10 ms·

I’m tired. So I’m selling my game that just went viral

384 points by napsterbr 12y ago

templeos2 12y ago
God is perfectly just. How would you like to be invited to hang-out in the whitehouse main room? That kind of perk is priceless but no money. Talk with God about dinosaurs... or make money. If you make money, you don't get the angel perks. Best songs in eternity.
danielrhodes 12y ago
Stress can really drive people to make bad decisions. He should step back, take a breath of fresh air, and then get back to work.
fsk 12y ago
My advice - don't sell. First, it's hard to put a value on it. It isn't clear than the buyer would make enough revenue to keep up with the expense of keeping it running. Second, you aren't obligated to respond to everyone who sent you an E-Mail or message. Wait a couple of weeks, and then start looking at them. Third, you aren't considering user retention. You had 6k unique visitors today. There is no guarantee you will still have 6k unique visitors in a month. Fourth, as long as your income from ads and payments cover the expenses, leave it running. Finally, if you do retain an audience of 1k+, now you have a customer base for whenever you launch your next project.
napsterbr 12y ago
Hey, I'm Renato. I really don't know what to do. Many people told me if I hire a team, or at least one developer, this would help me get going with the game. This does make sense. However I've been extremely stressful for the last hours. I guess this really is a bad decision, but one that would free myself for university and other projects I have. The problem is I can't stand to spend my whole day working only on Hacker Experience anymore. I already have other projects that I want to work full time with. Happy to hear any advice from you. I have no experience at all with business, marketing or even start-ups. I'm just a programmer. Thanks!
- victorfigol 12y ago
  Hiring a developer will increase your stress. Bad idea. Find a partner that knows how to code.
- AYBABTME 12y ago
  Just wait a few days until things settle down before making any decisions. Seems the stress of the events is still fresh, don't make any final decisions just now. That's a general lesson in life. Know yourself and know when you're being afraid, when you're being irrational. And postpone taking decisions that can wait a few days.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- bpizzi 12y ago
  Hey Renato, good job you did here, but I would honestly don't sell and I'll definitely don't buy. See, I've been wandering on HE a couple of hours yesterday, and your project seems to have some serious execution flaws (bad ui, downtimes, social based income, etc). Nothing serious for a side project but these are definite blockers if you ask for a 50k something. Not mentionning the stack: slackware (honestly?), php and python (why two langages?), no framework. The last one could be the main reason you are struggling to keep it afloat, and that at least throws a big red flag: "I'm gonna head troubles if I'm gonna buy". And the business side doesn't seems to be worth it. My 2 cents on selling/buying webapps : I would be keen on paying 10K on a website-based business with 10 long-time customers paying 100$ each month. That's not the kind of deal you seems to be after, but I think this is somehow the standard for serious buyers on the market. Why so low you may ask? Because if I understand your project to the point I could buy it, then that means I can replicate your little business. I'm only buying time, and I think it would take ~10 months to build that webapp and gather some ~10 customers (maybe yours, now I know your flaws...). And that means buying a strong problem solving webapp, not a niche online game. If the webapp is very well executed then I would maybe push to 15K per 10 recurring customers, not more. And I don't care the market size: it's for the potential 100 recurring customers that I would be in, not for the seldom social viralisation peak with an only 1 or 2% conversion. In a nutshell: don't loose your time trying too hard to sell it. If it sells then congrats, but you should spend your time fixing the UI to keep your players onboard, writing a great FAQ that handle the tickets, and boosting your infra so you that you're not needed around when it collapse. Because after that you're done: let it live alone and enjoy your 1000$/month. Based on my experience there's little chance you'll reproduce that for the years coming. But that's still a good feat for your age and experience, kuddos and congrats to you ;)
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
victorfigol 12y ago
I doubt anyone will want to buy your game. It is not that it is not good but without you in the price it is not worth it, they will not be able to improve it or even maintain it. The learning curve in order to maintain that game will be very expensive. Also success is not guaranteed yet, now is the time your game is growing do not let go. Just take a trip somewhere to relax. Also find a partner, if you were working on this with someone else, you would have much less stress. Working alone is very unhealthy and extremely stressful. Either partner with someone or balance life and work which might be hard since you have to study too. Go to forums where other programmers that love making games are and find someone to become your partner.
ddingus 12y ago
Why not take the modest income and pay somebody to improve the game and or it's traffic? Seems to me, you could find another University student looking to grow traffic as part of their studies. Collaborate on this. Take another small share and pay somebody to do a little support for those users worth responding to. As others have said, you could potentially benefit from this in the future. Right now, you are just a programmer. Continue that. Do well, grow. But, a programmer who understands some business has serious potential. Seems to me you just created the perfect lesson plan. This little project won't take that much to treat like a business and if you make a couple of friends, who knows where you all might go in the future? You would be able to learn how to better execute on an idea, get a lot of very interesting user metrics, have a following, show income, etc... Consider this. I would in a second. A few hours here and there just isn't going to impact your studies. However, those few hours here and there could really educate you in ways you will find difficult to realize in a strictly academic environment. This is worth more to you than you currently realize. Nice work :)
- napsterbr 12y ago
  Thanks, this is something that I should try.
  - jsudhams 12y ago
    Let me know if you want, i can provide support some nominal charge for 2-4 hours a day. You can contact me at mail provided in the profile
  - jagermo 12y ago
    please do this. I just signed up (sorry for the additional load) and it looks fantastic. Reminds me of Uplink in a modern setting. Plus, as a dad of a 4 month old, this looks like the perfect pasttime when the small one wakes up in early morning. Please reach out. You have done an amazing job and should keep it up.
    - tux3 12y ago
      >Reminds me of Uplink in a modern setting. You just made me sign up.
ethana 12y ago
I too advice you not to sell it. Branding is a hard commodity to come by. Give it a week or two before doing anything hasty. The Flappy Bird guy ran into similar situation, but he kept it running. Perhaps there are some lessons to take away from that.
- nbevans 12y ago
  He didn't. He didn't even sell it. He freaked out big time and just removed it from the app stores, never to be seen again.
  - cryowaffle 12y ago
    This is extremely inaccurate.
  - photorized 12y ago
    He's back promoting a new game.
sdnguyen90 12y ago
I think selling it would be more stressful than just keeping it running. Lots of buyers flake and lots of things could go wrong. Also, how much time do you really need to put into this project to keep it running? This is also a reason why I prefer working on PaaS's for solo projects.. For the most part I can do other things and not put too much mental effort towards it.
meh_master 12y ago
Pretty good time to sell, given that all that traffic will be gone by next week. But I think the dev and any potential buyers know that.
sheetjs 12y ago
> There are two main ways to earn money with this game. One is using Google Adsense. > These values are estimated, but I believe one can get at least $20–$25 per day. That’s about $750 per month. Until you actually see your first payout, the estimate is meaningless. I've heard of many cases where people saw significant estimates and google turned around and shut down their accounts before the first payout. There is an ongoing class action lawsuit against AdSense for this behavior. Relevant discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7776282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7776282
orasis 12y ago
Get some sleep bro. Shelve the project for a while, work on something else, then come back to it in a couple of months when you're feeling energized again.
arjie 12y ago
Don't make a decision either way until you're less excited about this. Sit back, take a deep breath, and then go through with it tomorrow after a good night's sleep. You know the rule: Don't make any decisions hungry, angry, or sleepy. I wish you luck and happiness. Nice work.
zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
