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SpaceshipTwo crashes shortly after Mojave test flight

598 points by llamataboot 12y ago

Fuzzwah 12y ago
From https://twitter.com/virgingalactic https://twitter.com/virgingalactic > Virgin Galactic's partner Scaled Composites conducted a powered test flight of #SpaceShipTwo earlier today. > During the test, the vehicle suffered a serious anomaly resulting in the loss of SpaceShipTwo. WK2 landed safely. > Our first concern is the status of the pilots, which is unknown at this time. > We will work closely with relevant authorities to determine the cause of this accident and provide updates ASAP.
cek 12y ago
Condolences to the friends and family of anyone who may have perished in this event. While this is a major set-back and bummer, at the same time it is far better that something like this happen during a test than during a commercial flight. Whatever the design, manufacturing, or process issues are, they will now be sussed out reducing the chance of a failure later on. I sincerely hope this is not such a huge set-back that it totally derails Virgin/Scaled's approach as I love the fact that we have competing commercial concepts working at the same time.
sounds 12y ago
While I can't imagine how tragic this must be for the families of the pilots, I just want to say that one of the pilots has given his everything for this cause: that one day we will not be a one-planet species. For that alone, all involved are heroes.
- arjn 12y ago
  Totall agree. These people are the modern day seafarers. Heading out into unknown waters.
  - melling 12y ago
    Someone dying is devastating. Trying to conquer space a handful of people at a time is the slow and dangerous way of accomplishing this task. We should be building machines to explore the solar system. This can be done for a fraction of the cost, time, and it will allow him to allow us to iterate quickly. In 100 years, more humans will live off earth if we iterate with machines, etc now than if we move slowly trying to reduce the risk in order to keep humans safe.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      Its sad, sure. Sorry for their loss. But people take far greater risks for far less reason. Monster Truck rallys. Motorcycle racing. Skiing. We don't change national priorities every time somebody dies at those activities. SO lets keep it in perspective, and salute the brave folks who are trying to expand human boundaries.
      - melling 12y ago
        I think you're overlooking the fact that Virgin Galactic isn't a national priority, it's a commercial venture. And it'll probably take years of testing to convince many people to take their flight, assuming they want to spend the money. The ability of the United States to send people to space ended because of the last shuttle accident. So, yes, people dying did affect our national resolve. I think if you do the math, flying in the space shuttle was more dangerous. There were only 135 flights? We lost $3.5 billion of hardware and 14 lives in 2 accidents.
        JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        Virgin Galactic is American. We don't reserve that name for government employees. There are several such commercial ventures in America right now. And some of them are close to sending Americans into space. Its a priority for these Americans to send people into space. I don't think I've overlooked anything. The importance of this adventure (to the people involved) has so far been worth the risk, partly because they regard it as far more important that motorcycle racing.
uptown 12y ago
This person is claiming to report from the scene: https://twitter.com/spacecom https://twitter.com/spacecom
llamataboot 12y ago
Most information seems to be on Twitter at the moment. Only official statement from Virgin is that the flight experienced an in-flight anomoly: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/virgin-voyage/virgin-galactics-spaceshiptwo-suffers-flight-anomaly-n238376 http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/virgin-voyage/virgin-galact...
- SEJeff 12y ago
  https://twitter.com/hashtag/SS2?src=hash https://twitter.com/hashtag/SS2?src=hash for reference
lutorm 12y ago
Nasaspaceflight.com has reports saying one pilot has been found alive and another didn't make it. http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35117.270 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35117.270 What a terrible week. :(
- rmason 12y ago
  News reports cited that witnesses said they only saw a single chute. Very sad day indeed.
- jwise0 12y ago
  Looks like that thread has moved out of the general discussion thread: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35974.60 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35974.60
htormey 12y ago
I am really sad to hear about this crash. In case anyone is interested in the technology behind SpaceshipTwo here is a brilliant documentary about Burt Rutan, Scaled Composites and the development of SpaceshipOne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz8wlcUPz90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz8wlcUPz90 The documentary includes a very touching interview with a test pilot.
arjn 12y ago
Its very sad but inevitable. At this cutting edge of technology and human endeavour, accidents are bound to happen.
- sp332 12y ago
  It's not inevitable, as evidenced by all the other accidents that have been... evited. You just don't hear about those. (Yes, evited is a word, it's just weird.)
  - sejje 12y ago
    Maybe it's inevitable in the sense that all the accidents can't be evited. Eventually you'll have one. ( Chrome doesn't think evited is a word. )
  - DubiousPusher 12y ago
    I believe the OP here meant not that this specific incident was inevitable but rather that the death of a private astronaut at some point was statistically inevitable.
    - joshstrange 12y ago
      As zepolud said elsewhere in this thread: > current spaceplanes have the capability to fly and land autonomously--Boeing X-37, Dream Chaser, even Buran was fully autonomous and that was 25 years ago. There is simply no excuse for Virgin for being sloppy. The point being there shouldn't have been human pilots in those seats in the first place.
- zepolud 12y ago
  It is demonstrably avoidable, there is zero need to risk human lives when doing testing these days. This is why Sierra Nevada's Dream Chaser has the capability to land autonomously and is precisely why when it had an accident in 2013[1] nobody was hurt. [1]http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1310/26dreamchaser/ http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1310/26dreamchaser/
