7 ms·

I went the exact opposite route. After losing 180 pounds via bariatric surgery and then regaining 70 of it, I dove into the science. I read books, but only book

I went the exact opposite route. After losing 180 pounds via bariatric surgery and then regaining 70 of it, I dove into the science. I read books, but only books that pointed directly to scientific literature I could read. More importantly, I learned how to differentiate good nutrition studies from bad nutrition studies (hint: at least 90% of nutrition studies are bad) so I could tell when an conclusion is warranted by the data versus when it isn't. I also started completely ignoring anything said in the media, since, invariably, they get it wrong or they hype the afore-mentioned bad studies. Everything became about the science and the n=1 experiments. What I found was that I could lose weight without effort, improve every health marker, and enjoy the foods my body really seemed to desire (as opposed to foods engineered to cause cravings). The 70 pounds disappeared without any tracking of anything[1]. More importantly, that 70 pounds was gone a year ago, and maintaining the loss has been just as straightforward. I applaud anybody who finds the method that works for them. It's pretty clear our bodies are striving to be healthy and get what they need; once you find that, the rest comes relatively easy.[2] 1. There was some early tracking as I learned about different foods and how they interacted with me and my goals. 2. Unfortunately, some people lost the genetic lottery (less than you might think) or are so metabolically disturbed (becoming more and more) that it isn't always easy. I have a huge amount of respect for those who persevere through that and work towards a healthier life.