First of all, congratulations for finishing your game and getting some success with it. A few thoughts: - 6000 registered users in a couple of days is hardly going viral. It's a promising start but too early to use that adjective (and the numbers are also pretty low). - The fact that you are trying to sell something you worked on for more than a year just because you can't keep up with the email volume is... suspicious. Especially if the income estimates you give in that article are accurate. Why not just ignore your inbox for a few weeks and come back to it later? - I think the answer to the question above is obvious: you know your success is temporary and you're trying to cash out while you can. Sorry for my cynicism, just being honest.
- napsterbr 12y ago
  Sorry for your honesty. OP here. Some people don't think only on money. I created this game as a fun project, for fun, without expecting any revenue. (If I did, it would be pay-to-win). I tried to kill myself last year a few days after I gave a talk at a FOSS conference. Some people can't handle pressure, email volume or too much social contact, specially if they have something called social anxiety, depression, and other things that I do. I understand your suspicious.. However you are assuming I'm a crazy-for-money guy like... many people. If no one buys the game I'll probably shut it down. For my own mental sanity.
  - jamesbrownuhh 12y ago
    Don't panic. You've made a great thing and credit is due, but at the same time you're in the middle of what could just be a brief peak of interest. The odds are good that it won't always be like this (unless you want it to.) Your graph reminded me of a scene from The Simpsons where 'Disco Stu' presents a graph entitled "Sales of Disco Records, 1976-1977" showing a massive upward swing. Seeking investment for his idea, Stu indicates "If these trends continue... aaayyyy!" Not trying to talk you down at all - but if this level of interest is unwelcome to you, the chances are good that it will get better. Most things run out of momentum pretty quickly if you're not actively keeping the ball bouncing.
  - somberi 12y ago
gasping 12y ago
I had to laugh at the revenue estimates based on the peak of a brief social media buzz. Most of that traffic will disappear over the next few days.
- mqsiuser 12y ago
  Yes it will. He tries to cash in now. My "show HN" went peek on HN and then back to what it was before. He is smart: Everything seems fine. From the media we know about all the companies, which have established business models with such figures. But they are the 1%. Taking over (from him) is already so hard: If you were the inventor of [X], you would have done [X]. Taking it over and going on: ~IMPOSSIBLE~
hrrsn 12y ago
Nice game. Looks to me like a modern slavehack. Keen to give it a try.
realrocker 12y ago
Don't sell! Hire someone who will take salary as a profit cut. If I had any money I would have totally bought it though.
jliptzin 12y ago
Congrats on the success. Allow me to give you some advice before you sell, having been in almost your exact position at your age: - Lots of emails/press attention is a good sign and no reason to give up on a project. Focus on improving the game and ignore the emails if you have to. They don't matter - I too had a game go viral (0 to 3 million accounts in about 6 weeks). I was getting multiple acquisition offers but up until that point it was the most exciting and stressful time of my life. I got absolutely no sleep for days on end. But it paid off and I learned more practical knowledge in those short few weeks than my entire college career. - When the time was right I sold, not because I was tired, but because it was the right time for the game and for my future - Shortly thereafter I developed another game which I considered selling early on like you are doing now because I wanted to move on to something else. I decided to continue improving it and it ended up lasting 5+ years and grossing several million $s, far more than I ever thought was possible with the initial version - This is your baby. You are by far the best person to nurture it and turn it into something you're extremely proud of. - Your growth is promising but the traffic right now is too low for you to get any serious offers in my opinion. Keep on grinding, it'll be worth it
- DonHopkins 12y ago
  >This is your baby. You are by far the best person to nurture it and turn it into something you're extremely proud of. That comes through in all the meticulously detailed, earnest and honest information you posted about it. It sounds kind of like you're trying to find a good home and trustworthy owner for a beloved cat who you can't keep in your apartment any longer. Just remember, your cat (i.e. your audience) loves you too. Good luck whatever you do!
  - napsterbr 12y ago
    This is the best analogy someone could come with. It feels exactly like that.
kngspook 12y ago
Pretty cool that you made the forum automatically create account when the game account is made. It's the small touches that make the difference between something people will use and something people love to use. Like other people commented, I don't think your user numbers will hold up in the long run -- not because of the game, necessarily, but because people naturally try stuff out and then never return. Nonetheless, I'd consider buying it, but not at any price that would make you feel good about spending two years coding the thing.
presumeaway 12y ago
Alternate title: how to sneak a For Sale listing to the top of HN.
- victorantos 12y ago
  Why not try selling it on Flippa?
- spacemanmatt 12y ago
  Unless you're calling BS on the guy's reasons for selling, which he has disclosed in comments, I think there's a fully legit HN story here, above and beyond "app for sale."
- bertil 12y ago
  I believe that this particular post is more about what someone should look into when facing unexpected success than driving a good sale price: so far, no one has posted this was a good idea to sell. My reaction is: pay a litt major to respond to e-mails for couple of hours a day. Most reactions are: get a serious business partner. Debating that is a lot more relevant than an ad -- hence the tolerance.
alegrn 12y ago
Here is some math: The formular for the present value of a perpetuity is just present_value := cashflow / discount_rate Given 750$ per month (9000$ per year) and a 3% annual discount rate, then an infinite stream of 750$ monthly payments is worth today 300.000$.
- empressplay 12y ago
  It's so totally not suspicious that an account that hasn't posted for over a year all of a sudden pops up to make a post in support of the author?
  - alegrn 12y ago
    Nope, my post was just meant as some random fact. You can easily put a price on an infinite stream of constant payments. I don't believe the project is able to generate an infinite stream of 750$ payments. But if it could, that would be roughly it's value. By the way, for an investor it does not matter how much effort (1 year, 5 years, 100 years) the author did put into the project. For the present value of the project only matters what monthly payements there will be. If someone can forecast these payments, he can also put a price tag on the project. So it might also be, that there is no more interest in the game in one or two months ... then it would be roughly worth 0$ to 750$ (even if it took much effort to implement it).
    - punee 12y ago
      You probably also want to revise your discount rate assumption.
      - alegrn 12y ago
        Sure. The given assumed discount rate of 3% was just meant as an example.
  - raphman 12y ago
    Huh? You are questioning the commenter's sincerity just based on how often they want to post a comment on HN. Witch-hunting does not really make HN a better place.
mrchess 12y ago
If only it was as simple as using personal time and emotion invested as a large part of the equation that determined a softwares value... we would all be rich :)
dsirijus 12y ago
Find an understanding partner. Since you obviously don't have a clue about anything besides programming (sorry, harsh words, but I don't have the time to type out a list of mistakes you did here), it'll have to be business dude that handles stress and load well. Have him insulate you from the support, monetization, PR, and so on, and let him assemble Terms of Use to be very generous towards you as a programmer in a way that you don't have to respond to reported bugs (especially concerning monetization) immediately but leisurely. Agree with him on the priority of types of fixes/improvements and have him deliver lists of tasks to you on a weekly/monthly basis. Have that business partner on a probation period first, to see is he supportive of your persona and then split profits with him 50/50. It'll be a great opportunity to learn from him strategems of handling stuff you cannot. Aim long-term. These types of games are something people stick around for quite some time. Adjust monetization model accordingly. These numbers you have or project right now are meaningless from that context. Do the right thing and good luck. As a side note, an analogy to first-time parents is an appropriate one here. A lot of them panic a lot when they find out baby is on its way. But I'm not ready! I'll make mistakes during parenthood! Will I be able to support it!? And most kids still turn out just fine. Cheer up. :)
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
nanofortnight 12y ago
Suggestion: Ignore it for a week, don't think about it. I would hardly call that going viral, plus it's only been two days. You're too optimistic, thinking too big. If this is anything average you'll find that most of the traffic will die off after a month.
foz 12y ago