Lambdanaut 12y ago
The ship came down in pieces and there's debris littering the ground. It's not sounding like they all made it. https://twitter.com/spacecom https://twitter.com/spacecom This is awful. I hope that problems like this don't result in more regulations and barriers to private spaceflight. It's about as dangerous of a job as they come and we have to expect companies will lose men. Every astronaut is a hero for humanity and progress.
dang 12y ago
Url changed from http://www.kerngoldenempire.com/news/local/story/d/story/spaceshiptwo-crashes-shortly-after-mojave-test-fli/11401/64VdLqg21EWpK1vuptvTsg http://www.kerngoldenempire.com/news/local/story/d/story/spa... because this one seems to have more information. If there's a better url, we can change it again.
8_hours_ago 12y ago
Here's some background after reading a little bit of Wikipedia... - Virgin Galactic has ordered a total of 5 SpaceShipTwos from the aptly named "The Spaceship Company". - There are 2 built, the VSS (Virgin Space Ship) Enterprise and VSS Voyager. - Only the VSS Enterprise has been flown, so I assume that is the ship which crashed today. This is a sad day, indeed.
sp3000 12y ago
This is a pretty significant and sad setback. Virgin Galactic was set up so eventually the average person can experience the wonder of space flight. The company didn't have Elon Musk type aspirations, but it is a big part of the process that will eventually allow us to colonize the stars. These type of events show that even though we have the smartest scientific wizards in the world working on these things, there is still so much we have to learn, almost a half century after we landed people on the moon.
JanSolo 12y ago
This is very bad. Not just for the family and friends of the poor guy who died, but for commercial manned spaceflight in general. SpaceshipTwo is considered the 'simplest' and 'safest' of all the upcoming manned commercial vehicle. It has many features that should help keep it reliable. For example, instead of a real liquid rocket engine, it uses a hybrid engine; it has almost no moving parts apart from a valve or two. No turbopumps or gimbals or much mechanical stuff to go wrong. It only goes suborbital, so it does not need a heatshield because there's no re-entry. The landing system uses wings & wheels similar to any commercial jet. This stuff is mature and tested. In fact, the only novel thing about SS2 is it's wing-feathering system. It's lets the craft to descend vertically still under the pilots control. I wonder if (and this is complete speculation) there was a problem restoring the wings to their 'atmospheric' flight position which prevented them from landing normally. The consequences for commercial manned spaceflight will be quite severe, I think. I imagine that many Virgin Galactic customers will cancel their pre-orders. The flight test program is dead in it's tracks at this point; even those who don't cancel will be unlikely to fly for many more years while investigations and improvements are concluded. Other manned providers such as SpaceX and XCor will likely be extra cautious before allowing people to fly in their vehicles. The image of manned commercial spaceflight will take a hit. If the 'Safest' of the commercial vehicles can crash before it even enters service, I worry that many potential customers will be put off. It never hurts to remember that Spaceflight is a dangerous business. It's a sad day to top off a bad week in spaceflight. :(
- nawitus 12y ago
  It's been reported that it "exploded in mid-air", and two parachutes were deployed, so the cause probably was not the wing-feathering system.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - JanSolo 12y ago
    Yes, looking at the twitter feed, multiple sources state that it blew up. This means that either the tank (which takes up the whole rear half of the vehicle) failed catastrophically (unlikely; CF-wrapped tanks tend to develop hairline cracks which slowly leak out) OR the engine exploded. What's interesting is that the SS2 engine fuel was swapped out very recently for a new thermoplastic polyamide solid fuel for better performace. Maybe this new fuel was not tested as well as it should have been?
winslow 12y ago
First image of the crash. Looks like one of the tail wings. Unfortunately it seems that one of the pilots did not make it. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1S-bKRCMAEOMsl.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1S-bKRCMAEOMsl.jpg:large
mixmax 12y ago
What this weeks events show us is that space travel is hard. Really hard. Most systems operate in extreme conditions, sometimes bordering on the improbable. Thousands, sometimes millions of horsepower in an engine smaller than a car, cryogenic liquids at -200 degrees celsius cooling a nozzle that is 3000 degrees celsius 5 millimeters away, heatshields designed to absorb obscene amounts of heat, the list just goes on and on. Most people don't realize how hard this is. The physics, the engineering, the design. Yet we have made great strides, especially over the last few years, and Virgin Galactic is a part of this. There is a new era of cheap spaceflight on the horizon, driven forward by fearless men and women that want to go to space no matter what the cost. This is commendable, and is what drives the human race forward. Without these fearless men we wouldn't have gone to the moon. We wouldn't have explored the depths of the ocean. We wouldn't have flown the skies. Today it appears we lost one of these fearless men, but he now rests in peace assured that others will take his place, that he was not alone in his longing to drive mankind forwards into the unknown, that his dreams live on to inspire others. We have conquered the skies, and we will move on. Eventually we will conquer space and make it accessible to all mankind. A fearless man has given his life to allow us to some day leave the cradle that is mother Earth. His ultimate sacrifice won't be in vain.
- atlantic 12y ago
