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Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

376 points by calvin_c 12y ago

IkmoIkmo 12y ago
Probably the most interesting thing from Apple today, in my opinion. The ability to buy short term plans from different providers effortlessly can turn my tablet into a much more versatile device, and increase competition and reduce long-term carrier lock-in. It's pretty sweet and if it can set a standard for phones then we'll see carriers become true utilities between which customers can switch easily if they get poor service. In short, pretty awesome. Today's carrier system kind of feels like this dinosaur, like a landline... archaic and unnecessary. With so many people travelling, changing places, changing technology etc, it makes a lot of sense to move from subscriptions to short-time payments, and eventually, pay-per second of use on the fly, directly, without an account or monthly statement, with a push payment instead of a pull payment. (digital currencies being a key element here). Anyway, getting a bit too off-topic here, but cool first move by Apple for sure!
- click170 12y ago
  > it makes a lot of sense to move from subscriptions to short-time payments It makes sense for the consumer, but I don't think that's in the financial interest of the companies who have worked hard to make long-term service agreements for you phone something that is colloquially accepted in North America. I'm with you, I'd like to see the market change. Just.. don't hold your breath. I understnad Pay-As-You-Go is much bigger in the UK, I wonder if that's because the companies there never tried to push long-term agreements of if they've actually found PAYG more profitable.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    T-Mobile has moved off long-term contracts almost entirely. AT&T is pushing their Next program hard, which decouples phone buying from the subscription (I believe you have to pay off the phone if you cancel, but the payments are separate and you don't lose out on a subsidy). Things seem to be moving pretty fast in that direction, and I'm hopeful.
    - jschwartzi 12y ago
      T-Mobile does something basically equivalent, where they give you a line item on your bill for the device payment plus a line item for your subscription. If this kind of card gets common I may have to buy one if I do any serious business travel again. It would be nice to never have to roam again, and instead simply make arrangements with a local carrier myself via the card.
      - pktgen 12y ago
        This is kind of unclear, but are you saying T-Mobile's model is equivalent to the traditional carrier subsidy model? It really isn't, precisely because of the separation you mention - you can choose not to buy a new phone and you won't pay for it every month. With the traditional subsidy model, since the subsidy is included in the base price, you're paying for the subsidy whether or not you're using it.
  - soylentcola 12y ago
    I think the real issue is that US customers (at least) have been conditioned to think of a smart phone as something that costs between $0 and $300 due to the common use of contracts and subsidies. Even if a carrier offers a non-contract plan, they are often not that much better as far as price (with some exceptions like TMobile and some MVNOs), so they balk at paying $650-850 for a handset. That was one of the things I liked most about the Nexus 5 when it came out. Even unlocked you were getting a current gen phone, unlocked, worked with three major carriers and many MVNOs, and only cost $350. At that point, it's not as tough to make the jump and ditch the contract. Without the contract, you can just leave if a competitor offers a better deal or if your carrier screws you over. Even with this new SIM, I imagine you're still either gonna pay full price or you're gonna get it subsidized with a contract and then have the option of flipping over to some secondary plan when needed. Might be good for smaller carriers with good rates but less coverage. Phone works great at home but drops off when you go to another town? Just flip to a prepaid SIM from a cheap prepaid carrier with service in the area.
    - Igglyboo 12y ago
      Yep, no one is going to want to pay $600+ for a phone(in the US). TBH, over $200 for a phone on contract is really high as well.
      - rconti 12y ago
        shrug Just paid $750 for an iPhone 6, unlocked. The alternative was renting it from my carrier for a similar amount, divided into 24 months, and being handcuffed to them for unlocks and the like. By using BYOD pricing on my ATT plan, I pay less every month than I would on a subsidy. Yeah, I'm not everyone, but arguing that "most people" won't do what I did is kind of missing the point-- they already DO pay that much, just not all at once. It's kind of crazier when you realize what people are paying without knowing it. The subsidies are going away -- ATT and Verizon in the US are forcing people into their monthly payment plans -- which is kind of nice, because people actually see what they're paying instead of just seeing it "bundled".
        12y ago
  - justincormack 12y ago
    PAYG and contract both exist in the uk. Initially you had to be able to get credit to get a contract, so eg kids got PAYG. The carriers preferred contracts as it was guaranteed income. Its a bit more flexible now, people choose what they want.
  - spiralpolitik 12y ago
    Originally in the UK market contracts were the norm. Then Pay-As-You-Go opened the cellphone market up to teenagers, people on a limited budget, and people who used cellphones infrequently. That combined with the release of the Nokia 5150 and Nokia 3310 phones drove the market away from contracts. Plus in the UK the regulator is much more active in promoting competition (VNOs, Number Portability, tariff changes are all things the regulator has done to promote competition). In the US the regulator couldn't care less.
    - lanaius 12y ago
      The first successful MVNO in the US came only 3 years after the first successful MVNO in the UK and mobile number portability was put into law in 2003 for both the US and the UK. The additional benefit is that because mobile numbers and wired numbers share the same area code base in the US, US number portability is basically universal. I don't see the basis based upon your listed criteria for saying that the FCC cares any less or that Ofcom cares any more about promoting competition.
      - Ntrails 12y ago
        Slightly unrelated but I find the idea of a mobile phone sharing an area code with landlines utterly bewildering. A phone, that by definition has no fixed abode, is now tied to a location and subject to long distance charges based on that location (As it was explained to me in Canada at least).
        lanaius 12y ago
        In a time when mobile phones were scarce, putting them on a local area code ensures that a large portion of their usage (calling to and from landlines within a geographic space that actually IS limited) doesn't require additional long distance charges for everyone. These days it may seem like a quirk, but really what 20-year-old technology decision doesn't?
