10 ms·

Uber vs. Lyft: From The Driver’s Seat

116 points by gregmuender 12y ago

georgeecollins 12y ago
The thing that seems crazy to me is that drivers are worried that they will lose their jobs to driverless cars. While I am sure this will be possible someday, even if it were 100% technically possible today (and it isn't) it would take a few years for all the driverless cars to be purchased. I am sure someday it will happen. But if I were driving a car for a living I think I would be more worried about a car accident, illness, a recession..
- ameister14 12y ago
  If you plan to have a career driving cars, to do this for the next thirty years, it's understandable that you would fear driverless cars.
- dougabug 12y ago
  When the CEO of the company you work for tells the world he can't wait to replace you and your fellow workers, it seems reasonable to worry a little bit. At a minimum, it's a bit disconcerting to be equated in value to a (not so distant future) machine.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  I'm sure the pay-per-ride services will all buy driverless cars the instant it's technically feasible. In fact, their whole technology seems aimed at managing such a fleet in the long run.
LewisJEllis 12y ago
Great copy from Uber: "We use driver ratings to know who are great partners are"
- gregd 12y ago
  Are you being facetious?
  - v64 12y ago
    I believe so. The intent of the comment is to highlight their lack of proofreading.
- jsprogrammer 12y ago
  I also enjoyed how they admitted that they mislead drivers and riders by not displaying a rating lower than 4.55 even though the email said the driver's rating was less than 4.55.
  - etjossem 12y ago
    I thought I was the only one who caught that. Very sketchy.
joshstrange 12y ago
I have used Lyft probably close to 25 times (Is there a place I can see my ride history other than CC statements?) and only used Uber once so I won't try to compare the two but I will say this about Lyft: Lyft was the first ride-share program to come to my city and I was a little disappointed as I had spent over a year hearing about how awesome Uber was. This feeling quickly disappeared after my first Lyft ride. It was so completely different than any taxi ride I had ever taken that I was taken aback. The whole process was super smooth and it really does feel like getting a ride from a friend. One of the parts I hated most about taxi's was paying at the end because they don't take CC's where I live (or if they do they hide the CC terminals) and so I always had to pay in cash and would often over tip (by rounding up to the nearest bill I had) just to get the ride over with faster. With Lyft I find myself wanting the ride to keep going and I genuinely enjoy talking to every Lyft driver I have ever had. I don't think I have ever had a conversation with a taxi driver that wasn't forced or awkward. I get that a lot of people don't drive for Lyft as their main job (as do taxi drivers) and so it may be easier for them to be talkative and upbeat but it really does make all the difference. I gush about how much I love Lyft to all my friends and now they all use it and similarly love it. Everytime Lyft comes up in conversation everyone will talk about how great it is and how they love to use it. Uber is now in my city but as I said I only used it once and I won't even begin to try to compare the experiences because the data set is way too small (hell, 25 rides with Lyft is probably too small as well). But from what I have seen from the outside looking in it's much more "professional" (I don't say that as a good thing) and buttoned up. I love how laid back Lyft drivers are and after reading this blog post it appears that Lyft as a company is this way as well. I wish Lyft the best of luck and will always try to get a Lyft driver before I fall back on Uber.
- binaryqueen 12y ago
  I find this really interesting. I prefer Uber at-least in LA. I have used both Uber and Lyft pretty consistently in the last year. My problem with lyft has been my extreme experiences that come at the expense of "being a friend". I have had rides from LAX with drivers asking me very private information like my religious beliefs. There was another guy who was talking about his relationships and hinting at his sex life. It was bizarre and funny in the way he said that he does not like to talk but lyft emphasizes on this social experience (and in my head I was like, dude please shut up.. i wont mind) I am sure these incidents can happen with Uber but so far I have never been creeped out even if I thought the drivers were rude or even reckless etc. With lyft, I tend to sit on the passengers side; which kind of increases my sense of dread when I get weird drivers. I hear this quite frequently on how awesome it is that Lyft emphasizes this social experience. But in my personal experience it has a (slight?) downside.
dnautics 12y ago