  > This is commendable, and is what drives the human race forward. Without these fearless men we wouldn't have gone to the moon. We wouldn't have explored the depths of the ocean. We wouldn't have flown the skies. That's one way of looking at the matter. Another is that without this untrammelled technological evolution (I hesitate to use the word "progress") we wouldn't be living through the greatest mass extinction event of the last few of million years. A lot of this effort could go instead into finding a better cohabitation between humans and the other species with whom we supposedly share the planet.
  - tomrod 12y ago
    Until when? The next large asteroid? The next close-by gamma burst? The sun goes nova? Let's go see the universe, and take life along with us.
zepolud 12y ago
Test pilots? In the 21st century? I find it absolutely reckless and inexcusable to require live humans riding on a prototype rocket when you have all the processing power needed to automate/remote manage the vehicle literally in your pocket. EDIT: To those downvoting, you should really check that all current spaceplanes have the capability to fly and land autonomously--Boeing X-37, Dream Chaser, even Buran was fully autonomous and that was 25 years ago. There is simply no excuse for Virgin for being sloppy.
- nawitus 12y ago
  >I find it absolutely reckless and inexcusable to require live humans riding on a prototype rocket when you have all the processing power needed to automate/remote manage the vehicle literally in your pocket. I think people should make that decision themselves.
- apr 12y ago
  I think armchair quarterbacking is reckless and inexcusable. These people has been working on airplanes and space crafts for some time now and I would trust their judgment. Especially given that they put their own lives on the line.
  - zepolud 12y ago
    "These people" that designed the spaceplane didn't put their lives on the line, they put the lives of the pilots on the line. And I would trust the judgment of the engineers at Boeing, Sierra Nevada, SpaceX, Lockheed-Martin and the entire Soviet space program over theirs.
    - winslow 12y ago
      Really... You are going to trust the entire Soviet space program compared to the engineers behind this project? I really don't think they were being reckless with having pilots. Ultimately, their plan was to take other patrons up to space. You will need personal (experienced space flight attendants) while conducting the flight. This is obviously tragic and my thoughts go out to the families affected. However, when you are trying to do something as complex as space travel and leaving earth you will unfortunately have mishaps and deaths. Please have a look here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program#Incidents.2C_failures.2C_and_setbacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program#Incidents....
ColinDabritz 12y ago
My thoughts are with the Virgin Galactic team. Spaceflight is difficult, dangerous, and I believe crucial to the future of humanity. Test piloting is always dangerous, more so with space vehicles, but that doesn't make it any less heartbreaking or impactful when you lose someone. I'm sure they will learn from this even as they mourn the loss. Virgin Galactic, especially those you lost today, you have my deepest respect for Daring Greatly.
Flemlord 12y ago
I was lucky enough to attend the first public flight of SpaceShip One; it was one of the most inspirational things I've ever witnessed. Very sorry for the family of the pilot who died and generally everybody involved.
jack-r-abbit 12y ago
With regular flight in regular airplanes being so common and safe these days, it is easy to forget the lives that were lost so many years ago when brave men and women were testing the new technology of the time. Always pushing for faster planes, longer flights, higher altitudes. Lives were lost every step of the way. But it got us here. Today. We can cross oceans in a matter of hours rather than days (weeks?). So we continue to push the limits. And lives are lost each step of the way. Will I ever reach space? It is possible... but not likely. But I see no reason why my children won't. And it will be all because brave men and women, like the man that died today, continued to push the limits.
DiabloD3 12y ago
Can we get a black border on HN for this?
Icybee 12y ago
What crashed? The mother plane part, or the spacecraft part?
- jacquesm 12y ago
  The spacecraft part.
boxcardavin 12y ago
This highlights how important crew escape systems are. The issue isn't just crew survival, but also the effect that loss of crew has on the program. If crew loss is a real danger, it will happen, and after it does the PR often kills the public will to press on.
denom 12y ago
China launches 3 rockets in one week[1]. Russia launches a resupply of the International Space Station, ready to fly just 9 hours after yet another space vehicle crashes here[2]. Say what you want about "cheap spaceflight", there is something dysfunctional going on here. This latest disaster makes me wonder if the US even has a current capability of space flight. Pinching a few pennies isn't worth it. [1] http://spaceflightnow.com/2014/10/27/china-launches-third-space-mission-in-a-week/ http://spaceflightnow.com/2014/10/27/china-launches-third-sp... [2] http://spaceflightnow.com/2014/10/29/russians-launch-progress-supply-ship-to-space-station/ http://spaceflightnow.com/2014/10/29/russians-launch-progres...
- xi_an 12y ago
  Pinching a few pennies is what capitalism is built on, this is why we had fertilizer plants explode, had oil rigs leak oil into the gulf. This is just the beginning if we completely rely on private space companies to do everything.
Aaronontheweb 12y ago
Innovation can't happen without risk - it's a damn shame that pilots lost their lives in this, but it's an inevitability in the course of human progress. Best we can do is learn from the mistakes that happened here and try again.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- Crito 12y ago
  No. Absolutely not. The Antares flight used refurb-Russian engines, and Antares could not be used for manned flight anyways. Even if Antares was flying great, the US would still depend on Russia for rides to the ISS. If the Russians wanted to sabotage something to make sure that the US remained reliant on them, it would be one of the launchers that will be used for manned flights in the near future; Atlas V or Delta IV (CST-100) or Falcon 9 (Dragon 2). Virgin Galactic threatens approximately fuck-all of what the Russians do. Their spacecraft cannot bring people into orbit. In no conceivable way did Space Ship Two make the US any less reliant on the Russians.
sparkzilla 12y ago
Yet another disaster for Branson: http://newslines.org/richard-branson/ http://newslines.org/richard-branson/