Please remember, that even if you don't do anything at all - ignore it, let it fade, or whatever - you had a great success. Be proud, let yourself feel the satisfaction. Working for years on something and having people connect with it is an amazing accomplishment. If nothing else comes of it, that's OK. You won.
masukomi 12y ago
Re the emails / support / whatever being stressy... dude. It's been like no time at all, and you had a spike. You don't have to reply to EVERYTHING ASAP. All things in moderation. Set up an autoresponder politely telling folks that you're a single person and the spike in requests is a bit overwhelming. ask their forgiveness and let them know that you'll get to people as soon as you can. With that out of the way, congratulations on the spike in traffic. After having been on the front page of multiple programmer sites I can tell you it's just that. It's a good day. You may even get a good week out of it. Unless you are incredibly atypical the spike in traffic will not last. There's absolutely no basis for assuming that traffic will continue at the spiked rate. It tells me your either naively optimistic (sorry to inject an unpleasant reality) or trying to sell it quick to someone else who is naively optimistic. The upside is that the onslaught of requests is that since it's a spike, they will die down and you'll be able to catch up. The longest, and hardest, i had was a project that ended up with me stuffing envelopes every night and making daily trips to the post office sending of letters to people around the world because my offer started getting passed from message board to message board. It lasted about a month. I'm very dubious of the belief that adding "more advantages" would get you a 10-15% conversion without any evidence to back it up, especially when you can't even be sure of the 1% conversion rate you think you can get for the current state of things. You can't extrapolate an enduring income stream (or even an amount of work) from a single small spike.
- patio11 12y ago
  Everything in this comment is correct. If I may also give a brief suggestion, coming from a place of a lot of love for bootstrappers and sympathy for your situation, there is a line in your post which suggests that people compensate you for the 2.5 years you put into this when making an offer. I am afraid that this is at variance to how the world works generally and how acquisitions of small websites work specifically. People pay for their future revenues, not your sunk costs. In the world of small website acquisitions, you'll be valued at something like 1X your previously proven annual revenue, not at a linear projection from what spike day looked like. If that number is -- let me pick a representative example -- $100, then you have a $100 site, not a $60,000 site, even if $60k is a reasonable approximation of the cost of duplicating it using market labor. Also, as someone who also has struggled / struggles with depression: it is much much better for yourself and the world on net for you to just say "I am under stress and cannot email today, therefore, I will not email today." than for you to be adversely affected trying to get people replies to their questions about a browser game. Some people may be discomfit by this. That's fine. There is an entire Internet full of browser games. There is only one you. Do whatever you need to to not have this adversely effect you and your loved ones. Congratulations on shipping, by the way. Very few people can do it. You demonstrably can. That's awesome. You've got a lifetime of shipping successful software businesses ahead of you, regardless of what happens in the next short while.
tuananh 12y ago
This is like the peak of your game right now. You can't take it into calculation just yet. Let it cool off and see. If you get stressed from it, just leave it for awhile.
pouzy 12y ago
Everybody's advising not to sell it, but looking at the game: Yes, it might only be a spike. The game is long to get into, a lot of reading, etc. It's like starting a complicated board game without somebody to explain it to you: a lot of people will just drop it to play a game in which the rules are explainable in 20 seconds. There's a buzz going on around it right now, but don't expect it to be Flappy Bird. So depending on what you want (you seem tired of that game), I don't think it's a bad idea to sell it while it's hot
curt 12y ago
Have you thought about placing it on third party gaming sites? Kongregate.com is a great example (disclaimer I work there), they have a built in audience, handle marketing, payments, customer support, etc so you can focus on development. Solo game development, even in small teams, can be quite the struggle and there are communities that are happy to help.
adam74 12y ago
I'm tired? I don't understand this. It's like climbing a mountain and then closing your eyes. Of course you are tired from all the hard work, but now is the fun part. Relax and enjoy the view. I guess the view for this developer is selling the product.
volume 12y ago
Are you open to different structures of the deal? Like: * some upfront fee * you remain onboard for X months * each time period is a certain % of equity * some monthly fee paid to you until X total
NicoJuicy 12y ago
Fyi, the wiki doesn't contain any content.. If you want to get someone else on board. It wouldn't be a bad idea to fix this (depending on the amount of work required)
fishnchips 12y ago
My €0.02. This is somewhat similar to the situation where a FOSS developer feels the pressure from the users of his software. The more successful their software the more miserable and frustrated they become. I believe the best way of preserving your sanity in this case is just pushing back and allow others to take responsibility. Forks and pull requests exist for a reason. Chances are you're using my open source library for your regular job in which case you (unlike myself) will actually get paid for your contributions. @napsterbr: you don't owe anyone anything. If there's any obligation it runs the other way. Take a deep breath and enjoy the ride, long may it last. One way of sharing the burden of support (which seems to be your main concern) is creating a community and granting most eager and devoted users some 'superpowers'. Makes them happy and they do a lot of work for you. You only get involved sporadically and on your own terms.
nbevans 12y ago
I lol'd when I saw "[the codebase use classes but in an unconventional way]" followed by "[i can offer programming support]" Down-votes accepted but let's face it this guy is extraordinarily naive.
ForFreedom 12y ago
Selling this game or an application when there is high traffic is not the way to handle things. Invest about 2-3 hours daily to respond and resolve any bugs.
iSloth 12y ago
I've been in a very similar position to what you're in now, at university in England and a side project went viral and was making a decent amount of money. In the end I sold it onto someone that gave me a decent offer. Has to be one of my biggest regrets, I could have paid someone else to support it while I was busy with my education. Perhaps the biggest kick was that the person who bought it didn't really look after the site and it went into decline anyway losing most of it's users. Selling might be your best option, however be 100% sure before doing anything :)
Donzo 12y ago
Flippa.com if you are serious about selling.
Donzo 12y ago
Flippa.com if you are serious about selling.
mikkom 12y ago
> At the current stage of the game, one would be able to get about $1000 per month with both ads and user membership. The current usage is a peak because of exposure. It will drop and the ad profit will go way down in the coming few weeks.
TallboyOne 12y ago
That's not going viral... going viral is 8 million visitors in one day. What you have is about the amount of traffic we get in ~10 minutes. You need to chill out.
adir1 12y ago
Just set up something like GetSatisfaction and let community try to help itself, while you rest and get your sanity back. Take as long as you need - a week, or a month, whatever. You are probably in the best position to fix/improve it going forward, so selling it is not an option IMHO. Instead, look around campus for a partner-dev. Even with just one partner developer, to bounce ideas and priorities off, things will become clear for you long term. Good Luck!
_lce0 12y ago
OT, but the correct term should be `cracker`
andyidsinga 12y ago
the Op might consider building some nice sales pitches to different types of customers. for instance, someone in the movie industry might be able to use his for a more realistic production asset!! please, for the love of mitnick, we need better hacker production assets in entertainment!
whocares 12y ago
Hi Renato I am very sorry to hear about your health problems. I don't have the same challenges as you but I do have experience of when a side project explodes. I have a piece of freemium software that has been downloaded about 700,000 times and here is what i did to manage the emails: - set up a great FAQ and put all questions that are asked more than once in there. - if you use a mac get a copy of TextExpander ( or a similar product) and automate all your email replies. Then you can answer support emails with one command. - use a Gmail label to sort out support, and batch send emails once or twice a week. Don't be afraid to ignore whiners, complainers and the people who cannot Google answers for themselves. Take care of your health first and best of luck!
paul9290 12y ago
