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Ars editor learns feds have his old IP addresses, full credit card numbers
- dm2 12y agoDoes submitting a FOIA request make any of that information public? Would I have to submit a FOIA request to all agencies to get a comprehensive list of my information? I personally think that this should be required for private businesses as well. I would like to see all information Google, Amazon, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc has about me, I think I should have the right to know that information too.
- greenyoda 12y agoI seem to remember that companies may be required to show you their data about you under European privacy laws (which are much stricter than in the US). There was a story a while ago of someone submitting such a request to Facebook and getting back a PDF file containing hundreds of pages.
- dm2 12y agoVERY interesting... http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/11/17/facebook-clenches-fists-around-users-data-in-midst-of-irish-audit/ http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/11/17/facebook-clenches... http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/12/in-europe-thousands-of-requests-for-facebook-data/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/12/in-europe-thousands... http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/reddit-users-overwhelm-facebook-with-data-requests/4165 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/reddit-users-overwhelm-fa... http://www.geek.com/news/facebook-stores-up-to-800-pages-of-personal-data-per-user-account-1424807/ http://www.geek.com/news/facebook-stores-up-to-800-pages-of-... We need more of this. People have the right to know. I'm sure much of this data comes from them purchasing it from other sources (companies that go out of business, LexisNexis, other "partners"). Actually I think people should also have the right to request that companies delete this data permanently, but good luck getting that bill passed. I wonder what if the percentage of people who closed their Facebook account spiked after receiving this information. I've built data-mining / warehousing systems for companies before, if I didn't do it they would fire me and someone else would build it. Consumer protection and privacy laws are important and lacking, just my opinion of course.
- Qantourisc 12y agoI wonder if they have a file on me, even though I don't use facebook and a lot of blocking tools. Anyone tried? Not even sure how to request the data, when you have no account .
- dm2 12y agoProbably. Friends and family install Facebook mobile app, all of their contacts are sent to facebook which includes your phone number and email addresses. More data is gathered from other random sources online. Possibly even pictures from your college or mugshots. Just imagine the data that was taken from the people who installed that LinkedIn "send all of your email through us" app.
- mcintyre1994 12y agoI've heard that Facebook create ghost profiles based on things like known contacts (contact sync by a user) of users, so probably. What they'd use that for is less clear, although I assume their legitimate reason is for making better recommendations to new users and maximising early engagement (I seem to recall they have research papers on that topic).
- cordite 12y agoI submitted a request and got absolutely nothing, as if a black hole. I never followed up after 1 or 2 months.
- greenyoda 12y agoDuplicate of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8057315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8057315
- josephlord 12y agoYeah I guess my title or my timing was off, this version got much more interest.
- dominotw 12y agoI was taken into a special investigation room at port of entry at Ohare Airport because I happened to live with 2 muslim roommates( both of them had mohammed in their names) for a mere matter of 2 months. I was shocked to find out that they knew where I lived, with whom ( i was not even on the lease) for past 10 years , my complete travel internaries every time I flew, all my credit cards numbers and who knows what else. I am glad general public is waking up to this finally.
- fidotron 12y agoWhat's funny is the way the government are getting all the benefits of lots of data, but the potential efficiency benefits for end users have a habit of never materialising. A very simple and obvious example is the administration of taxation, where the government have most of the information already, and the rest is just going through the motions. The oddest I've seen is the US/Canada air border also improved immeasurably when they laid off loads of Canadian border staff, forcing them to come up with more efficient systems for handling the same number of people with a smaller staff. It's not what you'd call good now, but it's way better. Ultimately I'd have less objection to the governments keeping data if I saw the benefits from them doing it. As it stands it seems it's just used for their own purposes.
- zyxley 12y ago> A very simple and obvious example is the administration of taxation, where the government have most of the information already, and the rest is just going through the motions. IIRC, IRS higher-ups have talked before about wanting to do this (since it would cut down on enforcement/audit costs to just tally up everything in-house and send a bill or refund), but the current laws don't allow them to implement it.
- Spooky23 12y agoIt would work well for some people, but there are easily 5-7% who would get screwed due to errors, special circumstances or other things. Even a 1% error affects over 3M people.
- ilaksh 12y agoClearly this is not a valid system that we can tolerate. I think that the internet is key to making the most dominant systems irrelevant which will make way for more compositional, less hierarchical, and more open, structures and systems. Theoretically those dominant systems have already demonstrated their irrelevance, we just need to make that a practical reality. We need alternative internets in order to do that. A more diverse information infrastructure may be key to providing not only personal privacy but also security.
- olefoo 12y ago> I think that the internet is key to making the most dominant systems irrelevant That has been the rhetoric, but the practical application seems to be centralizing to one or two dominant players in a given market. From an economic perspective the frictionless nature of the internet and the limited attention span of the humans that use it seems to result in one platform outperforming all others and leads in customer acquisition fading slowly if at all. Having alternate internets might increase the friction enough to encourage diversity; but the end users desire to use the "best" solution for their problems will probably result in these alternate internets being knit together. In sum. There are forces at work that your solution does not address.
- ilaksh 12y agoWhat forces and how do you address them?
