8 ms·

Has Travel Become Another Exercise in Narcissism?

145 points by benbreen 12y ago

ivraatiems 12y ago
The old man in me screams: It's not that travel has become narcissistic, it's that everything has. Narcissists make everything about them, and there seem to be more narcissists now than ever before (if there aren't more, the existing ones are certainly more prominent). We're all one of the crowd, like the author says. Technology has made it very easy to forget that.
- gordaco 12y ago
  More than that, we have a lot of narcissism-enhancing, or at least narcissism-displaying, tools. In the form of social networks.
  - ivraatiems 12y ago
    Oh, yes, for sure. I just didn't want to bring them up and have my comment be too on the nose ;)
  - Namrog84 12y ago
    As we complain about narcissism enhancing social websites as we are on a social place portraying our own views and opinions. The line is a fuzzy one.
    - ivraatiems 12y ago
      It's true! I keep refreshing the page to see if people are upvoting me (I think that's what we call it on HN?). But some narcissism is healthy; the problem is more when it's allowed to run rampant or become the sole purpose behind some behavior. It's the difference between posting because you have something to say, hoping people might agree, and posting because you need people to agree with you.
      - Filthy_casual 12y ago
        I think spamming refresh happens not because you're narcissist but because you are eager to see if your opinion is well-received by others. That can be unhealthy. It's one thing to get feedback from multiple sources to notice things and behaviors that are harmful or unwanted (like being cocky or people feeling you're argumentative) and another if you're anxious to learn whether or not others will find value in what you said. It's roughly like... The "nice guy syndrome", where a person is engaged with what others expect from him so much that he undermines what he personally wants. In online forum terms this might mean that you're commenting in favor of the popular opinion of the forum and not voicing your own opinion to see whether it has flaws or not. Naturally, this is one of the many reasons why a community becomes an "echo chamber".
    - Dewie 12y ago
      I think I post a lot on places like HN to compensate for a lack of a social life. It's not like I even try to form any connection with people on forums online, so I'm not making friends, but I think there is a connection.
- amelius 12y ago
  True. But while most forms of narcissism, depending on your view, are innocent, the problem with this particular form of narcissism is that it is a burden on the environment.
- amelius 12y ago
  True. But while most forms of narcissism, depending on your view, are relatively innocent, the problem with this particular form of narcissism is that it is an ecological disaster in progress.
- notahacker 12y ago
  People might be becoming more narcissistic, but mostly they're just finding it easier to permanently share the anecdotes they'd otherwise be doling out only to those in their immediate company at any given time. When the author argues that "Instead of taking time to absorb and consider, many people seem more inclined to travel quickly, tick off the ‘don’t miss’ highlights and form broad-brush assumptions based on the bare minimum of immersion" he's miles off. People have been targeting the 'sights' since the notion of overseas travel as a source of pleasure began aeons ago. If anything, the web actually encourages immersion, because the "sights" themselves can be enjoyed from all conceivable angles in the comfort of ones own bedroom. What's changed is that when travellers and tourists do visit the "highlights" - often called that for good reason - they'll inevitably feel the need to share selfies with their entire social network afterwards. The same goes for the photos shared as a permanent record of their night out at the bar down the road in Clapham rather than Tanzania, or the people who actually do go to Eastbourne and feel the need to check-in to show they've been to the actual pier. Or people sharing their pithy observations on the football, or approval of the latest Upworthy video. Actually, the most narcissistic act of all has got to be blogging, because I'm sure there's a time that travel journalists spent their time in between the tough grind of churning out freelance travel articles exploring the world around them rather than eloquently excoriating their usual audience on medium.com to broadcast how much more worldly they are than all the other holidaying proles.
- rhizome 12y ago
  Narcissism may have increased relative to the past, I don't know, but it seems a simpler explanation that travel has become much cheaper as time has gone on, so now there are more people capable of participating and talking about it. Couple that with the development of technological tools able to amplify communications to more people than in the past, and the incidence of travel (among many other topics) becomes more visible. It comes as no surprise that people do things that they see other people doing, which I don't think has changed much as time goes on. So, people travel, they talk about it, more people "hear" it, and more people travel as a result.
  - ivraatiems 12y ago
    That's fair, but it's not just about whether people are doing it. It's about how they present what they are doing.
    - rhizome 12y ago
      "How?" Are you saying that narcissism is a technique?
      - ivraatiems 12y ago
        I'm saying the presentation is a symptom of the purpose. In my opinion, social media are not designed to share ideas or experiences, but rather, as a means to seek approval from others. I think that somebody who Instagrams his trip is more likely to be doing so because he wants others to see what he's doing and judge him on it, rather than so that he can document the trip for himself. But that's only my opinion and not a matter of objective knowledge.
        rhizome 12y ago
        That's pretty misanthropic and betrays a naive concept of narcissism.
- jwmerrill 12y ago
  > The old man in me screams: It's not that travel has become narcissistic, it's that everything has. Old men have always bemoaned the narcissism of young people. It isn't "kids these days," it's just "kids." Maybe it's a cliche at this point to bring this up, but “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” is attributed to Socrates. I've enjoyed the Language Log's "narcissism skepticism" over the years. Maybe someone else will too: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/index.php?s=narcissism http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/index.php?s=narcissism
  - mst 12y ago
    I have a feeling "narcissism" is code for "the younger generation's status signaling mechanisms"
    - contingencies 12y ago
      +1 insightful ;)
- cafard 12y ago
  The old man that I am asks, Are you old enough to remember the days of slides and projectors? If not, a bit of research in popular culture should be able to turn up gags from the comics and the situation comedies about the horrors of the neighbors' slide show minutely cataloging their two week vacation to Yellowstone or Paris or ... Technology has made it possible to bore, amuse, or irritate a global audience rather than a neighborhood one.
deleted 12y ago
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revscat 12y ago
Perhaps. And I have certainly encountered the type of traveller who seemingly tells you stories of their journeys so that they may one-up you on the social scale. I tend to forgive this, though, because underneath it all we are simply simians with shoes, jockeying for social status and sex. I have travelled some in my life. Not extensively, but enough to have a few stories of my own. My guidelines around traveling are: 1) Be humble. Related: be prepared to apologize if you do something unintentionally rude. I had to do this frequently in Asia because me, being American, was not used to taking off my shoes whenever I entered a home or restaurant. I quickly learned, but there were times at the beginning where I forgot. Apologies helped. Exception: Australia. 2) Be reserved. If someone is interested in you or your country they will ask. If not, don't bore them with something they may or may not care about. Exception: Ireland. 3) Do not portray competitiveness. This can easily come across as arrogant and provincial. Exception: Ireland. 4) Be inquisitive. Ask questions about the country you are visiting, and be genuine about it, not judgmental. Exception: North Korea. 5) When you return home, tell your tales to interested friends or coworkers, but be aware that not everyone will care. Exception: Finland.
- busterarm 12y ago
  Would you be willing to expound upon your exceptions?
  - MattBearman 12y ago
    I was about to ask the same, particularly as I'm currently traveling round Europe, and happen to be in Finland right now.
    - kiiski 12y ago
      As someone who lives there, I'm also curious about that. Should number 5 be read as "tell everyone about Finland", or "tell no one about Finland"? Why?
  - ribs 12y ago
    Yeah, I want to hear about the exceptions! -That's- the piece I want to read. Not this broken down travel writer complaining about himself.
deleted 12y ago
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batemanesque 12y ago
damn Millenials, everything is an exercise in narcissism these days
return0 12y ago
Apparently traveling is "something to do" for developed-country-dwellers. What used to be a hobby for the ultrarich of the 19th century is now part of the middle class dream. The bigger issue than narcissism however is the homogeneity of cultures today. There is barely anything to "explore" that is original and not part of some touristy routine (even space will soon turn out a boring destination). There's just an enormous industry built behind it that keeps the train moving.
