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How the global banana industry is killing the world’s favorite fruit
- induscreep 12y agoDoesn't Big Banana invest in GMO stuff to make them resistant to a well known disease?
- scythe 12y ago> Doesn't Big Banana invest in GMO stuff to make them resistant to a well known disease? It's very hard to genetically modify a plant that doesn't produce any seeds! Can bananas produce seeds? Yes, apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_disease#The_response http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_disease#The_response It is an ongoing research project. The Gros Michel itself is not gone; there are a number of plants still living, but currently they are trying to deal with the strange banana chromosomes: bananas have three chromosomes -- an odd number!
- whyenot 12y ago> It's very hard to genetically modify a plant that doesn't produce any seeds! Huh? Gene modification in plants is almost always done on individual cells that are then grown into fully-differentiated plants using tissue culture techniques. There are well established protocols for this. Bananas are routinely grown from tissue culture. Here is an example of a genetically modified banana: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/here-come-the-super-bananas http://motherboard.vice.com/read/here-come-the-super-bananas
- bduerst 12y agoDepends on the method. Gene guns work best with embryonic tissue, which is found in the seeds. The Agrobacteria method can use just about any tissue, but doesn't work for all plants. That article talks about them applying for clinical trials, but I'm pretty sure they don't have the carotene transformed banana plant yet (unless it's unpublished).
- noselasd 12y agoBanana trees that's used commercially are cloned by taking off-shoots, and are sterile. It's quite hard, if not impossible, to alter their genetics. Likewise it's hard to breed new banana trees that produce suitable fruits.
- rrmoelker 12y agoThey don't really seem to be sterile, rather just highly unlikely to get offspring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_disease#Banana_breeding_impeded_by_triploidy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_disease#Banana_breeding_... It seems that with each meiosis step the banana plants become less fertile.
- DanBC 12y agoOne interesting bit of research tends to look at the wild variety of crops -- "crop - wild relatives". The BBC has an excellent series, downloadable as podcasts. Here's the episode talking about Nikolai Vavilov. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p023wd2y http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p023wd2y
- bane 12y agoFun fact, wild bananas are tiny and full of seeds. There's a lot of money being spent sequencing and understanding bananas in order to fight this kind of problem. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48150458/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/smart-bunch-scientists-unpeel-bananas-genome/#.VBCtGmSwIhw http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48150458/ns/technology_and_science... Because of how domesticated bananas are reproduced, it's a good lesson on the problems with monoculture.
- noonespecial 12y agoWe grow one of these strains in our back yard here in southern Florida. You can't peel them and eat them like a "regular" banana, but you can slice the fruit from around the seeds (in the middle) and make some awesome banana bread the taste of which is quite simply impossible to achieve with store bought bananas. My kids say they taste "way more banana-y" than the ones from the store.
- electromagnetic 12y agoIt could just be because you're harvesting them when ripe, similar to how tomatoes grown in your garden seem to have 10 times the flavour as the store bought ones. However, I wouldn't rule out a difference in the actual flavour being a big factor too.
- oftenwrong 12y agoThis site has a lot of info about ripeness and growing bananas in general. It is practically obligatory when banana-related articles come up. http://webebananas.com/culture.html http://webebananas.com/culture.html >Maturity and ripeness are two different things. Mature bananas may be picked green and will ripen off of the tree. This is how all commercial bananas which you purchase in the supermarket are done. Immature bananas will not ripen properly. Hanging time on the tree, to achieve maturity is different for each variety. I have ripened Kru fruit after only 6 weeks hanging time. However, my first bunch of Saba fruit required 11 months on the tree before ripening. >Color change is evidence of ripening. Different varieties have different shades of yellow when ripe. Once again, becoming familiar with your particular variety is crucial. >Knowing when to pick your bananas is the final step in enjoying your harvest. I approach each new variety this way: when the first hand (not the flower) appears, (this is the most important step) I write the date on the side of the stalk with a felt pen. After 6 months, if they have not shown any color change, I cut off the top (oldest) hand, and allow it to ripen (usually in a couple weeks). If it is OK, I continue removing hands as I need them. Eventually the rest will ripen on the “tree”.
- junto 12y agoAcross the western world, parents with small children are panicking! Across Latin America are panicking because their entire livelihoods are threatened by this. FYI: Bananas are a parents goto fruit when your child is hungry and needs something healthy that is bulky and quick.
