14 ms·

A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

214 points by elijahparker 12y ago

elijahparker 12y ago
Excerpt from article: Another patient of mine, a 28-year-old man, was having a lot of trouble at his desk job in an advertising firm. Having to sit at a desk for long hours and focus his attention on one task was nearly impossible. He would multitask, listening to music and texting, while “working” to prevent activities from becoming routine. Eventually he quit his job and threw himself into a start-up company, which has him on the road in constantly changing environments. He is much happier and — little surprise — has lost his symptoms of A.D.H.D.
- ahknight 12y ago
  Having worked at an ad agency and startups, if you can find an interesting startup you're going to be in a much easier place when it comes to motivation. It may not solve everything, but it'll make things easier.
barsonme 12y ago
I'd say one of the causes for over-medication is the lack of willingness of both parents and children to work on ways to succeed without use of medication. I have (fairly bad) ADHD and my doctor did give me medicine, but only half the light dosage of Strattera, which isn't a stimulant. Long story short, I ended up hating feeling comatose from the medicine so much I began to work through my ADHD by structuring my life and finding things I was actually interested in. But it would've been so easy to give me some Adderall and let me just do my thing, which I believe a lot of parents and doctors do. It's the quick and easy route, but arguably worse in the long run when the children grow up to be adults dependent on managing their ADHD with a crutch instead of on their own.
- rwbcxrz 12y ago
  I'm glad that worked for you. I was diagnosed with ADHD not long ago. Before my diagnosis, I was about to quit a job that I actually liked for the second time. I like my job. I liked my last job. I like programming, I liked my coworkers. Given a challenge, I was always able to rise to the challenge. Given something more mundane, I lost all motivation and capability. For years, I had blamed myself. I thought I was lazy and a shitty person. I was prone to binge eating and drinking. I was depressed as hell. Most people can't restructure their lives to work around their symptoms. I don't feel like I should have to. I certainly don't want to.
  - molsongolden 12y ago
    Are you managing with medication now? I wonder if those who are able to restructure are lower on a spectrum. Your situation sounds similar to mine and attempts to restructure have been difficult. I haven't used medication for years because I bought into the idea that it would limit me and I could overcome if I just work hard enough but finally I've realized it just feels like every single thing is harder than it needs to be. I feel like I've wasted a lot of time beating my head against the wall.
- iandanforth 12y ago
  I would be interested in reading a longer blog post on your process. Any chance you've written one?
- silencio 12y ago
  I'm not sure I agree with calling drugs a "crutch". Nobody in their right mind would tell me that Singulair or Dulera is a crutch for my asthma. Nobody would call albuterol inhalers overprescribed or asthma overdiagnosed either. My allergist always has to tell me not to work my life around my triggers past a certain point too. Yet I hear it all the time about the Adderall and Vyvanse I used to take, and about ADHD. All. the. time. I have pretty bad ADHD too. My parents didn't want to put me on any meds, so I learned all the coping mechanisms the hard and expensive way _and_ feel that I lost out on a lot of opportunities when I was younger as a result. It's the only childhood issue I still hold a grudge over. When I could finally do whatever I wanted, I felt like a huge burden was lifted with meds because I never stopped struggling with said coping mechanisms anyway. Including stuff like "take a shower" and "eat lunch" on my daily-todo HabitRPG checklist. Unfortunately I'm trying to get pregnant and had to get off almost everything, so now I'm back to digging myself into a hole, getting frustrated with even my non-standard and fun life. If it wasn't for the fact that I have a partner to rely on, I probably would be telling my obgyn to go fuck herself about her judgment call regarding non-stimulant ADHD meds known to be safe. ADHD is a huge negative impact on my life, and I'd even qualify it as being worse than something potentially life-threatening like asthma >:P Obviously not everyone is the same, and abuse is definitely a problem. That doesn't equate to a crutch IMO. Not to mention there's a million other problems in the way, one in the US being a lack of accessible and affordable quality health care so people with ADHD can easily get help with non-medication options...
  - ahknight 12y ago
    I watched a talk by Dr. Barkley a while back and he had a wonderful way of phrasing it (paraphrased): "Suppose you had a person in a wheelchair who needed in your building. Would you build a ramp and then after 30 days take it down, saying 'Well, by now they should have figured out how to get into the building.' NO! It's a remedy for a handicap. Neither should you deny medication to someone with another kind of handicap when they need it." After I let that sink in I suddenly didn't give a crap about the anti-pharma crowd. I have what I need and it helps me, so fuck 'em. And yes, without it the daily routine isn't one. Completely there.
    - 12y ago
- warfangle 12y ago
  Strattera usually isn't the first drug chosen, because it doesn't work for everyone. It primarily works on norepinephrine as a reuptake inhibitor. It's basically in the same class as bupropion (which is sometimes also prescribed off label for ADHD, though it's usually used as an antidepressant for those with cyclothymia or to aid in smoking cessation). Ritalin works by inhibiting the re-uptake of dopamine and norepinephrine. Amphetamine (adderal) works on dopamine, norepinephrine and seratonin. Not only is it a re-uptake inhibitor, but it actually "reverses the polarity" on neuron vesicles, causing them to dump their loads. For some with ADHD, strattera works just fine. For others, strattera will make them feel like a zombie (or do nothing at all), while as little as 5mg of amphetamine salts a day will be sufficient. A lot of folks with ADHD do just fine without medication. And others struggle with the thought of taking "the easy way out" for decades, and end up with a shitload of additional problems - primarily in the self confidence zone. Some only need the medication to get things back on track, establish routines and so forth ... but others really do need it. Chronically untreated ADHD is painful, debilitating, embarrassing, and so unnecessary.
  - Kudos 12y ago
    > Strattera usually isn't the first drug chosen, because it doesn't work for everyone. Strattera is supposedly the first avenue of treatment in Europe follwed by stimulants, the reverse of the US.
    - barsonme 12y ago
      Oh, that's interesting. I live in the U.S.!
pulkitpulkit 12y ago
Interesting that the article goes down the route of providing more stimulus to help treat ADHD.. wonder if there's also a case for reducing our need for more stimuli (e.g. with mindfulness or meditation) or whether that's just too against the grain of how we are moving as a society (in to a more digital, multi-tasked world)
- ahknight 12y ago
  That's a whole different topic, even though to an outsider they may seem related by the stimuli concept. ADHD is an impulse control disorder. Increasing the stimulus levels of positive things around such a person induces a natural focus to those things. Reducing stimuli would alternately induce sleep or painful boredom that will express itself in highly random and chaotic ways after a short time. Sometimes I think it would be a good idea to turn everything off and read a book. When I wake up after trying that I realize how many times I've tried it before and it's at least a few days before I get the idea again...
- toodles1234 12y ago
  > wonder if there's also a case for reducing our need for more stimuli (e.g. with mindfulness or meditation) A study was done in Australia ten years ago on a type of meditation that encourages you to be more mindful to see what effect it can have on ADHD. Children were able to reduce or even cut out their medication completely after completing the meditation program. http://ccp.sagepub.com/content/9/4/479.abstract http://ccp.sagepub.com/content/9/4/479.abstract http://www.m.sahajayogaportal.org/papers/manocha.pdf http://www.m.sahajayogaportal.org/papers/manocha.pdf (non-paywall link)
guiambros 12y ago
It's sad that the article didn't even mention exercise as a potential treatment for ADHD. The OP implies that kids will simply "grow out" of ADHD, drugs, or changing the environment may be enough. While these are valid solutions, exercise may be equally or even more effective. John J. Ratey, one of the pioneers of ADHD [1], recently wrote the excellent Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain[2]. In it, he explains in colorful details what happens in the brain, and why exercise may be the best treatment for a bunch of neurochemical imbalances - including ADHD. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driven_to_Distraction_(ADHD) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driven_to_Distraction_(ADHD) [2] http://www.amazon.com/Spark-exercise-improve-performance-brain-ebook/dp/B000SFD21Q/ http://www.amazon.com/Spark-exercise-improve-performance-bra...
- JimboOmega 12y ago
  Exercise is the miracle cure for everything, it would seem. Though it'd be a moderate help if we could agree on what "counts as exercise" - a 15 minute walk? Resistance training (how many sets/reps)? HIIT? The fads can be tough on the average person who just wants health.
  - ahknight 12y ago
    Clearly Crossfit solves everything.
  - guiambros 12y ago
    The book (Spark, link above) analyzes a handful of studies comparing the correlation between the type and duration of exercise, and its effects. In short: you won't see any long lasting benefits from a single 15min. The best results were achieved at 75-85% of your aerobic capacity, at least a couple of hours per week (total). You can also benefit from mixing simple aerobic exercises with others that require more coordination and fine movement of your body - martial arts, for example.
  - nitrogen 12y ago
    Swimming is a pretty good exercise for those who are bored by most other exercises. It may take six months or longer to see results from exercise, though, so it's hard to suggest exercise as a be-all-end-all fix.
austenallred 12y ago
I was diagnosed with ADHD at a very young age, and have been doing battle with my attention span for most of my life. I had only read a half dozen books all the way through when I graduated from High School, despite reading at a college reading level before I was out of elementary school and having started hundreds of them. The few books that I had read included Les Miserables and War and Peace, both of which I binge-read over a period of a few days, barely allowing myself to eat and rarely allowing myself to shower while I read them. The other ones were Frindle, Tangerine, The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time, and Catcher in the Rye. They were completely consuming. My addiction to video games was so intense and so severe that they were outright banned at my house. I was terrible at school, skipping more than half of my classes, but tested in the 99th percentile for standardized testing, learning a lot of what I should have learned in school by deduction as I was taking the test. That allowed me to get into college, which I later dropped out of, electing instead to buy a one-way ticket to China unsure if I would ever come back. Basically I was either 0% engaged in something or 110%, and if I wasn't engaged it felt like no matter how hard I fought I couldn't force myself to care. The turning point came when I was living in eastern Ukraine serving a Mormon mission. As per the mission rules, the only books we read were scriptural, we only used a computer for 30 minutes a week to email home, and in my particular mission I spent 90% of my time, every minute from 11 AM to 9 PM (except for a one-hour dinner) walking around, talking to people in the streets. I don't know if it was age or that I was finally rid of the many stimulants I used to have, but my mind just slowed down. I concentrated on everything, and, perhaps especially because I was speaking Russian, I could literally recall every word of every conversation I had. I sat down in the mornings and studied the intricacies of the Russian language for an hour straight without blinking an eye. I read the Old Testament cover to cover; something that would have made me literally pull my hair out just a year earlier. Then I went home. I got an iPhone, I got on the Internet, and it all came back. I try to limit the stimulants, (I've become very minimalistic), and I usually spend a lot of the morning with a calmer mind, but... I work online. I love the Internet. And I haven't yet been able to calm my mind like it was for those two years. It may be a matter of self-control - it probably is, but learning to program is incredibly painful. 10 minutes at a time sometimes with an incredible number of stops and starts. I don't know what the answer is, nor do I pretend that I can project my experience onto some greater understanding of what ADHD is, how to defeat it, or if it needs defeating, but the experience of feeling like I could finally do all the things I wanted to do because I didn't have anything else to stimulate me was fascinating, and it may be valuable to someone else.