- saryant 12y ago
  I have to disagree. Sure, if you stick with package tours taking an air conditioned bus from one site to another, that's all you'll get. But there is more than enough to explore that is nothing like developed, Western countries. Yes, there are things like the Banana Pancake trail where it just feels like you can't escape the Lonely Planet bus. But I can't agree that the world can be so distilled into a guidebook that there's nothing left, or that somehow that makes the world homogenous. A tourist can turn the world into Disneyland if they wish, but that's their own damn fault.
- 3rd3 12y ago
  I personally believe that Minecraft-complete worlds can never become boring. People forget, and the complexity allows for unforeseen things. And I also don’t believe in the solution to Fermi Paradox that sufficiently advanced cultures disappear in virtual realities. There is always something special about the physical world where all things can terminate irreversibly.
- deleted 12y ago
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- foobarian 12y ago
  Ultimately it is about the price of energy. We're at a point where the price per Joule of fuel suitable for all kinds of transportation is the lowest it's ever been, affordable to an unprecedented number of folks. I often wonder about a hypothetical civilization that might arise in the future if the current one breaks down due to war or some natural disaster. How will it develop without access to easy oil and ores? Perhaps it will be a more thoughtful and humble civilization, and maybe the limits of its world will not seem so small as they do today.
droopyEyelids 12y ago
When Mark Twain's The Innocents Abroad, published in 1869 contained: The gentle reader will never, never know what a consummate ass he can become until he goes abroad. I speak now, of course, in the supposition that the gentle reader has not been abroad, and therefore is not already a consummate ass. to describe the results of the first-ever pleasure cruise to Europe, I have to assume that pleasure travel was an exercise in narcissism since the very first.
eric_bullington 12y ago
Maybe this is the case in SF and NYC, but in most of the rural, suburban, and small-city United States, there aren't that many people who have traveled or lived outside of Europe or North America.
- Dewie 12y ago
  The writer is based in London and seems to be British. Did the article especially bring up cities like NYC and SF? Or the US? I didn't notice.
  - eric_bullington 12y ago
    I was writing from my experience, which includes SF and NYC more than London (it's been well over a decade since I was in London). His thesis was that travel has become a token of narcissism for Westerners ("idea has seeped into the West’s worldview"). He even describes a Canadian couple who he believes fits this description at the end. My reply is that maybe that's the case in big cities, but that travel off the "beaten path" is relatively rare among most Westerners, at least in the US.
- adestefan 12y ago
  For the vast majority of people in this world they never leave the area where they are born.
jgh 12y ago
Next article: "Who are these kids and why are they on my lawn?" published by Onion Belt Quarterly.
pasbesoin 12y ago
In part, I think today's emphasis on narcissism is just another way of saying that you need to pick your company carefully. If you read that previous sentence carefully, there's a bit of a rhetorical edge to it. Self-absorption is a major component of, if not every human condition, certainly of human society. If you don't like where it's going, striking early is the best response. Don't let it take you there; don't lend it your power. To the extent you can, don't put up with the narcissistic boss. Don't let narcissistic friends and acquaintances dictate the agenda. If they want/choose to break out of that shell and engage in what you are doing and interested in, fine. Maybe they'll learn something. And then, when it's your turn, maybe the lesson will be a bit more gentle and strike a bit sooner, before you get too far down that path, yourself. If anything, today's world seems to be teaching this lesson less and less effectively than perhaps it should.
- eric_bullington 12y ago
  Awesome comment, I've read it multiple times.
walru 12y ago
In my recent tales of online dating I've run into this a lot - so much so I've made a point of mentioning in my OKC profile that while it's great to love traveling, this tells me nothing of your personality, pursuits or goals. The vast majority of individuals highlight their love of travel, or where they're going to go next as if this is defining themselves in some way. While going to Paris and walking the streets for an extended weekend allows you to breathe different air, I fail to see this as something which defines a person. Volunteering your time locally speaks infinitely stronger to one's character than how much time and money they can spend outside of their 25 mile home radius. To that end, I believe it's absolutely necessary for your soul to experience as much as you can.. but there's just as many adventures in your own backyard.
- overloaded 12y ago
  I absolutely agree. It's incredibly important to volunteer your time and make a difference where you life. Out of sheer curiosity, how much time have you spent doing this?
  - walru 12y ago
    Sadly not as much as I'd like to as I've been unemployed for the last six months and am starting with my charity at home. That said, I go to the LA river clean-ups the several times a year they occur, but have recently thought I could do something with teaching game design, or at least showing the processes that go into making games at a local youth center. Sadly, I don't know how to and/or have the time to fully explore that option at the moment.
  - dashboardfront 12y ago
    Why? Hypothetically, would I not have a better impact if I used the same time to take up extra work and instead donated that money? I would imagine the price per hour to hire labor for, say, a food drive could easily be funded multiple times through the price per hour to hire a software developer. Would I not make even more an impact if I chose to donate to an organization that operates in low-income countries? And why would locally matter? Are people in need not people in need regardless of where they're located?
koof 12y ago
This has a lot of truth to it, but rather than encouraging labor as the opposite thing that makes you interesting, who cares about being interesting?
metra 12y ago
It sounds a bit like the author's forgotten what it's like not to travel at all. As an American, I wish my friends would venture outside our borders so that in the future when, inevitably, we will need to invade yet another country perhaps we will reconsider. I'll gladly take the risks of homogenization and narcissism to the risks of an insulated population that accepts the media's perspective of the world rather than their own firsthand (albeit limited) experience.
- ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
  Maybe everyone here makes 6 figure salaries, but overseas travel is ridiculously expensive. I've found that it's mostly the people who can afford it who proclaim the benefits of travel.
  - cwilson 12y ago
    I traveled all around South America for six months and spent maybe 10k total on the trip and I wasn't living frugally at all. I stayed in Airbnb's over hostels, ate good food often, and went on lots of paid excursions. I probably could have spent 5k total if I did the hostel thing, ate on the cheap, and didn't pay for any tourist activities. My point is you can travel on the cheap if you put effort into it, especially in South America. Traveling in Europe? Sure, that's going to be just as expensive if not more than simply living day to day in the states. There are definitely places you can travel without making a six figure salary however.
    - taeric 12y ago
      It isn't just the monetary cost of the trip, but the opportunity cost of not having a paying job. The later is far more expensive than the former.
      - chatmasta 12y ago
        What's the opportunity cost of not having a job when you're in South America anyway? Where would you put your salary?
mooted1 12y ago
What an unbearable read.
daemonk 12y ago
The key quote in the article is when the author describes his own job as a travel writer as "an over-inflated respect for the unique value of my own experience". I think that applies to all experiences these days, not just traveling. Especially with social media serving kind of as an "enabler" of this over-inflated respect.
guard-of-terra 12y ago
You should absolutely travel. That's what life is for. That doesn't grant you un-boring life right away, tho. Not being able to actually interact with natives (that don't sell something to you) is a problem. There are some solutions like couchsurfing, but it's not solved completely.
iterationx 12y ago
Travelling has always been a romantic notion: "The Road to Oxiana", Steamships, "The Grand Tour". Its traditionally not been so accessible. Now that it is, you're more inclined to run into boring normal people (possibly like yourself)
noname123 12y ago
I'd love to hear some of your guys' traveling stories off the beaten paths and what you have learned? Me personally I learned more about my traveling companion honestly than the trip itself, more often than not that the relationship or friendship is doomed to fail and/or in retrospect how self-centered I was haha.
- deleted 12y ago
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colinbartlett 12y ago
Or maybe just rubbing your travel experiences into the faces of everyone via Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. is the narcissistic part? Those that travel and don't tell anyone, but rather just enjoy the experience -- are they narcissists?