This seems ridiculous, yet and maybe unintentionally smart too. As it makes for a good story press outlets will probably pick up and write about. It's semi-similar to the Flappy Bird's creator decision to remove it from the app store and all the press that followed. Though maybe it's creator just want to cash out on it quickly and go relax on a beach with nice looking people (who doesn't?). Good luck!
yazaddaruvala 12y ago
Does the code have an automated a test suite? It would be really hard for someone to take over for you without one.
wavesum 12y ago
I think many commenters here have been watching too much shark tank. The old ways of valuing a business based on past revenue work very badly for seed-stage software startups.
cypherpnks 12y ago
I'll make an alternative suggestion. Hire management. You want to sit in a box and code. You want someone to handle business, support, etc. People who can do that are a dime a dozen. That could be another student at the university; someone with an active Twitter account, good charisma, etc. Offer 25% equity vesting over 4 years. That's pretty generous. Keep hacking and plugging, and do as much or as little of the interacting as you want. If the other person doesn't carry their weight -- which is not uncommon -- dump them or swap them out for someone else. Be very upfront about this when bringing them on (if you want, overly upfront -- pitch this as a short-term engagement, with possibility of going longer depending on how business goes). Give yourself the title of CEO and CTO. Give them the title interrim president+COO. Regarding depression, social anxiety, etc., this can help fix it. I've been there. Depression gets better when you have meaning and purpose, and when you're busy enough to not have time worrying about it. Social anxiety gets better with status. When people are competing to talk to you (rather than the other way around), and you're in a position to say yes or no, the dynamic is just different. If this were to grow into a successful company, you might be in a very different position. You've been playing with fixing this for a while. Play with this as an opportunity to try a different approach to fixing it. Again, I don't know you. This could not apply at all. Take this as what it is -- an idea from a stranger.
- orasis 12y ago
  I'm sorry, but this is a terrible suggestion. I ran a company successfully for 8 years and at times made this same mistake in thinking. The only time you can hire above is when scaling a successful product + sales model - essentially when you are no longer a startup and are becoming an established player.
- rrrene 12y ago
  > You want someone to handle business, support, etc. People who can do that are a dime a dozen. Is this really true? I mean that as an honest question, because, while being a coder with a typical distaste for shallow marketing folks myself, I think these "business things" actually constitute work, if done right (first and foremost good user support). I would imagine that there exists a similar comment in a board for marketing guys and gals, where they say: > You want someone to program the database. People who can do that are a dime a dozen. Pun intended.
natch 12y ago
This post feels like spam. I'd hate to see more of this kind of thing taking over the HN front page.
mrpickles 12y ago
Cool project. It's nice to see someone put together something awesome while so early in their education/career and have it work out for them. Shows you've got potential. If I could give you any advice, I'd say think about going to academia. Working in the software industry is all about this kind of stress, and it really only gets worse from here. It's why we get paid lots of money to sit in a chair all day eating free snacks. If this project has been stressful, the industry is going to chew you up and spit you out. Projects follow the same trajectory: you work on a project in a bubble for a long period of time (maybe a year or two). Then, there's a usage spike the first day, the first week. Maybe it goes up (if you're lucky), but it probably goes down. You have to fight to get usage. And then things get harder. Bug reports. QA nitpicks about a million things you didn't notice. Product Developer's decide to change something major and you re-write 20% of your code base. Some of your junior team mates can't handle stress, so their output drops. The senior folks on the team get agitated and are suddenly unaccessible to help you with anything because they have their own shit to do. Oh, and btw now that it's already in the field with customers bitching about it, so everything needs to be done yesterday. You think about leaving sometimes, but you can't afford to be out of a job for a month, and thinking about studying for an interview yet again while working sounds even more stressful (since you haven't really used big-O notation or graph algorithms in your last 2.5 years as a web developer). Not every job is going to be stressful, but the really good ones will. You'll work with people smarter than you doing things a lot of people haven't done before.
- mareofnight 12y ago
  This is a good point. Though there do seem to be a few lower-stress workplaces out there - Vanguard seems to be one of them, in terms of not having much crunch time or overly-long hours. They're pretty sociable people, though, but it might still be something to consider. (I'm a former intern and not currently working there, and not a recruiter; pretty sure their hiring managers don't read Hacker News.)
telltherell 12y ago
This is a clone of slavehack
telltherello 12y ago
This is a clone of slavehack
telltherello 12y ago
This is a slavehack clone
torbit 12y ago
lol what? using medium to sale a product. I was expecting some great insight on why, but it quickly turned into a pitch and then an action to sell.
korzun 12y ago
TLDR: I received a single traffic spike for a game I just released and looking to make a quick buck, take everything and make me an offer before traffic goes away. There are so many things wrong with that blog post.
tux3 12y ago
Well, the site just went completely down apparently.
misulicus 12y ago
Just sent you an email few minutes ago. Let me know what you think :)
biomimic 12y ago
Is this an episode of "Silicon Valley" in the works?
sideproject 12y ago
Want to put it up on Sideprojectors? http://sideprojectors.com http://sideprojectors.com - I'm sure there will be plenty of people who would be interested in your project!
lsc 12y ago
So... I can't advise you about selling. I've bought tiny companies, but have never successfully sold them, and... yeah. However... I do have a suggestion for your sanity now and in the future that doesn't involve selling the company, or at least, not all of the company. Assuming you want to keep releasing stuff direct to the public, I suggest finding a friend that you can interact with, that can interact with the public and other business partners. There are a lot of different ways to structure that relationship; some people get a "business partner" and when the relationship is described that way, usually the partner gets some control over you. This relationship can also be structured as "hiring a secretary" - if that's what you call them, you are implying your partner has less power, and often that you will compensate said partner regardless of revenue, but compensate them less. On your end, I think, the fact that this person can deal with your quirks and protect you from the parts of the limelight you find unpleasant might be more important than their raw talent as a business person, especially if you retain more control over the business side of things. (Note, if I'm reading your personality correctly, and I might not be, you probably want someone who is willing to at least act in public like they made the decision in question. Someone willing to take the blame even if it was actually your decision. These people exist, but you need to be clear, if that is in fact what you need.) I mean, you and your partner need to decide what your relationship looks like, how the power dynamic works, and how remuneration works, and it doesn't have to conform to either one of those models, but I've worked with people that were really, really uncomfortable with social situations; I've been that "human interface" person, and if you find a compatible person, I think it can generate a whole lot of value for both people.
pitchups 12y ago
Kudos on your success! This may be a bit off-topic but reading your post, was struck by the low cost of your dedicated servers at OVH : $116 per month, for a server with "64GB ECC RAM, Xeon E5 3.7 Ghz, 360 GB of SSD (at RAID 1) and 500 Mbit of networking." seems like a really great deal - drastically cheaper than Rackspace or Softlayer for similar configurations. How good / reliable is their customer service and responsivemess in case you have a problem?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
elwell 12y ago
> There are about 60kLOC in PHP, and 2kLOC in Python. We do not use any framework. The PHP code was written completely from scratch. This give us some performance boost, however it might be a little more difficult to understand the code. 60kLOC in PHP from scratch. When I hear that, I just hear that it probably will need to be rewritten. If the buyer isn't hiring you, then that's a pretty hefty amount of code; unless it is written very well.
asdz 12y ago
you sell your game. now I should quit
minusSeven 12y ago
meh this is very early days and so making and comments about the future of the game is very stupid.
nerdbeere 12y ago
I'm not sure if I this is a sign that I should stop working on my realtime multiplayer hacker game or if it means that there is a huge market for this genre out there.
argntnspc 12y ago
Hope all goes well.. I would be glad to help. Let me know.