dasmithii 12y ago
I'm not a fan of the perspective from which this article is written. Where the author writes "X is affected by ADHD", I'm inclined toward "X has a short attention span", or "X is hyperactive". The same perspective is taken by "victims" of ADHD, parents, and members of the media alike. I think we'd all be better off if we stopped speaking of these conditions as external forces acting upon the self, and instead, as mutable characteristics of the self.
- ahknight 12y ago
  What are you trying to say? Whatever it was, you kind of failed at it. Are you trying to toe the now-trite line that ADHD isn't a thing or something?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - dasmithii 12y ago
    I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm suggesting that it be considered a characteristic, and not an external force. This way, we don't grow dualistic, differentiating between oneself and one's brain. I guess it's the dualism here that I'm criticizing, not ADHD itself. See the fourth paragraph: "if you have the 'illness,' the real problem is that, to your brain, the world that you live in essentially feels not very interesting." This distinction between "you" and "your brain" is what bothers me.
    - ahknight 12y ago
      As someone with clinically-diagnosed "severe ADHD" I use that language all the time. I want to do something. My mind won't let me. It really is like a devil on my shoulder sometimes. "I want to read a book." "No." "Really! It's good! We've done this be-" "No. Look, shiny!" "Neat! Now, the book..." "No. We're going to watch a show now." Sigh.
      - rezistik 12y ago
whiddershins 12y ago
> Nor am I saying we that should not use stimulant medications like Adderall and Ritalin, which are safe and effective and very helpful to many kids with A.D.H.D. are they really safe and effective? I've taken these after being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and although I believe they are quite effective, I am really surprised they give these drugs to young children. I would not.
jamesisaac 12y ago
This is pretty much the same approach I took to largely overcome ADHD-like symptoms. I happen to believe that, if you've fallen into a routine, it's time to re-evaluate, anyway - so the tactic of engineering a more stimulating environment seems like a great idea regardless.
- ahknight 12y ago
  > overcome ADHD-like symptoms First, good for you -- really! Second, it's very important in discussions like this to qualify the target audience. A LOT of people have SOME of the symptoms, even to levels that impair their lives. NOT a lot of those people have full-blown ADHD. If you have SOME symptoms and things like that help you, that's fantastic. In my direct and social experiences, however, those with clinical ADHD diagnoses are assisted with such suggestions, but very rarely do they improve things to the point that there is no longer a significant impairment to that person's life. THAT is when medication is a good fit: clinical diagnosis, life and environment changes haven't significantly helped, and there is still a negative impairment on one's life.
  - jamesisaac 12y ago
    I realise there are others that likely have much more severe manifestations of the symptoms than me, but I don't think it's quite as black and white as you're making out. Surely the line you describe as "full-blown clinical ADHD" is somewhat arbitrary, when the symptoms exist on a spectrum? I didn't attempt to get myself diagnosed, but yes, it was a significant impairment towards my life, and yes, there still is quite a negative impairment. If I wanted to get routine tasks done with any kind of consistency, I may well have to look into medication. But instead, I structured my life around a very diverse range of stimulating past-times, and set myself up with very few obligations (e.g. no employer). This leaves a lifestyle of jumping between stimulating and challenging activities, which allows me to be a lot more productive, and achieve much more, than I ever did when I was in formal education or working a repetitive office job. > In my direct and social experiences, however, those with clinical ADHD diagnoses are assisted with such suggestions, but very rarely do they improve things to the point that there is no longer a significant impairment to that person's life. How far did they take the suggestions? Did they quit their job and start their own startup? While I agree that medication is probably the best solution for certain types of lifestyle, I do think adjusting one's environment is an underrated and underexplored solution, that could do with more research.
heurist 12y ago
So how do you do this in software? Consulting? Startup? I'm a couple years into my first software development job out of school and barely get through the moderate amount of work that's assigned to me right now. I'm afraid of switching to another development job where more would be expected of me (consulting! startups!). Without having these problems under control I may not be reliable despite my talent. Over the last month or so I've been reading up on product management and it sounds like a good fit. Interact with people, track markets, discover problems, craft creative solutions, have other people figure out the exact implementation... Lately I've been trying to discover broad problems and their solutions in my current position, and it seems to be helping (helps me feel like I'm actually contributing, at least). I don't know any product managers to talk to about their day-to-day stuff though. Has anyone with ADHD found that to be a good career path?
- ahknight 12y ago
  I tried consulting. I couldn't self-motivate to self-imposed deadlines. Barely averted disaster. Never again. Tried a startup. Same problem. Worse result. Now I startup surf as a developer, but only to interesting projects. If I work on a boring project, I'm going to wind up behind schedule. One I learned that about myself, I adjusted my job searches to fit (as much as possible). Project management? I suppose if I weren't the one actually doing it that would work. But if you switch early on, you're stuck with it. I'd get a few more years of software on your resume before bailing. That gives you experience with various kinds of scheduling and PMs and a better idea of the PM you'll want to be.
  - heurist 12y ago
    Thanks, I agree it would be best to get a few more years under my belt. How did you get into startup surfing?
    - ahknight 12y ago
      Got hired by one. They didn't have enough people so I added about a dozen acronyms to the resume. After it cratered I picked up a job based on those acronyms. Rinse and repeat.
kurage 12y ago
I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 12. Classic, "textbook" example of one. I felt like it was a curse until I was about 20. I was put on Focalin, Ritalin, Adderall, Vyvanse over those years.. they all made me calm and focused. Without my meds, I used to live in my head all day, theorizing how the universe and neurons work.. playing with ideas, twisting shapes in my mind. I was also prone to depression, anxiety, and I hated dealing with emotions. Then one day, when I was about 23, I did LSD and cannabis together. My whole world came crashing down, and I realized that ADHD was a label that limited my true potential, and made me judgmental of "neurotypicals". After my trip, I realized that I lost about 75% of my visual-spatial ability (I felt out of it for a year or so as I missed having that ability), but I also felt more at peace, open-minded, and in the present moment. I also became a "doer", rather than a "thinker". I do not use any meds at all now; I meditate in the morning for at least 20 minutes, and try to run at least once a week. With that said, I still like variety, and am a jack of all trades. Last time I did freelance, I loved doing marketing research, design, coding, programming and social media.
- ahknight 12y ago
  That's an interesting story. I've read that even one use of LSD can alter the brain (similar to this: http://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personality-long-term.html http://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personality...).
  - kurage 12y ago
    I took a small dose of shrooms few months ago; it made me closer to nature, and it got rid of my porn/fapping addiction. I really think that psychedelics have the potential to "round" people out.
- ashleyp 12y ago
  Really interesting and I've had some eye opening experiences with this. May I ask, do you still play with ideas/how the universe works etc? Do you miss that at all? Also, have you read "The power of now"?
myrandomcomment 12y ago
I take my 54mg of Concerta (time released Ritalin - methylphenidate - ie, pure government speed) every morning. 6th startup now? They hit about 100 people and I move on. Wonder why? Job wise in the startup I am the "fixer". The get it done guy. I wonder why?
lnanek2 12y ago
The article wonders at the huge increase in diagnoses that mysteriously disappear in adulthood, but if the author had spent some time at college recently he'd know that Adderall is seen as THE way to ace tests and study more. It isn't difficult to walk into a doctors office and act and say the right way and things to get your prescription after you get tired of buying it off friends, either.
oddtarball 12y ago
This article's premise is built on an incorrect understanding of "treating" or "fixing" or "losing" (symptoms). If: baseline x is underwhelming to the point of painful boredom Else: baseline y is higher and therefore satisfyingly stimulating Then the fundamental problem of a lacking reward system for "normal" (x) baseline activity remains unresolved. I have ADHD and decided to try medication for the first time only a few years ago (in my 20's). Sure, keeping things "interesting" and "new" can trick one's mind into paying additional attention towards the daily grind, but not for one second does that mean that ADHD would be resolved. To make a more clear point, let's apply this thinking to another context: Murderers would be cured if there weren't anyone to murder, right? No. You're supposed to solve problems, not symptoms.
- warfangle 12y ago
  That's the thing, I think. Treatment (both cognitive behavioral therapy and chemical) has enabled me to get on with my life in so many ways. It's not about getting rid of the symptoms - they're still there. It's about knowing when your symptoms are getting the better of you -- and taking agency over them. If my brain is a wall of TV's all tuned to different channels with the volume turned to 11, adderal finally gave me a clicker to be able to turn all but one off. Or, at least, mute. And in many ways, I'm glad I'm not asymptomatic on medication: many of the downsides of ADHD can actually be huge, huge upsides. I thought it would kill my creative problem solving, going on meds: if anything, it's put it into overdrive. Instead of stashing something in my subconscious and hoping a solution percolates up a few minutes, hours, days, or weeks later ... I can pick up the puzzle, look at it, really concentrate and think about it. It's a life changing thing to realize what it's like to actually ruminate on a problem. On the other hand, I still make the zany off the wall connections between two problems that let me come up with a solution to both of them. Instead of hoping for the luck of the draw, though, I can stack the deck.
  - oddtarball 12y ago