- tinco 12y ago
  No, they're selfish for not sharing their experiences of the wonders of the world with those close to them.
  - hobo_mark 12y ago
    /sarcasm
- computerjunkie 12y ago
  A good perspective. I never post where I traveled to (unless a friend somehow tags me and mentions the location we where at) on social networks even if I have photos, souvenirs and merchandise from the trips. I tell people where I've been only if the ask me during a conversation. Going around babbling about "when I was in..." seems brash and boastful. No matter what the author said, traveling opens up your eyes if you truly engage with the local culture.
  - aet 12y ago
    "remember when is the lowest form of conversation" -Tony Soprano
microcolonel 12y ago
Ironically, the article makes for a splendid example of an exercise in narcissism.
richardlblair 12y ago
You can say the same thing for the self proclaimed foodies who instagrams every meal while the others at the table politely wait for them to finish so they may eat together. By the time they get to it the food is fucking cold, and while they attempt to highlight the flavours they don't realize the moment has passed. The experience, in its entirety, has been destroyed. The issue is not traveling, it's that our generation has made being a narcissist cool. We post a small sampling of our experiences on facebook, twitter, medium, and instagram. But, only the positive ones. We could never risk letting the people of the world know that we are average. Social media has devalued our experiences and the validation/interest of our closest friends, and increased the value of validation and interest of total strangers. Your value is the not the sum total of likes, retweets, karma, and <3's on instagram. I would go so far to say that your perceived value by those who matter is inversely correlated to your likes, retweets, karma and <3's /end rant Oh the irony that I unloaded all this here, on social media...
general_failure 12y ago
I am surprised the author makes no mention of the 'click-happy' tourist. This traveller only wants to take pictures and such kinds are _everywhere_. Like go to the grand canyon. Instead of standing and experiencing the awe inspiring nature's work, people are taking pictures. All. the. time. In fact, I guarantee you that it's hard to find a person not taking pictures and not carrying a camera.
carsongross 12y ago
Travel has always struck me as being a positional good more about telling other people about your amazing life (previously using slide shows and social event conversations, now with pintwitfacetagram) than about actually enjoying the experience, which is typically uncomfortable, wasteful, filled with boredom, preposterously expensive and over far to quickly to develop any deep appreciation for your destination.
- colinbartlett 12y ago
  > uncomfortable, wasteful, filled with boredom, preposterously expensive and over far to quickly to develop any deep appreciation for your destination You and I have had vastly different travel experiences.
31reasons 12y ago
"Henry Wismayer is an award-winning freelance journalist based in London. He writes travel features for over 50 publications, including the New York Times, Guardian, Washington Post and TIME Magazine" Sounds pretty narcissistic to me.
- marknutter 12y ago
  There's a difference between self promotion and narcissism.
  - 31reasons 12y ago
    So professional self promotion is acceptable but social self promotion is not ? I don't know but his article feels like a weird rant. I don't know how to describe it but its like he is saying.."Don't drink wine if you don't understand its taste , texture, history etc". Don't tell people how to travel its just wrong.
sethrin 12y ago
I'd rather live someplace for an extended period of time than "travel". When you're in some place for a day, you can write paragraphs about your actions. When you're in a place for a week, you write fewer paragraphs about the memorable experiences. When you're in a place for a year, you write nothing at all, but you learn to think and live differently. It's a hell of a lot harder than jetting away for a weekend though.
netcan 12y ago
I’m not sure directly about Narcissism, but I think the meaning of travel today is very different from what it was 20 or 50 years ago. The world was a lot bigger. Foreign places a lot farther and a lot more foreign. Discovering that thew world was so big and had so much stuff in it that you had never considered was a sort of awing experience. Being a fish out of water in a way that a German would have felt in 1960s Marakesh was a lot greater. The traveller’s ability to plan and control the experience a lot more limited. Inevitably, the traveller was faced with a lot of experiences, people and places that they had no stereotypes and biases to understand through. They couldn’t make make sense of things. They would have just had to accept things without classifying, judging or using the normal mental models we have for making sense of our world. It was much more possible to have a humbling experience. These days not just travel, but all contact with foreign place is a much more accessible, easy and unchallenging recreation. That doesn’t mean it’s bad. It just isn’t as character building as it was, in general. Regarding narcissism… The desire to travel has always been part and parcel of the desire to have adventures. Stories to tell and memories to look back on. I think the stories to tell is the thread that narcissism pulls. I’m not sure how that relates to then and now.
switch007 12y ago
I found that really difficult to read. It was as if he spent far too much time hunting for unusual adjectives and nouns. "each turn in the road reconnoitred in advance", "...the once tedious Mr. Nuttall had been injected with an ebullient charisma", "prostrate yourself before the altar of benumbing technology", "windswept promontory"... Perhaps an explanation can be found in the that I am merely an unlettered ignoramus too adherent of simpler writing styles.
- solistice 12y ago
  No, I'd say that these don't really add anything to the quality of the piece except loss of clarity. Prose isn't poetry, and poetry isn't neccesairily made better by adding obscure wording.
dschiptsov 12y ago
What do you mean by become? If you are a deep love with your self, everything you do is wonderful and exceptional by definition. The only thing to bother about (otherwise naive self-deception will be broken by cognitive dissonance) is that it must be not easily obtainable or achievable for, you know, "other people". We had one web designer hotshot in Moscow who years ago said proudly in his blog - "I have been in 77 different countries" (we wished to comment "but haven't got any smarter", but let it pass). Nowadays it is about "difficult (read - expensive) to reach" places and/or "having that ultra hi-tech gear", but that is just another form of exhibitionist consumption or "consumption as way to distinguish oneself" (what nonsense!). Have you seen these modern Everest climbers? it is all about money and expensive stuff. There is mt.Dhaulagiri which is only few hundred meters less of height and much more difficult to claim - no one is there - one or two professional teams per year at most.
nickthemagicman 12y ago
I travel a lot and one big advantage of travel I've found is not necessarily all the 'cool adventures' but the fact that you're around strangers all the time so you're allowed to experiment with your personality. At home you become one version of yourself and people know you and treat you as such and you respond in kind. Everything becomes sort of routine to maintain the status quo. Travel is amazing because you literally have no preconceived notions or expectations from other people so you can experiment and be different versions of yourself and no one will be the wiser. You can learn a lot about yourself and others this way. It's also extremely liberating.
- saryant 12y ago
  I am the exact same way. When I'm at home, I'm always afraid of keeping up the same persona. I have very bad social anxiety at home, I'm terrible at talking to people at gatherings, haven't been on a date in four years. But when I'm traveling, none of that matters: > Travel is amazing because you literally have no preconceived notions or expectations from other people so you can experiment and be different versions of yourself and no one will be the wiser. You're 100% right. I go overseas and I have no trouble meeting new people, enjoying myself at bars and clubs, asking a cute fellow traveler out to coffee in Taipei or wherever the hell I am. The trick is learning how to bring that home. Still figuring that one out though I've gotten better.
  - nickthemagicman 12y ago
    What if you can't bring it home? What if your home environment is arranged such that you're at a significant disadvantage or there's toxic situations happening that keep you socially anxious at home? Obviously your social anxiety stems from 'being at home'. Maybe there's actual tangible external reasons causing it at home that you're not even aware of....
    - saryant 12y ago
      You're probably right. My anxiety at home even manifests as eczema, such that it completely disappears when I'm traveling but reoccurs the day before I fly home.
rileytg 12y ago
Perfect example of self loathing medium post. Nailed it bro
sehugg 12y ago
I'm confused as to how he can bust on the Canadian couple that prefers to internalize their travel experiences rather than proselytize to others. Isn't that the opposite of narcissism?
joshuaheard 12y ago
Buying a one-way ticket to Europe alone at age 22 with a backpack, $1,000, and two years of high school French is not narcissism, my friend. It's a maturing, confidence-building, life-expanding experience.
tootie 12y ago