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  Is this an Apple thing? People like (first hit on Google) http://www.bluefish.com/dual-multi-imsi,221.html http://www.bluefish.com/dual-multi-imsi,221.html don't offer the same thing already?
  - scholia 12y ago
    There's nothing new about "soft" SIM cards. The problem has been that carriers like them locked to their own services. (This is true in Europe and I assume in the US also...)
- jrochkind1 12y ago
  AT&T, unless they've taken it away again yet, offers an iPad plan that's $25 for 1G or 3 months whichever comes first. Which is kind of sort of a short term plan.
  - mikinner 12y ago
    I am surprised Sprint is on board, they have always been difficult to work with in the past.
- oDot 12y ago
  I'm actually with the subscription model, it gives you peace of mind. The thing is it's done bad in the US. Here in Israel there was a big carrier "revolution" and now you can get a subscription for about $25 a month that gives you 6gb of surfing (then it slows you down), unlimited calls & text and access to this plan in several countries such as the UK and France, with more coming. For other countries it just costs something like 10 cents a minute for an outgoing call. This way I only pay a fixed amount of money a month and spare the flux.
- Steko 12y ago
  A nice side effect should (eventually) be tolerable Internet prices when roaming.
- ejz 12y ago
  I definitely agree with this. It represents an interesting power shift; before the core technology was your SIM, and your phone shifted around your carrier. Apple kind of wants to change this by making it so that the iPhone is at the center, with the carrier being subservient to the consumers' whims. I would think this is a step too far for most carriers, but then again, Apple got carriers to agree to it...
- 7952 12y ago
  In a truly competitive system there would be no need to ever conciously think about the carrier you were using. Your data would just be routed securely using the best means available and people would compete to be the best connection. Instead we have an absurd situation where carriers want to prevent customers using their product!
  - mmphosis 12y ago
    In a truly non-competitive system, we might be more conscious and more connected. Our internet connections might be routed using free high-speed publicly available internet and people would complain. Instead we have an absurd situation where a cartel of so-called "carriers" charge paying customers a toll for using the internet!
    - 7952 12y ago
      The end result of such a system would probably be to charge websites for last mile bandwidth instead of users. In a system with thousands of small ISPs that could actually work well to fund bandwidth expansion. Of course at that point everything would move to P2P and the system would break again.
  - TheRealDunkirk 12y ago
    "Securely." You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    - 7952 12y ago
      I used that word because I assumed that someone would complain that my suggestion is insecure. Of course the internet is entirely built around sending data publically across networks that you cannot trust. If you are building a new system to route data intelligently from the first hop it would make sense to include an encryption standard to make it less bad than the status quo. Having different classes of trusted networks just encourages a false sense of safety.
tapsboy 12y ago
With Multipath TCP across multiple LTE networks, this could enable substantial improvement in network performance. Edit: I meant it as a future possibility
- gcb0 12y ago
  from the screen shot you can only have one active.
- beagle3 12y ago
  SIM = Subscriber Identity Module - it's just what identifies you to the network. To be on multiple networks at the same time with current technology you need multiple modems and RF equipment.
gcb0 12y ago
that probably overrides/ignores the SIM card and use hardcoded GSM ids from the device. as if it has a sim slot plus 3 hardcoded sim, that you can select which one to use on software. so i doubt you will be able to activate those hardcoded sims with any plan that easily. i doubt you will even be able to activate it without apple help. but of course, im just guessing. have no idea if that is the case.
- durkie 12y ago
  what about sprint? I thought they were cdma.
  - jkap 12y ago
    LTE uses SIM cards regardless of the network's voice system.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- gcb4 12y ago
  and correct you are. see this comment that links to the patent https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8468692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8468692 so apple is trying to take over the throne from the operators.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- 67726e 12y ago
  Easier to track for whom? If you think Apple doesn't already have a way of uniquely identifying a device, regardless of location and connection, you're out of it.
hayksaakian 12y ago
Why would they NOT talk about this today? It baffles me.
- sukh 12y ago
  IMSI switching is difficult, experimental and heavily patented by many.
- wy 12y ago
  I agree. Such an improvement of user experiences of mobile devices (tablets so far).
defen 12y ago
So with this tech, how long until Apple starts offering MVNO services? And eventually completely destroys whatever profit margins the current operators have?
- sp332 12y ago
  MVNOs still pay bulk data fees to real MNOs. And their traffic gets lower priority on the network. So the only current operators they could challenge is other MVNOs.
  - defen 12y ago
    Yeah, I was imagining a situation where with "a little more software" Apple products could automatically detect which networks are available, their relative speeds, etc, and automatically use the right one all the time. And they could buy in sufficiently large bulk to get a good deal on the data rates.
    - iamadeveloper 12y ago
      A lot of devices in the M2M communications world already perform operations similar to this with available networks. Alongside use various weighting metrics regarding such as network strength and bandwidth cost to determine which one to use.
- oamoruwa 12y ago
  http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/industries/detail/telecom-carriers http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/industries/detail/telec...
wy 12y ago
This is really an interesting feature (let's say 'feature' at this moment). Actually, in person, I do really consider this is an tremendous improvement for any carrier-required mobile devices. It makes mobile devices really "mobile". Customers do not have to physically enter a local carrier store to add a new line/data-plan or transfer to another carrier. It might save a great amount of time and efforts especially when traveling overseas. Hope it came to iPhone in near future. Due to the easiness of switching carriers, hope it would help bringing down prices.
burn 12y ago