    I 100% agree. People think ADD/ADHD is "resolved" on meds, but it's not the case. They started me on 27mg of Concerta, then 54mg, then I was (thankfully) moved to Vyvanse and titrated my way up to 60mg. The story hasn't changed - it's still valuable to leverage the downsides into strength. An ADD/ADHD brain is certainly a chaotic one, but going on meds has enabled me to do better planning/execution and to actually complete tasks. Your wall of TVs analogy is great - I often describe my head as the similar murmur you hear from a crowd. Thoughts are like white noise where it's nearly impossible to pick the right one out, let alone stay with it for a while when it's so easy to hear everything else on top of it. Not to sound skitzo, but I think the meds do a great job of quieting that noise. While medicated, I have the ability to plan a task or project, execute each step, and actually stick with it to the end. It's still possible to get off task, and perhaps worse if you do (since then you're REALLY focused on being off task), but the meds still help me think. But that is where it stops. They don't resolve problems - they provide most of the tools needed to change the way you think so you can work on resolving them yourself. Now, to the popular point of diet and exercise; I'm sure it's a mix of improved medication delivery, the natural stress relief, and the endorphin benefit that comes with it - but eating well and regularly exercising seems to amplify the medication's benefit by 15-20%. Those two things are marginally helpful without meds, along with several other "natural remedies" that I have tried, but I think a combination of all of the above is key. My original point was just that the article makes it sound like symptoms should be treated via introducing new parts to the equation which ultimate distract people from boring situations. Yet, ADD/ADHD in its TRUE FORM works 100% independent of one's desire to pay attention. The argument of "BUT VIDEO GAMES ARE FINE SO IT'S CLEARLY CHOICE" is 100% falsified by Dr. Thomas E Brown's research. He provides such excellent insight - I am so fortunate to have met him. I'll close this novel of a post with an analogy made by Dr. Brown when we met: "Picture a massive old wooden sailboat with dozens of crew frantically fighting to pull the sails, keep up with the demands of their job, etc. Non-ADD/ADHD folk can get a benefit from medication, but it just speeds up both the captain and crew. ADD/ADHD folk, on the other hand, are instead sailing through a terrible storm at a much faster pace than normal and can hardly see - but the crew still keep up with their jobs. The captain is the problem. In this case, the captain is the only one sped up by the meds, and suddenly, no matter how chaotic and messy that voyage is, it's all under control."
Xcelerate 12y ago
Well huh. I'd never thought I had ADHD, just a complete inability to motivate myself to do things. However, the descriptions in this article describe me perfectly! Everything seems dull, I'm constantly seeking new experiences, the idea of a daily routine terrifies me (even though my father keeps encouraging me to develop one), but I can play piano for an entire day.
- ahknight 12y ago
  Nailed it. But do yourself a favor and don't self-label. Go talk to a professional for a while and see what their take is. By which I mean an LCW or psychologist, not a GP. :)
  - furyofantares 12y ago
    LCW?
    - ahknight 12y ago
      Licensed Clinical Worker. Therapist.
- jacques_chester 12y ago
  Ask to see a psychiatrist. A proper diagnosis will require a history going back to childhood. I'm 33, I was diagnosed about a year ago. It's made a positive difference on my life.
  - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
    >It's made a positive difference on my life. // Because you're now under a regime of medication, or ...?
    - jacques_chester 12y ago
      Ritalin. Also trialled dextroamphetamine (worked badly for me) and straterra (did nothing). Ritalin helps a lot. It's not magic. Exercise and quality sleep are important too, but were not enough by themselves.
dasmithii 12y ago
Here's an audio snippet of Alan Watt's perspective on this issue. In general, he sees modern mental illnesses as personality traits. Thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN8B8jMuDZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN8B8jMuDZE
- ahknight 12y ago
  Willfully ignorant of science.
  - dasmithii 12y ago
    How so? Watts doesn't deny the differences between those affected by ADHD and those who are not. He argues that these differences are best understood as personality traits and not products of an affliction. This isn't a matter of ignorance, but interpretation of and reaction to scientific discoveries.
    - ahknight 12y ago
      There is no success because of ADHD. There is success despite having ADHD. It's not a personality trait that I cannot physically do something I want to do and need to do without medication and, frankly, I'm sick of people who don't experience it offering new theories on it as if they have some grand insight into it. Get a head injury that breaks your executive functions. Join us. Then try to offer it up as a personality trait.
      - dasmithii 12y ago
        Are you better off because of your diagnosis? And why?
      - ashleyp 12y ago
        Love a lot of your posts here you're very vocal and well explain. I'm an ADHDer, software developer, avid researcher, fascinated with neuroscience and cognitive science and studied modules of it in university. But I sense you've been reading a lot from Barkley? And Barkley unfortunately can be closed minded(his brother had ADHD and died in a car crash so it's understandable he's negative towards it). We've seen in neuroscience that certain characteristics in ADHD, i.e lack of inhibition can lead to positives. The brain compensates. Honestly, I feel in the next decade ADHD will be looked upon as a subset of personality/neurological traits, more in line with how as Aspergers is been seen nowadays.
mvlad 12y ago
"In short, people with A.D.H.D. may not have a disease, so much as a set of behavioral traits that don’t match the expectations of our contemporary culture."
- Argorak 12y ago
  On a positive note, there are A.D.(H.)D. symptoms that do have upsides and can be worked around very cleverly. Still, there are some that squarely fall into the problematic kind, for example the problem to go back to a task when disturbed (instead of Task A -> disturbed with Task B -> Task A, you go Task A -> Task B -> Task C) or the tendency to avoid mentally taxing task.
ajcarpy2005 12y ago
Essential Fatty Acids play a role. It's not productive to focus on just one causal factor normally but EFA deficiency is quite common because of: 1. maligning of dietary fats 2. high cost of fish relative to other foods 3. time and effort required to cook eggs in morning and the tremendous marketing investments in easier but ultimately unsustainable 'foods' It's a shame that so much knowledge about human health goes to waste because of either ignorance or misplaced priorities.
- 54mf 12y ago
 [Citation Needed]
 - ajcarpy2005 12y ago
 I'm not against citations but obviously it would be nice if we were amply schooled in the biological functions of dietary nutrients so that the knowledge was just more tacit. On some level it feels like you're asking me to link to a proof that a2 + b2 = c2 solves for the hypotenuse of a triangle. To learn about EFA's and their general function: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid Here's a start: CONCLUSION: The ratio of membrane omega-3 to omega-6 PUFAs can be modulated by dietary intake. This ratio influences neurotransmission and prostaglandin formation, processes that are vital in the maintenance of normal brain function. Source: http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/12728744 http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/12728744 Some medical observations about EFA deficiency symptoms include: Symptoms of omega-3 fatty acid deficiency include fatigue, poor memory, dry skin, heart problems, mood swings or depression, and poor circulation. It is important to have the proper ratio of omega-3 and omega-6 (another essential fatty acid) in the diet. Source: http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/omega3-fatty-acids http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/omega3-fatty... Notice the fatigue and poor memory. Sources studying links between EFA's & ADHD: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584601002548 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584601... (positive correlation found) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574158 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574158 (this study doesn't include the term ADHD at all but it does speak of the need for EFA's in hippocampal neurogenesis, the common clinical finding of hippocampal atrophy in depressed patients, and the finding that EFA administration gives a statistically significant improvement in depressed patients in clinical trials. The reason this matters for our purposes is because the hippocampus Hippocampus and amygdala morphology in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. The enlarged hippocampus in children and adolescents with ADHD may represent a compensatory response to the presence of disturbances in the perception of time, temporal processing (eg, delay aversion), and stimulus seeking associated with ADHD. Disrupted connections between the amygdala and orbitofrontal cortex may contribute to behavioral disinhibition. Our findings suggest involvement of the limbic system in the pathophysiology of ADHD. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16818869 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16818869 OK, admittedly, I didn't know or expect to find that people with ADHD often have an !ENLARGED Hippocampus. This doesn't mean that EFA's aren't part of the problem/solution equation though. Just knowing that the amygdala is involved should also cause us to form hypotheses about traumatic memories and anxiety type issues being co-involved with ADHD (struggle with learning, self-control of behavior) Dietary studies are indicated to determine if essential fatty acid supplementation can influence central nervous system serotonin and dopamine metabolism and modify impulsive behaviors related to these neurotransmitters. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715354 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715354 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18019397 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18019397 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15925295 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15925295 The brain is sufficiently complex and interconnected that when you see problems like ADHD (which generally seem to be very treatable/preventable/reversible with certain dietary choices rather than inherent structural problems from birth/genetics) strongly expressed in a person then you can be pretty sure that a large portion of nutrients which relate to brain development and health are either deficient or otherwise not being metabolized normally. One of the first things IMO that should happen when trying to provide treatment for patients with any disease should be to question them about their diet and emphatically educate them on the critical and irreplaceable role of the different nutrients and how a lack of them may be effecting them. (commonly green vegetables, seafood, healthy fats, Magnesium...etc.) The diet of most Americans in the last few decades may have increased in calories but I think it's become less diverse and inclusive in essential nutrition. This is arguably the cause of the rise in behavioral and mood disorders among our youth.
frozenport 12y ago
A harder question: If ADHD isn't real but the drugs do something with utility what should be societies stance? If somebody wants to, or needs to do work that requires more concentration, how do we justify denying them the opportunity to better themselves? Much like giving welfare under the guise of disability, this discussion reflects yesterday s ethics on today's questions.
mercurialshark 12y ago
I'm glad the article spoke to specific regional recruitment issues in the brain and evolutionary advantages. As someone who was diagnosed at a young age and retain the condition through adulthood, it wasn't until I understood the evolutionary advantages to not being able to quiet regions of the brain not involved in the specific activity - that I learned how to self-learn. Long story short, it's not just the testing conditions in which it's beneficial to not be in a class-room setting, but the learning phase too. Essentially, I'm completely worthless trying to absorb new information in a room full of people. It's nearly impossible to not be conscious of those around me. However, at home - where I can control environmental factors - everything changes. I am not forced to be reactive and can happily concentrate - even with other portions of the brain remaining active (listening, wondering, whatever).
rayalez 12y ago
It's weird and frustrating that people label many abnormalities as "diseases". When I read a list of ADHD symptoms I keep asking myself - how is that a bad thing? Being bored doing unenjoyable tasks, hating homework, "Not seem to listen when spoken to",Struggle to follow instructions,Dash around, touching or playing with anything and everything in sight, Have trouble sitting still during school and homework, Be constantly in motion, Have difficulty doing quiet tasks or activities.... These sound like symptoms of being a kid...
- funkyy 12y ago
  I knew a kid that had ADHD. Unfortunately it was just a label - way for a kid to get everything. The kid didn't had ADHD imo, he was just spoiled and his parents were failing to do any parenting. The kid would eat whole mountain of sweets, drink cola all day, play games and scream and cry whenever he was prohibited something. In school he wasnt interested in learning and he basically would do nothing or play portable games all day. He would also not care for others and his needs would be always #1 before anything else. Parents were really protective of him so they would fight with teachers whenever they would try to do something about it. The kid seemed to be pretty smart and he got all this figured out and used it a lot. But whenever he would be with people he didnt knew in a room, or with no-bullshit people, he would be actually quiet and behaving very good. SOME ADHD cases sounds like just putting label on failed parenting to shut parents and avoid being sued by them for not doing any proper parenting.