larrydag 12y ago
This reminds of studying the Space Shuttle Challenger as part of my Engineering training at school. We studied it as part of an ethics in engineering lesson. The Space Shuttle labels certain components as "Criticality 1". A Criticality 1 component means there is no back up system and failure can lead to catastrophic consequences during Space Shuttle operation, especially at launch. As you may guess the O-rings on the Space Shuttle rocket boosters were graded as Criticality 1. The Space Shuttle had over 700 components graded as Criticality 1. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-03-18/news/8601200450_1_o-ring-seals-nasa-officials-shuttle-components http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-03-18/news/860120045... Space vehicles and space exploration is a very dangerous and high risk endeavor. This week we are unfortunately reminded of this fact. Thoughts go out to the families of the brave pilots and those with the Virgin Galactic program.
adamfeldman 12y ago
This is a time when you re-read Gene Kranz's famous speech to the flight control division after the Apollo 1 fire. Gene Kranz is the gentleman sitting in the flight director's chair in the Apollo 13 movie, wearing the white vest. He helped create the Mission Control organization at NASA. "Spaceflight will never tolerate carelessness, incapacity, and neglect. Somewhere, somehow, we screwed up. It could have been in design, build, or test. Whatever it was, we should have caught it. We were too gung ho about the schedule and we locked out all of the problems we saw each day in our work. Every element of the program was in trouble and so were we. The simulators were not working, Mission Control was behind in virtually every area, and the flight and test procedures changed daily. Nothing we did had any shelf life. Not one of us stood up and said, ‘Dammit, stop!’ I don’t know what Thompson’s committee will find as the cause, but I know what I find. We are the cause! We were not ready! We did not do our job. We were rolling the dice, hoping that things would come together by launch day, when in our hearts we knew it would take a miracle. We were pushing the schedule and betting that the Cape would slip before we did. From this day forward, Flight Control will be known by two words: ‘Tough’ and ‘Competent.’ Tough means we are forever accountable for what we do or what we fail to do. We will never again compromise our responsibilities. Every time we walk into Mission Control we will know what we stand for. Competent means we will never take anything for granted. We will never be found short in our knowledge and in our skills. Mission Control will be perfect. When you leave this meeting today you will go to your office and the first thing you will do there is to write ‘Tough and Competent’ on your blackboards. It will never be erased. Each day when you enter the room these words will remind you of the price paid by Grissom, White, and Chaffee. These words are the price of admission to the ranks of Mission Control." Video re-enactment by Gene Kranz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zjAteaK9lM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zjAteaK9lM
- badname 12y ago
  ...and then it was Enterprise, Atlantis etc. No matter how tough and competent the organization is, failures cannot be eliminated when we are talking about so complex systems/operations.
whitehat2k9 12y ago
Another symptom of the United States' inability to compete in STEM.
- Cookingboy 12y ago
  Yes, because private space flight industry is thriving with success in all the other countries, right...RIGHT?
rainmaking 12y ago
I'm not an expert, merely curious, but didn't Tesla do a test firing for their engine for the unmanned rocket? Couldn't they have done so too?
chatman 12y ago
Outsource all this to India / ISRO.
chrisweekly 12y ago
Tangent: I think it's safe to say that HN -- on this thread in particular -- is populated by many people who are deeply interested in space travel. I'd like to recommend everyone select as their next book for pleasure reading Andy Weir's "The Martian". Here's my GoodReads review: It's not high-brow literature by any stretch. But it's not about the writing per se, it's about the story. I challenge anyone to read it without caring what happens to the protagonist. I recognize that he (and perhaps by extension the author?) may be borderline juvenile on a few occasions... but for me it hardly detracted from the reading experience. On the contrary, I was sufficiently immersed in being on Mars in the shoes of this bold and lonely astronaut that the book per se disappeared nearly the entire time I read it. Pausing to re-read a noteworthy turn of phrase or analyzing it as literature might well have detracted from the author's intent. The story is the thing. For me, the writing got out of the way. And I'm glad it did. This is an extremely well-researched, gripping, exciting page-turner. If you are remotely interested in space travel, imho it's a must-read.
reddog 12y ago
It's a shame that somebody had to die just so billionaires could one day take vanity space flights.
- sirrocco 12y ago
  Oh bullshit ! Everything is at first expensive but eventually reaches down to the masses.
  - xi_an 12y ago
    No, escaping orbit is not for the masses. You will get the VR version of it. Also what a mundane use of the technology, private industry has no incentive to do the science that needs to be done and our space program is dying so these corner cuters can take over.
- vacri 12y ago
  Being a test pilot for an experimental airborne craft isn't the kind of job that people get coerced into doing.
Htsthbjig 12y ago
The question is : Why don't they use an unnamed vehicle for testing new fuels? In lots of ways unmanned is actually simpler than maned, as the US army knows. Using pilots for testing new things looks to me as extremely outdated, from the old macho days. In the old macho days you had to sacrifice people for learning things as simple as how to control the aircraft over the speed of sound. But today it is totally unnecessary.
GhostCursor 12y ago
Software needs to up its game. Systems should have prevented the requested parameters. Jet fighters do the same thing: convert control to the flight systems within an envelope. Both incidents seem to involve ignition, so that seems to be an issue.
NoNonsense 12y ago
test
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