Wow this is a serious game changer, I was thinking about this the other day. I would be great to be able to turn off and on a sim card in your smartphone. So if you were using an iPhone and wanted to use your Android phone you just turned the iPhone sim off and used your android phone without having to call and de-activate it everytime.
- kalleboo 12y ago
  Dual-SIM plans have been around since the 90's. You call a special number (* # whatever *) to toggle which one calls and SMS arrive to.
oamoruwa 12y ago
Apple's position in the mobile device market will only benefit long-term by offering this capability across operators, especially at the international level.
wlesieutre 12y ago
Does it work with prepaid, or just contracts? If you could just temporarily swap over to T-Mobile's $30 prepaid unlimited data, that would be a big deal.
- soylentcola 12y ago
  Not sure. I mean...I've swapped cards to switch carriers before but I never thought buying or swapping to another SIM was enough trouble that I'd need a programmable or multi-profile SIM. I'm sure it's technically possible but the carriers could just as easily make it only work with certain plans. I remember needing a SIM activation kit to get on that $30 plan when I first got it. You couldn't just use any TMo SIM without some code from the kit and you couldn't get it in any TMo store. No idea if the adding of the code needed to activate the SIM would work with this new thing.
  - wlesieutre 12y ago
    I'm mostly thinking it would be interesting for mobile data competition. Though so many people are tied up in complicated family plans that maybe it doesn't matter much. If my AT&T 2-year commitment ran out and I could just press a button, put in a code from a card I bought at Wal-Mart, and take T-Mobile for a 1-month test, there'd be more pressure on AT&T to keep their prices sane.
maximumoverload 12y ago
I admit, as an European, I see no point to this. If you want a new SIM card, and you don't have a contract, just buy a new SIM card and put it in your phone / tablet. If you have a long-term contract, this won't help you anyway. Where is the catch? (Sorry if I am sounding stupid)
- danilocampos 12y ago
  The catch is Apple's supply chain management just got a ton simpler as they don't have to maintain separate SKUs by carrier for each iPad variant.
  - maximumoverload 12y ago
    Hm. In here, we don't have separate packages for separate carriers. For all 3 major carriers, you just get your phone and in a separate envelope, you get your SIM card.
    - dmishe 12y ago
      And that's why you get a SIM pick tool. In US you just get a phone with everything pre installed and sim tool :). So this thing does make it easier for Apple and a bit more convenient for users
      - dmishe 12y ago
        correction: pre installed and NO sim tool
    - baddox 12y ago
      When I bought my iPad 2, they had separate iPad boxes for Verizon and AT&T. I haven't had a cellular tablet since then.
    - sliverstorm 12y ago
      Apple is all about the "just works". "Some assembly required" is very un-Apple.
davb 12y ago
I really don't like the sound of this. The SIM card is the one thing that keeps mobile service relatively divorced from the hardware. I can keep the same phone but change SIM whenever it suits. I can also take change hardware and just move the SIM. I don't need to ask my provider or hardware OEM for permission. I have control. In the Apple scenario I'm giving this up. I vaguely remember some wrangling with GSMA over this. Ultimately, as with many Apple products, we'll be trading control for convenience.
- milkshakes 12y ago
  nobody says you have to use the Apple SIM. it's just a card. remove it and replace it if you do not like it.
  - hayksaakian 12y ago
    Correct me if im wrong: To emphasize the point: the apple sim is two parts: a Literal Sim card, and separate software. If you don't want it, take it out.
  - techsupporter 12y ago
    But that's his point: What incentive does Apple (or any other mobile device manufacturer) have to make devices with user-replaceable SIMs?
  - kalleboo 12y ago
    Now, yes. I'm fine with that. But there were already rumblings years ago about them wanting to take the SIM out of the equation. Obviously that's their goal. As long as the GSMA doesn't allow that (since the GSM standard mandates a SIM card) then this is a fine solution.
silveira 12y ago
In Brazil people have been using things like these for about a decade. http://www.dx.com/p/triple-sim-cards-adapter-for-iphone-4-4s-yellow-194250#.VEA3p611ZRg http://www.dx.com/p/triple-sim-cards-adapter-for-iphone-4-4s...
- adventured 12y ago
  The concept has been around since the first full-featured cell phones became available.
Animats 12y ago
Why not have a phone with three SIM card slots? Avoid the kickback from the carrier to Apple.
- moeedm 12y ago
  A phone with 3 SIM card slots? You don't get Apple, do you?
- drdaeman 12y ago
  Why have SIM cards at all? What's the point in keeping credentials from the legitimate customer? Store Ki directly on device. Modern phones have HSMs so key will be kept as secure as with a "real" SIM HSM, and bet phones could do the necessary crypto just fine. Sure, a customer will be able to clone their own SIM card and share it with others, but I don't think that's a major issue. Logging onto the network with a cloned SIM is certainly preventable, and if you get kicked out every time other card clone logs in (and if that happens too frequently your account gets suspended altogether until you resolve the issue with a human support), sharing would be anything but desirable option.
  - X-Cubed 12y ago
    The nice thing with SIMs is that if your battery is flat, or you put your phone through the washing machine, you can grab the card and throw it into a spare phone (or a friend's) and carry on. If you have the Ki on the device, you're effectively going back to CDMA-style devices, whereby you need the carrier's assistance to move between handsets.
- scholia 12y ago
  There a lots of dual-SIM phones and they've been available for a long time. http://www.phonearena.com/search/section/new-phones/term/dual+sim http://www.phonearena.com/search/section/new-phones/term/dua... But maybe not in the US...
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    They are quite common in the developing world on low end phones. It is not a high-end feature, for sure.
akandiah 12y ago
The concept is called multi-IMSI. It's been possible to do this for a while now.
jlarocco 12y ago
How does this work? I have an iPhone 5 with Sprint, and I thought I was more or less locked in because they used CDMA. I thought I would need a new phone if I wanted to switch to anything else. Would love to know I've been wrong and can switch without buying out my contract and buying a phone...
- jrochkind1 12y ago
  That's why it's on the iPad and not the iPhone, you're right. The latest generations of iPads work with nearly (? I think there was one US carrier that was left out, as well as Canada maybe, I forget) every carrier, which was somewhat easier to do because the iPad is data-only, and the carriers data wireless technologies diverge less.