384 points by napsterbr 12y ago

God is perfectly just. How would you like to be invited to hang-out in the whitehouse main room? That kind of perk is priceless but no money. Talk with God about dinosaurs... or make money. If you make money, you don't get the angel perks. Best songs in eternity.

danielrhodes 12y ago

Stress can really drive people to make bad decisions. He should step back, take a breath of fresh air, and then get back to work.

fsk 12y ago

My advice - don't sell. First, it's hard to put a value on it. It isn't clear than the buyer would make enough revenue to keep up with the expense of keeping it running. Second, you aren't obligated to respond to everyone who sent you an E-Mail or message. Wait a couple of weeks, and then start looking at them. Third, you aren't considering user retention. You had 6k unique visitors today. There is no guarantee you will still have 6k unique visitors in a month. Fourth, as long as your income from ads and payments cover the expenses, leave it running. Finally, if you do retain an audience of 1k+, now you have a customer base for whenever you launch your next project.

napsterbr 12y ago

Hey, I'm Renato. I really don't know what to do. Many people told me if I hire a team, or at least one developer, this would help me get going with the game. This does make sense. However I've been extremely stressful for the last hours. I guess this really is a bad decision, but one that would free myself for university and other projects I have. The problem is I can't stand to spend my whole day working only on Hacker Experience anymore. I already have other projects that I want to work full time with. Happy to hear any advice from you. I have no experience at all with business, marketing or even start-ups. I'm just a programmer. Thanks!

victorfigol 12y ago
Hiring a developer will increase your stress. Bad idea. Find a partner that knows how to code.
AYBABTME 12y ago
Just wait a few days until things settle down before making any decisions. Seems the stress of the events is still fresh, don't make any final decisions just now. That's a general lesson in life. Know yourself and know when you're being afraid, when you're being irrational. And postpone taking decisions that can wait a few days.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
bpizzi 12y ago
Hey Renato, good job you did here, but I would honestly don't sell and I'll definitely don't buy. See, I've been wandering on HE a couple of hours yesterday, and your project seems to have some serious execution flaws (bad ui, downtimes, social based income, etc). Nothing serious for a side project but these are definite blockers if you ask for a 50k something. Not mentionning the stack: slackware (honestly?), php and python (why two langages?), no framework. The last one could be the main reason you are struggling to keep it afloat, and that at least throws a big red flag: "I'm gonna head troubles if I'm gonna buy". And the business side doesn't seems to be worth it. My 2 cents on selling/buying webapps : I would be keen on paying 10K on a website-based business with 10 long-time customers paying 100$ each month. That's not the kind of deal you seems to be after, but I think this is somehow the standard for serious buyers on the market. Why so low you may ask? Because if I understand your project to the point I could buy it, then that means I can replicate your little business. I'm only buying time, and I think it would take ~10 months to build that webapp and gather some ~10 customers (maybe yours, now I know your flaws...). And that means buying a strong problem solving webapp, not a niche online game. If the webapp is very well executed then I would maybe push to 15K per 10 recurring customers, not more. And I don't care the market size: it's for the potential 100 recurring customers that I would be in, not for the seldom social viralisation peak with an only 1 or 2% conversion. In a nutshell: don't loose your time trying too hard to sell it. If it sells then congrats, but you should spend your time fixing the UI to keep your players onboard, writing a great FAQ that handle the tickets, and boosting your infra so you that you're not needed around when it collapse. Because after that you're done: let it live alone and enjoy your 1000$/month. Based on my experience there's little chance you'll reproduce that for the years coming. But that's still a good feat for your age and experience, kuddos and congrats to you ;)

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

victorfigol 12y ago

I doubt anyone will want to buy your game. It is not that it is not good but without you in the price it is not worth it, they will not be able to improve it or even maintain it. The learning curve in order to maintain that game will be very expensive. Also success is not guaranteed yet, now is the time your game is growing do not let go. Just take a trip somewhere to relax. Also find a partner, if you were working on this with someone else, you would have much less stress. Working alone is very unhealthy and extremely stressful. Either partner with someone or balance life and work which might be hard since you have to study too. Go to forums where other programmers that love making games are and find someone to become your partner.

ddingus 12y ago

Why not take the modest income and pay somebody to improve the game and or it's traffic? Seems to me, you could find another University student looking to grow traffic as part of their studies. Collaborate on this. Take another small share and pay somebody to do a little support for those users worth responding to. As others have said, you could potentially benefit from this in the future. Right now, you are just a programmer. Continue that. Do well, grow. But, a programmer who understands some business has serious potential. Seems to me you just created the perfect lesson plan. This little project won't take that much to treat like a business and if you make a couple of friends, who knows where you all might go in the future? You would be able to learn how to better execute on an idea, get a lot of very interesting user metrics, have a following, show income, etc... Consider this. I would in a second. A few hours here and there just isn't going to impact your studies. However, those few hours here and there could really educate you in ways you will find difficult to realize in a strictly academic environment. This is worth more to you than you currently realize. Nice work :)

napsterbr 12y ago
Thanks, this is something that I should try.
- jsudhams 12y ago
  Let me know if you want, i can provide support some nominal charge for 2-4 hours a day. You can contact me at mail provided in the profile
- jagermo 12y ago
  please do this. I just signed up (sorry for the additional load) and it looks fantastic. Reminds me of Uplink in a modern setting. Plus, as a dad of a 4 month old, this looks like the perfect pasttime when the small one wakes up in early morning. Please reach out. You have done an amazing job and should keep it up.
  - tux3 12y ago
    >Reminds me of Uplink in a modern setting. You just made me sign up.

ethana 12y ago

I too advice you not to sell it. Branding is a hard commodity to come by. Give it a week or two before doing anything hasty. The Flappy Bird guy ran into similar situation, but he kept it running. Perhaps there are some lessons to take away from that.

nbevans 12y ago
He didn't. He didn't even sell it. He freaked out big time and just removed it from the app stores, never to be seen again.
- cryowaffle 12y ago
  This is extremely inaccurate.
- photorized 12y ago
  He's back promoting a new game.

sdnguyen90 12y ago

I think selling it would be more stressful than just keeping it running. Lots of buyers flake and lots of things could go wrong. Also, how much time do you really need to put into this project to keep it running? This is also a reason why I prefer working on PaaS's for solo projects.. For the most part I can do other things and not put too much mental effort towards it.

meh_master 12y ago

Pretty good time to sell, given that all that traffic will be gone by next week. But I think the dev and any potential buyers know that.

sheetjs 12y ago

> There are two main ways to earn money with this game. One is using Google Adsense. > These values are estimated, but I believe one can get at least $20–$25 per day. That’s about $750 per month. Until you actually see your first payout, the estimate is meaningless. I've heard of many cases where people saw significant estimates and google turned around and shut down their accounts before the first payout. There is an ongoing class action lawsuit against AdSense for this behavior. Relevant discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7776282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7776282

orasis 12y ago

Get some sleep bro. Shelve the project for a while, work on something else, then come back to it in a couple of months when you're feeling energized again.

arjie 12y ago

Don't make a decision either way until you're less excited about this. Sit back, take a deep breath, and then go through with it tomorrow after a good night's sleep. You know the rule: Don't make any decisions hungry, angry, or sleepy. I wish you luck and happiness. Nice work.

