 12y ago
his ego is definitely on growth hormone :) Amazing times are coming when billionaires will be able to defeat aging and ultimately death. And with time such options will trickle down to regular people.
- api 12y ago
  I dunno. He seems pretty modest for a billion-dollar-club VC.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
k__ 12y ago
Lol, shouldn't he look more swole?
FD3SA 12y ago
I enjoy Thiel's incredible optimism, but he does have a tendency to be a little too devout to a fixed set of controversial ideologies [1]. Jeff Bezos famously said that smart people often change their minds [2]. I would encourage Thiel to challenge many of his deeply held beliefs about the history and nature of scientific and technological progress, and empirically compare our current system with that of the past. Especially if he wants to see cancer cured (!!!!) in the next decade (!!!!). Thiel and his colleagues have a unique opportunity to set mankind back on our path of scientific and technological discovery. But in order to do this, we have to thoroughly understand the environment and factors which nurture scientific progress. With NIH and NSF funding in freefall, and corporations cutting R&D spending across the board, I would argue we are moving in precisely the wrong direction. Crowdfunding won't cure Cancer, and neither will startups. These are very hard problems, that take a very long time to solve. Round up some VCs and fund a dozen Janelia Farms for the next 20 years. Only then can we talk about human longevity as a long term goal. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8337837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8337837 2. https://signalvnoise.com/posts/3289-some-advice-from-jeff-bezos https://signalvnoise.com/posts/3289-some-advice-from-jeff-be...
beefman 12y ago
This is after a cut, and it sounds like he thought he was speaking off the record. They're speaking softly, there are sounds from the production crew or something, etc.
uslic001 12y ago
Not the brightest move. Cancer will not be cured in 10 years.

63 points by foobarqux 12y ago

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2007/january17/med-hormone-011707.html http://news.stanford.edu/news/2007/january17/med-hormone-011... "There is certainly no data out there to suggest that giving growth hormone to an otherwise healthy person will make him or her live longer. We did find, however, that there was substantial potential for adverse side effects." http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fgene.2012.00288/full http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fgene.2012.00... "In laboratory mice, mutations with the greatest, most consistent, and best documented positive impact on lifespan are those that disrupt growth hormone (GH) release or actions."

ixtli 12y ago
Thank you for posting some sanity in here. There's simply no evidence to suggest that any of this is reasonable and really seems like a weird sort of confirmation bias. That is, he has enough money to surround himself with a certain type of person, and that type of person tells him a certain type of thing that is assumed to be "privileged" or "cutting edge" in some way and thus circumvents the requirement of peer review or consensus a critical person would normally require before eating a bunch of pills. Tl;dr: There's no such thing as "ahead" of consensus.

zacharynewton 12y ago

"I'm hopeful that we'll get cancer cured in the next decade" Not to say that I'm pro-cancer, but I feel like this is a little bit unreasonable. Cancer is a very complicated problem, and medical research takes a long time. Personally I think it sounds like Thiel is just trying to get swole.

jksmith 12y ago
Haha no doubt. After yet another ortho surgery due to meathead stupidery, I was doing PT with "Big Sexy" Kevin Nash the tv wrestler. On GH, he said "It's the fountain of youth, baby."
reallythiel 12y ago
I was just about to comment saying that if he really wants that done then he might want to start putting more of his money where his mouth is (even more so than he may be doing now) because that is a bit of a stretch (although I appreciate the optimistic attitude).
zorpner 12y ago
I wish I could find where I first heard this quote (I think it may have been here on HN), but it was something like "Asking a scientist when we'll find a cure for cancer is like asking a mathematician when we'll find a solution for equations." I know he was speaking a bit off the cuff, but the idea of a "cure for cancer" misunderstands the problem domain so fundamentally as to be incoherent.
- Steko 12y ago
  We're making fairly rapid advances on treating different cancers with the fairly blunt methods available today. Down the road nanomachines would seem to offer a fairly straightforward solution to most cancers. Obviously cells don't live forever but am I missing something that makes cancerous cells resistant to increasingly miniaturized tools?
  - roadnottaken 12y ago
    Yes, you're missing a lot. Your response is basically science fiction. Take a look at these statistics [1] showing cancer mortality rates over the last few decades and you'll see that we are not, in fact, making rapid advances on treating cancer. Far from it. And I don't even know how to respond to your nanomachines comment. I'm a biochemist who's studied cancer for years, and I can't even begin to imagine how a nanomachine could be of value for treating cancer. [1] http://www.cancer.gov/statistics/find http://www.cancer.gov/statistics/find
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      > I'm a biochemist who's studied cancer for years, and I can't even begin to imagine how a nanomachine could be of value for treating cancer. Nanomachinery would possibly be able to identify and remove cancerous cells from the body more intelligently then the body's immune system (similar to how evolution has brought us far enough to where we can engineer biology faster than evolution could). Problems are either software based, hardware based, or both. This would be both.
jfb 12y ago
More to the point, there isn't a single "cancer" to be cured.
nostromo 12y ago
> Thiel is just trying to get swole. I think you've fallen for anti-drug propaganda. Many people take it to maintain health into old age -- not to become giant meatheads.
vijayboyapati 12y ago
There are already very promising treatments for certain types of cancer like leukemia: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/health/leukemia-patients-cell-therapy-childrens-hospital.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/health/leukemia-patients-c... A number of companies are working on commercializing these treatments today. I'm particularly excited that these treatments seem to be quite effective in putting childhood leukemia into near complete remission. The future looks bright for the human battle against cancer.