beaumartinez 12y ago
Interesting. What studies did you stick with?
- SoftwareMaven 12y ago
  Hmm, tough question. Here are some of the studies that struck me most. The danger of something like this is it can look like confirmation bias; that is not the case. It just happens that a close, impartial reading of the evidence tends to lean one direction. * Comparison of the Atkins, Zone, Ornish, and LEARN Diets for Change in Weight and Related Risk Factors Among Overweight Premenopausal Women[1] * Effects of Dietary Composition on Energy Expenditure During Weight-Loss Maintenance[2] * The ketogenic diet as a treatment paradigm for diverse neurological disorders[3] * The ketogenic diet reverses gene expression patterns and reduces reactive oxygen species levels when used as an adjuvant therapy for glioma[4] * A Systematic Review of the Evidence Supporting a Causal Link Between Dietary Factors and Coronary Heart Disease[5] At the time, I wrote a wikia article[6] that tried to distil all of my thoughts and what I had learned. It is mostly correct, but I'm sure I got some things wrong. I haven't gone back over it in some time. More recently, I think this article (Dietary Carbohydrate restriction as the first approach in diabetes management. Critical review and evidence base)[7] gives a good overview of the metabolic benefits. All of this does not imply that I think a ketogenic diet is the One and True Path(tm); it is far more nuanced than that, but that's not a bad place to start for a lot of people. 1. http://www.mwc.com.br/files/Gardner_-_Standford_A_to_Z.pdf http://www.mwc.com.br/files/Gardner_-_Standford_A_to_Z.pdf 2. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1199154 http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1199154 3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/pdf/fphar-03-00059.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/pdf/fpha... 4. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2949862/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2949862/ 5. http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1108492 http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=11084... 6. http://fat-head.wikia.com/wiki/Health_Benefits_of_a_Low_Carb,_High_Fat_Diet http://fat-head.wikia.com/wiki/Health_Benefits_of_a_Low_Carb... 7. http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0899-9007(14)00332-3/fulltext http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0899-9007(14)00332-3/f...
  - beaumartinez 12y ago
    Thanks! This plays nicely with my confirmation bias; I've been on a ketogenic diet since March and I've felt much better because of it.
    - rficcaglia 12y ago
      +1 ketogenic...in fact for me, lost 100lb on ketogenic, then slowly added back carbs (increasing exercise) gained back 20lb. went back on ketogenic, isocaloric and less exercise...immediately dropped back down
      - freehunter 12y ago
        Carbs soak up water, so it's natural that you would gain weight when adding carbs and lose weight when you remove them. That's why doctors and nutritionists say not to worry about your weight, but worry about your waist. Weight can be misleading.
        Evgeny 12y ago
        The amount of carbs stored in the human body would not account for 100 lbs, not even for 20 lbs. A couple of pounds of carbs are stored in the body, in the form of glycogen, plus the water it soaks - maybe three times more, so the difference may be about 8, maximum 10 pounds. I would certainly worry about 20 lbs gain, carbs or no carbs.
        HNJohnC 12y ago
        WATER not carbs. It's a well known effect.
        Evgeny 12y ago
        Yes. The only way the carbs are stored in the human body is in the form of glycogen, in liver and skeletal muscle. There's about 1 kg of it in total, maybe a bit more if you're a trained athlete. And glycogen binds about, maybe, up to 3 times as much water by weight. So, altogether, about 4 kg. After switching to keto, glycogen is used up gradually, due to no carbs entering the body. And the water is also lost. Therefore, the "signing bonus" of the keto diet - a significant weight loss in the beginning, but due to water lost, not fat burned. BUT. That only accounts for about 4 kilos, maybe just a bit more. You can't really blame water for a gain of 20 pounds. Am I missing something?
corysama 12y ago
Sounds like you studied very hard, worked very hard, learned something very valuable and verified that it works at least for you. What you've learned could help a lot of people (like me :). I hope that you find a way to share it with the world. (wouldn't mind a brief summary here...)
- SoftwareMaven 12y ago
  Look at my response to beaumartinez nearby. For a deeper dive, I wrote up more in the 6th reference I link to there. If you have more questions, please feel free to email me; my email is in my profile. For a lighter-weight dive, you can also take a look at https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4attj5gmxe9cou/InANutshell.md https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4attj5gmxe9cou/InANutshell.md (hopefully that link works :).
  - alok-g 12y ago
    Wow! I totally did not know this. Just went through a few Wikipedia articles too. A question I have is what would happen if I cut down carbohydrates, but not increase fat either! I discovered through accidental self-experimentation that cutting down on sugar is helping me, while my diet barely included rice, potatoes, etc. anyways. I used to consume some pasta, but will reduce that too now. What is the purpose behind increasing fat in diet when doing this? Is it to just compensate for calorie loss? Is it to control cravings? One one hand, it is saying that ketogenic diet will help burn body fat, and on the second it says go increase fat consumption! I'll need to do some research to understand how to get carbohydrates to just 20-25 grams per day like you have mentioned. A "Pure Protein" bar I just consumed by itself had 17g! Would it work out if I can get to within 50g of carbs (which is still much lower than 300g you mention for an average American), together with cut down fat too? Or that defeats the whole purpose?! Since I started cutting down on sugar drastically, I have noticed though my craving for sugar has increased (though I am still able to control). Diet soda seems to be helping with these cravings significantly though I am not sure what are the side effects. (I have come across many conflicting studies against soda, so have never been sure!) I am moderately exercising too, gradually increasing. Eggs seem to be recommended in these diets. As someone with borderline cholesterol, would eggs still be recommended? Thanks!

beaumartinez 12y ago

Interesting. What studies did you stick with?