This is why I loved An Idiot Abroad. Karl just relentessly called everything as he saw it. No interest in anything "exotic" if it wasn't actually enjoyable. He believs that every culture is just as stupid as the one he was raised in.
leroy_masochist 12y ago
I thought the points in this article were made more humorously here: http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/07/12-types-of-people-youll-find-in-every.html http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/07/12-types-of-people-youll-find-...
jordanpg 12y ago
Great to hear this said out loud. Travel without context is absurd. It's institutionalized syphoning of money away from tourists, under the guise of some sort of transformative experience with lots of photo-ops. In order for travel to be "meaningful", there must context for it. This might mean going to a country for business or to visit friends. It might mean being a tourist if you know what you're looking at. Simply showing up at a museum or a cathedral, reading the placard, and walking away transformed is the scam of the century. I never travel solely to see things unless they are things I want to see for reasons unrelated to the travel itself. Usually history.
drivingmenuts 12y ago
Aside from traveling for job or survival, all other traveling is about the traveller, not the place the traveller goes to. Aside from necessity, all else is narcissism. The question is what level is acceptable? Like most things that don't threaten the herd, that's up to the individual.
damon_c 12y ago
Hmm. Well considering that the alternative is not traveling, personally I can't say I have found that to be a huge benefit to people who have tried it instead.
davedx 12y ago
Typical cynical Internet bullshit. This article is right at home on Hacker News, where everybody rushes to uncover the negative points hiding in every positive story. Your life is what you make of it! Maybe travel does expand your horizons, your mind, your sense of the world in general. Maybe it's just an excuse to take lots of drugs and get laid. Who the fuck cares? The vast majority of people I know who have travelled are not narcissists. And if some of them were, well, the world's a big place. That's kind of the point.
- efuquen 12y ago
  Exactly. The post is full of contradictions and the "Narcissism" he rails against is reeking throughout it. And that word narcissism has become such an overused, cliche word for everything that ails society. It's used for all sorts of regular, predictable human behaviour when it's meant to be describing a much severe display of self importance and extreme selfishness. Simply talking about trips and posting pictures on facebook isn't narcissism. Technology has just enabled a form sharing to a wider audience that's been occurring for a very long time, the equivalent of sharing a photo album, is that narcissism?
  - Evolved 12y ago
    Narcissism has become like the word "offended." People become offended at the slightest thing and folks are accused of being narcissistic for saying the slightest thing that is going positive in their lives.
- Evolved 12y ago
  I agree 100%. It almost seems like he is jealous of those that may travel and then post their experiences on their social media. Isn't the first thing we discuss with friends that have traveled what did they visit, what did they try and what did they bring back for us? I'm not fortunate enough to be able to travel to exotic locations often (at all) but I have a friend that does and I thoroughly enjoy seeing the pictures and hearing about the experiences. It does also depend on the person doing the traveling as it is possible to come off as arrogant if your intentions are to rub it in everyone else' face.
Htsthbjig 12y ago
Putting other people down in order for you to feel better or above them is also narcissism. I am Spanish, learned Mandarin, Japanese, German , a little Russian and lived in other countries so much that I feel like at home in lots of places, have friends there too. When you travel, you change your way of thinking about others and about you. It is not only beautiful, it also makes you feel bad when you see the web of interest that rule the world, when you see corruption, or extreme poverty, or people dying. When something happens, like Ukraine, or Japan defaulting on their debt or whatever I could talk to someone in Skype and get a better picture from there that just any mass media that has a completely different set of interest than the people living there. There is no way you could understand the world just speaking your native language. But it is not for everybody, if someone wants to spend their money to see Great Pyramid of Giza and return to home, good for them.
te_chris 12y ago
I liked the writing and even agreed with some of it, having met Bintang guy. Couldn't stop one thing jumping out at me though: this guy is basically railing against travel becoming more affordable and approachable so that it is no longer the pursuit of the elite and stubbornly adventurous. I guess that's annoying in some ways as you run into the people from home that you're trying to escape by travelling to foreign destinations. Haughty elitism aside though, more people experiencing more of the world doesn't strike me as a bad thing.
alexvr 12y ago
No, traveling can be fun and exciting and novel, so many people long to do it. Travel has very little to do with narcissism. The thing that should be criticized here is the page of angry, useless nonsense you wrote. It doesn't help anyone. Stop complaining. Or, so I can say "to each his own," continue complaining, if you so desire, but keep it private.
jarsin 12y ago
To me the true narcissism of travel is all the people who think because they have been somewhere that makes them superior and more evolved than those who have not. I see this in the online dating world a lot where girls are all about the travel, and will write you off if you have not been to 20+ countries etc.
leeber 12y ago
I've never been out of the country. Will I one day? Sure, but it's not like I have a burning desire to leave tomorrow and spend significant amounts of time and money at some tourist destination on the other side of the earth. I don't really participate much in social media, I have my own interests and like to just do my own thing. I have friends who share similar interests and sometimes we'll do those things together. I don't have to share with random facebook friends (whom are really just acquaintances -- who really has 200+ real friends?) how many countries I've been to, how many miles I ran this morning, the wonderful healthy breakfast I ate, the celebrity I met on the street, or how amazing my volunteer experience was, how wonderful my bf/gf/husband/wife is, how crazy it was at the night club, etc etc etc. I have great memories of lots of things I've done, and I share those memories with the people I experienced them with, and sometimes I'll tell those experiences to close friends or family members, or share them at relevant moments in social situations like a related conversation taking place where I can actually add value (as opposed to just hearing myself talk and looking for more validation from the others around you). I do what I do and I'm perfectly content. Social media as a whole is an opportunity for people to sideline brag and make them feel part of "the club." They achieve their validation by how many people "like" their photo or post. Volunteering and traveling are two things that some (keyword some) people use as a vehicle to make themselves seem more important or esteemed than others. If you haven't traveled, surely you're a naive American who doesn't know anything about the world outside of your own bubble -- BUT on the otherhand, if you see the eiffel tower in person you somehow become wise and cultured by that experience. If you haven't volunteered recently, you certainly must be a selfish prick. And of course these people don't say these things directly to you, instead they have become an expert at implying them passively. Meh. There was recently a thread on front page of HN about which social networks middle school and high school kids are using. It's mainly instagram, and it's used as a vehicle to allow some kids to attain status as "popular". Everyone "follows" the popular kids, etc. I think the article of this thread highlights how that same popularity contest exists for older people too. Except it's on facebook, and you become popular by posting travel photos, volunteer photos, your color run photos, etc.
- leeber 12y ago
  Also I never thought I'd be quoting scripture, but this is a fitting passage! "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them" ... "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men." Another saying about players...(this one's not scripture) "Real players don't say they're players; they just are"
peterwwillis 12y ago
Some people imagine that by merely being transported to a different place, it will change them. But the only thing that can change you is using your experiences to shape your thoughts. Tourist, n.: "a person who is traveling or visiting a place for pleasure". For pleasure; not to transform one's being, or become one with nature, or to gain some massive insight into the plight of a poor remote community of people. Tourism is about having fun. Travel is just transportation. If you choose to you can do some soul-searching and maybe find something in you has changed on your journey. But it's not an inherent part of every travel you have. In this vein, you do not have to look down on yourself or anyone else for coming back from travel without being enlightened. I wish this writer would relax a bit, and maybe forgive himself for whatever self-loathing prompted this post.
Evolved 12y ago
Are we actually more narcissistic or does it just seem that way since we tend to be more open with our thoughts and feelings and because were able to share that with a much wider audience?