- abraham 12y ago
  I just depends on what the phone hardware supports. The Nexus 6 e.g. has two hardware variations. The US variation supports T-Mobile, AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint all with the same device. http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/10/15/the-nexus-6-will-come-in-two-versions-for-the-americas-and-rest-of-the-worldhere-are-all-the-supported-bands/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/10/15/the-nexus-6-will-com...
airencracken 12y ago
This is less about switching providers more easily and more about preventing users from modifying even the SIM card. Apple wants you to never open or modify the device in any way possible.
rbcgerard 12y ago
This will be great for people who have different mobile phone #'s in different countries if it evolves that far...
apayan 12y ago
Apple filed a patent on this Virtual SIM card in 2011. More info here: http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/11/apple-introduces-us-to-the-virtual-sim-card.html http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/11/apple-in... The linked article suggests it's a method to save space in the hardware design so the SIM is not user serviceable. However, it also forces you to only buy data service from Apple approved carriers. Notice in the screen shot from the OP's article that Cricket or any of the more affordable MVNO's are not available as options. This change is just as much about control over where you spend your carrier dollars (and, possibly, Apple getting a kickback) as it is about saving space.
- bradddd 12y ago
  People are missing the point that there isn't an actual sim card now, that you don't get the "apple" convenience AND the ability to pop in some random carrier's. It's convenience at the cost of flexibility.
  - bentcorner 12y ago
    That's actually pretty terrible. I was thinking it was a SIM card with some Apple-designed logic in it. Not a baked-in SIM card. I wasn't really considering the device but now it's out of the question. Hopefully they don't do the same thing to their phones.
seanmcdirmid 12y ago
When I was in Thailand, one carrier had the ability to co-opt my China unicom SIM and provide service there. I don't think my SIM was a soft one, I think they were actually co-opting the numbers!
ChuckMcM 12y ago
Interesting they don't mention Verizon. They do mention that participating carriers are subject to change though, so presumably they can add (or delete) carriers from the device.
deadweight3 12y ago
I've known about this for a while, though I don't remember my source. I seem to recall that it was first envisioned under Jobs, and AT&T started swinging punches when they caught a whiff. Although the source appears solid in hindsight, I chalked it up to a subterfuge project. Can anyone who has since left confirm this was the same initiative?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
Evolved 12y ago
I pay $176/month for 3 lines with AT&T and all 3 lines still have the unlimited data @$30/month on them. I can buy 3 subsidized iphone 6s for $600+tax total ($200 each) or I can buy them each at $650. The price per month works out to about $27/month per phone. Will AT&T knock $27 off per month per phone if I buy them outright? The answer is no. I've talked to supervisor after supervisor about it and there is no discount if I upgrade and buy the phone outright up front. So I ask, where's the incentive? AT&T is by no means perfect but given all the traveling I've done and my experiences with Verizon and T-Mobile (never tried Sprint) I've found that AT&T and Verizon are interchangeable and T-Mobile is not quite on the same level. I know my rate plan hasn't become more expensive when I upgrade so how can I expect that it will become cheaper if I bring my own device?
jpkeisala 12y ago
I remember some years back Nokia made software SIM but it disappeared from the radar probably due Telcos pressure. Glad we get something to that direction finally.
BuildTheRobots 12y ago
I'm slightly amazed at the awed coverage this is getting. As others have pointed out, multi-IMSI SIM cards are nothing new, though points to Apple for getting the network carriers on board and sharing keys. Getting a replacement SIM card is not a problem (certainly not in the UK). Most of the networks will happily post you out one for free and you can buy them for virtually no money in all phone shops, most supermarkets, market stalls... everywhere -even in this tiny backwater technophobic village where I work. My worry is that this is the start of a path down to devices having embedded SIM cards that are not user replaceable, or even have no SIM at all and just use the secure storage module built into the chipset. This seems like a bad hole to be heading down as it would directly take choice and power away from the end user.
- hvidgaard 12y ago
  That would be AMPS and NMT all over again. There was a very good reason we switched to simcards.
- netcan 12y ago
  I'm on the other side completely, I'm a little awed at the lack of coverage, and consumer demand for this. I don't think this is a technological thing, it's an industry structure thing. Why do we even need SIMs? Obviously we need some way of deciding which phone should ring wen a call goes through the either, but why does it need to be a piece of plastic. A simple software replacement for a SIM would open a lot ip. You could buy a $10 plan when you're in a different country for a week. If one of those company offering cheap international call sims could just sell you a software sim that doesn't require you to switch over everything. The ability to shop selectively using different providers for different calls would be a profound change to the ecosystem. It'd have a lot of knock on effects. Apple are good at bulling through changes like this. This could be the start. iPad only is a little weak though. I hope their reliance on carrier subsidies to sell phones doesn't impact Apple's willingness to push on this.
  - noselasd 12y ago
    The physical SIM card is secure, it stores your private keys for identifying you, and you can't extract those keys without damaging the SIM card. At least if the SIM cards are produced to spec. Can you make it equally secure in software, or can I borrow your phone and "easily" clone you ?
hazmatter 12y ago
Actually this feature is not Apple exlusive. I created a little project that allows remote usage of multiple SIM cards as a Software-SIM on MTK based Android phones. Forward the commands via TCP from a modified Baseband-firmware. This means you could e.g. have multiple SIM cards for your business trip without changing the card in your phone. Also malicious people could steal your SIM authentication if you use a vulnerable Android phone and use it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_mZyQdEuU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_mZyQdEuU https://github.com/shadowsim/shadowsim https://github.com/shadowsim/shadowsim
kleptco 12y ago
This is about trading carrier lockin for apple lockin, that's all.
lurkinggrue 12y ago
But makes it harder to switch devices... Nice one Apple.