As a (full-time) driver for both: I am biased towards lyft - I make more money on their platform weekly, they take less commission, I have a good friend who works for lyft. There is certainly a difference between the two, but the two corporate cultures are converging. The cutthroat competition, and possibly growth demands put on them by VC has forced lyft to 'play catch up' against uber in many ways. It shows up in superficial ways: For example, especially hilarious was the week that uber's and lyft's driver-side UI for accepting and completing rides swapped (uber went from tap and confirm to swipe in/swipe out; lyft went the opposite way). Lyft communication with drivers, while always upbeat, is often very very slow and occasionally they are borderline negligent in dealing with pay issues. And as is always the case, it's very difficult to measure the supply and demand, and so in my market at least there is a gross oversupply of drivers; as the drivers tail off and stop driving because they aren't making money, lyft finds itself needing to go on a hiring drive before major events (halloween, etc)... And then everyone shows up on the road for the few weeks after that and takehome goes sharply down. I have doubts lyft will ever get caught in a major dustup like Uber did with its executive-level idiocy, but it's not a perfect company, and there are certainly more points of similarity (in bad ways) between the two companies than this review points out. Still having said that, I do like contracting with lyft. It's (and to a less extent uber) given me runway for setting up my nonprofit and I'll be launching a for-profit after I move up to the bay area next week.... While we're seeking capital for it, I'll be lyfting around, if you use lyft you might see me.
delecti 12y ago
This seems to objectively match my customer experience as well, though my subjective experience is different. I wish Uber didn't feel like such a scummy bunch of people, because I'm not a particularly friendly/talkative/social person. I like that when I got into an Uber it seemed expected to not really interact with my driver. It's not that I'm "above them" or anything, though I certainly can see how their chauffeur atmosphere would appeal to those who appreciate that, it's just that they're a stranger, and I find that intimidating. I'll probably keep using Lyft though, because all else being equal I'd rather be uncomfortable with my ride than uncomfortable with my decisions as a consumer.
- dnautics 12y ago
  seriously, when you get in, politely and friendly-ly tell your driver that you prefer a quiet ride, and thank them when you get out. They'll understand.
- username223 12y ago
  They have to pretend that you're car-pooling, rather than just hiring a taxi. I don't like lying to people, so I prefer to tell them that I'm paying them to drive me from A to B.
pgopalan 12y ago
This post references its original parent in Pando Daily. I'm surprised there is no disclosure in Pando Daily that investors in Pando Daily such as A16Z, Founder's Fund, Peter Thiel are also investors in Lyft. I think it is only fair that every post in Pando Daily should carry that disclosure so that readers are fully aware of the connection. Why isn't this not called out? I just read a post in Medium which is rightfully questioning the motivation of these media posts absent the disclosure. https://medium.com/@PersonofAwesome/buying-news-coverage-and-crying-misogyny-in-the-ride-sharing-industry-dedeec300ae9 https://medium.com/@PersonofAwesome/buying-news-coverage-and... We need more transparency from the media outlets.
- wizawuza 12y ago
  Funny, I thought it was actually a law that they MUST disclose such things. Thanks for the heads up.
- pbreit 12y ago
  Pando typically discloses that it shares investors with Uber and Lyft. This one might have slipped through since it's a guest author.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- closetnerd 12y ago
  Wow, thats impressive.
- hanief 12y ago
  While I agree on the need of disclosure, actually Pando Daily share more investors with Uber than with Lyft. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2014/11/20/uber-investor-connections-lyft-pandodaily-buzzfeed/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2014/11/20/uber-investor...
- malandrew 12y ago
  pmarca has a close relationship with several journalists/editors: https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/432909760984145920 https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/432909760984145920 The truth is that VCs don't invest in the media outlets because they are going to be the next Facebook or Google. No, instead they invest in the media outlets because it helps them promote their investments. There simply is no reason to invest in media outlets for the direct ROI upon exit. They will never be worth enough.
filmgirlcw 12y ago