SoftwareMaven 12y ago
Hmm, tough question. Here are some of the studies that struck me most. The danger of something like this is it can look like confirmation bias; that is not the case. It just happens that a close, impartial reading of the evidence tends to lean one direction. * Comparison of the Atkins, Zone, Ornish, and LEARN Diets for Change in Weight and Related Risk Factors Among Overweight Premenopausal Women[1] * Effects of Dietary Composition on Energy Expenditure During Weight-Loss Maintenance[2] * The ketogenic diet as a treatment paradigm for diverse neurological disorders[3] * The ketogenic diet reverses gene expression patterns and reduces reactive oxygen species levels when used as an adjuvant therapy for glioma[4] * A Systematic Review of the Evidence Supporting a Causal Link Between Dietary Factors and Coronary Heart Disease[5] At the time, I wrote a wikia article[6] that tried to distil all of my thoughts and what I had learned. It is mostly correct, but I'm sure I got some things wrong. I haven't gone back over it in some time. More recently, I think this article (Dietary Carbohydrate restriction as the first approach in diabetes management. Critical review and evidence base)[7] gives a good overview of the metabolic benefits. All of this does not imply that I think a ketogenic diet is the One and True Path(tm); it is far more nuanced than that, but that's not a bad place to start for a lot of people. 1. http://www.mwc.com.br/files/Gardner_-_Standford_A_to_Z.pdf http://www.mwc.com.br/files/Gardner_-_Standford_A_to_Z.pdf 2. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1199154 http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1199154 3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/pdf/fphar-03-00059.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321471/pdf/fpha... 4. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2949862/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2949862/ 5. http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1108492 http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=11084... 6. http://fat-head.wikia.com/wiki/Health_Benefits_of_a_Low_Carb,_High_Fat_Diet http://fat-head.wikia.com/wiki/Health_Benefits_of_a_Low_Carb... 7. http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0899-9007(14)00332-3/fulltext http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0899-9007(14)00332-3/f...
- beaumartinez 12y ago
  Thanks! This plays nicely with my confirmation bias; I've been on a ketogenic diet since March and I've felt much better because of it.
  - rficcaglia 12y ago
    +1 ketogenic...in fact for me, lost 100lb on ketogenic, then slowly added back carbs (increasing exercise) gained back 20lb. went back on ketogenic, isocaloric and less exercise...immediately dropped back down
    - freehunter 12y ago
      Carbs soak up water, so it's natural that you would gain weight when adding carbs and lose weight when you remove them. That's why doctors and nutritionists say not to worry about your weight, but worry about your waist. Weight can be misleading.
      - Evgeny 12y ago
        The amount of carbs stored in the human body would not account for 100 lbs, not even for 20 lbs. A couple of pounds of carbs are stored in the body, in the form of glycogen, plus the water it soaks - maybe three times more, so the difference may be about 8, maximum 10 pounds. I would certainly worry about 20 lbs gain, carbs or no carbs.
        HNJohnC 12y ago
        WATER not carbs. It's a well known effect.
        Evgeny 12y ago
        Yes. The only way the carbs are stored in the human body is in the form of glycogen, in liver and skeletal muscle. There's about 1 kg of it in total, maybe a bit more if you're a trained athlete. And glycogen binds about, maybe, up to 3 times as much water by weight. So, altogether, about 4 kg. After switching to keto, glycogen is used up gradually, due to no carbs entering the body. And the water is also lost. Therefore, the "signing bonus" of the keto diet - a significant weight loss in the beginning, but due to water lost, not fat burned. BUT. That only accounts for about 4 kilos, maybe just a bit more. You can't really blame water for a gain of 20 pounds. Am I missing something?

corysama 12y ago

Sounds like you studied very hard, worked very hard, learned something very valuable and verified that it works at least for you. What you've learned could help a lot of people (like me :). I hope that you find a way to share it with the world. (wouldn't mind a brief summary here...)

SoftwareMaven 12y ago
Look at my response to beaumartinez nearby. For a deeper dive, I wrote up more in the 6th reference I link to there. If you have more questions, please feel free to email me; my email is in my profile. For a lighter-weight dive, you can also take a look at https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4attj5gmxe9cou/InANutshell.md https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4attj5gmxe9cou/InANutshell.md (hopefully that link works :).
- alok-g 12y ago
  Wow! I totally did not know this. Just went through a few Wikipedia articles too. A question I have is what would happen if I cut down carbohydrates, but not increase fat either! I discovered through accidental self-experimentation that cutting down on sugar is helping me, while my diet barely included rice, potatoes, etc. anyways. I used to consume some pasta, but will reduce that too now. What is the purpose behind increasing fat in diet when doing this? Is it to just compensate for calorie loss? Is it to control cravings? One one hand, it is saying that ketogenic diet will help burn body fat, and on the second it says go increase fat consumption! I'll need to do some research to understand how to get carbohydrates to just 20-25 grams per day like you have mentioned. A "Pure Protein" bar I just consumed by itself had 17g! Would it work out if I can get to within 50g of carbs (which is still much lower than 300g you mention for an average American), together with cut down fat too? Or that defeats the whole purpose?! Since I started cutting down on sugar drastically, I have noticed though my craving for sugar has increased (though I am still able to control). Diet soda seems to be helping with these cravings significantly though I am not sure what are the side effects. (I have come across many conflicting studies against soda, so have never been sure!) I am moderately exercising too, gradually increasing. Eggs seem to be recommended in these diets. As someone with borderline cholesterol, would eggs still be recommended? Thanks!