598 points by llamataboot 12y ago

From https://twitter.com/virgingalactic https://twitter.com/virgingalactic > Virgin Galactic's partner Scaled Composites conducted a powered test flight of #SpaceShipTwo earlier today. > During the test, the vehicle suffered a serious anomaly resulting in the loss of SpaceShipTwo. WK2 landed safely. > Our first concern is the status of the pilots, which is unknown at this time. > We will work closely with relevant authorities to determine the cause of this accident and provide updates ASAP.

cek 12y ago

Condolences to the friends and family of anyone who may have perished in this event. While this is a major set-back and bummer, at the same time it is far better that something like this happen during a test than during a commercial flight. Whatever the design, manufacturing, or process issues are, they will now be sussed out reducing the chance of a failure later on. I sincerely hope this is not such a huge set-back that it totally derails Virgin/Scaled's approach as I love the fact that we have competing commercial concepts working at the same time.

sounds 12y ago

While I can't imagine how tragic this must be for the families of the pilots, I just want to say that one of the pilots has given his everything for this cause: that one day we will not be a one-planet species. For that alone, all involved are heroes.

arjn 12y ago
Totall agree. These people are the modern day seafarers. Heading out into unknown waters.
- melling 12y ago
  Someone dying is devastating. Trying to conquer space a handful of people at a time is the slow and dangerous way of accomplishing this task. We should be building machines to explore the solar system. This can be done for a fraction of the cost, time, and it will allow him to allow us to iterate quickly. In 100 years, more humans will live off earth if we iterate with machines, etc now than if we move slowly trying to reduce the risk in order to keep humans safe.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    Its sad, sure. Sorry for their loss. But people take far greater risks for far less reason. Monster Truck rallys. Motorcycle racing. Skiing. We don't change national priorities every time somebody dies at those activities. SO lets keep it in perspective, and salute the brave folks who are trying to expand human boundaries.
    - melling 12y ago
      I think you're overlooking the fact that Virgin Galactic isn't a national priority, it's a commercial venture. And it'll probably take years of testing to convince many people to take their flight, assuming they want to spend the money. The ability of the United States to send people to space ended because of the last shuttle accident. So, yes, people dying did affect our national resolve. I think if you do the math, flying in the space shuttle was more dangerous. There were only 135 flights? We lost $3.5 billion of hardware and 14 lives in 2 accidents.
      - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        Virgin Galactic is American. We don't reserve that name for government employees. There are several such commercial ventures in America right now. And some of them are close to sending Americans into space. Its a priority for these Americans to send people into space. I don't think I've overlooked anything. The importance of this adventure (to the people involved) has so far been worth the risk, partly because they regard it as far more important that motorcycle racing.

uptown 12y ago

This person is claiming to report from the scene: https://twitter.com/spacecom https://twitter.com/spacecom

llamataboot 12y ago

Most information seems to be on Twitter at the moment. Only official statement from Virgin is that the flight experienced an in-flight anomoly: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/virgin-voyage/virgin-galactics-spaceshiptwo-suffers-flight-anomaly-n238376 http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/virgin-voyage/virgin-galact...

SEJeff 12y ago
https://twitter.com/hashtag/SS2?src=hash https://twitter.com/hashtag/SS2?src=hash for reference

lutorm 12y ago

Nasaspaceflight.com has reports saying one pilot has been found alive and another didn't make it. http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35117.270 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35117.270 What a terrible week. :(

rmason 12y ago
News reports cited that witnesses said they only saw a single chute. Very sad day indeed.
jwise0 12y ago
Looks like that thread has moved out of the general discussion thread: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35974.60 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35974.60

htormey 12y ago

I am really sad to hear about this crash. In case anyone is interested in the technology behind SpaceshipTwo here is a brilliant documentary about Burt Rutan, Scaled Composites and the development of SpaceshipOne: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz8wlcUPz90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz8wlcUPz90 The documentary includes a very touching interview with a test pilot.

arjn 12y ago

Its very sad but inevitable. At this cutting edge of technology and human endeavour, accidents are bound to happen.

sp332 12y ago
It's not inevitable, as evidenced by all the other accidents that have been... evited. You just don't hear about those. (Yes, evited is a word, it's just weird.)
- sejje 12y ago
  Maybe it's inevitable in the sense that all the accidents can't be evited. Eventually you'll have one. ( Chrome doesn't think evited is a word. )
- DubiousPusher 12y ago
  I believe the OP here meant not that this specific incident was inevitable but rather that the death of a private astronaut at some point was statistically inevitable.
  - joshstrange 12y ago
    As zepolud said elsewhere in this thread: > current spaceplanes have the capability to fly and land autonomously--Boeing X-37, Dream Chaser, even Buran was fully autonomous and that was 25 years ago. There is simply no excuse for Virgin for being sloppy. The point being there shouldn't have been human pilots in those seats in the first place.
zepolud 12y ago
It is demonstrably avoidable, there is zero need to risk human lives when doing testing these days. This is why Sierra Nevada's Dream Chaser has the capability to land autonomously and is precisely why when it had an accident in 2013[1] nobody was hurt. [1]http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1310/26dreamchaser/ http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1310/26dreamchaser/

Lambdanaut 12y ago

The ship came down in pieces and there's debris littering the ground. It's not sounding like they all made it. https://twitter.com/spacecom https://twitter.com/spacecom This is awful. I hope that problems like this don't result in more regulations and barriers to private spaceflight. It's about as dangerous of a job as they come and we have to expect companies will lose men. Every astronaut is a hero for humanity and progress.

dang 12y ago

Url changed from http://www.kerngoldenempire.com/news/local/story/d/story/spaceshiptwo-crashes-shortly-after-mojave-test-fli/11401/64VdLqg21EWpK1vuptvTsg http://www.kerngoldenempire.com/news/local/story/d/story/spa... because this one seems to have more information. If there's a better url, we can change it again.