zak_mc_kracken 12y ago

First of all, congratulations for finishing your game and getting some success with it. A few thoughts: - 6000 registered users in a couple of days is hardly going viral. It's a promising start but too early to use that adjective (and the numbers are also pretty low). - The fact that you are trying to sell something you worked on for more than a year just because you can't keep up with the email volume is... suspicious. Especially if the income estimates you give in that article are accurate. Why not just ignore your inbox for a few weeks and come back to it later? - I think the answer to the question above is obvious: you know your success is temporary and you're trying to cash out while you can. Sorry for my cynicism, just being honest.

napsterbr 12y ago
Sorry for your honesty. OP here. Some people don't think only on money. I created this game as a fun project, for fun, without expecting any revenue. (If I did, it would be pay-to-win). I tried to kill myself last year a few days after I gave a talk at a FOSS conference. Some people can't handle pressure, email volume or too much social contact, specially if they have something called social anxiety, depression, and other things that I do. I understand your suspicious.. However you are assuming I'm a crazy-for-money guy like... many people. If no one buys the game I'll probably shut it down. For my own mental sanity.
- jamesbrownuhh 12y ago
  Don't panic. You've made a great thing and credit is due, but at the same time you're in the middle of what could just be a brief peak of interest. The odds are good that it won't always be like this (unless you want it to.) Your graph reminded me of a scene from The Simpsons where 'Disco Stu' presents a graph entitled "Sales of Disco Records, 1976-1977" showing a massive upward swing. Seeking investment for his idea, Stu indicates "If these trends continue... aaayyyy!" Not trying to talk you down at all - but if this level of interest is unwelcome to you, the chances are good that it will get better. Most things run out of momentum pretty quickly if you're not actively keeping the ball bouncing.
- somberi 12y ago

gasping 12y ago

I had to laugh at the revenue estimates based on the peak of a brief social media buzz. Most of that traffic will disappear over the next few days.

mqsiuser 12y ago
Yes it will. He tries to cash in now. My "show HN" went peek on HN and then back to what it was before. He is smart: Everything seems fine. From the media we know about all the companies, which have established business models with such figures. But they are the 1%. Taking over (from him) is already so hard: If you were the inventor of [X], you would have done [X]. Taking it over and going on: ~IMPOSSIBLE~

hrrsn 12y ago

Nice game. Looks to me like a modern slavehack. Keen to give it a try.

realrocker 12y ago

Don't sell! Hire someone who will take salary as a profit cut. If I had any money I would have totally bought it though.

jliptzin 12y ago

Congrats on the success. Allow me to give you some advice before you sell, having been in almost your exact position at your age: - Lots of emails/press attention is a good sign and no reason to give up on a project. Focus on improving the game and ignore the emails if you have to. They don't matter - I too had a game go viral (0 to 3 million accounts in about 6 weeks). I was getting multiple acquisition offers but up until that point it was the most exciting and stressful time of my life. I got absolutely no sleep for days on end. But it paid off and I learned more practical knowledge in those short few weeks than my entire college career. - When the time was right I sold, not because I was tired, but because it was the right time for the game and for my future - Shortly thereafter I developed another game which I considered selling early on like you are doing now because I wanted to move on to something else. I decided to continue improving it and it ended up lasting 5+ years and grossing several million $s, far more than I ever thought was possible with the initial version - This is your baby. You are by far the best person to nurture it and turn it into something you're extremely proud of. - Your growth is promising but the traffic right now is too low for you to get any serious offers in my opinion. Keep on grinding, it'll be worth it

DonHopkins 12y ago
>This is your baby. You are by far the best person to nurture it and turn it into something you're extremely proud of. That comes through in all the meticulously detailed, earnest and honest information you posted about it. It sounds kind of like you're trying to find a good home and trustworthy owner for a beloved cat who you can't keep in your apartment any longer. Just remember, your cat (i.e. your audience) loves you too. Good luck whatever you do!
- napsterbr 12y ago
  This is the best analogy someone could come with. It feels exactly like that.

kngspook 12y ago

Pretty cool that you made the forum automatically create account when the game account is made. It's the small touches that make the difference between something people will use and something people love to use. Like other people commented, I don't think your user numbers will hold up in the long run -- not because of the game, necessarily, but because people naturally try stuff out and then never return. Nonetheless, I'd consider buying it, but not at any price that would make you feel good about spending two years coding the thing.

presumeaway 12y ago

Alternate title: how to sneak a For Sale listing to the top of HN.

victorantos 12y ago
Why not try selling it on Flippa?
spacemanmatt 12y ago
Unless you're calling BS on the guy's reasons for selling, which he has disclosed in comments, I think there's a fully legit HN story here, above and beyond "app for sale."
bertil 12y ago
I believe that this particular post is more about what someone should look into when facing unexpected success than driving a good sale price: so far, no one has posted this was a good idea to sell. My reaction is: pay a litt major to respond to e-mails for couple of hours a day. Most reactions are: get a serious business partner. Debating that is a lot more relevant than an ad -- hence the tolerance.

alegrn 12y ago

Here is some math: The formular for the present value of a perpetuity is just present_value := cashflow / discount_rate Given 750$ per month (9000$ per year) and a 3% annual discount rate, then an infinite stream of 750$ monthly payments is worth today 300.000$.

empressplay 12y ago
It's so totally not suspicious that an account that hasn't posted for over a year all of a sudden pops up to make a post in support of the author?
- alegrn 12y ago
  Nope, my post was just meant as some random fact. You can easily put a price on an infinite stream of constant payments. I don't believe the project is able to generate an infinite stream of 750$ payments. But if it could, that would be roughly it's value. By the way, for an investor it does not matter how much effort (1 year, 5 years, 100 years) the author did put into the project. For the present value of the project only matters what monthly payements there will be. If someone can forecast these payments, he can also put a price tag on the project. So it might also be, that there is no more interest in the game in one or two months ... then it would be roughly worth 0$ to 750$ (even if it took much effort to implement it).
  - punee 12y ago
    You probably also want to revise your discount rate assumption.
    - alegrn 12y ago
      Sure. The given assumed discount rate of 3% was just meant as an example.
- raphman 12y ago
  Huh? You are questioning the commenter's sincerity just based on how often they want to post a comment on HN. Witch-hunting does not really make HN a better place.

mrchess 12y ago

If only it was as simple as using personal time and emotion invested as a large part of the equation that determined a softwares value... we would all be rich :)

dsirijus 12y ago

Find an understanding partner. Since you obviously don't have a clue about anything besides programming (sorry, harsh words, but I don't have the time to type out a list of mistakes you did here), it'll have to be business dude that handles stress and load well. Have him insulate you from the support, monetization, PR, and so on, and let him assemble Terms of Use to be very generous towards you as a programmer in a way that you don't have to respond to reported bugs (especially concerning monetization) immediately but leisurely. Agree with him on the priority of types of fixes/improvements and have him deliver lists of tasks to you on a weekly/monthly basis. Have that business partner on a probation period first, to see is he supportive of your persona and then split profits with him 50/50. It'll be a great opportunity to learn from him strategems of handling stuff you cannot. Aim long-term. These types of games are something people stick around for quite some time. Adjust monetization model accordingly. These numbers you have or project right now are meaningless from that context. Do the right thing and good luck. As a side note, an analogy to first-time parents is an appropriate one here. A lot of them panic a lot when they find out baby is on its way. But I'm not ready! I'll make mistakes during parenthood! Will I be able to support it!? And most kids still turn out just fine. Cheer up. :)

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

nanofortnight 12y ago

Suggestion: Ignore it for a week, don't think about it. I would hardly call that going viral, plus it's only been two days. You're too optimistic, thinking too big. If this is anything average you'll find that most of the traffic will die off after a month.