  - DonHopkins 12y ago
    Somebody was reading a list of ADHD warning signs to me from some self help book, which all perfectly described a mutual friend of ours: things like "interrupts other people while they're talking", "doesn't return phone calls", "no respect for authority", "always wants to be the center of attention", etc. I asked, "Maybe they're just an asshole? Isn't it possible to be an asshole without having ADHD?" Oh, all right, I'll admit: it was really all about me. ;)
    - funkyy 12y ago
jvdh 12y ago
I have only experienced ADHD second hand, my partner has been diagnosed with it years ago, and a good friend of mine as well. I recognise the "coping mechanisms" with alcohol, and the frustration of getting mundane things done. The article suggests that the intense concentration or "hyperfocus" they have when they find something interesting can be used to their advantage. Both my partner and friend have gotten into occupations where they can do this. But there will always be mundane things that have to get done as well. Everyone has to pay taxes, and has to watch their spending. Few people like to do this, but almost everyone has to. Having a thrilling job does not alleviate you from these things. So yes, it can probably help somewhat, but it can't "fix" ADHD completely.
- Swannie 12y ago
  Yes. Paperwork, taxes, expenses, etc. sigh. No amount of structure can remove the fact that they are inherently extremely unrewarding, and even staring out the window offers more rewards. The stick just doesn't seem to work for my ADD inclined mind - never has.
wander55 12y ago
I just read the article and all of the comments and I am still on the toilet... Does that level of hyperfocus mean I have ADHD?
- ahknight 12y ago
  Either that or you're constipated.
adhd_anon 12y ago
I have severe inattentive ADHD. 1. There is absolutely no sympathy: The problem with ADHD is that it is a disorder of degree not kind. If I had epilepsy or cancer or had some of my limbs missing then people around me would be supportive and understanding. But not ADHD. Everybody's mind wanders. Everyone would like to only do interesting things. Everyone forgets things from time to time. But, the problem is the degree to which these afflict people with ADHD. We don't expect someone without legs to walk normally or properly. Yet, when it comes to the mind we have little patience. Somehow, we expect people to get their act together. We label them lazy, unmotivated and indisciplined. A product of poor parenting. We get frustrated that they are not reaching their full potential. In a way, having ADHD in 2014 is like being Gay or having an interracial marriage in the 60s or 70s. Ignorant cynical judgmental people assume that you can will your way out of ADHD through discipline and will power. 2. ADHD does give you super powers: Insane creativity. The ability to think outside the box. The ability to make off the wall zany connections. Always looking for small advantages and using creativity to your advantage. I use mnemonics to remember things. I hired people overseas who follow up on everything I do. I built products that are on track to doing well. When I do succeed, people write it off as being lucky. I wish I could write more. But I am actually supposed to be doing something else right now.
- chimeracoder 12y ago
  I've found that this webcomic does a reasonable job at illustrating that to people who don't understand mental illness: http://www.robot-hugs.com/helpful-advice/ http://www.robot-hugs.com/helpful-advice/ In the example you list, it'd be like telling the first person, "Everyone feels bloated after eating a big meal - that doesn't mean you need to stay in bed all day when you think you have 'food poisoning'". I agree that it's frustrating to read articles like this that trivialize mental disorders and downplay the struggles that they can actually cause for people. EDIT: Changed comic link to original source
- eclipsor 12y ago
  Recently diagnosed myself, I spent years and years trying to control it via willpower. The real turning point when I realized I needed to see someone was a few months ago. I found that hobbies I loved (gaming, programming, etc) would no longer hold my attention and I was compulsively getting up and wandering to the kitchen/bathroom just because my brain felt like it was frying. This is extremely hard to explain, because I'm not slacking to get off of work and do something fun like everyone else, I was compulsively slacking because very little would grab me.
SteventM8 12y ago
Now give me some
amelius 12y ago
I think I'm having the exact reverse problem. My focus at work is very good, but I feel anxiety levels going up during the day. Drinking coffee sends my anxiety through the roof. Also I'm often so concentrated on things happening inside my head, that I forget to pay attention to the outside world. This is especially problematic when talking to other people (that talk slowly), or in traffic. Probably these symptoms are not so bad when compared to ADHD, but at times I just wish there was a (preferably natural) medicine to deal with this.
- ericabiz 12y ago
  You may want to look into the PI variant of ADHD (primarily inattentive.) It's the "daydreamer" type, but you aren't hyperactive. See more details at http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_predominantly_inattentive http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivi... It isn't unusual to have generalized anxiety or a specific anxiety disorder in addition to ADHD. Definitely see a psychiatrist to get an official diagnosis--it will help you feel better just knowing what you have. Also, I'd recommend seeing a doctor and getting a physical done too. You may have something physical that is causing the anxiety. I have both ADHD and anxiety. I went to a psychiatrist and got an ADHD diagnosis. In addition, blood tests plus followup tests done by my doctor showed Graves' disease--a thyroid autoimmune disorder that causes anxiety. Having both of these diagnosed and seeking treatment has provided me with a lot of relief. I strongly recommend you do the same.
bayesianhorse 12y ago
This unscientific narrative is dangerous. ADHD can go away over the years, without medication. But you can't predict it, and there is no evidence for particular causes of "remission". More stimulation is hardly the answer to the social problems arising from ADHD, to drug addictions or a myriad of other problems patients have. It certainly doesn't work against depression, and good luck curing 5-10% of children just by "stimulating" them more. Coping with ADHD means improving Attention and Focus. The single most effective way is medication. Additionally mindfulness/awareness meditation has been shown to work. Other activities like martial arts or dancing may have similar effects, but less reliably so.
ohyes 12y ago
I've never been diagnosed but I'm bored all of the time. I'm almost 30. I've been fairly successful in jobs where I'm learning new stuff all the time. Is it possible I'm ADD? Edit: I got bored halfway through the article.
- adhdthrowawy 12y ago
  Do you find routines to be near impossible to establish / follow (eating breakfast, waking up within the same two hour period, taking a shower, etc.)? Are you unable to remember anything without a constantly visible list / alerting system? Do certain irrelavant noises cause you to instantly lose all concentration? Do you have a tendency to forget to pay bills for months while racking up several hundred or thousand dollars in fees? Do your relationships suffer as you often go months without remembering to talk to close friends? Are you usually 5 - 10 minutes late for all meetings and social functions due to an inability to accurately predict durations and intervals of time? Maybe then!
  - ohyes 12y ago
    Yes, this is basically all descriptive of me :( the relationships thing hits the nail on the head and has been a recurring problem.
justifier 12y ago
i come from a generation where adhd is vocalised using a cash register chime, so i aggressively avoid acknowledging the diagnosis stead the syndromes > My patient “treated” his [distraction'boredom'frustration'creative depletion] simply by changing the conditions of his work environment from one that was highly routine to one that was varied and unpredictable. All of a sudden, his greatest liabilities — his impatience, short attention span and restlessness — became assets. i developed a similar work environment.. i called it distracting my distractions i often have multiple projects i want to work on with varied goals and requirements and if i start to lull while working i just shift to another project i used to do this when i was a younger when reading i would have many books open and scattered on my floor, all open to different pages my friends might start reading a book at the same time as me and finish the book in one week what took me a four weeks to finish, but after that four weeks was over i would have finished reading three other books as well, each finishing at the end of that four weeks books are really easy to build productive workflows around: you can immediately determine speed and pace based on time it takes to read the second page and how long the book is; with projects it is more difficult, i may get stuck on one function for hours and another will come out of me effortlessly, it is a now a matter of correctly recognising when i've begun to sludge signalling i should move to another project most recently i have been taking breaks from work every thirty minutes or so, unless i am whistling through something, and get up and stretch, while giving my back and butt the rest i try to analyse my progress since the last stretch and determine if a project shift would do me good
darrenkopp 12y ago
For the past few years I've taken both Adderall and Vyvanse, with the past 2 years being Vyvanse. I thought I would be taking these drugs for the rest of my life if I wanted to be successful, because when I didn't take them, I could not focus on work tasks at all. However, the "cost" of these drugs for me was that I couldn't turn off. I was driven from the time I woke up to the time I went to bed. My social life definitely suffered. So, as I started a new job this year in January, I decided to make a clean break. I quit Vyvanse cold turkey and started a new job. I've been doing exceptionally. I never thought this could happen. Thinking back on the issue just yesterday I was telling a colleague that I thought this was likely because I must have been bored with the tasks at my previous job, and I've found all the new tasks to be interesting enough to bring out what I consider great performance from myself, though not the insane amount of performance I was doing on Vyvanse. Anecdotal at best, but I independently came to the same conclusions as this article, for whatever it's worth.
emcarey 12y ago
I'm an adult woman with adhd and it's definitely been an advantage as an entrepreneur. When I hyper focus on our company, brilliant things happen because I can think out of the box and my passion and obsession for our product has my undivided attention. Needing to constantly shift work environments, go for walks, and multitask has worked well for me in my startup life. However, in my former corporate life, it was at times crippling and embarrassing. I really appreciated this article because it elevates the need for those with adhd to choose the work environment best fit for their behavioral needs and hopefully sheds light to a wider audience that adhd is in fact 'a real thing'. In a previous corporate role, when i spoke to HR about my daily struggle working in an office environment with tv's on and lots of cubes with loud people talking, they didn't take me seriously and just thought it was a 'millennial' problem. I had to work saturday nights and sundays just to complete my work because during the work week it was so difficult to focus with all the surrounding noise. I lied to my manager about all my weekend work because she down played the very realness my adhd had on my ability to focus like I was making it up. I hope this article brings to light that many people do suffer from adhd and to take their work environment requests seriously. I hope it also encourages those with adhd to be more vocal about it.
- kpennell 12y ago
  I worked at an office park in the SF peninsula for a year and see now why I was the guy always going out exploring. I'd ride my bike around, found out we could get on the roof, checked out all the wetlands surroundings, and asked a whole lot of questions on Quora. Haha, I was the wacky energetic guy. Some of the stuff I had to do just about bored me to tears.