I understand why Uber's culture might be less popular with drivers and I certainly wish they seemed less smarmy - to echo another commenter - but this description totally underscores why I prefer Uber to Lyft as a customer. Nothing against Lyft per se (though getting hit on by drivers twice, including a text after the fact, my last trip to SF didn't help), but the "we're all friends" culture sounds ok on paper but when I'm paying for car service, maybe I'm just a bitch, but I don't want to be your friend. I get there is a difference between liveries and ride sharing in some cities, I do. But I live in New York. I don't want to sit in the front. I don't want to bump your fist. I don't always want to talk (though I've maintained a diary of sorts of many of my favorite Uber driver conversations). I'k primarily using the app because I need a car and couldn't get a taxi. Having a warm and fuzzy relationship is fine, but most of the time I'm trying to do work on my laptop or iPad. As a result, I'm more incline to use the service that treats it as a business than a lark. But I do appreciate that Lyft drivers feel more appreciated there. That's important. I hope Lyft continues to treat it's drivers well.
- username223 12y ago
  So you totes want a professional driver? Then pay for one, MovieFemaleCW. Lyft sounds creepy, but if you want a cab, don't try to do it on the cheap by paying someone to "carpool."
  - krschultz 12y ago
    Example #6,231 of how a woman on HN randomly gets harassed for absolutely nothing other than the fact that their username indicates they are female.
    - username223 12y ago
      > Example #6,231 of how a woman on HN randomly gets harassed for absolutely nothing other than the fact that their username indicates they are female. Or example #?,??? (insert random number) of gender nonsense on HN. I'm not trying to "harass a woman." I don't care about sex, gender, or what-not. Just pay your cabbies fairly, and don't lie about the fact that they're cabbies.
hisabness 12y ago
i was banned from Llyft and never given a reason except that "we take safety seriously". i remember always being an upstanding rider, but may have been a bit light in the tip category. tried to contact the company to see why i was banned but have been stonewalled. hopefully they don't start banning poor people, or some other group just because. wish they would provided more transparency and have contacted the utilities commission in my state to share my concern.
- MacsHeadroom 12y ago
  You're not supposed to tip your driver. Sounds like you made somebody feel uncomfortable.
  - ladybro 12y ago
    Lyft offers the option to tip, if I'm not mistaken.
    - mmastrac 12y ago
      Correct: you are offered the option to tip post-ride.
    - Major_Grooves 12y ago
      I would presume, if they were smart, that they would not show how much tip you make per trip, rather per week, so you can't get annoyed at individuals. Doesn't work of course if they only give one ride, but do drivers ever do that?
  - hisabness 12y ago
    this is my point. i hope these guys dont gain too much market share or put all other taxis out of business or i wont be able to get around town.
habosa 12y ago
I have experienced exactly this in SF. It may just be that I am overly friendly with strangers, but I opt for Lyft every time the prices are close (I'll take 1.5x Lyft over 1.25x UberX every time). The drivers are nicer and just generally more considerate. I've had drivers show me cool music and tell me great stories. Then again I have friends who hate Lyft for the same reasons. They want to sit quietly in a black car and just get there. To each his/her own.
fibbery 12y ago
This article was OK, but the inclusion of affiliate links in the middle of the body copy made me feel like I was reading an ad in disguise...
- inspiredworlds 12y ago
  Yeah it felt like an ad. I understand he wants to have some call to action in there. But might have overdone it.
patcon 12y ago
Reading this thread almost leaves me the impression there's room for a rideshare service that matches riders and drivers based on Myers-Briggs type...
alokedesai 12y ago
Great article, but the author seems way too desperate to get Uber and Lyft credit
somberi 12y ago
At least here in NYC, I see the same drivers driving for both UberX and Lyft. The only difference is that they have to attach the pink mustache in the front if they are responding to a Lyft order. In their mind, and mine, once I am in the cab, the company culture does not come afore as much as the human in the car. If he is talkative, he is - Uber or Lyft. If I am talkative, I am - wether Uber or Lyft. I have used both the services and I have had great conversations. I find Uber and Lyft as great ways of being introduced to new cities. The drivers give me a shade of the city, that I might otherwise miss, just staying in business hotels and talking to the hotel staff, and business partners. I think of them as my "Lonely Planet" for X city.
cpkpad 12y ago
From my seat in back, the difference is tipping. I hate tipping. Increase fares 15% if you want, but not dealing with tipping was one of the nice things about Uber.
cpkpad 12y ago
I hate dealing with tipping, so I almost always go with uber.

