9 ms·

Tinder sued for sexual harassment by former co-founder

156 points by smartera 12y ago

wellboy 12y ago
Wow, if this is true, what a horrible person. All the efforts to get more women interested in tech, trampled. Hopefully, people will learn from this how to not do it and that still in 2014 misogynism is completely present and will get swept under the carpet.
- purringmeow 12y ago
  The article stated the lawsuit has been started and I didn't see any verdict. So let's not be quick to judge, we've heard only 1 side of the story.
  - MangezBien 12y ago
    Is there another side that would make any of these actions acceptable? I can't think of any.
    - WalterSear 12y ago
      Guilty! Guilty! Burn them! Burn them!
      - ossreality 12y ago
        That'd be your straw man burning, actually.
    - xienze 12y ago
      You're making the assumption that the allegations are 100% truthful in the first place.
      - MangezBien 12y ago
        I should have been more specific. I was referring to the text messages. In what light is anything he texted her acceptable? Are you implying that they may be fabricated?
        xienze 12y ago
        The texts aren't official records from the phone company, they're just screenshots of iMessage. Can't fake those! I'm just a little skeptical because if you read the complaint, it's mostly about her trying to assert her co-founder status with sexual harassment as a bludgeon.
        DanBC 12y ago
        She claims she was given co-founder status, and that the reason it was removed was sexist. That's an important claim about the company as a whole, and not just about one person at that company.
      - vor_ 12y ago
        Tinder has confirmed the messages. Here they are: http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassment http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassm...
        purringmeow 12y ago
        That's pathetic. This guy seems to have the emotional development of a 5 year old.
    - renaudg 12y ago
      Yeah, let's get rid of judges and always apply the maximum sentence if found guilty, regardless of circumstances or what the other party did. Binary justice sounds like an especially wonderful idea when the matter is human relationships.
- j4kp07 12y ago
  Really? One bad breakup between two C-types and "ALL" of the efforts to bring MORE women into tech is trampled? IMHO...this has nothing to do with Tinder or the parent company. Because, guess what happens when you decide to enter the dating world? You may get burned, called bad names or become generally upset. So don't shit where you eat and then blame the cafeteria for the bad taste left in your mouth.
  - Loughla 12y ago
    No, but that's why many cafeterias have a 'no shitting where you eat' policy that results in immediate termination.
  - instaheat 12y ago
    Thank you. I agree. I don't know why I got downvoted so much for my comment.
  - wellboy 12y ago
    One bad breakup between two C-types and "ALL" of the efforts to bring MORE women into tech is trampled? Well, yeah. Only half of the efforts trampeled?
  - zacharycohn 12y ago
    This has everything to do with Tinder when the CEO is aware of harassment and abuse, yet does nothing.
  - easytiger 12y ago
    IMHO this has nothing to do with tech either. Could easily replace tinder with a used car sales company and no one would be suprised.
DanielBMarkham 12y ago
I don't want to comment on this particular story. These are terrible allegations and they deserve their day in court. There's also a drive-by, rubber-necking, gossip-mongering aspect to these stories. Hate to contribute to it. I would like to comment on all the heat sexual discrimination cases are getting in the public eye lately. (I have no idea if the number of actual cases are increasing, decreasing, or staying the same). Big, public, messy scandals are no good for anybody, and they're not a new phenomenon. We have various professions where lawsuits of a sexual nature can be especially damaging. A couple that come to mind right off the bat are politicians and religious leaders. I've heard that in many cases, the threat of an unfounded lawsuit is so great, and it could cause so much harm, that folks are sticking with same-sex environments where there are always 3 or more people in a room together. I wonder if we'll see such adaptations in the startup industry. It could be that the public outcry after so many of these things, to include more women, might actually drive out more highly segregated work environments. It bears watching.
- ChuckMcM 12y ago
  I was wondering a related question, which is whether or not there is a higher, similar, or lower incidence of sexual harassment in "technology" firms than other firms of similar size (number of employees, annual revenue). It is not uncommon for people who work together, to get romantically involved in spite of advice against such relationships. But I don't see anything specifically 'tech' related that would make this more or less likely. Hence the question.
  - DanielBMarkham 12y ago
    Call me cynical, but when I read all the comments on sites like this and others about these lawsuits in the tech industry, it leads me to believe that a lot of writers and editors somewhere are not idiots -- they're digging these things up and feeding them to us. That didn't answer your question, I know. My point is that there are tons of tech companies. It can certainly appear to be a tremendous surge when in fact it's just a small extra effort made in reporting cases. Without a statistical survey we can't be sure. We can be sure about the economics of creating content, though. With this kind of visceral reaction, it's a publisher's dream. Not only can you report the allegation, then you can report the reply, then the comments from the community, then the play-by-play action in court, etc. Just gauge how much effort to put into it by how many pageviews you're pulling. Newspaper 101 stuff.
_delirium 12y ago
The complaint is here, fwiw: http://www.rezlaw.com/News-Events/06-30-14_Complaint_with_Exhibits-1.pdf http://www.rezlaw.com/News-Events/06-30-14_Complaint_with_Ex...
- spaldingwell 12y ago
  Some pretty bad stuff that Buzzfeed found in the complaint: http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassment http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassm...
  - raverbashing 12y ago
    Crap, that's really over the top
  - swalkergibson 12y ago
    Wow. What a steaming pile of useless crap Mr. Mateen is. Those texts are ruthless and unrelenting. I hope that she gets millions in compensation and this asshat gets fired immediately. Fucking prick.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
sergiotapia 12y ago