- olefoo 12y agoThe stubborn refusal of humans to act as though they were identical frictionless spherical humanoids of uniform density and heat transfer characteristics. And their stubborn insistence on acting like self-interested jerks who put their own comfort, well-being and survival well ahead of the interests of any of their con-specifics; much less any other animals sentient or otherwise.
- opendais 12y agoThis is just depressing, honestly. It is pretty clear they just want to collect all of the data "just in case" you might one day become a suspect. :/ Sadly, unless you can convince the electorate to keep kicking people out until things change...nothing will change.
- logn 12y agoThis issue is bigger than just voting in new politicians. It's on the order of slavery, women's suffrage, the "trail of tears", prohibition, civil rights in the South, etc. In other words, to reign in surveillance will take enormous will on the part of the people to change deeply rooted systems of government and power that reach far beyond any single politician. Unfortunately I don't think the people have the will to change this currently because the harm being done is so well hidden, even after Snowden's revelations.
- opendais 12y ago> This issue is bigger than just voting in new politicians. If you kick out enough politicians in a Democracy, you get a completely new majority government. We need to kick out about 55% of Congress.
- logn 12y agoBut aside from that you have corporations profiting from surveillance, numerous gov't employees and contractors involved, judges receiving perks and legal bribes, existing surveillance legislation and court precedent, state and local employees/contractors (from traffic cops to fusion center workers) whose work is based on surveillance data, foreign governments who do much of the same the US does, a media that has been bought off and consolidated.
- opendais 12y agoYes. And with the right laws you can reduce that to reasonable levels.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- ewang1 12y agoI wonder if the government can be fined for violation of PCI. Or perhaps the airline companies for providing it to the gov't in the first place.
- adventured 12y agoThe airline companies will be immune to such. That's always part of the racket.
- iancarroll 12y agoAs I understand it, you will only be fined contractually as part of a card acceptance agreement, so the government can't be charged.
- SilasX 12y agoBut since the government accepts electronic payment cards ...
- iancarroll 12y agoI'm pretty sure there's a scope to those agreements.
- majke 12y agoThis is the comment I wrote almost a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6870933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6870933 I was not aware the USA has so many information about every single travel. According to this [1] they record everything. - amtrack - trains in the EU (including sit numbers) - bus travel in the EU - plane travel in the EU on a carrier that doesn't fly to the US - hotel reservations - pedestrian border crossing Everything. [1] http://hasbrouck.org/articles/Hasbrouck-Cato-2APR2013.pdf http://hasbrouck.org/articles/Hasbrouck-Cato-2APR2013.pdf
- qnaal 12y agogotta fill those exabytes somehow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
- dan_bk 12y agoI've been told it's so that Jack Bauer from CTU Los Angeles can protect us. But you'll have to routinely let him brake all protocols so he can do his job - it's all for own good.
- shitlord 12y agoMan, this last season of 24 was awful IMO. The ending was just so incredibly anticlimactic. My favorite part about it was Belchek - what a badass. All he did was blow up stuff, shoot people, kidnap the president, and make Madonna references. They even let him have the last line of the season!
- morsch 12y agoThanks for the link. He presents solid evidence. The inspection notes from his border crossings on the final pages are particularly chilling.
- late2part 12y agoI can't find the actual inspection notes - can you tell me where to find them?
- staunch 12y ago"People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome." -- River Tam
- coldcode 12y agoThe article makes it sound like OTAs and airlines are to blame for what goes into a PNR. Note that for decades the PNR was the only record of your requests to buy a ticket, change seats, meals etc. Basically think of it as a database record (in a flat database sort of way). Even in a modern environment the data in SABRE and Amadeus and Travelport (the companies that provide the massive databases for most all airlines in the world) still isn't much better than a PNR. These systems date back to the 60's. What is disturbing that the US Government apparently demanded the entire PNR before the trip. For decades PNR's were routinely deleted soon after the trip happened unless manually extended (to provide for refunds). Apparently HS insisted that the entire PNR be given to them without allowing any kind of scrubbing first. This is what is ridiculous. But people who regard your data as their personal fiefdom could care less about your security or privacy.
- vitd 12y agoNo, I think he has a legitimate claim that the airlines are putting too much information into the database. His credit card number should not be in the clear in the PNR database. That's just ridiculous.
- iancarroll 12y agoIs this not against PCI at all?
- wefarrell 12y agoPCI isn't a law.
- iancarroll 12y agoPCI might not be a law, but you will get large fines from who you process with, sometimes monthly! http://www.pcistandard.com/pci-standard/card-association-fines/ http://www.pcistandard.com/pci-standard/card-association-fin...
- pbreit 12y agoUnless edited, did not suggest it was a law. It's a contractual term.
- jusben1369 12y agoFeds not feds. Lower case is a totally different and real word. So sloppy.
- bequanna 12y agoDoes it matter? Given the context, 99.9% of people will infer the correct meaning regardless of the capitalization.
- jusben1369 12y agoIt's so lazy and presumes all readers are speaking english as their first language.
- pbreit 12y agoThe alternative is slightly higher risk of some sort of incident? I think I'd prefer that =my= government not spy on me.