214 points by elijahparker 12y ago

Excerpt from article: Another patient of mine, a 28-year-old man, was having a lot of trouble at his desk job in an advertising firm. Having to sit at a desk for long hours and focus his attention on one task was nearly impossible. He would multitask, listening to music and texting, while “working” to prevent activities from becoming routine. Eventually he quit his job and threw himself into a start-up company, which has him on the road in constantly changing environments. He is much happier and — little surprise — has lost his symptoms of A.D.H.D.

ahknight 12y ago
Having worked at an ad agency and startups, if you can find an interesting startup you're going to be in a much easier place when it comes to motivation. It may not solve everything, but it'll make things easier.

barsonme 12y ago

I'd say one of the causes for over-medication is the lack of willingness of both parents and children to work on ways to succeed without use of medication. I have (fairly bad) ADHD and my doctor did give me medicine, but only half the light dosage of Strattera, which isn't a stimulant. Long story short, I ended up hating feeling comatose from the medicine so much I began to work through my ADHD by structuring my life and finding things I was actually interested in. But it would've been so easy to give me some Adderall and let me just do my thing, which I believe a lot of parents and doctors do. It's the quick and easy route, but arguably worse in the long run when the children grow up to be adults dependent on managing their ADHD with a crutch instead of on their own.

rwbcxrz 12y ago
I'm glad that worked for you. I was diagnosed with ADHD not long ago. Before my diagnosis, I was about to quit a job that I actually liked for the second time. I like my job. I liked my last job. I like programming, I liked my coworkers. Given a challenge, I was always able to rise to the challenge. Given something more mundane, I lost all motivation and capability. For years, I had blamed myself. I thought I was lazy and a shitty person. I was prone to binge eating and drinking. I was depressed as hell. Most people can't restructure their lives to work around their symptoms. I don't feel like I should have to. I certainly don't want to.
- molsongolden 12y ago
  Are you managing with medication now? I wonder if those who are able to restructure are lower on a spectrum. Your situation sounds similar to mine and attempts to restructure have been difficult. I haven't used medication for years because I bought into the idea that it would limit me and I could overcome if I just work hard enough but finally I've realized it just feels like every single thing is harder than it needs to be. I feel like I've wasted a lot of time beating my head against the wall.
iandanforth 12y ago
I would be interested in reading a longer blog post on your process. Any chance you've written one?
silencio 12y ago
I'm not sure I agree with calling drugs a "crutch". Nobody in their right mind would tell me that Singulair or Dulera is a crutch for my asthma. Nobody would call albuterol inhalers overprescribed or asthma overdiagnosed either. My allergist always has to tell me not to work my life around my triggers past a certain point too. Yet I hear it all the time about the Adderall and Vyvanse I used to take, and about ADHD. All. the. time. I have pretty bad ADHD too. My parents didn't want to put me on any meds, so I learned all the coping mechanisms the hard and expensive way _and_ feel that I lost out on a lot of opportunities when I was younger as a result. It's the only childhood issue I still hold a grudge over. When I could finally do whatever I wanted, I felt like a huge burden was lifted with meds because I never stopped struggling with said coping mechanisms anyway. Including stuff like "take a shower" and "eat lunch" on my daily-todo HabitRPG checklist. Unfortunately I'm trying to get pregnant and had to get off almost everything, so now I'm back to digging myself into a hole, getting frustrated with even my non-standard and fun life. If it wasn't for the fact that I have a partner to rely on, I probably would be telling my obgyn to go fuck herself about her judgment call regarding non-stimulant ADHD meds known to be safe. ADHD is a huge negative impact on my life, and I'd even qualify it as being worse than something potentially life-threatening like asthma >:P Obviously not everyone is the same, and abuse is definitely a problem. That doesn't equate to a crutch IMO. Not to mention there's a million other problems in the way, one in the US being a lack of accessible and affordable quality health care so people with ADHD can easily get help with non-medication options...
- ahknight 12y ago
  I watched a talk by Dr. Barkley a while back and he had a wonderful way of phrasing it (paraphrased): "Suppose you had a person in a wheelchair who needed in your building. Would you build a ramp and then after 30 days take it down, saying 'Well, by now they should have figured out how to get into the building.' NO! It's a remedy for a handicap. Neither should you deny medication to someone with another kind of handicap when they need it." After I let that sink in I suddenly didn't give a crap about the anti-pharma crowd. I have what I need and it helps me, so fuck 'em. And yes, without it the daily routine isn't one. Completely there.
  - 12y ago
warfangle 12y ago
Strattera usually isn't the first drug chosen, because it doesn't work for everyone. It primarily works on norepinephrine as a reuptake inhibitor. It's basically in the same class as bupropion (which is sometimes also prescribed off label for ADHD, though it's usually used as an antidepressant for those with cyclothymia or to aid in smoking cessation). Ritalin works by inhibiting the re-uptake of dopamine and norepinephrine. Amphetamine (adderal) works on dopamine, norepinephrine and seratonin. Not only is it a re-uptake inhibitor, but it actually "reverses the polarity" on neuron vesicles, causing them to dump their loads. For some with ADHD, strattera works just fine. For others, strattera will make them feel like a zombie (or do nothing at all), while as little as 5mg of amphetamine salts a day will be sufficient. A lot of folks with ADHD do just fine without medication. And others struggle with the thought of taking "the easy way out" for decades, and end up with a shitload of additional problems - primarily in the self confidence zone. Some only need the medication to get things back on track, establish routines and so forth ... but others really do need it. Chronically untreated ADHD is painful, debilitating, embarrassing, and so unnecessary.
- Kudos 12y ago
  > Strattera usually isn't the first drug chosen, because it doesn't work for everyone. Strattera is supposedly the first avenue of treatment in Europe follwed by stimulants, the reverse of the US.
  - barsonme 12y ago
    Oh, that's interesting. I live in the U.S.!

pulkitpulkit 12y ago

Interesting that the article goes down the route of providing more stimulus to help treat ADHD.. wonder if there's also a case for reducing our need for more stimuli (e.g. with mindfulness or meditation) or whether that's just too against the grain of how we are moving as a society (in to a more digital, multi-tasked world)

ahknight 12y ago
That's a whole different topic, even though to an outsider they may seem related by the stimuli concept. ADHD is an impulse control disorder. Increasing the stimulus levels of positive things around such a person induces a natural focus to those things. Reducing stimuli would alternately induce sleep or painful boredom that will express itself in highly random and chaotic ways after a short time. Sometimes I think it would be a good idea to turn everything off and read a book. When I wake up after trying that I realize how many times I've tried it before and it's at least a few days before I get the idea again...
toodles1234 12y ago
> wonder if there's also a case for reducing our need for more stimuli (e.g. with mindfulness or meditation) A study was done in Australia ten years ago on a type of meditation that encourages you to be more mindful to see what effect it can have on ADHD. Children were able to reduce or even cut out their medication completely after completing the meditation program. http://ccp.sagepub.com/content/9/4/479.abstract http://ccp.sagepub.com/content/9/4/479.abstract http://www.m.sahajayogaportal.org/papers/manocha.pdf http://www.m.sahajayogaportal.org/papers/manocha.pdf (non-paywall link)

guiambros 12y ago

It's sad that the article didn't even mention exercise as a potential treatment for ADHD. The OP implies that kids will simply "grow out" of ADHD, drugs, or changing the environment may be enough. While these are valid solutions, exercise may be equally or even more effective. John J. Ratey, one of the pioneers of ADHD [1], recently wrote the excellent Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain[2]. In it, he explains in colorful details what happens in the brain, and why exercise may be the best treatment for a bunch of neurochemical imbalances - including ADHD. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driven_to_Distraction_(ADHD) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driven_to_Distraction_(ADHD) [2] http://www.amazon.com/Spark-exercise-improve-performance-brain-ebook/dp/B000SFD21Q/ http://www.amazon.com/Spark-exercise-improve-performance-bra...

JimboOmega 12y ago
Exercise is the miracle cure for everything, it would seem. Though it'd be a moderate help if we could agree on what "counts as exercise" - a 15 minute walk? Resistance training (how many sets/reps)? HIIT? The fads can be tough on the average person who just wants health.
- ahknight 12y ago
  Clearly Crossfit solves everything.
- guiambros 12y ago
  The book (Spark, link above) analyzes a handful of studies comparing the correlation between the type and duration of exercise, and its effects. In short: you won't see any long lasting benefits from a single 15min. The best results were achieved at 75-85% of your aerobic capacity, at least a couple of hours per week (total). You can also benefit from mixing simple aerobic exercises with others that require more coordination and fine movement of your body - martial arts, for example.
- nitrogen 12y ago
  Swimming is a pretty good exercise for those who are bored by most other exercises. It may take six months or longer to see results from exercise, though, so it's hard to suggest exercise as a be-all-end-all fix.

austenallred 12y ago

I was diagnosed with ADHD at a very young age, and have been doing battle with my attention span for most of my life. I had only read a half dozen books all the way through when I graduated from High School, despite reading at a college reading level before I was out of elementary school and having started hundreds of them. The few books that I had read included Les Miserables and War and Peace, both of which I binge-read over a period of a few days, barely allowing myself to eat and rarely allowing myself to shower while I read them. The other ones were Frindle, Tangerine, The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time, and Catcher in the Rye. They were completely consuming. My addiction to video games was so intense and so severe that they were outright banned at my house. I was terrible at school, skipping more than half of my classes, but tested in the 99th percentile for standardized testing, learning a lot of what I should have learned in school by deduction as I was taking the test. That allowed me to get into college, which I later dropped out of, electing instead to buy a one-way ticket to China unsure if I would ever come back. Basically I was either 0% engaged in something or 110%, and if I wasn't engaged it felt like no matter how hard I fought I couldn't force myself to care. The turning point came when I was living in eastern Ukraine serving a Mormon mission. As per the mission rules, the only books we read were scriptural, we only used a computer for 30 minutes a week to email home, and in my particular mission I spent 90% of my time, every minute from 11 AM to 9 PM (except for a one-hour dinner) walking around, talking to people in the streets. I don't know if it was age or that I was finally rid of the many stimulants I used to have, but my mind just slowed down. I concentrated on everything, and, perhaps especially because I was speaking Russian, I could literally recall every word of every conversation I had. I sat down in the mornings and studied the intricacies of the Russian language for an hour straight without blinking an eye. I read the Old Testament cover to cover; something that would have made me literally pull my hair out just a year earlier. Then I went home. I got an iPhone, I got on the Internet, and it all came back. I try to limit the stimulants, (I've become very minimalistic), and I usually spend a lot of the morning with a calmer mind, but... I work online. I love the Internet. And I haven't yet been able to calm my mind like it was for those two years. It may be a matter of self-control - it probably is, but learning to program is incredibly painful. 10 minutes at a time sometimes with an incredible number of stops and starts. I don't know what the answer is, nor do I pretend that I can project my experience onto some greater understanding of what ADHD is, how to defeat it, or if it needs defeating, but the experience of feeling like I could finally do all the things I wanted to do because I didn't have anything else to stimulate me was fascinating, and it may be valuable to someone else.