376 points by calvin_c 12y ago

Probably the most interesting thing from Apple today, in my opinion. The ability to buy short term plans from different providers effortlessly can turn my tablet into a much more versatile device, and increase competition and reduce long-term carrier lock-in. It's pretty sweet and if it can set a standard for phones then we'll see carriers become true utilities between which customers can switch easily if they get poor service. In short, pretty awesome. Today's carrier system kind of feels like this dinosaur, like a landline... archaic and unnecessary. With so many people travelling, changing places, changing technology etc, it makes a lot of sense to move from subscriptions to short-time payments, and eventually, pay-per second of use on the fly, directly, without an account or monthly statement, with a push payment instead of a pull payment. (digital currencies being a key element here). Anyway, getting a bit too off-topic here, but cool first move by Apple for sure!

click170 12y ago
> it makes a lot of sense to move from subscriptions to short-time payments It makes sense for the consumer, but I don't think that's in the financial interest of the companies who have worked hard to make long-term service agreements for you phone something that is colloquially accepted in North America. I'm with you, I'd like to see the market change. Just.. don't hold your breath. I understnad Pay-As-You-Go is much bigger in the UK, I wonder if that's because the companies there never tried to push long-term agreements of if they've actually found PAYG more profitable.
- mikeash 12y ago
  T-Mobile has moved off long-term contracts almost entirely. AT&T is pushing their Next program hard, which decouples phone buying from the subscription (I believe you have to pay off the phone if you cancel, but the payments are separate and you don't lose out on a subsidy). Things seem to be moving pretty fast in that direction, and I'm hopeful.
  - jschwartzi 12y ago
    T-Mobile does something basically equivalent, where they give you a line item on your bill for the device payment plus a line item for your subscription. If this kind of card gets common I may have to buy one if I do any serious business travel again. It would be nice to never have to roam again, and instead simply make arrangements with a local carrier myself via the card.
    - pktgen 12y ago
      This is kind of unclear, but are you saying T-Mobile's model is equivalent to the traditional carrier subsidy model? It really isn't, precisely because of the separation you mention - you can choose not to buy a new phone and you won't pay for it every month. With the traditional subsidy model, since the subsidy is included in the base price, you're paying for the subsidy whether or not you're using it.
- soylentcola 12y ago
  I think the real issue is that US customers (at least) have been conditioned to think of a smart phone as something that costs between $0 and $300 due to the common use of contracts and subsidies. Even if a carrier offers a non-contract plan, they are often not that much better as far as price (with some exceptions like TMobile and some MVNOs), so they balk at paying $650-850 for a handset. That was one of the things I liked most about the Nexus 5 when it came out. Even unlocked you were getting a current gen phone, unlocked, worked with three major carriers and many MVNOs, and only cost $350. At that point, it's not as tough to make the jump and ditch the contract. Without the contract, you can just leave if a competitor offers a better deal or if your carrier screws you over. Even with this new SIM, I imagine you're still either gonna pay full price or you're gonna get it subsidized with a contract and then have the option of flipping over to some secondary plan when needed. Might be good for smaller carriers with good rates but less coverage. Phone works great at home but drops off when you go to another town? Just flip to a prepaid SIM from a cheap prepaid carrier with service in the area.
  - Igglyboo 12y ago
    Yep, no one is going to want to pay $600+ for a phone(in the US). TBH, over $200 for a phone on contract is really high as well.
    - rconti 12y ago
      shrug Just paid $750 for an iPhone 6, unlocked. The alternative was renting it from my carrier for a similar amount, divided into 24 months, and being handcuffed to them for unlocks and the like. By using BYOD pricing on my ATT plan, I pay less every month than I would on a subsidy. Yeah, I'm not everyone, but arguing that "most people" won't do what I did is kind of missing the point-- they already DO pay that much, just not all at once. It's kind of crazier when you realize what people are paying without knowing it. The subsidies are going away -- ATT and Verizon in the US are forcing people into their monthly payment plans -- which is kind of nice, because people actually see what they're paying instead of just seeing it "bundled".
      - 12y ago
- justincormack 12y ago
  PAYG and contract both exist in the uk. Initially you had to be able to get credit to get a contract, so eg kids got PAYG. The carriers preferred contracts as it was guaranteed income. Its a bit more flexible now, people choose what they want.
- spiralpolitik 12y ago
  Originally in the UK market contracts were the norm. Then Pay-As-You-Go opened the cellphone market up to teenagers, people on a limited budget, and people who used cellphones infrequently. That combined with the release of the Nokia 5150 and Nokia 3310 phones drove the market away from contracts. Plus in the UK the regulator is much more active in promoting competition (VNOs, Number Portability, tariff changes are all things the regulator has done to promote competition). In the US the regulator couldn't care less.
  - lanaius 12y ago
    The first successful MVNO in the US came only 3 years after the first successful MVNO in the UK and mobile number portability was put into law in 2003 for both the US and the UK. The additional benefit is that because mobile numbers and wired numbers share the same area code base in the US, US number portability is basically universal. I don't see the basis based upon your listed criteria for saying that the FCC cares any less or that Ofcom cares any more about promoting competition.
    - Ntrails 12y ago
      Slightly unrelated but I find the idea of a mobile phone sharing an area code with landlines utterly bewildering. A phone, that by definition has no fixed abode, is now tied to a location and subject to long distance charges based on that location (As it was explained to me in Canada at least).
      - lanaius 12y ago
        In a time when mobile phones were scarce, putting them on a local area code ensures that a large portion of their usage (calling to and from landlines within a geographic space that actually IS limited) doesn't require additional long distance charges for everyone. These days it may seem like a quirk, but really what 20-year-old technology decision doesn't?
MichaelGG 12y ago
Is this an Apple thing? People like (first hit on Google) http://www.bluefish.com/dual-multi-imsi,221.html http://www.bluefish.com/dual-multi-imsi,221.html don't offer the same thing already?
- scholia 12y ago
  There's nothing new about "soft" SIM cards. The problem has been that carriers like them locked to their own services. (This is true in Europe and I assume in the US also...)
jrochkind1 12y ago
AT&T, unless they've taken it away again yet, offers an iPad plan that's $25 for 1G or 3 months whichever comes first. Which is kind of sort of a short term plan.
- mikinner 12y ago
  I am surprised Sprint is on board, they have always been difficult to work with in the past.
oDot 12y ago
I'm actually with the subscription model, it gives you peace of mind. The thing is it's done bad in the US. Here in Israel there was a big carrier "revolution" and now you can get a subscription for about $25 a month that gives you 6gb of surfing (then it slows you down), unlimited calls & text and access to this plan in several countries such as the UK and France, with more coming. For other countries it just costs something like 10 cents a minute for an outgoing call. This way I only pay a fixed amount of money a month and spare the flux.
Steko 12y ago
A nice side effect should (eventually) be tolerable Internet prices when roaming.
ejz 12y ago
I definitely agree with this. It represents an interesting power shift; before the core technology was your SIM, and your phone shifted around your carrier. Apple kind of wants to change this by making it so that the iPhone is at the center, with the carrier being subservient to the consumers' whims. I would think this is a step too far for most carriers, but then again, Apple got carriers to agree to it...
7952 12y ago
In a truly competitive system there would be no need to ever conciously think about the carrier you were using. Your data would just be routed securely using the best means available and people would compete to be the best connection. Instead we have an absurd situation where carriers want to prevent customers using their product!
- mmphosis 12y ago
  In a truly non-competitive system, we might be more conscious and more connected. Our internet connections might be routed using free high-speed publicly available internet and people would complain. Instead we have an absurd situation where a cartel of so-called "carriers" charge paying customers a toll for using the internet!
  - 7952 12y ago
    The end result of such a system would probably be to charge websites for last mile bandwidth instead of users. In a system with thousands of small ISPs that could actually work well to fund bandwidth expansion. Of course at that point everything would move to P2P and the system would break again.
- TheRealDunkirk 12y ago
  "Securely." You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
  - 7952 12y ago
    I used that word because I assumed that someone would complain that my suggestion is insecure. Of course the internet is entirely built around sending data publically across networks that you cannot trust. If you are building a new system to route data intelligently from the first hop it would make sense to include an encryption standard to make it less bad than the status quo. Having different classes of trusted networks just encourages a false sense of safety.