8_hours_ago 12y ago

Here's some background after reading a little bit of Wikipedia... - Virgin Galactic has ordered a total of 5 SpaceShipTwos from the aptly named "The Spaceship Company". - There are 2 built, the VSS (Virgin Space Ship) Enterprise and VSS Voyager. - Only the VSS Enterprise has been flown, so I assume that is the ship which crashed today. This is a sad day, indeed.

sp3000 12y ago

This is a pretty significant and sad setback. Virgin Galactic was set up so eventually the average person can experience the wonder of space flight. The company didn't have Elon Musk type aspirations, but it is a big part of the process that will eventually allow us to colonize the stars. These type of events show that even though we have the smartest scientific wizards in the world working on these things, there is still so much we have to learn, almost a half century after we landed people on the moon.

JanSolo 12y ago

This is very bad. Not just for the family and friends of the poor guy who died, but for commercial manned spaceflight in general. SpaceshipTwo is considered the 'simplest' and 'safest' of all the upcoming manned commercial vehicle. It has many features that should help keep it reliable. For example, instead of a real liquid rocket engine, it uses a hybrid engine; it has almost no moving parts apart from a valve or two. No turbopumps or gimbals or much mechanical stuff to go wrong. It only goes suborbital, so it does not need a heatshield because there's no re-entry. The landing system uses wings & wheels similar to any commercial jet. This stuff is mature and tested. In fact, the only novel thing about SS2 is it's wing-feathering system. It's lets the craft to descend vertically still under the pilots control. I wonder if (and this is complete speculation) there was a problem restoring the wings to their 'atmospheric' flight position which prevented them from landing normally. The consequences for commercial manned spaceflight will be quite severe, I think. I imagine that many Virgin Galactic customers will cancel their pre-orders. The flight test program is dead in it's tracks at this point; even those who don't cancel will be unlikely to fly for many more years while investigations and improvements are concluded. Other manned providers such as SpaceX and XCor will likely be extra cautious before allowing people to fly in their vehicles. The image of manned commercial spaceflight will take a hit. If the 'Safest' of the commercial vehicles can crash before it even enters service, I worry that many potential customers will be put off. It never hurts to remember that Spaceflight is a dangerous business. It's a sad day to top off a bad week in spaceflight. :(

nawitus 12y ago
It's been reported that it "exploded in mid-air", and two parachutes were deployed, so the cause probably was not the wing-feathering system.
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- JanSolo 12y ago
  Yes, looking at the twitter feed, multiple sources state that it blew up. This means that either the tank (which takes up the whole rear half of the vehicle) failed catastrophically (unlikely; CF-wrapped tanks tend to develop hairline cracks which slowly leak out) OR the engine exploded. What's interesting is that the SS2 engine fuel was swapped out very recently for a new thermoplastic polyamide solid fuel for better performace. Maybe this new fuel was not tested as well as it should have been?

winslow 12y ago

First image of the crash. Looks like one of the tail wings. Unfortunately it seems that one of the pilots did not make it. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1S-bKRCMAEOMsl.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1S-bKRCMAEOMsl.jpg:large

mixmax 12y ago

What this weeks events show us is that space travel is hard. Really hard. Most systems operate in extreme conditions, sometimes bordering on the improbable. Thousands, sometimes millions of horsepower in an engine smaller than a car, cryogenic liquids at -200 degrees celsius cooling a nozzle that is 3000 degrees celsius 5 millimeters away, heatshields designed to absorb obscene amounts of heat, the list just goes on and on. Most people don't realize how hard this is. The physics, the engineering, the design. Yet we have made great strides, especially over the last few years, and Virgin Galactic is a part of this. There is a new era of cheap spaceflight on the horizon, driven forward by fearless men and women that want to go to space no matter what the cost. This is commendable, and is what drives the human race forward. Without these fearless men we wouldn't have gone to the moon. We wouldn't have explored the depths of the ocean. We wouldn't have flown the skies. Today it appears we lost one of these fearless men, but he now rests in peace assured that others will take his place, that he was not alone in his longing to drive mankind forwards into the unknown, that his dreams live on to inspire others. We have conquered the skies, and we will move on. Eventually we will conquer space and make it accessible to all mankind. A fearless man has given his life to allow us to some day leave the cradle that is mother Earth. His ultimate sacrifice won't be in vain.

atlantic 12y ago
> This is commendable, and is what drives the human race forward. Without these fearless men we wouldn't have gone to the moon. We wouldn't have explored the depths of the ocean. We wouldn't have flown the skies. That's one way of looking at the matter. Another is that without this untrammelled technological evolution (I hesitate to use the word "progress") we wouldn't be living through the greatest mass extinction event of the last few of million years. A lot of this effort could go instead into finding a better cohabitation between humans and the other species with whom we supposedly share the planet.
- tomrod 12y ago
  Until when? The next large asteroid? The next close-by gamma burst? The sun goes nova? Let's go see the universe, and take life along with us.