dasmithii 12y ago

I'm not a fan of the perspective from which this article is written. Where the author writes "X is affected by ADHD", I'm inclined toward "X has a short attention span", or "X is hyperactive". The same perspective is taken by "victims" of ADHD, parents, and members of the media alike. I think we'd all be better off if we stopped speaking of these conditions as external forces acting upon the self, and instead, as mutable characteristics of the self.

ahknight 12y ago
What are you trying to say? Whatever it was, you kind of failed at it. Are you trying to toe the now-trite line that ADHD isn't a thing or something?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- dasmithii 12y ago
  I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm suggesting that it be considered a characteristic, and not an external force. This way, we don't grow dualistic, differentiating between oneself and one's brain. I guess it's the dualism here that I'm criticizing, not ADHD itself. See the fourth paragraph: "if you have the 'illness,' the real problem is that, to your brain, the world that you live in essentially feels not very interesting." This distinction between "you" and "your brain" is what bothers me.
  - ahknight 12y ago
    As someone with clinically-diagnosed "severe ADHD" I use that language all the time. I want to do something. My mind won't let me. It really is like a devil on my shoulder sometimes. "I want to read a book." "No." "Really! It's good! We've done this be-" "No. Look, shiny!" "Neat! Now, the book..." "No. We're going to watch a show now." Sigh.
    - rezistik 12y ago

whiddershins 12y ago

> Nor am I saying we that should not use stimulant medications like Adderall and Ritalin, which are safe and effective and very helpful to many kids with A.D.H.D. are they really safe and effective? I've taken these after being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and although I believe they are quite effective, I am really surprised they give these drugs to young children. I would not.

jamesisaac 12y ago

This is pretty much the same approach I took to largely overcome ADHD-like symptoms. I happen to believe that, if you've fallen into a routine, it's time to re-evaluate, anyway - so the tactic of engineering a more stimulating environment seems like a great idea regardless.

ahknight 12y ago
> overcome ADHD-like symptoms First, good for you -- really! Second, it's very important in discussions like this to qualify the target audience. A LOT of people have SOME of the symptoms, even to levels that impair their lives. NOT a lot of those people have full-blown ADHD. If you have SOME symptoms and things like that help you, that's fantastic. In my direct and social experiences, however, those with clinical ADHD diagnoses are assisted with such suggestions, but very rarely do they improve things to the point that there is no longer a significant impairment to that person's life. THAT is when medication is a good fit: clinical diagnosis, life and environment changes haven't significantly helped, and there is still a negative impairment on one's life.
- jamesisaac 12y ago
  I realise there are others that likely have much more severe manifestations of the symptoms than me, but I don't think it's quite as black and white as you're making out. Surely the line you describe as "full-blown clinical ADHD" is somewhat arbitrary, when the symptoms exist on a spectrum? I didn't attempt to get myself diagnosed, but yes, it was a significant impairment towards my life, and yes, there still is quite a negative impairment. If I wanted to get routine tasks done with any kind of consistency, I may well have to look into medication. But instead, I structured my life around a very diverse range of stimulating past-times, and set myself up with very few obligations (e.g. no employer). This leaves a lifestyle of jumping between stimulating and challenging activities, which allows me to be a lot more productive, and achieve much more, than I ever did when I was in formal education or working a repetitive office job. > In my direct and social experiences, however, those with clinical ADHD diagnoses are assisted with such suggestions, but very rarely do they improve things to the point that there is no longer a significant impairment to that person's life. How far did they take the suggestions? Did they quit their job and start their own startup? While I agree that medication is probably the best solution for certain types of lifestyle, I do think adjusting one's environment is an underrated and underexplored solution, that could do with more research.

heurist 12y ago

So how do you do this in software? Consulting? Startup? I'm a couple years into my first software development job out of school and barely get through the moderate amount of work that's assigned to me right now. I'm afraid of switching to another development job where more would be expected of me (consulting! startups!). Without having these problems under control I may not be reliable despite my talent. Over the last month or so I've been reading up on product management and it sounds like a good fit. Interact with people, track markets, discover problems, craft creative solutions, have other people figure out the exact implementation... Lately I've been trying to discover broad problems and their solutions in my current position, and it seems to be helping (helps me feel like I'm actually contributing, at least). I don't know any product managers to talk to about their day-to-day stuff though. Has anyone with ADHD found that to be a good career path?

ahknight 12y ago
I tried consulting. I couldn't self-motivate to self-imposed deadlines. Barely averted disaster. Never again. Tried a startup. Same problem. Worse result. Now I startup surf as a developer, but only to interesting projects. If I work on a boring project, I'm going to wind up behind schedule. One I learned that about myself, I adjusted my job searches to fit (as much as possible). Project management? I suppose if I weren't the one actually doing it that would work. But if you switch early on, you're stuck with it. I'd get a few more years of software on your resume before bailing. That gives you experience with various kinds of scheduling and PMs and a better idea of the PM you'll want to be.
- heurist 12y ago
  Thanks, I agree it would be best to get a few more years under my belt. How did you get into startup surfing?
  - ahknight 12y ago
    Got hired by one. They didn't have enough people so I added about a dozen acronyms to the resume. After it cratered I picked up a job based on those acronyms. Rinse and repeat.

kurage 12y ago

I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 12. Classic, "textbook" example of one. I felt like it was a curse until I was about 20. I was put on Focalin, Ritalin, Adderall, Vyvanse over those years.. they all made me calm and focused. Without my meds, I used to live in my head all day, theorizing how the universe and neurons work.. playing with ideas, twisting shapes in my mind. I was also prone to depression, anxiety, and I hated dealing with emotions. Then one day, when I was about 23, I did LSD and cannabis together. My whole world came crashing down, and I realized that ADHD was a label that limited my true potential, and made me judgmental of "neurotypicals". After my trip, I realized that I lost about 75% of my visual-spatial ability (I felt out of it for a year or so as I missed having that ability), but I also felt more at peace, open-minded, and in the present moment. I also became a "doer", rather than a "thinker". I do not use any meds at all now; I meditate in the morning for at least 20 minutes, and try to run at least once a week. With that said, I still like variety, and am a jack of all trades. Last time I did freelance, I loved doing marketing research, design, coding, programming and social media.

ahknight 12y ago
That's an interesting story. I've read that even one use of LSD can alter the brain (similar to this: http://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personality-long-term.html http://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personality...).
- kurage 12y ago
  I took a small dose of shrooms few months ago; it made me closer to nature, and it got rid of my porn/fapping addiction. I really think that psychedelics have the potential to "round" people out.
ashleyp 12y ago
Really interesting and I've had some eye opening experiences with this. May I ask, do you still play with ideas/how the universe works etc? Do you miss that at all? Also, have you read "The power of now"?

myrandomcomment 12y ago

I take my 54mg of Concerta (time released Ritalin - methylphenidate - ie, pure government speed) every morning. 6th startup now? They hit about 100 people and I move on. Wonder why? Job wise in the startup I am the "fixer". The get it done guy. I wonder why?

lnanek2 12y ago

The article wonders at the huge increase in diagnoses that mysteriously disappear in adulthood, but if the author had spent some time at college recently he'd know that Adderall is seen as THE way to ace tests and study more. It isn't difficult to walk into a doctors office and act and say the right way and things to get your prescription after you get tired of buying it off friends, either.

oddtarball 12y ago

This article's premise is built on an incorrect understanding of "treating" or "fixing" or "losing" (symptoms). If: baseline x is underwhelming to the point of painful boredom Else: baseline y is higher and therefore satisfyingly stimulating Then the fundamental problem of a lacking reward system for "normal" (x) baseline activity remains unresolved. I have ADHD and decided to try medication for the first time only a few years ago (in my 20's). Sure, keeping things "interesting" and "new" can trick one's mind into paying additional attention towards the daily grind, but not for one second does that mean that ADHD would be resolved. To make a more clear point, let's apply this thinking to another context: Murderers would be cured if there weren't anyone to murder, right? No. You're supposed to solve problems, not symptoms.

