10 ms·

Hell yeah! This is a great initiative. By university, many students have already set their minds against a career in tech. We need to reach kids earlier, when

by rglover 12y ago

Hell yeah! This is a great initiative. By university, many students have already set their minds against a career in tech. We need to reach kids earlier, when they are motivated by curiosity instead of social pressures. This came up the other day. A 19 year old kid came to my door working for the electric company. We ended up talking a bit and he asked what I did. I explained I'm a designer/developer and I work from home. For him, that was a total mind blow and he explained how he always wanted to be a game developer. I suggested that he should try and that his current job was just a temporary thing he could use to invest in getting better. The thing that bothered me, though, was that he didn't even think that he could do that, purely based on where he was from and what he saw around him (he alluded to being from the south side of Chicago). Stuff like Codestarter is a great step in the direction toward teaching kids of any background that they can do this stuff, just like everyone else. Personally, I'd like to see something like this but with a more down-to-earth "here's what they told you and here's why it's wrong" lesson up front.

mojombo 12y ago
That's a great anecdote, and you've brought up one of our primary hypotheses. A few weeks ago I attended a CoderDojo event in Virginia to deliver our first batch of Codestarter laptops, and it's always amazing to see the demographics. Mostly kids under 12, 50/50 boys/girls and this event was about 90% African American. Seeing the diversity at this age and comparing with the makeup of the professional software industry paints a pretty interesting picture. You can read about the event and see some photos here: http://blog.codestarter.org/post/92559298800/first-delivery-of-codestarter-laptops http://blog.codestarter.org/post/92559298800/first-delivery-...
- johnchristopher 12y ago
  I am from Europe so pardon me if I totally missed the point but how is 90% african american considered 'diverse' ?
  - bpodgursky 12y ago
    To be a tad cynical, in the US, "diverse" is often a synonym for non-white.
    - 300bps 12y ago
      It's actually more specific than that. Diverse means non-"white male".
  - celticninja 12y ago
    Diverse from the tech world in general by having black and female attendees. The tech world is overwhelmingly male and pretty darn white.
  - mojombo 12y ago
    I meant diversity across all the CoderDojo events that I've seen. This one happened to be primarily African American, but in aggregate, the breadth of kids that show up to learn to code is really amazing compared to what we see in colleges and the profession in general.
  - electronvolt 12y ago
    In this case, it's being compared to the normal demographics of people doing programming/CS related stuff. The demographics here are pretty stark: the percentage of women, and the percentages of hispanic and black people in programming and other tech related jobs (and studying it at the high school/college level) are way, way below their representation in the overall population. So "diverse" can both being used to (as another poster mentioned) refer to "non-white", as in the states it's often used as a byword for that, but I think in this case it's being used as a comparison to the expected demographics. As a much more off topic explanation of why "diverse" gets that use in the US dialogue: the US has serious problems talking about the fact that racism and inequalities along race lines both are still incredibly prevalent; many people would prefer to think it ended after the civil rights movement in the '60s (and that is largely how it is taught in the public school system). Saying something along the lines of "I was impressed by the number of black people/African Americans who attended" or even "I was impressed by how many non-white people attended" isn't politically correct in some circles, (and can open you up to accusations of racism) despite the fact that it mainly acts to highlight underlying inequalities and race lines rather than actually actively perpetuating and enforcing them. However, "diverse" is used as a byword to mean the same thing without actively highlighting any particular racial inequalities, which is more palpable for some people. (In my opinion, more palpable mainly for the people who are uncomfortable acknowledging the problems or who would rather not address them, but that's more social commentary than an explanation of the use.)
rubicon33 12y ago
I've got to ask - What is the drive behind this "get everyone everywhere to code!" initiative? I just don't get it. You don't see this kind of thing in other industries, do you? Why are so many programmers intent on getting everyone from every demographic, rich poor, black white, interested not interested, into coding? Forgive me, but it just seems like there's this misconception that everyone should know coding like they know algebra. I understand you people like it, so do I - that doesn't mean it's for everyone. This comment may get down voted but I assure you it comes from a place of genuine intrigue.
- DanBC 12y ago
  > You don't see this kind of thing in other industries, do you? Why are so many programmers intent on getting everyone from every demographic, rich poor, black white, You see diversity pushes in many industries - nursing, construction, education, and many many more. You don't see those programmes because you don't hang out in places where they're discussed. > interested not interested, into coding? People can't know if they're interested until they've tried it. If you're going to let people try coding it seems like a good idea to let them have a good, realistic, example.
  - rubicon33 12y ago
    > You don't see this kind of thing in other industries, do you? Why are so many programmers intent on getting everyone from every demographic, rich poor, black white Can't say I completely buy this argument. When's the last time President Obama addressed the nation, urging more people to learn to do nursing, or construction? Maybe 'diversity pushes' happen in other industries, but they don't seem to hold a candle to the intensity behind this one. Why, is my question. What's the 'greater good' that everyone sees behind an entire planet of coders? Why not push everyone to be doctors? Push everyone to learn virology? Surely, there's more utility there? Why code? > People can't know if they're interested until they've tried it. If you're going to let people try coding it seems like a good idea to let them have a good, realistic, example. I think your comment here is a generic statement, but I still have to mention - it's not completely true. For example, I knew very positively that I was interested in coding, well before I ever wrote a single line of code. I think it's very possible to have genuine interest in an industry, before you've ever worked in it. That said, I suppose I understand the benefit of exposing young people to another career possibility... But again, why coding is being pressured so much as opposed to other industries, I don't understand.