zepolud 12y ago

Test pilots? In the 21st century? I find it absolutely reckless and inexcusable to require live humans riding on a prototype rocket when you have all the processing power needed to automate/remote manage the vehicle literally in your pocket. EDIT: To those downvoting, you should really check that all current spaceplanes have the capability to fly and land autonomously--Boeing X-37, Dream Chaser, even Buran was fully autonomous and that was 25 years ago. There is simply no excuse for Virgin for being sloppy.

nawitus 12y ago
>I find it absolutely reckless and inexcusable to require live humans riding on a prototype rocket when you have all the processing power needed to automate/remote manage the vehicle literally in your pocket. I think people should make that decision themselves.
apr 12y ago
I think armchair quarterbacking is reckless and inexcusable. These people has been working on airplanes and space crafts for some time now and I would trust their judgment. Especially given that they put their own lives on the line.
- zepolud 12y ago
  "These people" that designed the spaceplane didn't put their lives on the line, they put the lives of the pilots on the line. And I would trust the judgment of the engineers at Boeing, Sierra Nevada, SpaceX, Lockheed-Martin and the entire Soviet space program over theirs.
  - winslow 12y ago
    Really... You are going to trust the entire Soviet space program compared to the engineers behind this project? I really don't think they were being reckless with having pilots. Ultimately, their plan was to take other patrons up to space. You will need personal (experienced space flight attendants) while conducting the flight. This is obviously tragic and my thoughts go out to the families affected. However, when you are trying to do something as complex as space travel and leaving earth you will unfortunately have mishaps and deaths. Please have a look here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program#Incidents.2C_failures.2C_and_setbacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program#Incidents....

ColinDabritz 12y ago

My thoughts are with the Virgin Galactic team. Spaceflight is difficult, dangerous, and I believe crucial to the future of humanity. Test piloting is always dangerous, more so with space vehicles, but that doesn't make it any less heartbreaking or impactful when you lose someone. I'm sure they will learn from this even as they mourn the loss. Virgin Galactic, especially those you lost today, you have my deepest respect for Daring Greatly.

Flemlord 12y ago

I was lucky enough to attend the first public flight of SpaceShip One; it was one of the most inspirational things I've ever witnessed. Very sorry for the family of the pilot who died and generally everybody involved.

jack-r-abbit 12y ago

With regular flight in regular airplanes being so common and safe these days, it is easy to forget the lives that were lost so many years ago when brave men and women were testing the new technology of the time. Always pushing for faster planes, longer flights, higher altitudes. Lives were lost every step of the way. But it got us here. Today. We can cross oceans in a matter of hours rather than days (weeks?). So we continue to push the limits. And lives are lost each step of the way. Will I ever reach space? It is possible... but not likely. But I see no reason why my children won't. And it will be all because brave men and women, like the man that died today, continued to push the limits.

DiabloD3 12y ago

Can we get a black border on HN for this?

Icybee 12y ago

What crashed? The mother plane part, or the spacecraft part?

jacquesm 12y ago
The spacecraft part.

boxcardavin 12y ago

This highlights how important crew escape systems are. The issue isn't just crew survival, but also the effect that loss of crew has on the program. If crew loss is a real danger, it will happen, and after it does the PR often kills the public will to press on.

denom 12y ago

China launches 3 rockets in one week[1]. Russia launches a resupply of the International Space Station, ready to fly just 9 hours after yet another space vehicle crashes here[2]. Say what you want about "cheap spaceflight", there is something dysfunctional going on here. This latest disaster makes me wonder if the US even has a current capability of space flight. Pinching a few pennies isn't worth it. [1] http://spaceflightnow.com/2014/10/27/china-launches-third-space-mission-in-a-week/ http://spaceflightnow.com/2014/10/27/china-launches-third-sp... [2] http://spaceflightnow.com/2014/10/29/russians-launch-progress-supply-ship-to-space-station/ http://spaceflightnow.com/2014/10/29/russians-launch-progres...

xi_an 12y ago
Pinching a few pennies is what capitalism is built on, this is why we had fertilizer plants explode, had oil rigs leak oil into the gulf. This is just the beginning if we completely rely on private space companies to do everything.

Aaronontheweb 12y ago

Innovation can't happen without risk - it's a damn shame that pilots lost their lives in this, but it's an inevitability in the course of human progress. Best we can do is learn from the mistakes that happened here and try again.