warfangle 12y ago
That's the thing, I think. Treatment (both cognitive behavioral therapy and chemical) has enabled me to get on with my life in so many ways. It's not about getting rid of the symptoms - they're still there. It's about knowing when your symptoms are getting the better of you -- and taking agency over them. If my brain is a wall of TV's all tuned to different channels with the volume turned to 11, adderal finally gave me a clicker to be able to turn all but one off. Or, at least, mute. And in many ways, I'm glad I'm not asymptomatic on medication: many of the downsides of ADHD can actually be huge, huge upsides. I thought it would kill my creative problem solving, going on meds: if anything, it's put it into overdrive. Instead of stashing something in my subconscious and hoping a solution percolates up a few minutes, hours, days, or weeks later ... I can pick up the puzzle, look at it, really concentrate and think about it. It's a life changing thing to realize what it's like to actually ruminate on a problem. On the other hand, I still make the zany off the wall connections between two problems that let me come up with a solution to both of them. Instead of hoping for the luck of the draw, though, I can stack the deck.
- oddtarball 12y ago
  I 100% agree. People think ADD/ADHD is "resolved" on meds, but it's not the case. They started me on 27mg of Concerta, then 54mg, then I was (thankfully) moved to Vyvanse and titrated my way up to 60mg. The story hasn't changed - it's still valuable to leverage the downsides into strength. An ADD/ADHD brain is certainly a chaotic one, but going on meds has enabled me to do better planning/execution and to actually complete tasks. Your wall of TVs analogy is great - I often describe my head as the similar murmur you hear from a crowd. Thoughts are like white noise where it's nearly impossible to pick the right one out, let alone stay with it for a while when it's so easy to hear everything else on top of it. Not to sound skitzo, but I think the meds do a great job of quieting that noise. While medicated, I have the ability to plan a task or project, execute each step, and actually stick with it to the end. It's still possible to get off task, and perhaps worse if you do (since then you're REALLY focused on being off task), but the meds still help me think. But that is where it stops. They don't resolve problems - they provide most of the tools needed to change the way you think so you can work on resolving them yourself. Now, to the popular point of diet and exercise; I'm sure it's a mix of improved medication delivery, the natural stress relief, and the endorphin benefit that comes with it - but eating well and regularly exercising seems to amplify the medication's benefit by 15-20%. Those two things are marginally helpful without meds, along with several other "natural remedies" that I have tried, but I think a combination of all of the above is key. My original point was just that the article makes it sound like symptoms should be treated via introducing new parts to the equation which ultimate distract people from boring situations. Yet, ADD/ADHD in its TRUE FORM works 100% independent of one's desire to pay attention. The argument of "BUT VIDEO GAMES ARE FINE SO IT'S CLEARLY CHOICE" is 100% falsified by Dr. Thomas E Brown's research. He provides such excellent insight - I am so fortunate to have met him. I'll close this novel of a post with an analogy made by Dr. Brown when we met: "Picture a massive old wooden sailboat with dozens of crew frantically fighting to pull the sails, keep up with the demands of their job, etc. Non-ADD/ADHD folk can get a benefit from medication, but it just speeds up both the captain and crew. ADD/ADHD folk, on the other hand, are instead sailing through a terrible storm at a much faster pace than normal and can hardly see - but the crew still keep up with their jobs. The captain is the problem. In this case, the captain is the only one sped up by the meds, and suddenly, no matter how chaotic and messy that voyage is, it's all under control."

Xcelerate 12y ago

Well huh. I'd never thought I had ADHD, just a complete inability to motivate myself to do things. However, the descriptions in this article describe me perfectly! Everything seems dull, I'm constantly seeking new experiences, the idea of a daily routine terrifies me (even though my father keeps encouraging me to develop one), but I can play piano for an entire day.

ahknight 12y ago
Nailed it. But do yourself a favor and don't self-label. Go talk to a professional for a while and see what their take is. By which I mean an LCW or psychologist, not a GP. :)
- furyofantares 12y ago
  LCW?
  - ahknight 12y ago
    Licensed Clinical Worker. Therapist.
jacques_chester 12y ago
Ask to see a psychiatrist. A proper diagnosis will require a history going back to childhood. I'm 33, I was diagnosed about a year ago. It's made a positive difference on my life.
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  >It's made a positive difference on my life. // Because you're now under a regime of medication, or ...?
  - jacques_chester 12y ago
    Ritalin. Also trialled dextroamphetamine (worked badly for me) and straterra (did nothing). Ritalin helps a lot. It's not magic. Exercise and quality sleep are important too, but were not enough by themselves.

dasmithii 12y ago

Here's an audio snippet of Alan Watt's perspective on this issue. In general, he sees modern mental illnesses as personality traits. Thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN8B8jMuDZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN8B8jMuDZE

ahknight 12y ago
Willfully ignorant of science.
- dasmithii 12y ago
  How so? Watts doesn't deny the differences between those affected by ADHD and those who are not. He argues that these differences are best understood as personality traits and not products of an affliction. This isn't a matter of ignorance, but interpretation of and reaction to scientific discoveries.
  - ahknight 12y ago
    There is no success because of ADHD. There is success despite having ADHD. It's not a personality trait that I cannot physically do something I want to do and need to do without medication and, frankly, I'm sick of people who don't experience it offering new theories on it as if they have some grand insight into it. Get a head injury that breaks your executive functions. Join us. Then try to offer it up as a personality trait.
    - dasmithii 12y ago
      Are you better off because of your diagnosis? And why?
    - ashleyp 12y ago
      Love a lot of your posts here you're very vocal and well explain. I'm an ADHDer, software developer, avid researcher, fascinated with neuroscience and cognitive science and studied modules of it in university. But I sense you've been reading a lot from Barkley? And Barkley unfortunately can be closed minded(his brother had ADHD and died in a car crash so it's understandable he's negative towards it). We've seen in neuroscience that certain characteristics in ADHD, i.e lack of inhibition can lead to positives. The brain compensates. Honestly, I feel in the next decade ADHD will be looked upon as a subset of personality/neurological traits, more in line with how as Aspergers is been seen nowadays.

mvlad 12y ago

"In short, people with A.D.H.D. may not have a disease, so much as a set of behavioral traits that don’t match the expectations of our contemporary culture."

Argorak 12y ago
On a positive note, there are A.D.(H.)D. symptoms that do have upsides and can be worked around very cleverly. Still, there are some that squarely fall into the problematic kind, for example the problem to go back to a task when disturbed (instead of Task A -> disturbed with Task B -> Task A, you go Task A -> Task B -> Task C) or the tendency to avoid mentally taxing task.

ajcarpy2005 12y ago

Essential Fatty Acids play a role. It's not productive to focus on just one causal factor normally but EFA deficiency is quite common because of: 1. maligning of dietary fats 2. high cost of fish relative to other foods 3. time and effort required to cook eggs in morning and the tremendous marketing investments in easier but ultimately unsustainable 'foods' It's a shame that so much knowledge about human health goes to waste because of either ignorance or misplaced priorities.

54mf 12y ago
[Citation Needed]
- ajcarpy2005 12y ago
 I'm not against citations but obviously it would be nice if we were amply schooled in the biological functions of dietary nutrients so that the knowledge was just more tacit. On some level it feels like you're asking me to link to a proof that a2 + b2 = c2 solves for the hypotenuse of a triangle. To learn about EFA's and their general function: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid Here's a start: CONCLUSION: The ratio of membrane omega-3 to omega-6 PUFAs can be modulated by dietary intake. This ratio influences neurotransmission and prostaglandin formation, processes that are vital in the maintenance of normal brain function. Source: http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/12728744 http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/12728744 Some medical observations about EFA deficiency symptoms include: Symptoms of omega-3 fatty acid deficiency include fatigue, poor memory, dry skin, heart problems, mood swings or depression, and poor circulation. It is important to have the proper ratio of omega-3 and omega-6 (another essential fatty acid) in the diet. Source: http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/omega3-fatty-acids http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/omega3-fatty... Notice the fatigue and poor memory. Sources studying links between EFA's & ADHD: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584601002548 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584601... (positive correlation found) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574158 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574158 (this study doesn't include the term ADHD at all but it does speak of the need for EFA's in hippocampal neurogenesis, the common clinical finding of hippocampal atrophy in depressed patients, and the finding that EFA administration gives a statistically significant improvement in depressed patients in clinical trials. The reason this matters for our purposes is because the hippocampus Hippocampus and amygdala morphology in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. The enlarged hippocampus in children and adolescents with ADHD may represent a compensatory response to the presence of disturbances in the perception of time, temporal processing (eg, delay aversion), and stimulus seeking associated with ADHD. Disrupted connections between the amygdala and orbitofrontal cortex may contribute to behavioral disinhibition. Our findings suggest involvement of the limbic system in the pathophysiology of ADHD. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16818869 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16818869 OK, admittedly, I didn't know or expect to find that people with ADHD often have an !ENLARGED Hippocampus. This doesn't mean that EFA's aren't part of the problem/solution equation though. Just knowing that the amygdala is involved should also cause us to form hypotheses about traumatic memories and anxiety type issues being co-involved with ADHD (struggle with learning, self-control of behavior) Dietary studies are indicated to determine if essential fatty acid supplementation can influence central nervous system serotonin and dopamine metabolism and modify impulsive behaviors related to these neurotransmitters. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715354 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715354 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18019397 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18019397 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15925295 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15925295 The brain is sufficiently complex and interconnected that when you see problems like ADHD (which generally seem to be very treatable/preventable/reversible with certain dietary choices rather than inherent structural problems from birth/genetics) strongly expressed in a person then you can be pretty sure that a large portion of nutrients which relate to brain development and health are either deficient or otherwise not being metabolized normally. One of the first things IMO that should happen when trying to provide treatment for patients with any disease should be to question them about their diet and emphatically educate them on the critical and irreplaceable role of the different nutrients and how a lack of them may be effecting them. (commonly green vegetables, seafood, healthy fats, Magnesium...etc.) The diet of most Americans in the last few decades may have increased in calories but I think it's become less diverse and inclusive in essential nutrition. This is arguably the cause of the rise in behavioral and mood disorders among our youth.

frozenport 12y ago

A harder question: If ADHD isn't real but the drugs do something with utility what should be societies stance? If somebody wants to, or needs to do work that requires more concentration, how do we justify denying them the opportunity to better themselves? Much like giving welfare under the guise of disability, this discussion reflects yesterday s ethics on today's questions.

mercurialshark 12y ago

I'm glad the article spoke to specific regional recruitment issues in the brain and evolutionary advantages. As someone who was diagnosed at a young age and retain the condition through adulthood, it wasn't until I understood the evolutionary advantages to not being able to quiet regions of the brain not involved in the specific activity - that I learned how to self-learn. Long story short, it's not just the testing conditions in which it's beneficial to not be in a class-room setting, but the learning phase too. Essentially, I'm completely worthless trying to absorb new information in a room full of people. It's nearly impossible to not be conscious of those around me. However, at home - where I can control environmental factors - everything changes. I am not forced to be reactive and can happily concentrate - even with other portions of the brain remaining active (listening, wondering, whatever).

rayalez 12y ago

It's weird and frustrating that people label many abnormalities as "diseases". When I read a list of ADHD symptoms I keep asking myself - how is that a bad thing? Being bored doing unenjoyable tasks, hating homework, "Not seem to listen when spoken to",Struggle to follow instructions,Dash around, touching or playing with anything and everything in sight, Have trouble sitting still during school and homework, Be constantly in motion, Have difficulty doing quiet tasks or activities.... These sound like symptoms of being a kid...

funkyy 12y ago
I knew a kid that had ADHD. Unfortunately it was just a label - way for a kid to get everything. The kid didn't had ADHD imo, he was just spoiled and his parents were failing to do any parenting. The kid would eat whole mountain of sweets, drink cola all day, play games and scream and cry whenever he was prohibited something. In school he wasnt interested in learning and he basically would do nothing or play portable games all day. He would also not care for others and his needs would be always #1 before anything else. Parents were really protective of him so they would fight with teachers whenever they would try to do something about it. The kid seemed to be pretty smart and he got all this figured out and used it a lot. But whenever he would be with people he didnt knew in a room, or with no-bullshit people, he would be actually quiet and behaving very good. SOME ADHD cases sounds like just putting label on failed parenting to shut parents and avoid being sued by them for not doing any proper parenting.
- DonHopkins 12y ago
  Somebody was reading a list of ADHD warning signs to me from some self help book, which all perfectly described a mutual friend of ours: things like "interrupts other people while they're talking", "doesn't return phone calls", "no respect for authority", "always wants to be the center of attention", etc. I asked, "Maybe they're just an asshole? Isn't it possible to be an asshole without having ADHD?" Oh, all right, I'll admit: it was really all about me. ;)
  - funkyy 12y ago

jvdh 12y ago

I have only experienced ADHD second hand, my partner has been diagnosed with it years ago, and a good friend of mine as well. I recognise the "coping mechanisms" with alcohol, and the frustration of getting mundane things done. The article suggests that the intense concentration or "hyperfocus" they have when they find something interesting can be used to their advantage. Both my partner and friend have gotten into occupations where they can do this. But there will always be mundane things that have to get done as well. Everyone has to pay taxes, and has to watch their spending. Few people like to do this, but almost everyone has to. Having a thrilling job does not alleviate you from these things. So yes, it can probably help somewhat, but it can't "fix" ADHD completely.