foz 12y ago

Please remember, that even if you don't do anything at all - ignore it, let it fade, or whatever - you had a great success. Be proud, let yourself feel the satisfaction. Working for years on something and having people connect with it is an amazing accomplishment. If nothing else comes of it, that's OK. You won.

masukomi 12y ago

Re the emails / support / whatever being stressy... dude. It's been like no time at all, and you had a spike. You don't have to reply to EVERYTHING ASAP. All things in moderation. Set up an autoresponder politely telling folks that you're a single person and the spike in requests is a bit overwhelming. ask their forgiveness and let them know that you'll get to people as soon as you can. With that out of the way, congratulations on the spike in traffic. After having been on the front page of multiple programmer sites I can tell you it's just that. It's a good day. You may even get a good week out of it. Unless you are incredibly atypical the spike in traffic will not last. There's absolutely no basis for assuming that traffic will continue at the spiked rate. It tells me your either naively optimistic (sorry to inject an unpleasant reality) or trying to sell it quick to someone else who is naively optimistic. The upside is that the onslaught of requests is that since it's a spike, they will die down and you'll be able to catch up. The longest, and hardest, i had was a project that ended up with me stuffing envelopes every night and making daily trips to the post office sending of letters to people around the world because my offer started getting passed from message board to message board. It lasted about a month. I'm very dubious of the belief that adding "more advantages" would get you a 10-15% conversion without any evidence to back it up, especially when you can't even be sure of the 1% conversion rate you think you can get for the current state of things. You can't extrapolate an enduring income stream (or even an amount of work) from a single small spike.

patio11 12y ago
Everything in this comment is correct. If I may also give a brief suggestion, coming from a place of a lot of love for bootstrappers and sympathy for your situation, there is a line in your post which suggests that people compensate you for the 2.5 years you put into this when making an offer. I am afraid that this is at variance to how the world works generally and how acquisitions of small websites work specifically. People pay for their future revenues, not your sunk costs. In the world of small website acquisitions, you'll be valued at something like 1X your previously proven annual revenue, not at a linear projection from what spike day looked like. If that number is -- let me pick a representative example -- $100, then you have a $100 site, not a $60,000 site, even if $60k is a reasonable approximation of the cost of duplicating it using market labor. Also, as someone who also has struggled / struggles with depression: it is much much better for yourself and the world on net for you to just say "I am under stress and cannot email today, therefore, I will not email today." than for you to be adversely affected trying to get people replies to their questions about a browser game. Some people may be discomfit by this. That's fine. There is an entire Internet full of browser games. There is only one you. Do whatever you need to to not have this adversely effect you and your loved ones. Congratulations on shipping, by the way. Very few people can do it. You demonstrably can. That's awesome. You've got a lifetime of shipping successful software businesses ahead of you, regardless of what happens in the next short while.

tuananh 12y ago

This is like the peak of your game right now. You can't take it into calculation just yet. Let it cool off and see. If you get stressed from it, just leave it for awhile.

pouzy 12y ago

Everybody's advising not to sell it, but looking at the game: Yes, it might only be a spike. The game is long to get into, a lot of reading, etc. It's like starting a complicated board game without somebody to explain it to you: a lot of people will just drop it to play a game in which the rules are explainable in 20 seconds. There's a buzz going on around it right now, but don't expect it to be Flappy Bird. So depending on what you want (you seem tired of that game), I don't think it's a bad idea to sell it while it's hot

curt 12y ago

Have you thought about placing it on third party gaming sites? Kongregate.com is a great example (disclaimer I work there), they have a built in audience, handle marketing, payments, customer support, etc so you can focus on development. Solo game development, even in small teams, can be quite the struggle and there are communities that are happy to help.

adam74 12y ago

I'm tired? I don't understand this. It's like climbing a mountain and then closing your eyes. Of course you are tired from all the hard work, but now is the fun part. Relax and enjoy the view. I guess the view for this developer is selling the product.

volume 12y ago

Are you open to different structures of the deal? Like: * some upfront fee * you remain onboard for X months * each time period is a certain % of equity * some monthly fee paid to you until X total

NicoJuicy 12y ago

Fyi, the wiki doesn't contain any content.. If you want to get someone else on board. It wouldn't be a bad idea to fix this (depending on the amount of work required)

fishnchips 12y ago

My €0.02. This is somewhat similar to the situation where a FOSS developer feels the pressure from the users of his software. The more successful their software the more miserable and frustrated they become. I believe the best way of preserving your sanity in this case is just pushing back and allow others to take responsibility. Forks and pull requests exist for a reason. Chances are you're using my open source library for your regular job in which case you (unlike myself) will actually get paid for your contributions. @napsterbr: you don't owe anyone anything. If there's any obligation it runs the other way. Take a deep breath and enjoy the ride, long may it last. One way of sharing the burden of support (which seems to be your main concern) is creating a community and granting most eager and devoted users some 'superpowers'. Makes them happy and they do a lot of work for you. You only get involved sporadically and on your own terms.

nbevans 12y ago

I lol'd when I saw "[the codebase use classes but in an unconventional way]" followed by "[i can offer programming support]" Down-votes accepted but let's face it this guy is extraordinarily naive.

ForFreedom 12y ago

Selling this game or an application when there is high traffic is not the way to handle things. Invest about 2-3 hours daily to respond and resolve any bugs.

iSloth 12y ago

I've been in a very similar position to what you're in now, at university in England and a side project went viral and was making a decent amount of money. In the end I sold it onto someone that gave me a decent offer. Has to be one of my biggest regrets, I could have paid someone else to support it while I was busy with my education. Perhaps the biggest kick was that the person who bought it didn't really look after the site and it went into decline anyway losing most of it's users. Selling might be your best option, however be 100% sure before doing anything :)

Donzo 12y ago

Flippa.com if you are serious about selling.

Donzo 12y ago

Flippa.com if you are serious about selling.

mikkom 12y ago

> At the current stage of the game, one would be able to get about $1000 per month with both ads and user membership. The current usage is a peak because of exposure. It will drop and the ad profit will go way down in the coming few weeks.

TallboyOne 12y ago

That's not going viral... going viral is 8 million visitors in one day. What you have is about the amount of traffic we get in ~10 minutes. You need to chill out.

adir1 12y ago

Just set up something like GetSatisfaction and let community try to help itself, while you rest and get your sanity back. Take as long as you need - a week, or a month, whatever. You are probably in the best position to fix/improve it going forward, so selling it is not an option IMHO. Instead, look around campus for a partner-dev. Even with just one partner developer, to bounce ideas and priorities off, things will become clear for you long term. Good Luck!