- mogrim 12y ago> FYI: Bananas are a parents goto fruit when your child is hungry and needs something healthy that is bulky and quick. And portable with its own wrapper, doesn't stain, easy to wash out of clothes, and perhaps most importantly: it isn't green :)
- lbsnake7 12y agoIf it does go to South America, USA might be screwed. America imports all of it's bananas, Chile mostly. Hawaii makes a negligible amount that I think never even leaves Hawaii. Side note, I've been interested in fruits, and the fruit trade so I've been trying to find out more information about how it all works. It is hard. Pretty much any hard data that comes out is from the USDA, no private entity does any sort of research or tracking of the movement of fruits. Farmers either don't care about that sort of stuff to do it on their own, or aren't technologically advanced enough to try and do it themselves.
- nickhalfasleep 12y ago"Pacific Fruit Express" and "The Great Yellow Fleet" are great books on the railroad technology development to provide produce West-to-East. The fast-trading of ripening fruits were redirected several times on their trip east via telegraph commands.
- megablast 12y agoFun fact: if you have ever have those small banana lollies, they taste quite different to bananas now. That is because they were created during the time of the Gros Michel, the old type of banana. And all bananas are cloned from the same variety, one reason this virus is such a concern.
- krallja 12y agoI wonder why the artificial banana flavor hasn't ever been updated. Cavendish bananas have apparently been dominant for over half a century.
- oftenwrong 12y agoSource for that? I always wondered why artificial banana flavour was so far off from that of the real fruit.
- mareofnight 12y agoThe reason why artificial flavors in general are different, is that a plant's flavor is made of a lot of different chemicals, and artificial flavorings only include the most noticeable (and least expensive) ones - so all the subtleties get left out. No idea if the change of banana varieties also affects it, or not.
- Thimothy 12y agoI don't know any source but I have seen that comment mentioned in every banana related blog post I ever read. Anecdotal evidence: A friend that traveled to Panama tasted the Gross Michel and said that the flavor is closer.
- mcherm 12y ago> And all bananas are cloned from the same variety, one reason this virus is such a concern. Did you read the article? One of the MAIN POINTS of this article was that this oft-repeated 'fact' is untrue. That, in fact, only a small portion of bananas are Cavendish grown for export, and that the non-cavendish (not cloned) bananas are also vulnerable to this fungus (not virus).
- higherpurpose 12y agoI don't know if they contain as much protein and whatnot, but I found peaches give me a similar "satiated" feeling if I eat them in the morning (in case you'll need an alternative fruit soon).
- enraged_camel 12y agoBoth bananas and peaches contain a negligible amount of protein.
- atmosx 12y agoThere are dozens of foods that can substitute a banana in the Mediterranean at least. Banana's do not have proteins. Generally speaking proteins can be found in meat. Banana has 0% cholesterol and big quantities of Potassium and Magnesium which help considerably with muscles (e.g. heart). That's their main benefit nutrition-wise. Avogado, spinach and sweet potato (boiled/natural) has bigger amounts of Potassium.
- latch 12y agoBanana's do not have proteins. Generally speaking proteins can be found in meat. A banana has ~1g - 1.5g of protein. By dried weight, it's a lower % of protein than a lot of other fruits. I admit it isn't much (it's about as much protein as 1 teaspoon of peanut butter). Almost _everything_ has protein in it. You get your recommended daily intake of protein at around 9 large baked potatoes.
- atmosx 12y agoYes... I was referring to quantities... Bananas are mostly used for potassium, nutrition-wise. Anyway, you're right proteins can be found virtually everywhere.
- ars 12y ago> Generally speaking proteins can be found in meat That isn't true at all. And it only brings up the question: Where does the meat get the protein? Animals can not make protein (or more accurately amino acids), only plants can. (Maybe some microorganisms too? Not sure.) Animals can only rearrange existing amino acids into other amino acids or into proteins. All plants have protein, some more than others. Grains and legumes have the most of the plants.