Swannie 12y ago
Yes. Paperwork, taxes, expenses, etc. sigh. No amount of structure can remove the fact that they are inherently extremely unrewarding, and even staring out the window offers more rewards. The stick just doesn't seem to work for my ADD inclined mind - never has.

wander55 12y ago

I just read the article and all of the comments and I am still on the toilet... Does that level of hyperfocus mean I have ADHD?

ahknight 12y ago
Either that or you're constipated.

adhd_anon 12y ago

I have severe inattentive ADHD. 1. There is absolutely no sympathy: The problem with ADHD is that it is a disorder of degree not kind. If I had epilepsy or cancer or had some of my limbs missing then people around me would be supportive and understanding. But not ADHD. Everybody's mind wanders. Everyone would like to only do interesting things. Everyone forgets things from time to time. But, the problem is the degree to which these afflict people with ADHD. We don't expect someone without legs to walk normally or properly. Yet, when it comes to the mind we have little patience. Somehow, we expect people to get their act together. We label them lazy, unmotivated and indisciplined. A product of poor parenting. We get frustrated that they are not reaching their full potential. In a way, having ADHD in 2014 is like being Gay or having an interracial marriage in the 60s or 70s. Ignorant cynical judgmental people assume that you can will your way out of ADHD through discipline and will power. 2. ADHD does give you super powers: Insane creativity. The ability to think outside the box. The ability to make off the wall zany connections. Always looking for small advantages and using creativity to your advantage. I use mnemonics to remember things. I hired people overseas who follow up on everything I do. I built products that are on track to doing well. When I do succeed, people write it off as being lucky. I wish I could write more. But I am actually supposed to be doing something else right now.

chimeracoder 12y ago
I've found that this webcomic does a reasonable job at illustrating that to people who don't understand mental illness: http://www.robot-hugs.com/helpful-advice/ http://www.robot-hugs.com/helpful-advice/ In the example you list, it'd be like telling the first person, "Everyone feels bloated after eating a big meal - that doesn't mean you need to stay in bed all day when you think you have 'food poisoning'". I agree that it's frustrating to read articles like this that trivialize mental disorders and downplay the struggles that they can actually cause for people. EDIT: Changed comic link to original source
eclipsor 12y ago
Recently diagnosed myself, I spent years and years trying to control it via willpower. The real turning point when I realized I needed to see someone was a few months ago. I found that hobbies I loved (gaming, programming, etc) would no longer hold my attention and I was compulsively getting up and wandering to the kitchen/bathroom just because my brain felt like it was frying. This is extremely hard to explain, because I'm not slacking to get off of work and do something fun like everyone else, I was compulsively slacking because very little would grab me.

SteventM8 12y ago

Now give me some

amelius 12y ago

I think I'm having the exact reverse problem. My focus at work is very good, but I feel anxiety levels going up during the day. Drinking coffee sends my anxiety through the roof. Also I'm often so concentrated on things happening inside my head, that I forget to pay attention to the outside world. This is especially problematic when talking to other people (that talk slowly), or in traffic. Probably these symptoms are not so bad when compared to ADHD, but at times I just wish there was a (preferably natural) medicine to deal with this.

ericabiz 12y ago
You may want to look into the PI variant of ADHD (primarily inattentive.) It's the "daydreamer" type, but you aren't hyperactive. See more details at http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_predominantly_inattentive http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivi... It isn't unusual to have generalized anxiety or a specific anxiety disorder in addition to ADHD. Definitely see a psychiatrist to get an official diagnosis--it will help you feel better just knowing what you have. Also, I'd recommend seeing a doctor and getting a physical done too. You may have something physical that is causing the anxiety. I have both ADHD and anxiety. I went to a psychiatrist and got an ADHD diagnosis. In addition, blood tests plus followup tests done by my doctor showed Graves' disease--a thyroid autoimmune disorder that causes anxiety. Having both of these diagnosed and seeking treatment has provided me with a lot of relief. I strongly recommend you do the same.

bayesianhorse 12y ago

This unscientific narrative is dangerous. ADHD can go away over the years, without medication. But you can't predict it, and there is no evidence for particular causes of "remission". More stimulation is hardly the answer to the social problems arising from ADHD, to drug addictions or a myriad of other problems patients have. It certainly doesn't work against depression, and good luck curing 5-10% of children just by "stimulating" them more. Coping with ADHD means improving Attention and Focus. The single most effective way is medication. Additionally mindfulness/awareness meditation has been shown to work. Other activities like martial arts or dancing may have similar effects, but less reliably so.

ohyes 12y ago

I've never been diagnosed but I'm bored all of the time. I'm almost 30. I've been fairly successful in jobs where I'm learning new stuff all the time. Is it possible I'm ADD? Edit: I got bored halfway through the article.

adhdthrowawy 12y ago
Do you find routines to be near impossible to establish / follow (eating breakfast, waking up within the same two hour period, taking a shower, etc.)? Are you unable to remember anything without a constantly visible list / alerting system? Do certain irrelavant noises cause you to instantly lose all concentration? Do you have a tendency to forget to pay bills for months while racking up several hundred or thousand dollars in fees? Do your relationships suffer as you often go months without remembering to talk to close friends? Are you usually 5 - 10 minutes late for all meetings and social functions due to an inability to accurately predict durations and intervals of time? Maybe then!
- ohyes 12y ago
  Yes, this is basically all descriptive of me :( the relationships thing hits the nail on the head and has been a recurring problem.

justifier 12y ago

i come from a generation where adhd is vocalised using a cash register chime, so i aggressively avoid acknowledging the diagnosis stead the syndromes > My patient “treated” his [distraction'boredom'frustration'creative depletion] simply by changing the conditions of his work environment from one that was highly routine to one that was varied and unpredictable. All of a sudden, his greatest liabilities — his impatience, short attention span and restlessness — became assets. i developed a similar work environment.. i called it distracting my distractions i often have multiple projects i want to work on with varied goals and requirements and if i start to lull while working i just shift to another project i used to do this when i was a younger when reading i would have many books open and scattered on my floor, all open to different pages my friends might start reading a book at the same time as me and finish the book in one week what took me a four weeks to finish, but after that four weeks was over i would have finished reading three other books as well, each finishing at the end of that four weeks books are really easy to build productive workflows around: you can immediately determine speed and pace based on time it takes to read the second page and how long the book is; with projects it is more difficult, i may get stuck on one function for hours and another will come out of me effortlessly, it is a now a matter of correctly recognising when i've begun to sludge signalling i should move to another project most recently i have been taking breaks from work every thirty minutes or so, unless i am whistling through something, and get up and stretch, while giving my back and butt the rest i try to analyse my progress since the last stretch and determine if a project shift would do me good

darrenkopp 12y ago

For the past few years I've taken both Adderall and Vyvanse, with the past 2 years being Vyvanse. I thought I would be taking these drugs for the rest of my life if I wanted to be successful, because when I didn't take them, I could not focus on work tasks at all. However, the "cost" of these drugs for me was that I couldn't turn off. I was driven from the time I woke up to the time I went to bed. My social life definitely suffered. So, as I started a new job this year in January, I decided to make a clean break. I quit Vyvanse cold turkey and started a new job. I've been doing exceptionally. I never thought this could happen. Thinking back on the issue just yesterday I was telling a colleague that I thought this was likely because I must have been bored with the tasks at my previous job, and I've found all the new tasks to be interesting enough to bring out what I consider great performance from myself, though not the insane amount of performance I was doing on Vyvanse. Anecdotal at best, but I independently came to the same conclusions as this article, for whatever it's worth.

emcarey 12y ago

I'm an adult woman with adhd and it's definitely been an advantage as an entrepreneur. When I hyper focus on our company, brilliant things happen because I can think out of the box and my passion and obsession for our product has my undivided attention. Needing to constantly shift work environments, go for walks, and multitask has worked well for me in my startup life. However, in my former corporate life, it was at times crippling and embarrassing. I really appreciated this article because it elevates the need for those with adhd to choose the work environment best fit for their behavioral needs and hopefully sheds light to a wider audience that adhd is in fact 'a real thing'. In a previous corporate role, when i spoke to HR about my daily struggle working in an office environment with tv's on and lots of cubes with loud people talking, they didn't take me seriously and just thought it was a 'millennial' problem. I had to work saturday nights and sundays just to complete my work because during the work week it was so difficult to focus with all the surrounding noise. I lied to my manager about all my weekend work because she down played the very realness my adhd had on my ability to focus like I was making it up. I hope this article brings to light that many people do suffer from adhd and to take their work environment requests seriously. I hope it also encourages those with adhd to be more vocal about it.

kpennell 12y ago
I worked at an office park in the SF peninsula for a year and see now why I was the guy always going out exploring. I'd ride my bike around, found out we could get on the roof, checked out all the wetlands surroundings, and asked a whole lot of questions on Quora. Haha, I was the wacky energetic guy. Some of the stuff I had to do just about bored me to tears.