by rglover 12y ago

mojombo 12y ago

That's a great anecdote, and you've brought up one of our primary hypotheses. A few weeks ago I attended a CoderDojo event in Virginia to deliver our first batch of Codestarter laptops, and it's always amazing to see the demographics. Mostly kids under 12, 50/50 boys/girls and this event was about 90% African American. Seeing the diversity at this age and comparing with the makeup of the professional software industry paints a pretty interesting picture. You can read about the event and see some photos here: http://blog.codestarter.org/post/92559298800/first-delivery-of-codestarter-laptops http://blog.codestarter.org/post/92559298800/first-delivery-...

johnchristopher 12y ago
I am from Europe so pardon me if I totally missed the point but how is 90% african american considered 'diverse' ?
- bpodgursky 12y ago
  To be a tad cynical, in the US, "diverse" is often a synonym for non-white.
  - 300bps 12y ago
    It's actually more specific than that. Diverse means non-"white male".
- celticninja 12y ago
  Diverse from the tech world in general by having black and female attendees. The tech world is overwhelmingly male and pretty darn white.
- mojombo 12y ago
  I meant diversity across all the CoderDojo events that I've seen. This one happened to be primarily African American, but in aggregate, the breadth of kids that show up to learn to code is really amazing compared to what we see in colleges and the profession in general.
- electronvolt 12y ago
  In this case, it's being compared to the normal demographics of people doing programming/CS related stuff. The demographics here are pretty stark: the percentage of women, and the percentages of hispanic and black people in programming and other tech related jobs (and studying it at the high school/college level) are way, way below their representation in the overall population. So "diverse" can both being used to (as another poster mentioned) refer to "non-white", as in the states it's often used as a byword for that, but I think in this case it's being used as a comparison to the expected demographics. As a much more off topic explanation of why "diverse" gets that use in the US dialogue: the US has serious problems talking about the fact that racism and inequalities along race lines both are still incredibly prevalent; many people would prefer to think it ended after the civil rights movement in the '60s (and that is largely how it is taught in the public school system). Saying something along the lines of "I was impressed by the number of black people/African Americans who attended" or even "I was impressed by how many non-white people attended" isn't politically correct in some circles, (and can open you up to accusations of racism) despite the fact that it mainly acts to highlight underlying inequalities and race lines rather than actually actively perpetuating and enforcing them. However, "diverse" is used as a byword to mean the same thing without actively highlighting any particular racial inequalities, which is more palpable for some people. (In my opinion, more palpable mainly for the people who are uncomfortable acknowledging the problems or who would rather not address them, but that's more social commentary than an explanation of the use.)

rubicon33 12y ago

I've got to ask - What is the drive behind this "get everyone everywhere to code!" initiative? I just don't get it. You don't see this kind of thing in other industries, do you? Why are so many programmers intent on getting everyone from every demographic, rich poor, black white, interested not interested, into coding? Forgive me, but it just seems like there's this misconception that everyone should know coding like they know algebra. I understand you people like it, so do I - that doesn't mean it's for everyone. This comment may get down voted but I assure you it comes from a place of genuine intrigue.

DanBC 12y ago
> You don't see this kind of thing in other industries, do you? Why are so many programmers intent on getting everyone from every demographic, rich poor, black white, You see diversity pushes in many industries - nursing, construction, education, and many many more. You don't see those programmes because you don't hang out in places where they're discussed. > interested not interested, into coding? People can't know if they're interested until they've tried it. If you're going to let people try coding it seems like a good idea to let them have a good, realistic, example.
- rubicon33 12y ago
  > You don't see this kind of thing in other industries, do you? Why are so many programmers intent on getting everyone from every demographic, rich poor, black white Can't say I completely buy this argument. When's the last time President Obama addressed the nation, urging more people to learn to do nursing, or construction? Maybe 'diversity pushes' happen in other industries, but they don't seem to hold a candle to the intensity behind this one. Why, is my question. What's the 'greater good' that everyone sees behind an entire planet of coders? Why not push everyone to be doctors? Push everyone to learn virology? Surely, there's more utility there? Why code? > People can't know if they're interested until they've tried it. If you're going to let people try coding it seems like a good idea to let them have a good, realistic, example. I think your comment here is a generic statement, but I still have to mention - it's not completely true. For example, I knew very positively that I was interested in coding, well before I ever wrote a single line of code. I think it's very possible to have genuine interest in an industry, before you've ever worked in it. That said, I suppose I understand the benefit of exposing young people to another career possibility... But again, why coding is being pressured so much as opposed to other industries, I don't understand.