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Crito 12y ago
No. Absolutely not. The Antares flight used refurb-Russian engines, and Antares could not be used for manned flight anyways. Even if Antares was flying great, the US would still depend on Russia for rides to the ISS. If the Russians wanted to sabotage something to make sure that the US remained reliant on them, it would be one of the launchers that will be used for manned flights in the near future; Atlas V or Delta IV (CST-100) or Falcon 9 (Dragon 2). Virgin Galactic threatens approximately fuck-all of what the Russians do. Their spacecraft cannot bring people into orbit. In no conceivable way did Space Ship Two make the US any less reliant on the Russians.

sparkzilla 12y ago

Yet another disaster for Branson: http://newslines.org/richard-branson/ http://newslines.org/richard-branson/

larrydag 12y ago

This reminds of studying the Space Shuttle Challenger as part of my Engineering training at school. We studied it as part of an ethics in engineering lesson. The Space Shuttle labels certain components as "Criticality 1". A Criticality 1 component means there is no back up system and failure can lead to catastrophic consequences during Space Shuttle operation, especially at launch. As you may guess the O-rings on the Space Shuttle rocket boosters were graded as Criticality 1. The Space Shuttle had over 700 components graded as Criticality 1. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-03-18/news/8601200450_1_o-ring-seals-nasa-officials-shuttle-components http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-03-18/news/860120045... Space vehicles and space exploration is a very dangerous and high risk endeavor. This week we are unfortunately reminded of this fact. Thoughts go out to the families of the brave pilots and those with the Virgin Galactic program.

adamfeldman 12y ago

This is a time when you re-read Gene Kranz's famous speech to the flight control division after the Apollo 1 fire. Gene Kranz is the gentleman sitting in the flight director's chair in the Apollo 13 movie, wearing the white vest. He helped create the Mission Control organization at NASA. "Spaceflight will never tolerate carelessness, incapacity, and neglect. Somewhere, somehow, we screwed up. It could have been in design, build, or test. Whatever it was, we should have caught it. We were too gung ho about the schedule and we locked out all of the problems we saw each day in our work. Every element of the program was in trouble and so were we. The simulators were not working, Mission Control was behind in virtually every area, and the flight and test procedures changed daily. Nothing we did had any shelf life. Not one of us stood up and said, ‘Dammit, stop!’ I don’t know what Thompson’s committee will find as the cause, but I know what I find. We are the cause! We were not ready! We did not do our job. We were rolling the dice, hoping that things would come together by launch day, when in our hearts we knew it would take a miracle. We were pushing the schedule and betting that the Cape would slip before we did. From this day forward, Flight Control will be known by two words: ‘Tough’ and ‘Competent.’ Tough means we are forever accountable for what we do or what we fail to do. We will never again compromise our responsibilities. Every time we walk into Mission Control we will know what we stand for. Competent means we will never take anything for granted. We will never be found short in our knowledge and in our skills. Mission Control will be perfect. When you leave this meeting today you will go to your office and the first thing you will do there is to write ‘Tough and Competent’ on your blackboards. It will never be erased. Each day when you enter the room these words will remind you of the price paid by Grissom, White, and Chaffee. These words are the price of admission to the ranks of Mission Control." Video re-enactment by Gene Kranz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zjAteaK9lM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zjAteaK9lM

badname 12y ago
...and then it was Enterprise, Atlantis etc. No matter how tough and competent the organization is, failures cannot be eliminated when we are talking about so complex systems/operations.

whitehat2k9 12y ago

Another symptom of the United States' inability to compete in STEM.

Cookingboy 12y ago
Yes, because private space flight industry is thriving with success in all the other countries, right...RIGHT?

rainmaking 12y ago

I'm not an expert, merely curious, but didn't Tesla do a test firing for their engine for the unmanned rocket? Couldn't they have done so too?

chatman 12y ago

Outsource all this to India / ISRO.

chrisweekly 12y ago

Tangent: I think it's safe to say that HN -- on this thread in particular -- is populated by many people who are deeply interested in space travel. I'd like to recommend everyone select as their next book for pleasure reading Andy Weir's "The Martian". Here's my GoodReads review: It's not high-brow literature by any stretch. But it's not about the writing per se, it's about the story. I challenge anyone to read it without caring what happens to the protagonist. I recognize that he (and perhaps by extension the author?) may be borderline juvenile on a few occasions... but for me it hardly detracted from the reading experience. On the contrary, I was sufficiently immersed in being on Mars in the shoes of this bold and lonely astronaut that the book per se disappeared nearly the entire time I read it. Pausing to re-read a noteworthy turn of phrase or analyzing it as literature might well have detracted from the author's intent. The story is the thing. For me, the writing got out of the way. And I'm glad it did. This is an extremely well-researched, gripping, exciting page-turner. If you are remotely interested in space travel, imho it's a must-read.

reddog 12y ago

It's a shame that somebody had to die just so billionaires could one day take vanity space flights.

sirrocco 12y ago
Oh bullshit ! Everything is at first expensive but eventually reaches down to the masses.
- xi_an 12y ago
  No, escaping orbit is not for the masses. You will get the VR version of it. Also what a mundane use of the technology, private industry has no incentive to do the science that needs to be done and our space program is dying so these corner cuters can take over.
vacri 12y ago
Being a test pilot for an experimental airborne craft isn't the kind of job that people get coerced into doing.

Htsthbjig 12y ago

The question is : Why don't they use an unnamed vehicle for testing new fuels? In lots of ways unmanned is actually simpler than maned, as the US army knows. Using pilots for testing new things looks to me as extremely outdated, from the old macho days. In the old macho days you had to sacrifice people for learning things as simple as how to control the aircraft over the speed of sound. But today it is totally unnecessary.

GhostCursor 12y ago

Software needs to up its game. Systems should have prevented the requested parameters. Jet fighters do the same thing: convert control to the flight systems within an envelope. Both incidents seem to involve ignition, so that seems to be an issue.

NoNonsense 12y ago

test

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