salimmadjd 12y ago

Actually there is a natural way to hack your body and increase your HGH by about 2000% [1] via fasting. One theory is that when you fast, your body activates the HGH to help burn fat at faster rate. I fast between 24-48 hours (didn't do it last month due to being on the road most of the time) and for the time I did, I could see gaining muscle mass in a short time (in about of month) in conjunction with doing weights. [1] http://anabolicmen.com/increase-hgh-in-24-hours/ http://anabolicmen.com/increase-hgh-in-24-hours/ (there is a link to NIH study)

toomuchtodo 12y ago
How do you get past the brain fog during that period of time? My understanding is that your brain requires glucose, and that your liver will convert fat to glucose if absolutely necessary (such as when you're in ketosis), hence the "keto flu" transition phase.
- kyllo 12y ago
  Your liver doesn't convert fat to glucose, it converts it to ketone bodies (such as acetone) which the body can also use for energy instead of glucose.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Whoops! You're right. I had thought I read somewhere the brain requires another organ to convert ketone bodies to glucose, but it appears its the liver itself at cannot use ketone bodies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies#Uses_in_the_heart.2C_brain_and_muscle_.28but_not_the_liver.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies#Uses_in_the_heart...
    - kyllo 12y ago
      Yeah, the liver has a separate metabolic pathway for converting non-carbohydrate organic compounds into glucose at a steady rate to regulate blood sugar and provide energy to the brain, it's called gluconeogenesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis

nether 12y ago

Where can I get it?

dharbin 12y ago

Is Peter Thiel really gwern in disguise?

api 12y ago
The loa known as "gwern" is the result of Peter's first attempt to upload his consciousness to the matrix. It will play you a mighty dub.
Florin_Andrei 12y ago
The vibes I get from his direction are more Ozymandias-like.

brador 12y ago

Now this is something that needs disruption. Why can't I get a cheap hgh pill?

shiftpgdn 12y ago
http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetmarkets http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetmarkets
api 12y ago
Before you spend any money, do some research. Unless I am way off, I was under the impression that HGH is not absorbed enough from the gut to be useful via that route of administration. Unfortunately there's a lot of anti-aging and performance-enhancing quackery out there.

pmalynin 12y ago

A bit click-baity and not that HN worthy tbh.

fasteo 12y ago

This reminds me to David Asprey: my coffee will give you unlimited energy ... Ohh by the way, I am on modafinil and HRT, but it's the coffee that is working the magic here. It is very basic not to eat sugar .... Ohh by the way, I am taking some HGH pills every day

metanoia 12y ago
Don't knock it till you try it - the coffee has worked wonders for me. Coffee+Butter+Coconut Oil = code :)
- lukifer 12y ago
  I'm trying a bulletproof experiment after New Year's. Care to share your formula/method? The one time I tried Kerrygold in coffee, I didn't like the taste.
  - trhway 12y ago
    >The one time I tried Kerrygold in coffee, I didn't like the taste. man! Kerrygold goes on the bagel and gets mixed with coffee inside your mouth :) If you really want butter into your drink, it is done with tea (green) and salt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter_tea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter_tea
  - metanoia 12y ago
    Ingredients: 1tbsp organic extra virgin coconut oil 2tbsp Strauss Family* organic grass fed butter (unsalted) 16oz Sightglass* coffee (from 4tbsp grounds) *both brands local to the bay area. blend! drink! code! If you don't like the heavy butter taste adjust the coconut oil quantity up a little, or maybe brew the coffee a little stronger.
    - lukifer 12y ago
      Thanks!
- fasteo 12y ago

revelation 12y ago

So am I, I just had some milk.

jboggan 12y ago

Having recently read the Akallabeth [0] this upsets me somewhat. 0 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akallab%C3%AAth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akallab%C3%AAth

narrator 12y ago

Well if I was going to take anything that could possibly extend my life then I'd take Selegiline[1]. It has a few reported side effect like reversible transvestic fetishism[2], but, if I were a billionaire, I'm sure I could handle it ;). 1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7997074 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7997074 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12151912 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12151912

praptak 12y ago

Wait, what - a pill? Does HGH really absorb from the guts? I thought the usual way to administer HGH is a subcutaneous injection.

EC1 12y ago
You are correct. Orals are not as effective as injected and most orals are snake oil.

trhway 12y ago

his ego is definitely on growth hormone :) Amazing times are coming when billionaires will be able to defeat aging and ultimately death. And with time such options will trickle down to regular people.

api 12y ago
I dunno. He seems pretty modest for a billion-dollar-club VC.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

k__ 12y ago

Lol, shouldn't he look more swole?

FD3SA 12y ago

I enjoy Thiel's incredible optimism, but he does have a tendency to be a little too devout to a fixed set of controversial ideologies [1]. Jeff Bezos famously said that smart people often change their minds [2]. I would encourage Thiel to challenge many of his deeply held beliefs about the history and nature of scientific and technological progress, and empirically compare our current system with that of the past. Especially if he wants to see cancer cured (!!!!) in the next decade (!!!!). Thiel and his colleagues have a unique opportunity to set mankind back on our path of scientific and technological discovery. But in order to do this, we have to thoroughly understand the environment and factors which nurture scientific progress. With NIH and NSF funding in freefall, and corporations cutting R&D spending across the board, I would argue we are moving in precisely the wrong direction. Crowdfunding won't cure Cancer, and neither will startups. These are very hard problems, that take a very long time to solve. Round up some VCs and fund a dozen Janelia Farms for the next 20 years. Only then can we talk about human longevity as a long term goal. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8337837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8337837 2. https://signalvnoise.com/posts/3289-some-advice-from-jeff-bezos https://signalvnoise.com/posts/3289-some-advice-from-jeff-be...

beefman 12y ago

This is after a cut, and it sounds like he thought he was speaking off the record. They're speaking softly, there are sounds from the production crew or something, etc.

uslic001 12y ago

Not the brightest move. Cancer will not be cured in 10 years.