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Every time something like this happens, I'm just reminded again of how prescient Richard Stallman has been about walled garden stores and why we shouldn't spend

Every time something like this happens, I'm just reminded again of how prescient Richard Stallman has been about walled garden stores and why we shouldn't spend our time and effort developing software for them. If app developers spent even a fraction of their current output on the truly free mobile OSs, well maybe Apple's psychological power over the market would be a much smaller thing.

api 12y ago
Mobile and its existing paradigm is practically a religion in the valley. Have fun yelling at the wind. :(
gurkendoktor 12y ago
While I agree with Richard Stallman about the importance of freedom, this is more the old issue of building your business on someone else's platform, and your cash flow now being in the hands of a completely inconsistent company. This is not about censorship or monopolistic business practices - remember that Apple also makes money off each copy of PCalc.
vor_ 12y ago
I'm not prepared to declare the App Store a psychological and ideological threat because of the rejection of this calculator widget.
- icecreampain 12y ago
  Or because of previous, arbitrary rejections. Or Apple's you-don't-need-x / NOW-you-need-x-thanks-to-our-innovation feature handling. In fact, you won't declare Apple a thread because your house is so full of Apple products that it would make you look bad if you were to criticize them.
- michaelmcmillan 12y ago
  Out of curiosity: where should we draw the line?
- emsy 12y ago
  That's just one instance among many. Other notable examples are: - The female masturbation app (forgot the name) - The VLC/GPL drama - Launch Center Pro - Bitcoin apps - Overcast's near-rejection due to the need to register I can definitely see an ideological threat (sexual content, free software, dumbed down functionality). The psychological threat is that people hold back great ideas out of fear to be rejected. Think different? Yeah, but not too much.
tzs 12y ago
Isn't that like arguing that you should avoid sex because you might get an STD, or avoid flying because you might die in a crash? Just as the overwhelming majority of sex for most people will not result in an STD, and the overwhelming majority of flights will not end with your death, the overwhelming majority of mobile app developers won't have any serious problems with the walled garden app stores.
- Dwolb 12y ago
  No this isn't the same. Stallman is referring to Apple's power over its suppliers (developers who sell software through the Apple store). Because Apple is a popular platform and switching platform costs are high (porting software takes time and money), Apple is able to extract value ($) in each and every transaction that could have gone to the developers or end users. An open platform would remove 1 player from the value chain (Apple) and would increase value for end users, developers, or both.
  - fleitz 12y ago
    Not necessarily, it may reduce cost, however value easily and usually exceeds cost, else a transaction won't occur. Which is why most desktop users don't run Linux despite it being free
    - Dwolb 12y ago
      I think you're right the value would change. However, holding value constant and replacing Apple with an open platform in the game would increase value captured by either developer or end user. One could probably argue the value of an open platform could meet or exceed Apple, given enough time and money.
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        > One could probably argue the value of an open platform could meet or exceed Apple, given enough time and money. GNU/Linux are at it for 20 years with money pumped from Intel, Google, IBM, Red Hat, SuSE and many others. The only success on the desktop is in the form of Android/Linux and Google has the freedom to change the kernel for something else whenever they feel like it. How much money and time is still required?
cwyers 12y ago
If you boil everything down to the most reductionist form, the majority of software development is an exchange of lines of code for food, clothes and shelter. There may be more freedom on other mobile OSes (although I'm not sure which you mean... Firefox OS? Is there another one?), but there isn't more MONEY. Stallman's notions of software freedoms don't put bread on the table. People are more willing to pay for software on the closed mobile ecosystems, for a lot of reasons (ease of use/user experience, hardware availability, etc.).
- walterbell 12y ago
  What are some examples of financially successful mobile software where the value lies in the mobile software, rather than a cloud-hosted server running a Stallman-esque Unix derivative?
  - fleitz 12y ago
    Angry birds.
    - walterbell 12y ago
      They are an outlier, 50% of their revenue is non-software, from brand licensing (theme parks, toys, movies, etc).
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
  - cwyers 12y ago
    I absolutely love questions that can be answered in about five seconds of research: http://www.apple.com/itunes/charts/paid-apps/ http://www.apple.com/itunes/charts/paid-apps/ Most of the games I would argue the value lies in the mobile software, and even for cloud-powered games there's none where the client is valueless. There's also a bunch of fitness apps, photo editing -- one of the top five is an alarm clock! Lots of apps are "financially successful" without just being a shim in front of a cloud server.