- sirgawain33 12y agoWe don't eat bananas anymore in our house, largely for the reasons outlined in the article. The thumbnail summary: bananas only started being widely consumed in the 1960s because of heavy marketing efforts by Central American railroad builders (they had to do something with the land along the sides of the newly built railroads, and bananas happened to fit). They are heavily chemically treated, more than any other fruit. They've been a monoculture almost since Day 1. Oh, another fun fact, those little stickers on bananas? They were one of the first examples of 'branding' I didn't find this article all that well written or informative. I recommend Chapman's Bananas: How the United Fruit Company Shaped the World I also happened to read John McPhee's Oranges at the same time. The contrast between the orange (an ancient fruit, widely consumed, hardy, with a rich literary tradition) and the banana is stark. Both books, by the way, are great little studies in technology business. Techno-optimism, marketing, PR, globalization, manic CEOs; it's all there.
- bduerst 12y agoI think you're making it out to be worse than it really is. Bananas are heavily chemically treated with ethylene, an inert gas which causes plants to ripen faster and is harmless to humans. (Fun fact: It's why bananas are never put next to other fruit in the supermarket, because they will cause other fruit to ripen and spoil faster.) Bananas also haven't been a monoculture since day 1 either - but have been developed that way through centuries of selective breeding. The article outlines the monoculture problem quite well, but doesn't really mention that it's because the consumable plant [mostly] only reproduces asexually. What's wrong with using tiny stickers on fruit for 'branding'?
- sirgawain33 12y agoHaha, I am not an expert in the least. I would be happy to hear my evidence is bunk. I'm just trying to point toward a source that I found interesting and informative. Indeed, with food production, the evidence and points of view are always very diverse and nuanced. It's a complex subject--endless, really. Here's a clip about banana chemical treatment... > "...Zemurray finally addressed the problem. He found a solution, which he called 'Bordeaux Mixture' and that combined copper sulphate, water, and lime. Zemurray's experts cautioned him against its overuse but he had it pumped on the plantations in increasing quantity. It was a cocktail with quite a pleasant name, but the giveaway was in the title of those employed to spray and pump it: veneneros, or for want of a better translation, 'poisoners' I would be very interested to find out if the industry decreased the pesticide/fungicide load since this was documented. I'm quoting secondhand here, Chapman notes in the 2007 book > Of the world's food crops, the banana is the most chemically treated (so we depend on its skin's ability to prevent disease) The story of marketing bananas is such a strange one. The 'Father of Public Relations', Edward Bernays, was heavily involved. There isn't a compelling dietary reason to eat bananas (expect, I suppose, if it's the only thing you've got). They resorted to the same marketing tactics that were used to sell cigarettes. > "Samuel Crowther...looking back on nearly twenty years later on these early days of United Fruit in his book The Romance and Rise of the American Tropics, what was being discovered was that 'demand is a thing which must be created" (51) Without getting into too much of a discussion about health and diet... I find that the heuristic that "anything new is bad" seems to work pretty well with food. Trans fats, high fructose corn syrup, factory farms, etc. The history of bananas shows that the production and demand for the fruit is both very new and completely artificial. Again, please feel free to draw your own conclusions. The only point to make here is that I found the reading surprisingly fascinating -- a banana is not just a banana.
- novalis78 12y agoso, when do we see bananas in places like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1QXCnC-2h4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1QXCnC-2h4
- jamandspoonfan 12y ago> Chiquita, the $548-million fruit giant with the world’s largest banana market share > Over the half-century it took to wipe out the Gros Michel, Race 1 caused at least $2.3 billion in damage This is your everyday, walk-to-the-market-and-pick-up-a-couple-for-lunch-for-the-next-few-days staple. $548 million. In one of the biggest markets in the world. Kind of puts a $20 billion pricetag on some here-today-gone-tomorrow webservice into perspective, no?
- sampo 12y agoThe banana cultivar we usually eat is the Canvendish Banana. This cultivar is propagated asexually so in a sense all of the banana plants are of the same clone. Attempting to fight the fungus with genetic engineering is extra tricky because of this, because the banana plants do not reproduce. But maybe someone finds a way. Anyway, I want to remind how papaya cultivation in Hawaii was almost wiped out by a virus disease, but they did some genetic engineering in the 1990's, and after that everything has been fine. http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/sections/news/local-news/papaya-gmo-success-story.html http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/sections/news/local-news/pap... Well, Europe still bans the import of GMO food. But at least everyone else gets to eat Hawaiian papaya.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- sebastianavina 12y agoit's amazing how the human can make a plant like the banana and maize evolve to fulfill our needs
- zorrb 12y agoFor anyone who's in interested in learning more about bananas, overthrowing governments and installing puppet dictators (before it was cool!) told in a true fast-paced rags-to-riches tale I highly recommend the book: "The Fish That Ate the Whale". So, so good.