116 points by gregmuender 12y ago

The thing that seems crazy to me is that drivers are worried that they will lose their jobs to driverless cars. While I am sure this will be possible someday, even if it were 100% technically possible today (and it isn't) it would take a few years for all the driverless cars to be purchased. I am sure someday it will happen. But if I were driving a car for a living I think I would be more worried about a car accident, illness, a recession..

ameister14 12y ago
If you plan to have a career driving cars, to do this for the next thirty years, it's understandable that you would fear driverless cars.
dougabug 12y ago
When the CEO of the company you work for tells the world he can't wait to replace you and your fellow workers, it seems reasonable to worry a little bit. At a minimum, it's a bit disconcerting to be equated in value to a (not so distant future) machine.
waterlesscloud 12y ago
I'm sure the pay-per-ride services will all buy driverless cars the instant it's technically feasible. In fact, their whole technology seems aimed at managing such a fleet in the long run.

LewisJEllis 12y ago

Great copy from Uber: "We use driver ratings to know who are great partners are"

gregd 12y ago
Are you being facetious?
- v64 12y ago
  I believe so. The intent of the comment is to highlight their lack of proofreading.
jsprogrammer 12y ago
I also enjoyed how they admitted that they mislead drivers and riders by not displaying a rating lower than 4.55 even though the email said the driver's rating was less than 4.55.
- etjossem 12y ago
  I thought I was the only one who caught that. Very sketchy.

joshstrange 12y ago

I have used Lyft probably close to 25 times (Is there a place I can see my ride history other than CC statements?) and only used Uber once so I won't try to compare the two but I will say this about Lyft: Lyft was the first ride-share program to come to my city and I was a little disappointed as I had spent over a year hearing about how awesome Uber was. This feeling quickly disappeared after my first Lyft ride. It was so completely different than any taxi ride I had ever taken that I was taken aback. The whole process was super smooth and it really does feel like getting a ride from a friend. One of the parts I hated most about taxi's was paying at the end because they don't take CC's where I live (or if they do they hide the CC terminals) and so I always had to pay in cash and would often over tip (by rounding up to the nearest bill I had) just to get the ride over with faster. With Lyft I find myself wanting the ride to keep going and I genuinely enjoy talking to every Lyft driver I have ever had. I don't think I have ever had a conversation with a taxi driver that wasn't forced or awkward. I get that a lot of people don't drive for Lyft as their main job (as do taxi drivers) and so it may be easier for them to be talkative and upbeat but it really does make all the difference. I gush about how much I love Lyft to all my friends and now they all use it and similarly love it. Everytime Lyft comes up in conversation everyone will talk about how great it is and how they love to use it. Uber is now in my city but as I said I only used it once and I won't even begin to try to compare the experiences because the data set is way too small (hell, 25 rides with Lyft is probably too small as well). But from what I have seen from the outside looking in it's much more "professional" (I don't say that as a good thing) and buttoned up. I love how laid back Lyft drivers are and after reading this blog post it appears that Lyft as a company is this way as well. I wish Lyft the best of luck and will always try to get a Lyft driver before I fall back on Uber.

binaryqueen 12y ago
I find this really interesting. I prefer Uber at-least in LA. I have used both Uber and Lyft pretty consistently in the last year. My problem with lyft has been my extreme experiences that come at the expense of "being a friend". I have had rides from LAX with drivers asking me very private information like my religious beliefs. There was another guy who was talking about his relationships and hinting at his sex life. It was bizarre and funny in the way he said that he does not like to talk but lyft emphasizes on this social experience (and in my head I was like, dude please shut up.. i wont mind) I am sure these incidents can happen with Uber but so far I have never been creeped out even if I thought the drivers were rude or even reckless etc. With lyft, I tend to sit on the passengers side; which kind of increases my sense of dread when I get weird drivers. I hear this quite frequently on how awesome it is that Lyft emphasizes this social experience. But in my personal experience it has a (slight?) downside.