tapsboy 12y ago

With Multipath TCP across multiple LTE networks, this could enable substantial improvement in network performance. Edit: I meant it as a future possibility

gcb0 12y ago
from the screen shot you can only have one active.
beagle3 12y ago
SIM = Subscriber Identity Module - it's just what identifies you to the network. To be on multiple networks at the same time with current technology you need multiple modems and RF equipment.

gcb0 12y ago

that probably overrides/ignores the SIM card and use hardcoded GSM ids from the device. as if it has a sim slot plus 3 hardcoded sim, that you can select which one to use on software. so i doubt you will be able to activate those hardcoded sims with any plan that easily. i doubt you will even be able to activate it without apple help. but of course, im just guessing. have no idea if that is the case.

durkie 12y ago
what about sprint? I thought they were cdma.
- jkap 12y ago
  LTE uses SIM cards regardless of the network's voice system.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
gcb4 12y ago
and correct you are. see this comment that links to the patent https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8468692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8468692 so apple is trying to take over the throne from the operators.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

67726e 12y ago
Easier to track for whom? If you think Apple doesn't already have a way of uniquely identifying a device, regardless of location and connection, you're out of it.

hayksaakian 12y ago

Why would they NOT talk about this today? It baffles me.

sukh 12y ago
IMSI switching is difficult, experimental and heavily patented by many.
wy 12y ago
I agree. Such an improvement of user experiences of mobile devices (tablets so far).

defen 12y ago

So with this tech, how long until Apple starts offering MVNO services? And eventually completely destroys whatever profit margins the current operators have?

sp332 12y ago
MVNOs still pay bulk data fees to real MNOs. And their traffic gets lower priority on the network. So the only current operators they could challenge is other MVNOs.
- defen 12y ago
  Yeah, I was imagining a situation where with "a little more software" Apple products could automatically detect which networks are available, their relative speeds, etc, and automatically use the right one all the time. And they could buy in sufficiently large bulk to get a good deal on the data rates.
  - iamadeveloper 12y ago
    A lot of devices in the M2M communications world already perform operations similar to this with available networks. Alongside use various weighting metrics regarding such as network strength and bandwidth cost to determine which one to use.
oamoruwa 12y ago
http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/industries/detail/telecom-carriers http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/industries/detail/telec...

wy 12y ago

This is really an interesting feature (let's say 'feature' at this moment). Actually, in person, I do really consider this is an tremendous improvement for any carrier-required mobile devices. It makes mobile devices really "mobile". Customers do not have to physically enter a local carrier store to add a new line/data-plan or transfer to another carrier. It might save a great amount of time and efforts especially when traveling overseas. Hope it came to iPhone in near future. Due to the easiness of switching carriers, hope it would help bringing down prices.

burn 12y ago

Wow this is a serious game changer, I was thinking about this the other day. I would be great to be able to turn off and on a sim card in your smartphone. So if you were using an iPhone and wanted to use your Android phone you just turned the iPhone sim off and used your android phone without having to call and de-activate it everytime.

kalleboo 12y ago
Dual-SIM plans have been around since the 90's. You call a special number (* # whatever *) to toggle which one calls and SMS arrive to.