145 points by benbreen 12y ago

The old man in me screams: It's not that travel has become narcissistic, it's that everything has. Narcissists make everything about them, and there seem to be more narcissists now than ever before (if there aren't more, the existing ones are certainly more prominent). We're all one of the crowd, like the author says. Technology has made it very easy to forget that.

gordaco 12y ago
More than that, we have a lot of narcissism-enhancing, or at least narcissism-displaying, tools. In the form of social networks.
- ivraatiems 12y ago
  Oh, yes, for sure. I just didn't want to bring them up and have my comment be too on the nose ;)
- Namrog84 12y ago
  As we complain about narcissism enhancing social websites as we are on a social place portraying our own views and opinions. The line is a fuzzy one.
  - ivraatiems 12y ago
    It's true! I keep refreshing the page to see if people are upvoting me (I think that's what we call it on HN?). But some narcissism is healthy; the problem is more when it's allowed to run rampant or become the sole purpose behind some behavior. It's the difference between posting because you have something to say, hoping people might agree, and posting because you need people to agree with you.
    - Filthy_casual 12y ago
      I think spamming refresh happens not because you're narcissist but because you are eager to see if your opinion is well-received by others. That can be unhealthy. It's one thing to get feedback from multiple sources to notice things and behaviors that are harmful or unwanted (like being cocky or people feeling you're argumentative) and another if you're anxious to learn whether or not others will find value in what you said. It's roughly like... The "nice guy syndrome", where a person is engaged with what others expect from him so much that he undermines what he personally wants. In online forum terms this might mean that you're commenting in favor of the popular opinion of the forum and not voicing your own opinion to see whether it has flaws or not. Naturally, this is one of the many reasons why a community becomes an "echo chamber".
  - Dewie 12y ago
    I think I post a lot on places like HN to compensate for a lack of a social life. It's not like I even try to form any connection with people on forums online, so I'm not making friends, but I think there is a connection.
amelius 12y ago
True. But while most forms of narcissism, depending on your view, are innocent, the problem with this particular form of narcissism is that it is a burden on the environment.
amelius 12y ago
True. But while most forms of narcissism, depending on your view, are relatively innocent, the problem with this particular form of narcissism is that it is an ecological disaster in progress.
notahacker 12y ago
People might be becoming more narcissistic, but mostly they're just finding it easier to permanently share the anecdotes they'd otherwise be doling out only to those in their immediate company at any given time. When the author argues that "Instead of taking time to absorb and consider, many people seem more inclined to travel quickly, tick off the ‘don’t miss’ highlights and form broad-brush assumptions based on the bare minimum of immersion" he's miles off. People have been targeting the 'sights' since the notion of overseas travel as a source of pleasure began aeons ago. If anything, the web actually encourages immersion, because the "sights" themselves can be enjoyed from all conceivable angles in the comfort of ones own bedroom. What's changed is that when travellers and tourists do visit the "highlights" - often called that for good reason - they'll inevitably feel the need to share selfies with their entire social network afterwards. The same goes for the photos shared as a permanent record of their night out at the bar down the road in Clapham rather than Tanzania, or the people who actually do go to Eastbourne and feel the need to check-in to show they've been to the actual pier. Or people sharing their pithy observations on the football, or approval of the latest Upworthy video. Actually, the most narcissistic act of all has got to be blogging, because I'm sure there's a time that travel journalists spent their time in between the tough grind of churning out freelance travel articles exploring the world around them rather than eloquently excoriating their usual audience on medium.com to broadcast how much more worldly they are than all the other holidaying proles.
rhizome 12y ago
Narcissism may have increased relative to the past, I don't know, but it seems a simpler explanation that travel has become much cheaper as time has gone on, so now there are more people capable of participating and talking about it. Couple that with the development of technological tools able to amplify communications to more people than in the past, and the incidence of travel (among many other topics) becomes more visible. It comes as no surprise that people do things that they see other people doing, which I don't think has changed much as time goes on. So, people travel, they talk about it, more people "hear" it, and more people travel as a result.
- ivraatiems 12y ago
  That's fair, but it's not just about whether people are doing it. It's about how they present what they are doing.
  - rhizome 12y ago
    "How?" Are you saying that narcissism is a technique?
    - ivraatiems 12y ago
      I'm saying the presentation is a symptom of the purpose. In my opinion, social media are not designed to share ideas or experiences, but rather, as a means to seek approval from others. I think that somebody who Instagrams his trip is more likely to be doing so because he wants others to see what he's doing and judge him on it, rather than so that he can document the trip for himself. But that's only my opinion and not a matter of objective knowledge.
      - rhizome 12y ago
        That's pretty misanthropic and betrays a naive concept of narcissism.
jwmerrill 12y ago
> The old man in me screams: It's not that travel has become narcissistic, it's that everything has. Old men have always bemoaned the narcissism of young people. It isn't "kids these days," it's just "kids." Maybe it's a cliche at this point to bring this up, but “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” is attributed to Socrates. I've enjoyed the Language Log's "narcissism skepticism" over the years. Maybe someone else will too: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/index.php?s=narcissism http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/index.php?s=narcissism
- mst 12y ago
  I have a feeling "narcissism" is code for "the younger generation's status signaling mechanisms"
  - contingencies 12y ago
    +1 insightful ;)
cafard 12y ago
The old man that I am asks, Are you old enough to remember the days of slides and projectors? If not, a bit of research in popular culture should be able to turn up gags from the comics and the situation comedies about the horrors of the neighbors' slide show minutely cataloging their two week vacation to Yellowstone or Paris or ... Technology has made it possible to bore, amuse, or irritate a global audience rather than a neighborhood one.

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revscat 12y ago

Perhaps. And I have certainly encountered the type of traveller who seemingly tells you stories of their journeys so that they may one-up you on the social scale. I tend to forgive this, though, because underneath it all we are simply simians with shoes, jockeying for social status and sex. I have travelled some in my life. Not extensively, but enough to have a few stories of my own. My guidelines around traveling are: 1) Be humble. Related: be prepared to apologize if you do something unintentionally rude. I had to do this frequently in Asia because me, being American, was not used to taking off my shoes whenever I entered a home or restaurant. I quickly learned, but there were times at the beginning where I forgot. Apologies helped. Exception: Australia. 2) Be reserved. If someone is interested in you or your country they will ask. If not, don't bore them with something they may or may not care about. Exception: Ireland. 3) Do not portray competitiveness. This can easily come across as arrogant and provincial. Exception: Ireland. 4) Be inquisitive. Ask questions about the country you are visiting, and be genuine about it, not judgmental. Exception: North Korea. 5) When you return home, tell your tales to interested friends or coworkers, but be aware that not everyone will care. Exception: Finland.

busterarm 12y ago
Would you be willing to expound upon your exceptions?
- MattBearman 12y ago
  I was about to ask the same, particularly as I'm currently traveling round Europe, and happen to be in Finland right now.
  - kiiski 12y ago
    As someone who lives there, I'm also curious about that. Should number 5 be read as "tell everyone about Finland", or "tell no one about Finland"? Why?
- ribs 12y ago
  Yeah, I want to hear about the exceptions! -That's- the piece I want to read. Not this broken down travel writer complaining about himself.