- venus 12y agoThanks for the recommendation! Bought. Probably more than 50% of the books I buy come from recommendations on HN, and I've been rarely disappointed.
- NamTaf 12y agoRelated: DamnInteresting did a great article on the history of the banana and its reproductive quirks. It taught me about the historical species of banana that we no longer eat! http://www.damninteresting.com/the-unfortunate-sex-life-of-the-banana/ http://www.damninteresting.com/the-unfortunate-sex-life-of-t...
- hoggle 12y ago"But the GMO lightning rod distracts from the larger cautionary tale: Our reliance on monoculture to feed surging global populations is catching up with us." A lot of old true-to-seed breeds of plants with diverse sets of attributes (like e.g. being more resistant to certain environmental conditions) haven't been cultivated for economic reasons and consequently have become extinct by now. There are some enthusiasts trying to preserve those old breeds by running seed-banks but they have a hard time to do so even here in Europe because of corporations like Monsanto and their heavy lobbying trying to outlaw this movement. Arche Noah: "In the past 100 years we have lost about 75 percent of agricultural diversity worldwide." https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.arche-noah.at%2Fsortenerhaltung%2Fwozu-vielfalt&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr... Related - I was just posting on this topic on the Red Delicious thread which popped up on the HN frontpage: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8301185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8301185 Edit: I can't see why this gets downvoted, it is clearly on-topic and relevant.
- atlantic 12y agoI don't understand the downvotes either. The only way I can explain them is that there are certain categories of debate on HN which instantly attract large numbers of trolls intent on suppressing certain avenues of discussion.
- TeMPOraL 12y agoFew first minutes after submission of a comment is usually quite random and often you get downvotes Out Of Frakkin Nowhere. Fortunately, the reason usually catches up after a while and situaction rectifies itself. It's usually best to just ignore initial downvotes.
- atlantic 12y agoIn a general way, I would agree with you. However, my experience has been that topics such as Israel/Palestine, GM and 9/11 attract an unusual amount of attention from astroturfer types (by which I mean exceptionally opinionated people who have not logged into the site for months or years, and have never made a contribution to a technical discussion).
- acd 12y agoMono culture where you clone one banana so all other bananas are exactly the same is by design stupid. Imagine you have a disease, compare it to a computer virus. Now exactly all other computers are running the same software, there is a virus that attacks them, all computers are knocked out in one blow. This is how the banana industry are handling it at the moment with cloning. Plus previous scandals Dole dumping poison on their workers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bananas!* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bananas!*
- hereonbusiness 12y agoWindows, the IT world's Cavendish banana.
- dalke 12y agoCP/M, the IT world's Gros Michel?
- FooBarWidget 12y agoAnd yet that's exactly how most people are managing their computers, especially with the devops movement. They standardize on a single OS, a single set of software, and make the entire process identical and repeatable over the entire cluster. Managing servers is just impractical otherwise.
- guard-of-terra 12y agoI think we should be hitting with all our fury at this fungus that threatens to eat our bananas. Because as far as I know it also threatens a lot of diverse plant life, especially rare species and living fossils.
- mcv 12y ago> it also threatens a lot of diverse plant life, especially rare species and living fossils. Yeah, but can you eat those?
- mcv 12y ago"scientists haven’t yet found a viable back-up banana to sub in for the Cavendish" What? But what about the Goldfinger? I thought that was Race 4 resistant (Wikipedia seems to agree: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_banana http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_banana ), as well as tastier than the relatively bland Cavendish.
- scott_karana 12y agoI recently learned about the Breadfruit[1] at the National Tropical Botanical Gardens on the island of Kaua'i. Apparently, the Polynesians gave up the cultivation of rice (from their native Taiwan) and cultivated the breadfruit instead wherever it grew. The NTBG is trialing the use of breadfruit to combat starvation in tropical nations[2]: hopefully, in the event of a Bananapocalypse, breadfruit could help alleviate the loss. 1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadfruit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadfruit 2 http://ntbg.org/breadfruit/ http://ntbg.org/breadfruit/