api 12y ago

Mobile and its existing paradigm is practically a religion in the valley. Have fun yelling at the wind. :(

gurkendoktor 12y ago

While I agree with Richard Stallman about the importance of freedom, this is more the old issue of building your business on someone else's platform, and your cash flow now being in the hands of a completely inconsistent company. This is not about censorship or monopolistic business practices - remember that Apple also makes money off each copy of PCalc.

vor_ 12y ago

I'm not prepared to declare the App Store a psychological and ideological threat because of the rejection of this calculator widget.

icecreampain 12y ago
Or because of previous, arbitrary rejections. Or Apple's you-don't-need-x / NOW-you-need-x-thanks-to-our-innovation feature handling. In fact, you won't declare Apple a thread because your house is so full of Apple products that it would make you look bad if you were to criticize them.
michaelmcmillan 12y ago
Out of curiosity: where should we draw the line?
emsy 12y ago
That's just one instance among many. Other notable examples are: - The female masturbation app (forgot the name) - The VLC/GPL drama - Launch Center Pro - Bitcoin apps - Overcast's near-rejection due to the need to register I can definitely see an ideological threat (sexual content, free software, dumbed down functionality). The psychological threat is that people hold back great ideas out of fear to be rejected. Think different? Yeah, but not too much.

tzs 12y ago

Isn't that like arguing that you should avoid sex because you might get an STD, or avoid flying because you might die in a crash? Just as the overwhelming majority of sex for most people will not result in an STD, and the overwhelming majority of flights will not end with your death, the overwhelming majority of mobile app developers won't have any serious problems with the walled garden app stores.

Dwolb 12y ago
No this isn't the same. Stallman is referring to Apple's power over its suppliers (developers who sell software through the Apple store). Because Apple is a popular platform and switching platform costs are high (porting software takes time and money), Apple is able to extract value ($) in each and every transaction that could have gone to the developers or end users. An open platform would remove 1 player from the value chain (Apple) and would increase value for end users, developers, or both.
- fleitz 12y ago
  Not necessarily, it may reduce cost, however value easily and usually exceeds cost, else a transaction won't occur. Which is why most desktop users don't run Linux despite it being free
  - Dwolb 12y ago
    I think you're right the value would change. However, holding value constant and replacing Apple with an open platform in the game would increase value captured by either developer or end user. One could probably argue the value of an open platform could meet or exceed Apple, given enough time and money.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      > One could probably argue the value of an open platform could meet or exceed Apple, given enough time and money. GNU/Linux are at it for 20 years with money pumped from Intel, Google, IBM, Red Hat, SuSE and many others. The only success on the desktop is in the form of Android/Linux and Google has the freedom to change the kernel for something else whenever they feel like it. How much money and time is still required?

cwyers 12y ago

If you boil everything down to the most reductionist form, the majority of software development is an exchange of lines of code for food, clothes and shelter. There may be more freedom on other mobile OSes (although I'm not sure which you mean... Firefox OS? Is there another one?), but there isn't more MONEY. Stallman's notions of software freedoms don't put bread on the table. People are more willing to pay for software on the closed mobile ecosystems, for a lot of reasons (ease of use/user experience, hardware availability, etc.).

walterbell 12y ago
What are some examples of financially successful mobile software where the value lies in the mobile software, rather than a cloud-hosted server running a Stallman-esque Unix derivative?
- fleitz 12y ago
  Angry birds.
  - walterbell 12y ago
    They are an outlier, 50% of their revenue is non-software, from brand licensing (theme parks, toys, movies, etc).
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- cwyers 12y ago
  I absolutely love questions that can be answered in about five seconds of research: http://www.apple.com/itunes/charts/paid-apps/ http://www.apple.com/itunes/charts/paid-apps/ Most of the games I would argue the value lies in the mobile software, and even for cloud-powered games there's none where the client is valueless. There's also a bunch of fitness apps, photo editing -- one of the top five is an alarm clock! Lots of apps are "financially successful" without just being a shim in front of a cloud server.