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batemanesque 12y ago

damn Millenials, everything is an exercise in narcissism these days

return0 12y ago

Apparently traveling is "something to do" for developed-country-dwellers. What used to be a hobby for the ultrarich of the 19th century is now part of the middle class dream. The bigger issue than narcissism however is the homogeneity of cultures today. There is barely anything to "explore" that is original and not part of some touristy routine (even space will soon turn out a boring destination). There's just an enormous industry built behind it that keeps the train moving.

saryant 12y ago
I have to disagree. Sure, if you stick with package tours taking an air conditioned bus from one site to another, that's all you'll get. But there is more than enough to explore that is nothing like developed, Western countries. Yes, there are things like the Banana Pancake trail where it just feels like you can't escape the Lonely Planet bus. But I can't agree that the world can be so distilled into a guidebook that there's nothing left, or that somehow that makes the world homogenous. A tourist can turn the world into Disneyland if they wish, but that's their own damn fault.
3rd3 12y ago
I personally believe that Minecraft-complete worlds can never become boring. People forget, and the complexity allows for unforeseen things. And I also don’t believe in the solution to Fermi Paradox that sufficiently advanced cultures disappear in virtual realities. There is always something special about the physical world where all things can terminate irreversibly.
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foobarian 12y ago
Ultimately it is about the price of energy. We're at a point where the price per Joule of fuel suitable for all kinds of transportation is the lowest it's ever been, affordable to an unprecedented number of folks. I often wonder about a hypothetical civilization that might arise in the future if the current one breaks down due to war or some natural disaster. How will it develop without access to easy oil and ores? Perhaps it will be a more thoughtful and humble civilization, and maybe the limits of its world will not seem so small as they do today.

droopyEyelids 12y ago

When Mark Twain's The Innocents Abroad, published in 1869 contained: The gentle reader will never, never know what a consummate ass he can become until he goes abroad. I speak now, of course, in the supposition that the gentle reader has not been abroad, and therefore is not already a consummate ass. to describe the results of the first-ever pleasure cruise to Europe, I have to assume that pleasure travel was an exercise in narcissism since the very first.

eric_bullington 12y ago

Maybe this is the case in SF and NYC, but in most of the rural, suburban, and small-city United States, there aren't that many people who have traveled or lived outside of Europe or North America.

Dewie 12y ago
The writer is based in London and seems to be British. Did the article especially bring up cities like NYC and SF? Or the US? I didn't notice.
- eric_bullington 12y ago
  I was writing from my experience, which includes SF and NYC more than London (it's been well over a decade since I was in London). His thesis was that travel has become a token of narcissism for Westerners ("idea has seeped into the West’s worldview"). He even describes a Canadian couple who he believes fits this description at the end. My reply is that maybe that's the case in big cities, but that travel off the "beaten path" is relatively rare among most Westerners, at least in the US.
adestefan 12y ago
For the vast majority of people in this world they never leave the area where they are born.

jgh 12y ago

Next article: "Who are these kids and why are they on my lawn?" published by Onion Belt Quarterly.

pasbesoin 12y ago

In part, I think today's emphasis on narcissism is just another way of saying that you need to pick your company carefully. If you read that previous sentence carefully, there's a bit of a rhetorical edge to it. Self-absorption is a major component of, if not every human condition, certainly of human society. If you don't like where it's going, striking early is the best response. Don't let it take you there; don't lend it your power. To the extent you can, don't put up with the narcissistic boss. Don't let narcissistic friends and acquaintances dictate the agenda. If they want/choose to break out of that shell and engage in what you are doing and interested in, fine. Maybe they'll learn something. And then, when it's your turn, maybe the lesson will be a bit more gentle and strike a bit sooner, before you get too far down that path, yourself. If anything, today's world seems to be teaching this lesson less and less effectively than perhaps it should.

eric_bullington 12y ago
Awesome comment, I've read it multiple times.

walru 12y ago

In my recent tales of online dating I've run into this a lot - so much so I've made a point of mentioning in my OKC profile that while it's great to love traveling, this tells me nothing of your personality, pursuits or goals. The vast majority of individuals highlight their love of travel, or where they're going to go next as if this is defining themselves in some way. While going to Paris and walking the streets for an extended weekend allows you to breathe different air, I fail to see this as something which defines a person. Volunteering your time locally speaks infinitely stronger to one's character than how much time and money they can spend outside of their 25 mile home radius. To that end, I believe it's absolutely necessary for your soul to experience as much as you can.. but there's just as many adventures in your own backyard.

overloaded 12y ago
I absolutely agree. It's incredibly important to volunteer your time and make a difference where you life. Out of sheer curiosity, how much time have you spent doing this?
- walru 12y ago
  Sadly not as much as I'd like to as I've been unemployed for the last six months and am starting with my charity at home. That said, I go to the LA river clean-ups the several times a year they occur, but have recently thought I could do something with teaching game design, or at least showing the processes that go into making games at a local youth center. Sadly, I don't know how to and/or have the time to fully explore that option at the moment.
- dashboardfront 12y ago
  Why? Hypothetically, would I not have a better impact if I used the same time to take up extra work and instead donated that money? I would imagine the price per hour to hire labor for, say, a food drive could easily be funded multiple times through the price per hour to hire a software developer. Would I not make even more an impact if I chose to donate to an organization that operates in low-income countries? And why would locally matter? Are people in need not people in need regardless of where they're located?

koof 12y ago

This has a lot of truth to it, but rather than encouraging labor as the opposite thing that makes you interesting, who cares about being interesting?

metra 12y ago

It sounds a bit like the author's forgotten what it's like not to travel at all. As an American, I wish my friends would venture outside our borders so that in the future when, inevitably, we will need to invade yet another country perhaps we will reconsider. I'll gladly take the risks of homogenization and narcissism to the risks of an insulated population that accepts the media's perspective of the world rather than their own firsthand (albeit limited) experience.

ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
Maybe everyone here makes 6 figure salaries, but overseas travel is ridiculously expensive. I've found that it's mostly the people who can afford it who proclaim the benefits of travel.
- cwilson 12y ago
  I traveled all around South America for six months and spent maybe 10k total on the trip and I wasn't living frugally at all. I stayed in Airbnb's over hostels, ate good food often, and went on lots of paid excursions. I probably could have spent 5k total if I did the hostel thing, ate on the cheap, and didn't pay for any tourist activities. My point is you can travel on the cheap if you put effort into it, especially in South America. Traveling in Europe? Sure, that's going to be just as expensive if not more than simply living day to day in the states. There are definitely places you can travel without making a six figure salary however.
  - taeric 12y ago
    It isn't just the monetary cost of the trip, but the opportunity cost of not having a paying job. The later is far more expensive than the former.
    - chatmasta 12y ago
      What's the opportunity cost of not having a job when you're in South America anyway? Where would you put your salary?

mooted1 12y ago

What an unbearable read.

daemonk 12y ago

The key quote in the article is when the author describes his own job as a travel writer as "an over-inflated respect for the unique value of my own experience". I think that applies to all experiences these days, not just traveling. Especially with social media serving kind of as an "enabler" of this over-inflated respect.

guard-of-terra 12y ago

You should absolutely travel. That's what life is for. That doesn't grant you un-boring life right away, tho. Not being able to actually interact with natives (that don't sell something to you) is a problem. There are some solutions like couchsurfing, but it's not solved completely.

iterationx 12y ago

Travelling has always been a romantic notion: "The Road to Oxiana", Steamships, "The Grand Tour". Its traditionally not been so accessible. Now that it is, you're more inclined to run into boring normal people (possibly like yourself)

noname123 12y ago

I'd love to hear some of your guys' traveling stories off the beaten paths and what you have learned? Me personally I learned more about my traveling companion honestly than the trip itself, more often than not that the relationship or friendship is doomed to fail and/or in retrospect how self-centered I was haha.