dnautics 12y ago

As a (full-time) driver for both: I am biased towards lyft - I make more money on their platform weekly, they take less commission, I have a good friend who works for lyft. There is certainly a difference between the two, but the two corporate cultures are converging. The cutthroat competition, and possibly growth demands put on them by VC has forced lyft to 'play catch up' against uber in many ways. It shows up in superficial ways: For example, especially hilarious was the week that uber's and lyft's driver-side UI for accepting and completing rides swapped (uber went from tap and confirm to swipe in/swipe out; lyft went the opposite way). Lyft communication with drivers, while always upbeat, is often very very slow and occasionally they are borderline negligent in dealing with pay issues. And as is always the case, it's very difficult to measure the supply and demand, and so in my market at least there is a gross oversupply of drivers; as the drivers tail off and stop driving because they aren't making money, lyft finds itself needing to go on a hiring drive before major events (halloween, etc)... And then everyone shows up on the road for the few weeks after that and takehome goes sharply down. I have doubts lyft will ever get caught in a major dustup like Uber did with its executive-level idiocy, but it's not a perfect company, and there are certainly more points of similarity (in bad ways) between the two companies than this review points out. Still having said that, I do like contracting with lyft. It's (and to a less extent uber) given me runway for setting up my nonprofit and I'll be launching a for-profit after I move up to the bay area next week.... While we're seeking capital for it, I'll be lyfting around, if you use lyft you might see me.

delecti 12y ago

This seems to objectively match my customer experience as well, though my subjective experience is different. I wish Uber didn't feel like such a scummy bunch of people, because I'm not a particularly friendly/talkative/social person. I like that when I got into an Uber it seemed expected to not really interact with my driver. It's not that I'm "above them" or anything, though I certainly can see how their chauffeur atmosphere would appeal to those who appreciate that, it's just that they're a stranger, and I find that intimidating. I'll probably keep using Lyft though, because all else being equal I'd rather be uncomfortable with my ride than uncomfortable with my decisions as a consumer.

dnautics 12y ago
seriously, when you get in, politely and friendly-ly tell your driver that you prefer a quiet ride, and thank them when you get out. They'll understand.
username223 12y ago
They have to pretend that you're car-pooling, rather than just hiring a taxi. I don't like lying to people, so I prefer to tell them that I'm paying them to drive me from A to B.

pgopalan 12y ago

This post references its original parent in Pando Daily. I'm surprised there is no disclosure in Pando Daily that investors in Pando Daily such as A16Z, Founder's Fund, Peter Thiel are also investors in Lyft. I think it is only fair that every post in Pando Daily should carry that disclosure so that readers are fully aware of the connection. Why isn't this not called out? I just read a post in Medium which is rightfully questioning the motivation of these media posts absent the disclosure. https://medium.com/@PersonofAwesome/buying-news-coverage-and-crying-misogyny-in-the-ride-sharing-industry-dedeec300ae9 https://medium.com/@PersonofAwesome/buying-news-coverage-and... We need more transparency from the media outlets.

wizawuza 12y ago
Funny, I thought it was actually a law that they MUST disclose such things. Thanks for the heads up.
pbreit 12y ago
Pando typically discloses that it shares investors with Uber and Lyft. This one might have slipped through since it's a guest author.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
closetnerd 12y ago
Wow, thats impressive.
hanief 12y ago
While I agree on the need of disclosure, actually Pando Daily share more investors with Uber than with Lyft. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2014/11/20/uber-investor-connections-lyft-pandodaily-buzzfeed/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2014/11/20/uber-investor...
malandrew 12y ago
pmarca has a close relationship with several journalists/editors: https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/432909760984145920 https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/432909760984145920 The truth is that VCs don't invest in the media outlets because they are going to be the next Facebook or Google. No, instead they invest in the media outlets because it helps them promote their investments. There simply is no reason to invest in media outlets for the direct ROI upon exit. They will never be worth enough.