_lce0 12y ago

OT, but the correct term should be `cracker`

andyidsinga 12y ago

the Op might consider building some nice sales pitches to different types of customers. for instance, someone in the movie industry might be able to use his for a more realistic production asset!! please, for the love of mitnick, we need better hacker production assets in entertainment!

whocares 12y ago

Hi Renato I am very sorry to hear about your health problems. I don't have the same challenges as you but I do have experience of when a side project explodes. I have a piece of freemium software that has been downloaded about 700,000 times and here is what i did to manage the emails: - set up a great FAQ and put all questions that are asked more than once in there. - if you use a mac get a copy of TextExpander ( or a similar product) and automate all your email replies. Then you can answer support emails with one command. - use a Gmail label to sort out support, and batch send emails once or twice a week. Don't be afraid to ignore whiners, complainers and the people who cannot Google answers for themselves. Take care of your health first and best of luck!

paul9290 12y ago

This seems ridiculous, yet and maybe unintentionally smart too. As it makes for a good story press outlets will probably pick up and write about. It's semi-similar to the Flappy Bird's creator decision to remove it from the app store and all the press that followed. Though maybe it's creator just want to cash out on it quickly and go relax on a beach with nice looking people (who doesn't?). Good luck!

yazaddaruvala 12y ago

Does the code have an automated a test suite? It would be really hard for someone to take over for you without one.

wavesum 12y ago

I think many commenters here have been watching too much shark tank. The old ways of valuing a business based on past revenue work very badly for seed-stage software startups.

cypherpnks 12y ago

I'll make an alternative suggestion. Hire management. You want to sit in a box and code. You want someone to handle business, support, etc. People who can do that are a dime a dozen. That could be another student at the university; someone with an active Twitter account, good charisma, etc. Offer 25% equity vesting over 4 years. That's pretty generous. Keep hacking and plugging, and do as much or as little of the interacting as you want. If the other person doesn't carry their weight -- which is not uncommon -- dump them or swap them out for someone else. Be very upfront about this when bringing them on (if you want, overly upfront -- pitch this as a short-term engagement, with possibility of going longer depending on how business goes). Give yourself the title of CEO and CTO. Give them the title interrim president+COO. Regarding depression, social anxiety, etc., this can help fix it. I've been there. Depression gets better when you have meaning and purpose, and when you're busy enough to not have time worrying about it. Social anxiety gets better with status. When people are competing to talk to you (rather than the other way around), and you're in a position to say yes or no, the dynamic is just different. If this were to grow into a successful company, you might be in a very different position. You've been playing with fixing this for a while. Play with this as an opportunity to try a different approach to fixing it. Again, I don't know you. This could not apply at all. Take this as what it is -- an idea from a stranger.

orasis 12y ago
I'm sorry, but this is a terrible suggestion. I ran a company successfully for 8 years and at times made this same mistake in thinking. The only time you can hire above is when scaling a successful product + sales model - essentially when you are no longer a startup and are becoming an established player.
rrrene 12y ago
> You want someone to handle business, support, etc. People who can do that are a dime a dozen. Is this really true? I mean that as an honest question, because, while being a coder with a typical distaste for shallow marketing folks myself, I think these "business things" actually constitute work, if done right (first and foremost good user support). I would imagine that there exists a similar comment in a board for marketing guys and gals, where they say: > You want someone to program the database. People who can do that are a dime a dozen. Pun intended.

natch 12y ago

This post feels like spam. I'd hate to see more of this kind of thing taking over the HN front page.

mrpickles 12y ago

Cool project. It's nice to see someone put together something awesome while so early in their education/career and have it work out for them. Shows you've got potential. If I could give you any advice, I'd say think about going to academia. Working in the software industry is all about this kind of stress, and it really only gets worse from here. It's why we get paid lots of money to sit in a chair all day eating free snacks. If this project has been stressful, the industry is going to chew you up and spit you out. Projects follow the same trajectory: you work on a project in a bubble for a long period of time (maybe a year or two). Then, there's a usage spike the first day, the first week. Maybe it goes up (if you're lucky), but it probably goes down. You have to fight to get usage. And then things get harder. Bug reports. QA nitpicks about a million things you didn't notice. Product Developer's decide to change something major and you re-write 20% of your code base. Some of your junior team mates can't handle stress, so their output drops. The senior folks on the team get agitated and are suddenly unaccessible to help you with anything because they have their own shit to do. Oh, and btw now that it's already in the field with customers bitching about it, so everything needs to be done yesterday. You think about leaving sometimes, but you can't afford to be out of a job for a month, and thinking about studying for an interview yet again while working sounds even more stressful (since you haven't really used big-O notation or graph algorithms in your last 2.5 years as a web developer). Not every job is going to be stressful, but the really good ones will. You'll work with people smarter than you doing things a lot of people haven't done before.

mareofnight 12y ago
This is a good point. Though there do seem to be a few lower-stress workplaces out there - Vanguard seems to be one of them, in terms of not having much crunch time or overly-long hours. They're pretty sociable people, though, but it might still be something to consider. (I'm a former intern and not currently working there, and not a recruiter; pretty sure their hiring managers don't read Hacker News.)

telltherell 12y ago

This is a clone of slavehack

telltherello 12y ago

This is a clone of slavehack

telltherello 12y ago

This is a slavehack clone

torbit 12y ago

lol what? using medium to sale a product. I was expecting some great insight on why, but it quickly turned into a pitch and then an action to sell.

korzun 12y ago

TLDR: I received a single traffic spike for a game I just released and looking to make a quick buck, take everything and make me an offer before traffic goes away. There are so many things wrong with that blog post.

tux3 12y ago

Well, the site just went completely down apparently.

misulicus 12y ago

Just sent you an email few minutes ago. Let me know what you think :)

biomimic 12y ago

Is this an episode of "Silicon Valley" in the works?

sideproject 12y ago

Want to put it up on Sideprojectors? http://sideprojectors.com http://sideprojectors.com - I'm sure there will be plenty of people who would be interested in your project!

lsc 12y ago

So... I can't advise you about selling. I've bought tiny companies, but have never successfully sold them, and... yeah. However... I do have a suggestion for your sanity now and in the future that doesn't involve selling the company, or at least, not all of the company. Assuming you want to keep releasing stuff direct to the public, I suggest finding a friend that you can interact with, that can interact with the public and other business partners. There are a lot of different ways to structure that relationship; some people get a "business partner" and when the relationship is described that way, usually the partner gets some control over you. This relationship can also be structured as "hiring a secretary" - if that's what you call them, you are implying your partner has less power, and often that you will compensate said partner regardless of revenue, but compensate them less. On your end, I think, the fact that this person can deal with your quirks and protect you from the parts of the limelight you find unpleasant might be more important than their raw talent as a business person, especially if you retain more control over the business side of things. (Note, if I'm reading your personality correctly, and I might not be, you probably want someone who is willing to at least act in public like they made the decision in question. Someone willing to take the blame even if it was actually your decision. These people exist, but you need to be clear, if that is in fact what you need.) I mean, you and your partner need to decide what your relationship looks like, how the power dynamic works, and how remuneration works, and it doesn't have to conform to either one of those models, but I've worked with people that were really, really uncomfortable with social situations; I've been that "human interface" person, and if you find a compatible person, I think it can generate a whole lot of value for both people.

pitchups 12y ago

Kudos on your success! This may be a bit off-topic but reading your post, was struck by the low cost of your dedicated servers at OVH : $116 per month, for a server with "64GB ECC RAM, Xeon E5 3.7 Ghz, 360 GB of SSD (at RAID 1) and 500 Mbit of networking." seems like a really great deal - drastically cheaper than Rackspace or Softlayer for similar configurations. How good / reliable is their customer service and responsivemess in case you have a problem?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

elwell 12y ago

> There are about 60kLOC in PHP, and 2kLOC in Python. We do not use any framework. The PHP code was written completely from scratch. This give us some performance boost, however it might be a little more difficult to understand the code. 60kLOC in PHP from scratch. When I hear that, I just hear that it probably will need to be rewritten. If the buyer isn't hiring you, then that's a pretty hefty amount of code; unless it is written very well.

asdz 12y ago

you sell your game. now I should quit

minusSeven 12y ago

meh this is very early days and so making and comments about the future of the game is very stupid.

nerdbeere 12y ago

I'm not sure if I this is a sign that I should stop working on my realtime multiplayer hacker game or if it means that there is a huge market for this genre out there.

argntnspc 12y ago

Hope all goes well.. I would be glad to help. Let me know.