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colinbartlett 12y ago

Or maybe just rubbing your travel experiences into the faces of everyone via Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. is the narcissistic part? Those that travel and don't tell anyone, but rather just enjoy the experience -- are they narcissists?

tinco 12y ago
No, they're selfish for not sharing their experiences of the wonders of the world with those close to them.
- hobo_mark 12y ago
  /sarcasm
computerjunkie 12y ago
A good perspective. I never post where I traveled to (unless a friend somehow tags me and mentions the location we where at) on social networks even if I have photos, souvenirs and merchandise from the trips. I tell people where I've been only if the ask me during a conversation. Going around babbling about "when I was in..." seems brash and boastful. No matter what the author said, traveling opens up your eyes if you truly engage with the local culture.
- aet 12y ago
  "remember when is the lowest form of conversation" -Tony Soprano

microcolonel 12y ago

Ironically, the article makes for a splendid example of an exercise in narcissism.

richardlblair 12y ago

You can say the same thing for the self proclaimed foodies who instagrams every meal while the others at the table politely wait for them to finish so they may eat together. By the time they get to it the food is fucking cold, and while they attempt to highlight the flavours they don't realize the moment has passed. The experience, in its entirety, has been destroyed. The issue is not traveling, it's that our generation has made being a narcissist cool. We post a small sampling of our experiences on facebook, twitter, medium, and instagram. But, only the positive ones. We could never risk letting the people of the world know that we are average. Social media has devalued our experiences and the validation/interest of our closest friends, and increased the value of validation and interest of total strangers. Your value is the not the sum total of likes, retweets, karma, and <3's on instagram. I would go so far to say that your perceived value by those who matter is inversely correlated to your likes, retweets, karma and <3's /end rant Oh the irony that I unloaded all this here, on social media...

general_failure 12y ago

I am surprised the author makes no mention of the 'click-happy' tourist. This traveller only wants to take pictures and such kinds are _everywhere_. Like go to the grand canyon. Instead of standing and experiencing the awe inspiring nature's work, people are taking pictures. All. the. time. In fact, I guarantee you that it's hard to find a person not taking pictures and not carrying a camera.

carsongross 12y ago

Travel has always struck me as being a positional good more about telling other people about your amazing life (previously using slide shows and social event conversations, now with pintwitfacetagram) than about actually enjoying the experience, which is typically uncomfortable, wasteful, filled with boredom, preposterously expensive and over far to quickly to develop any deep appreciation for your destination.

colinbartlett 12y ago
> uncomfortable, wasteful, filled with boredom, preposterously expensive and over far to quickly to develop any deep appreciation for your destination You and I have had vastly different travel experiences.

31reasons 12y ago

"Henry Wismayer is an award-winning freelance journalist based in London. He writes travel features for over 50 publications, including the New York Times, Guardian, Washington Post and TIME Magazine" Sounds pretty narcissistic to me.

marknutter 12y ago
There's a difference between self promotion and narcissism.
- 31reasons 12y ago
  So professional self promotion is acceptable but social self promotion is not ? I don't know but his article feels like a weird rant. I don't know how to describe it but its like he is saying.."Don't drink wine if you don't understand its taste , texture, history etc". Don't tell people how to travel its just wrong.

sethrin 12y ago

I'd rather live someplace for an extended period of time than "travel". When you're in some place for a day, you can write paragraphs about your actions. When you're in a place for a week, you write fewer paragraphs about the memorable experiences. When you're in a place for a year, you write nothing at all, but you learn to think and live differently. It's a hell of a lot harder than jetting away for a weekend though.

netcan 12y ago

I’m not sure directly about Narcissism, but I think the meaning of travel today is very different from what it was 20 or 50 years ago. The world was a lot bigger. Foreign places a lot farther and a lot more foreign. Discovering that thew world was so big and had so much stuff in it that you had never considered was a sort of awing experience. Being a fish out of water in a way that a German would have felt in 1960s Marakesh was a lot greater. The traveller’s ability to plan and control the experience a lot more limited. Inevitably, the traveller was faced with a lot of experiences, people and places that they had no stereotypes and biases to understand through. They couldn’t make make sense of things. They would have just had to accept things without classifying, judging or using the normal mental models we have for making sense of our world. It was much more possible to have a humbling experience. These days not just travel, but all contact with foreign place is a much more accessible, easy and unchallenging recreation. That doesn’t mean it’s bad. It just isn’t as character building as it was, in general. Regarding narcissism… The desire to travel has always been part and parcel of the desire to have adventures. Stories to tell and memories to look back on. I think the stories to tell is the thread that narcissism pulls. I’m not sure how that relates to then and now.

switch007 12y ago

I found that really difficult to read. It was as if he spent far too much time hunting for unusual adjectives and nouns. "each turn in the road reconnoitred in advance", "...the once tedious Mr. Nuttall had been injected with an ebullient charisma", "prostrate yourself before the altar of benumbing technology", "windswept promontory"... Perhaps an explanation can be found in the that I am merely an unlettered ignoramus too adherent of simpler writing styles.

solistice 12y ago
No, I'd say that these don't really add anything to the quality of the piece except loss of clarity. Prose isn't poetry, and poetry isn't neccesairily made better by adding obscure wording.

dschiptsov 12y ago

What do you mean by become? If you are a deep love with your self, everything you do is wonderful and exceptional by definition. The only thing to bother about (otherwise naive self-deception will be broken by cognitive dissonance) is that it must be not easily obtainable or achievable for, you know, "other people". We had one web designer hotshot in Moscow who years ago said proudly in his blog - "I have been in 77 different countries" (we wished to comment "but haven't got any smarter", but let it pass). Nowadays it is about "difficult (read - expensive) to reach" places and/or "having that ultra hi-tech gear", but that is just another form of exhibitionist consumption or "consumption as way to distinguish oneself" (what nonsense!). Have you seen these modern Everest climbers? it is all about money and expensive stuff. There is mt.Dhaulagiri which is only few hundred meters less of height and much more difficult to claim - no one is there - one or two professional teams per year at most.

nickthemagicman 12y ago

I travel a lot and one big advantage of travel I've found is not necessarily all the 'cool adventures' but the fact that you're around strangers all the time so you're allowed to experiment with your personality. At home you become one version of yourself and people know you and treat you as such and you respond in kind. Everything becomes sort of routine to maintain the status quo. Travel is amazing because you literally have no preconceived notions or expectations from other people so you can experiment and be different versions of yourself and no one will be the wiser. You can learn a lot about yourself and others this way. It's also extremely liberating.

saryant 12y ago
I am the exact same way. When I'm at home, I'm always afraid of keeping up the same persona. I have very bad social anxiety at home, I'm terrible at talking to people at gatherings, haven't been on a date in four years. But when I'm traveling, none of that matters: > Travel is amazing because you literally have no preconceived notions or expectations from other people so you can experiment and be different versions of yourself and no one will be the wiser. You're 100% right. I go overseas and I have no trouble meeting new people, enjoying myself at bars and clubs, asking a cute fellow traveler out to coffee in Taipei or wherever the hell I am. The trick is learning how to bring that home. Still figuring that one out though I've gotten better.
- nickthemagicman 12y ago
  What if you can't bring it home? What if your home environment is arranged such that you're at a significant disadvantage or there's toxic situations happening that keep you socially anxious at home? Obviously your social anxiety stems from 'being at home'. Maybe there's actual tangible external reasons causing it at home that you're not even aware of....
  - saryant 12y ago
    You're probably right. My anxiety at home even manifests as eczema, such that it completely disappears when I'm traveling but reoccurs the day before I fly home.

rileytg 12y ago

Perfect example of self loathing medium post. Nailed it bro

sehugg 12y ago

I'm confused as to how he can bust on the Canadian couple that prefers to internalize their travel experiences rather than proselytize to others. Isn't that the opposite of narcissism?