filmgirlcw 12y ago

I understand why Uber's culture might be less popular with drivers and I certainly wish they seemed less smarmy - to echo another commenter - but this description totally underscores why I prefer Uber to Lyft as a customer. Nothing against Lyft per se (though getting hit on by drivers twice, including a text after the fact, my last trip to SF didn't help), but the "we're all friends" culture sounds ok on paper but when I'm paying for car service, maybe I'm just a bitch, but I don't want to be your friend. I get there is a difference between liveries and ride sharing in some cities, I do. But I live in New York. I don't want to sit in the front. I don't want to bump your fist. I don't always want to talk (though I've maintained a diary of sorts of many of my favorite Uber driver conversations). I'k primarily using the app because I need a car and couldn't get a taxi. Having a warm and fuzzy relationship is fine, but most of the time I'm trying to do work on my laptop or iPad. As a result, I'm more incline to use the service that treats it as a business than a lark. But I do appreciate that Lyft drivers feel more appreciated there. That's important. I hope Lyft continues to treat it's drivers well.

username223 12y ago
So you totes want a professional driver? Then pay for one, MovieFemaleCW. Lyft sounds creepy, but if you want a cab, don't try to do it on the cheap by paying someone to "carpool."
- krschultz 12y ago
  Example #6,231 of how a woman on HN randomly gets harassed for absolutely nothing other than the fact that their username indicates they are female.
  - username223 12y ago
    > Example #6,231 of how a woman on HN randomly gets harassed for absolutely nothing other than the fact that their username indicates they are female. Or example #?,??? (insert random number) of gender nonsense on HN. I'm not trying to "harass a woman." I don't care about sex, gender, or what-not. Just pay your cabbies fairly, and don't lie about the fact that they're cabbies.

hisabness 12y ago

i was banned from Llyft and never given a reason except that "we take safety seriously". i remember always being an upstanding rider, but may have been a bit light in the tip category. tried to contact the company to see why i was banned but have been stonewalled. hopefully they don't start banning poor people, or some other group just because. wish they would provided more transparency and have contacted the utilities commission in my state to share my concern.

MacsHeadroom 12y ago
You're not supposed to tip your driver. Sounds like you made somebody feel uncomfortable.
- ladybro 12y ago
  Lyft offers the option to tip, if I'm not mistaken.
  - mmastrac 12y ago
    Correct: you are offered the option to tip post-ride.
  - Major_Grooves 12y ago
    I would presume, if they were smart, that they would not show how much tip you make per trip, rather per week, so you can't get annoyed at individuals. Doesn't work of course if they only give one ride, but do drivers ever do that?
- hisabness 12y ago
  this is my point. i hope these guys dont gain too much market share or put all other taxis out of business or i wont be able to get around town.

habosa 12y ago

I have experienced exactly this in SF. It may just be that I am overly friendly with strangers, but I opt for Lyft every time the prices are close (I'll take 1.5x Lyft over 1.25x UberX every time). The drivers are nicer and just generally more considerate. I've had drivers show me cool music and tell me great stories. Then again I have friends who hate Lyft for the same reasons. They want to sit quietly in a black car and just get there. To each his/her own.

fibbery 12y ago

This article was OK, but the inclusion of affiliate links in the middle of the body copy made me feel like I was reading an ad in disguise...

inspiredworlds 12y ago
Yeah it felt like an ad. I understand he wants to have some call to action in there. But might have overdone it.

patcon 12y ago

Reading this thread almost leaves me the impression there's room for a rideshare service that matches riders and drivers based on Myers-Briggs type...

alokedesai 12y ago

Great article, but the author seems way too desperate to get Uber and Lyft credit

somberi 12y ago

At least here in NYC, I see the same drivers driving for both UberX and Lyft. The only difference is that they have to attach the pink mustache in the front if they are responding to a Lyft order. In their mind, and mine, once I am in the cab, the company culture does not come afore as much as the human in the car. If he is talkative, he is - Uber or Lyft. If I am talkative, I am - wether Uber or Lyft. I have used both the services and I have had great conversations. I find Uber and Lyft as great ways of being introduced to new cities. The drivers give me a shade of the city, that I might otherwise miss, just staying in business hotels and talking to the hotel staff, and business partners. I think of them as my "Lonely Planet" for X city.

cpkpad 12y ago

From my seat in back, the difference is tipping. I hate tipping. Increase fares 15% if you want, but not dealing with tipping was one of the nice things about Uber.

cpkpad 12y ago

I hate dealing with tipping, so I almost always go with uber.