4 ms·

I don't understand this argument. Wouldn't law enforcement still be allowed to access phone records unecrypted if they have an actual suspect and court order?

gnarbarian 12y ago
Yes but they want the data on the mobile device. For example, I use textsecure when texting my friends. Its encrypted locally and over the wire so the records would only help them show who not what I was talking about.
rscott 12y ago
Probably harder and takes longer than searching through a confiscated phone from a suspect.
- scott_karana 12y ago
  Bingo! You can, as far as I know, confiscate and search a suspect just based on probable cause, whereas you'd need to have at least a subpoena if not a warrant to get wiretap authorization or phone records.
  - plorg 12y ago
    A recent Supreme Court ruling[0] makes it unlawful for authorities to search confiscated cell phones without a warrant. They could, theoretically, confiscate your phone based on probable cause, but searching it would be a different matter. [0] http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/13-132_8l9c.pdf http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/13-132_8l9c.pdf
    - scott_karana 12y ago
      Oh, excellent! At least that prevents overt searches.
williamcotton 12y ago
With end-to-end encryption where the messages are encrypted and decrypted on the client it would not be possible for anyone with access to phone records or central servers to read what was said. They would need to obtain the private keys that are generated on the client devices themselves.
- brational 12y ago
  But they'd still be able to do that given a warrant? Or is this unwarrantable protection, for lack of a better word?
  - chaz72 12y ago
    Nope. They could use a warrant to compel the sender or the recipient of the messages to unlock them or face jail time. But Apple doesn't have the keys.
    - netcraft 12y ago
      wouldn't the 5th amendment protect against that?
      - chaz72 12y ago
        er - possibly, I'm not a lawyer. I read it somewhere on the internet and it sounded credible at the time.
      - smtddr 12y ago
        I think the most important thing here is that law enforcement must approach the individual. What happens next may end up a complicate web of legal acrobatics, but the individual at least knows the law is after them. That's a good thing, IMHO. If your privacy is being violated by police forcing you to open your phone to them... at least you know the "when", "how" and "what" info they're getting. I'm also pretty sure you'd at least have a strong suspicion on the "why" it's happening to you as well - fair or otherwise.
      - 12y ago

gnarbarian 12y ago

Yes but they want the data on the mobile device. For example, I use textsecure when texting my friends. Its encrypted locally and over the wire so the records would only help them show who not what I was talking about.

rscott 12y ago

Probably harder and takes longer than searching through a confiscated phone from a suspect.

scott_karana 12y ago
Bingo! You can, as far as I know, confiscate and search a suspect just based on probable cause, whereas you'd need to have at least a subpoena if not a warrant to get wiretap authorization or phone records.
- plorg 12y ago
  A recent Supreme Court ruling[0] makes it unlawful for authorities to search confiscated cell phones without a warrant. They could, theoretically, confiscate your phone based on probable cause, but searching it would be a different matter. [0] http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/13-132_8l9c.pdf http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/13-132_8l9c.pdf
  - scott_karana 12y ago
    Oh, excellent! At least that prevents overt searches.

williamcotton 12y ago

With end-to-end encryption where the messages are encrypted and decrypted on the client it would not be possible for anyone with access to phone records or central servers to read what was said. They would need to obtain the private keys that are generated on the client devices themselves.

brational 12y ago
But they'd still be able to do that given a warrant? Or is this unwarrantable protection, for lack of a better word?
- chaz72 12y ago
  Nope. They could use a warrant to compel the sender or the recipient of the messages to unlock them or face jail time. But Apple doesn't have the keys.
  - netcraft 12y ago
    wouldn't the 5th amendment protect against that?
    - chaz72 12y ago
      er - possibly, I'm not a lawyer. I read it somewhere on the internet and it sounded credible at the time.
    - smtddr 12y ago
      I think the most important thing here is that law enforcement must approach the individual. What happens next may end up a complicate web of legal acrobatics, but the individual at least knows the law is after them. That's a good thing, IMHO. If your privacy is being violated by police forcing you to open your phone to them... at least you know the "when", "how" and "what" info they're getting. I'm also pretty sure you'd at least have a strong suspicion on the "why" it's happening to you as well - fair or otherwise.
    - 12y ago