oamoruwa 12y ago

Apple's position in the mobile device market will only benefit long-term by offering this capability across operators, especially at the international level.

wlesieutre 12y ago

Does it work with prepaid, or just contracts? If you could just temporarily swap over to T-Mobile's $30 prepaid unlimited data, that would be a big deal.

soylentcola 12y ago
Not sure. I mean...I've swapped cards to switch carriers before but I never thought buying or swapping to another SIM was enough trouble that I'd need a programmable or multi-profile SIM. I'm sure it's technically possible but the carriers could just as easily make it only work with certain plans. I remember needing a SIM activation kit to get on that $30 plan when I first got it. You couldn't just use any TMo SIM without some code from the kit and you couldn't get it in any TMo store. No idea if the adding of the code needed to activate the SIM would work with this new thing.
- wlesieutre 12y ago
  I'm mostly thinking it would be interesting for mobile data competition. Though so many people are tied up in complicated family plans that maybe it doesn't matter much. If my AT&T 2-year commitment ran out and I could just press a button, put in a code from a card I bought at Wal-Mart, and take T-Mobile for a 1-month test, there'd be more pressure on AT&T to keep their prices sane.

maximumoverload 12y ago

I admit, as an European, I see no point to this. If you want a new SIM card, and you don't have a contract, just buy a new SIM card and put it in your phone / tablet. If you have a long-term contract, this won't help you anyway. Where is the catch? (Sorry if I am sounding stupid)

danilocampos 12y ago
The catch is Apple's supply chain management just got a ton simpler as they don't have to maintain separate SKUs by carrier for each iPad variant.
- maximumoverload 12y ago
  Hm. In here, we don't have separate packages for separate carriers. For all 3 major carriers, you just get your phone and in a separate envelope, you get your SIM card.
  - dmishe 12y ago
    And that's why you get a SIM pick tool. In US you just get a phone with everything pre installed and sim tool :). So this thing does make it easier for Apple and a bit more convenient for users
    - dmishe 12y ago
      correction: pre installed and NO sim tool
  - baddox 12y ago
    When I bought my iPad 2, they had separate iPad boxes for Verizon and AT&T. I haven't had a cellular tablet since then.
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    Apple is all about the "just works". "Some assembly required" is very un-Apple.

davb 12y ago

I really don't like the sound of this. The SIM card is the one thing that keeps mobile service relatively divorced from the hardware. I can keep the same phone but change SIM whenever it suits. I can also take change hardware and just move the SIM. I don't need to ask my provider or hardware OEM for permission. I have control. In the Apple scenario I'm giving this up. I vaguely remember some wrangling with GSMA over this. Ultimately, as with many Apple products, we'll be trading control for convenience.

milkshakes 12y ago
nobody says you have to use the Apple SIM. it's just a card. remove it and replace it if you do not like it.
- hayksaakian 12y ago
  Correct me if im wrong: To emphasize the point: the apple sim is two parts: a Literal Sim card, and separate software. If you don't want it, take it out.
- techsupporter 12y ago
  But that's his point: What incentive does Apple (or any other mobile device manufacturer) have to make devices with user-replaceable SIMs?
- kalleboo 12y ago
  Now, yes. I'm fine with that. But there were already rumblings years ago about them wanting to take the SIM out of the equation. Obviously that's their goal. As long as the GSMA doesn't allow that (since the GSM standard mandates a SIM card) then this is a fine solution.

silveira 12y ago

In Brazil people have been using things like these for about a decade. http://www.dx.com/p/triple-sim-cards-adapter-for-iphone-4-4s-yellow-194250#.VEA3p611ZRg http://www.dx.com/p/triple-sim-cards-adapter-for-iphone-4-4s...

adventured 12y ago
The concept has been around since the first full-featured cell phones became available.

Animats 12y ago

Why not have a phone with three SIM card slots? Avoid the kickback from the carrier to Apple.

moeedm 12y ago
A phone with 3 SIM card slots? You don't get Apple, do you?
drdaeman 12y ago
Why have SIM cards at all? What's the point in keeping credentials from the legitimate customer? Store Ki directly on device. Modern phones have HSMs so key will be kept as secure as with a "real" SIM HSM, and bet phones could do the necessary crypto just fine. Sure, a customer will be able to clone their own SIM card and share it with others, but I don't think that's a major issue. Logging onto the network with a cloned SIM is certainly preventable, and if you get kicked out every time other card clone logs in (and if that happens too frequently your account gets suspended altogether until you resolve the issue with a human support), sharing would be anything but desirable option.
- X-Cubed 12y ago
  The nice thing with SIMs is that if your battery is flat, or you put your phone through the washing machine, you can grab the card and throw it into a spare phone (or a friend's) and carry on. If you have the Ki on the device, you're effectively going back to CDMA-style devices, whereby you need the carrier's assistance to move between handsets.
scholia 12y ago
There a lots of dual-SIM phones and they've been available for a long time. http://www.phonearena.com/search/section/new-phones/term/dual+sim http://www.phonearena.com/search/section/new-phones/term/dua... But maybe not in the US...
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  They are quite common in the developing world on low end phones. It is not a high-end feature, for sure.

akandiah 12y ago

The concept is called multi-IMSI. It's been possible to do this for a while now.

jlarocco 12y ago

How does this work? I have an iPhone 5 with Sprint, and I thought I was more or less locked in because they used CDMA. I thought I would need a new phone if I wanted to switch to anything else. Would love to know I've been wrong and can switch without buying out my contract and buying a phone...