joshuaheard 12y ago

Buying a one-way ticket to Europe alone at age 22 with a backpack, $1,000, and two years of high school French is not narcissism, my friend. It's a maturing, confidence-building, life-expanding experience.

tootie 12y ago

This is why I loved An Idiot Abroad. Karl just relentessly called everything as he saw it. No interest in anything "exotic" if it wasn't actually enjoyable. He believs that every culture is just as stupid as the one he was raised in.

leroy_masochist 12y ago

I thought the points in this article were made more humorously here: http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/07/12-types-of-people-youll-find-in-every.html http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/07/12-types-of-people-youll-find-...

jordanpg 12y ago

Great to hear this said out loud. Travel without context is absurd. It's institutionalized syphoning of money away from tourists, under the guise of some sort of transformative experience with lots of photo-ops. In order for travel to be "meaningful", there must context for it. This might mean going to a country for business or to visit friends. It might mean being a tourist if you know what you're looking at. Simply showing up at a museum or a cathedral, reading the placard, and walking away transformed is the scam of the century. I never travel solely to see things unless they are things I want to see for reasons unrelated to the travel itself. Usually history.

drivingmenuts 12y ago

Aside from traveling for job or survival, all other traveling is about the traveller, not the place the traveller goes to. Aside from necessity, all else is narcissism. The question is what level is acceptable? Like most things that don't threaten the herd, that's up to the individual.

damon_c 12y ago

Hmm. Well considering that the alternative is not traveling, personally I can't say I have found that to be a huge benefit to people who have tried it instead.

davedx 12y ago

Typical cynical Internet bullshit. This article is right at home on Hacker News, where everybody rushes to uncover the negative points hiding in every positive story. Your life is what you make of it! Maybe travel does expand your horizons, your mind, your sense of the world in general. Maybe it's just an excuse to take lots of drugs and get laid. Who the fuck cares? The vast majority of people I know who have travelled are not narcissists. And if some of them were, well, the world's a big place. That's kind of the point.

efuquen 12y ago
Exactly. The post is full of contradictions and the "Narcissism" he rails against is reeking throughout it. And that word narcissism has become such an overused, cliche word for everything that ails society. It's used for all sorts of regular, predictable human behaviour when it's meant to be describing a much severe display of self importance and extreme selfishness. Simply talking about trips and posting pictures on facebook isn't narcissism. Technology has just enabled a form sharing to a wider audience that's been occurring for a very long time, the equivalent of sharing a photo album, is that narcissism?
- Evolved 12y ago
  Narcissism has become like the word "offended." People become offended at the slightest thing and folks are accused of being narcissistic for saying the slightest thing that is going positive in their lives.
Evolved 12y ago
I agree 100%. It almost seems like he is jealous of those that may travel and then post their experiences on their social media. Isn't the first thing we discuss with friends that have traveled what did they visit, what did they try and what did they bring back for us? I'm not fortunate enough to be able to travel to exotic locations often (at all) but I have a friend that does and I thoroughly enjoy seeing the pictures and hearing about the experiences. It does also depend on the person doing the traveling as it is possible to come off as arrogant if your intentions are to rub it in everyone else' face.

Htsthbjig 12y ago

Putting other people down in order for you to feel better or above them is also narcissism. I am Spanish, learned Mandarin, Japanese, German , a little Russian and lived in other countries so much that I feel like at home in lots of places, have friends there too. When you travel, you change your way of thinking about others and about you. It is not only beautiful, it also makes you feel bad when you see the web of interest that rule the world, when you see corruption, or extreme poverty, or people dying. When something happens, like Ukraine, or Japan defaulting on their debt or whatever I could talk to someone in Skype and get a better picture from there that just any mass media that has a completely different set of interest than the people living there. There is no way you could understand the world just speaking your native language. But it is not for everybody, if someone wants to spend their money to see Great Pyramid of Giza and return to home, good for them.

te_chris 12y ago

I liked the writing and even agreed with some of it, having met Bintang guy. Couldn't stop one thing jumping out at me though: this guy is basically railing against travel becoming more affordable and approachable so that it is no longer the pursuit of the elite and stubbornly adventurous. I guess that's annoying in some ways as you run into the people from home that you're trying to escape by travelling to foreign destinations. Haughty elitism aside though, more people experiencing more of the world doesn't strike me as a bad thing.

alexvr 12y ago

No, traveling can be fun and exciting and novel, so many people long to do it. Travel has very little to do with narcissism. The thing that should be criticized here is the page of angry, useless nonsense you wrote. It doesn't help anyone. Stop complaining. Or, so I can say "to each his own," continue complaining, if you so desire, but keep it private.

jarsin 12y ago

To me the true narcissism of travel is all the people who think because they have been somewhere that makes them superior and more evolved than those who have not. I see this in the online dating world a lot where girls are all about the travel, and will write you off if you have not been to 20+ countries etc.

leeber 12y ago

I've never been out of the country. Will I one day? Sure, but it's not like I have a burning desire to leave tomorrow and spend significant amounts of time and money at some tourist destination on the other side of the earth. I don't really participate much in social media, I have my own interests and like to just do my own thing. I have friends who share similar interests and sometimes we'll do those things together. I don't have to share with random facebook friends (whom are really just acquaintances -- who really has 200+ real friends?) how many countries I've been to, how many miles I ran this morning, the wonderful healthy breakfast I ate, the celebrity I met on the street, or how amazing my volunteer experience was, how wonderful my bf/gf/husband/wife is, how crazy it was at the night club, etc etc etc. I have great memories of lots of things I've done, and I share those memories with the people I experienced them with, and sometimes I'll tell those experiences to close friends or family members, or share them at relevant moments in social situations like a related conversation taking place where I can actually add value (as opposed to just hearing myself talk and looking for more validation from the others around you). I do what I do and I'm perfectly content. Social media as a whole is an opportunity for people to sideline brag and make them feel part of "the club." They achieve their validation by how many people "like" their photo or post. Volunteering and traveling are two things that some (keyword some) people use as a vehicle to make themselves seem more important or esteemed than others. If you haven't traveled, surely you're a naive American who doesn't know anything about the world outside of your own bubble -- BUT on the otherhand, if you see the eiffel tower in person you somehow become wise and cultured by that experience. If you haven't volunteered recently, you certainly must be a selfish prick. And of course these people don't say these things directly to you, instead they have become an expert at implying them passively. Meh. There was recently a thread on front page of HN about which social networks middle school and high school kids are using. It's mainly instagram, and it's used as a vehicle to allow some kids to attain status as "popular". Everyone "follows" the popular kids, etc. I think the article of this thread highlights how that same popularity contest exists for older people too. Except it's on facebook, and you become popular by posting travel photos, volunteer photos, your color run photos, etc.

leeber 12y ago
Also I never thought I'd be quoting scripture, but this is a fitting passage! "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them" ... "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men." Another saying about players...(this one's not scripture) "Real players don't say they're players; they just are"

peterwwillis 12y ago

Some people imagine that by merely being transported to a different place, it will change them. But the only thing that can change you is using your experiences to shape your thoughts. Tourist, n.: "a person who is traveling or visiting a place for pleasure". For pleasure; not to transform one's being, or become one with nature, or to gain some massive insight into the plight of a poor remote community of people. Tourism is about having fun. Travel is just transportation. If you choose to you can do some soul-searching and maybe find something in you has changed on your journey. But it's not an inherent part of every travel you have. In this vein, you do not have to look down on yourself or anyone else for coming back from travel without being enlightened. I wish this writer would relax a bit, and maybe forgive himself for whatever self-loathing prompted this post.

Evolved 12y ago

Are we actually more narcissistic or does it just seem that way since we tend to be more open with our thoughts and feelings and because were able to share that with a much wider audience?