jrochkind1 12y ago
That's why it's on the iPad and not the iPhone, you're right. The latest generations of iPads work with nearly (? I think there was one US carrier that was left out, as well as Canada maybe, I forget) every carrier, which was somewhat easier to do because the iPad is data-only, and the carriers data wireless technologies diverge less.
abraham 12y ago
I just depends on what the phone hardware supports. The Nexus 6 e.g. has two hardware variations. The US variation supports T-Mobile, AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint all with the same device. http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/10/15/the-nexus-6-will-come-in-two-versions-for-the-americas-and-rest-of-the-worldhere-are-all-the-supported-bands/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/10/15/the-nexus-6-will-com...

airencracken 12y ago

This is less about switching providers more easily and more about preventing users from modifying even the SIM card. Apple wants you to never open or modify the device in any way possible.

rbcgerard 12y ago

This will be great for people who have different mobile phone #'s in different countries if it evolves that far...

apayan 12y ago

Apple filed a patent on this Virtual SIM card in 2011. More info here: http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/11/apple-introduces-us-to-the-virtual-sim-card.html http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/11/apple-in... The linked article suggests it's a method to save space in the hardware design so the SIM is not user serviceable. However, it also forces you to only buy data service from Apple approved carriers. Notice in the screen shot from the OP's article that Cricket or any of the more affordable MVNO's are not available as options. This change is just as much about control over where you spend your carrier dollars (and, possibly, Apple getting a kickback) as it is about saving space.

bradddd 12y ago
People are missing the point that there isn't an actual sim card now, that you don't get the "apple" convenience AND the ability to pop in some random carrier's. It's convenience at the cost of flexibility.
- bentcorner 12y ago
  That's actually pretty terrible. I was thinking it was a SIM card with some Apple-designed logic in it. Not a baked-in SIM card. I wasn't really considering the device but now it's out of the question. Hopefully they don't do the same thing to their phones.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

When I was in Thailand, one carrier had the ability to co-opt my China unicom SIM and provide service there. I don't think my SIM was a soft one, I think they were actually co-opting the numbers!

ChuckMcM 12y ago

Interesting they don't mention Verizon. They do mention that participating carriers are subject to change though, so presumably they can add (or delete) carriers from the device.

deadweight3 12y ago

I've known about this for a while, though I don't remember my source. I seem to recall that it was first envisioned under Jobs, and AT&T started swinging punches when they caught a whiff. Although the source appears solid in hindsight, I chalked it up to a subterfuge project. Can anyone who has since left confirm this was the same initiative?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

Evolved 12y ago

I pay $176/month for 3 lines with AT&T and all 3 lines still have the unlimited data @$30/month on them. I can buy 3 subsidized iphone 6s for $600+tax total ($200 each) or I can buy them each at $650. The price per month works out to about $27/month per phone. Will AT&T knock $27 off per month per phone if I buy them outright? The answer is no. I've talked to supervisor after supervisor about it and there is no discount if I upgrade and buy the phone outright up front. So I ask, where's the incentive? AT&T is by no means perfect but given all the traveling I've done and my experiences with Verizon and T-Mobile (never tried Sprint) I've found that AT&T and Verizon are interchangeable and T-Mobile is not quite on the same level. I know my rate plan hasn't become more expensive when I upgrade so how can I expect that it will become cheaper if I bring my own device?

jpkeisala 12y ago

I remember some years back Nokia made software SIM but it disappeared from the radar probably due Telcos pressure. Glad we get something to that direction finally.

BuildTheRobots 12y ago

I'm slightly amazed at the awed coverage this is getting. As others have pointed out, multi-IMSI SIM cards are nothing new, though points to Apple for getting the network carriers on board and sharing keys. Getting a replacement SIM card is not a problem (certainly not in the UK). Most of the networks will happily post you out one for free and you can buy them for virtually no money in all phone shops, most supermarkets, market stalls... everywhere -even in this tiny backwater technophobic village where I work. My worry is that this is the start of a path down to devices having embedded SIM cards that are not user replaceable, or even have no SIM at all and just use the secure storage module built into the chipset. This seems like a bad hole to be heading down as it would directly take choice and power away from the end user.

hvidgaard 12y ago
That would be AMPS and NMT all over again. There was a very good reason we switched to simcards.
netcan 12y ago
I'm on the other side completely, I'm a little awed at the lack of coverage, and consumer demand for this. I don't think this is a technological thing, it's an industry structure thing. Why do we even need SIMs? Obviously we need some way of deciding which phone should ring wen a call goes through the either, but why does it need to be a piece of plastic. A simple software replacement for a SIM would open a lot ip. You could buy a $10 plan when you're in a different country for a week. If one of those company offering cheap international call sims could just sell you a software sim that doesn't require you to switch over everything. The ability to shop selectively using different providers for different calls would be a profound change to the ecosystem. It'd have a lot of knock on effects. Apple are good at bulling through changes like this. This could be the start. iPad only is a little weak though. I hope their reliance on carrier subsidies to sell phones doesn't impact Apple's willingness to push on this.
- noselasd 12y ago
  The physical SIM card is secure, it stores your private keys for identifying you, and you can't extract those keys without damaging the SIM card. At least if the SIM cards are produced to spec. Can you make it equally secure in software, or can I borrow your phone and "easily" clone you ?

hazmatter 12y ago

Actually this feature is not Apple exlusive. I created a little project that allows remote usage of multiple SIM cards as a Software-SIM on MTK based Android phones. Forward the commands via TCP from a modified Baseband-firmware. This means you could e.g. have multiple SIM cards for your business trip without changing the card in your phone. Also malicious people could steal your SIM authentication if you use a vulnerable Android phone and use it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_mZyQdEuU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_mZyQdEuU https://github.com/shadowsim/shadowsim https://github.com/shadowsim/shadowsim

kleptco 12y ago

This is about trading carrier lockin for apple lockin, that's all.

lurkinggrue 12y ago

But makes it harder to switch devices... Nice one Apple.