He-said-she-said, bleh. And these things come to light after a breakup between the two of them. Seriously, who would trust what either of them say? It'll get settled in court no doubt, but let's not jump on the bandwagon here. Edit: http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassment http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassm... - If this is real the guy is a real piece of shit. -This- is the type of guy who should be removed from his company. If the guy in Github was forced to leave this is probably a sure-thing.
- kibibu 12y ago
  > He-said-she-said, bleh Documented by text messages in the complaint
  - sergiotapia 12y ago
    Then that's good, no more hearsay nonsense. Let's hope justice is served. The complaint wasn't linked in the original article.
- kaonashi 12y ago
  > He-said-she-said, bleh. It sounds like there is documentary evidence, so I'm wondering why you would characterize it like that.
- jessaustin 12y ago
  TIL it's a bad idea to date your direct report or your boss.
  - sergiotapia 12y ago
    Hahaha, I know right. You think this is common sense...yet here we are.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - 12y ago
kaonashi 12y ago
> "We unequivocally condemn these messages," the spokesman said, "but believe that Ms. Wolfe’s allegations with respect to Tinder and its management are unfounded.” Uh-huh.
dbloom 12y ago
Before we all jump on the "he-said-she-said" bandwagon, keep in mind that IAC (Tinder's parent company) has confirmed that Mr. Mateen did send harassing messages to Ms. Wolfe: "Through that process, it has become clear that Mr. Mateen sent private messages to Ms. Wolfe containing inappropriate content." <http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/06/30/tinder-sexual-harassment/11812153/> http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/06/30/tinder-sexual-... The rest of the allegations are unproven, but the allegation that Mr. Mateen harassed Ms. Wolfe is, for all intents and purposes, 100% factual. There's no reason to defend this guy.
- j4kp07 12y ago
  Key word: Private. Where do you draw the line when you work with and are dating the same person? The only fault I see here on IAC is hiring people who are dating.
  - aikah 12y ago
    IANAL but AFAIK if I send a mail to you it's not private and can totally be accepted as evidence in a court of law.There is no notion of privacy in sending a mail,a text message,... the only thing that would not be admissible is if I recorded a conversation between us without telling you you are on record.
    - tbrownaw 12y ago
      the only thing that would not be admissible is if I recorded a conversation between us without telling you you are on record. Doesn't that vary by state? IIRC in some you can record anything you're involved in while in others everyone involved has to agree (or at least know?). Or maybe this was about getting sued under privacy laws rather than admissibility...
  - dbloom 12y ago
    > Key word: Private. This is a ballpark guess, but probably about 99% of workplace harassment is done privately. > Where do you draw the line when you work with and are dating the same person? The only fault I see here on IAC is hiring people who are dating. If a manager has a relationship with a subordinate, the manager should be held accountable for that, not the subordinate.
instaheat 12y ago
Sounds like a typical bad breakup to me, these two people just happen to work in high profile positions in the Tech world. Girl finds new man, guy gets angry and lashes out by calling her a whore.(Unfounded) Nothing to see here folks! Unless you're into this sort of drama...
- dbloom 12y ago
  So why did the woman get fired? Why didn't the man get fired? Does this seem fair to you?
  - instaheat 12y ago
    Of course not. I am not endorsing his actions.
  - klipt 12y ago
    Probably because in this case the man was the boss, and bosses tend to fire underlings more than the other way around. And this is why dating across workplace power differentials is a bad idea: it makes a bad breakup exponentially worse.
- bdcravens 12y ago
  If your ex works with/for you, you have a legal obligation to keep your mouth shut, no matter how emotionally torn up you are.
davidw 12y ago
Previous go round on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7969301 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7969301
teamhappy 12y ago
I'm shocked, shocked ...
ctide 12y ago
Posts like these remind me how many socially maladjusted misogynists exist on this site just waiting for stuff like this so they can throw their 2c in. It says right there that IAC confirmed he sent the messages. The rest of this honestly does not matter at all, it's just kindling on the fire. Those alone are enough to prove that he sexually harassed her. If you're honestly trying to argue that we 'don't know all that facts' and that 'we shouldn't jump to conclusions' then I feel bad for any women who have to interact with you because you're probably a fucking scumbag too.
- bitchypat 12y ago
  You might work on your delivery of the whole "If you don't agree with me, then you're a fucking scumbag" thing. People more sensitive than I might construe that as inappropriate - perhaps as harassment.
  - vor_ 12y ago
    He didn't say that if you didn't agree with him, you're a fucking scumbag. He said that if you're still claiming we should reserve judgement after it's been confirmed that the messages were sent, you're a fucking scumbag. In my opinion, that's a non-controversial statement and likely to be true. Edit: Here are the messages: http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassment http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassm...
    - bmelton 12y ago
      And yet, where's the harm in waiting for the full story to be revealed? As an apologist mechanism, I'll concede that it's lacking, but even in the face of evidence, we should be wary of indicting anything for which we don't have personal, inside involvement, but even for cases, like this, for which there appears to be evidence, predisposing ourselves to a cause makes it less likely that we'll adjust our opinions in the event that counter-evidence is provided, or the existing evidence is placed into a context which might make it otherwise reasonable. Note, I'm not suggesting that any of the above applies here, but as a general practice, avoiding prejudgement in the absence of all the facts is a bad way to approach gossip.
snvzz 12y ago
These private message things are appropriate until (possibly years after breaking up) it's convenient for one party to say otherwise. This bullshit should be put to an end.
aqme28 12y ago
"Mr. Mateen told Ms. Wolfe that the reason she could no longer hold herself out as a co-founder was that she was a 24-year-old “girl” with little experience. Once again he said that holding her out as a co-founder “makes the company look like a joke” and “devalues the company.” Mr. Mateen tried to justify the situation by saying “Facebook and Snapchat don’t have girl founders, it just makes it look like Tinder was some accident.” Further, as Mr. Rad informed Ms. Wolfe, IAC would not let her be publicly recognized as a co-founder." It's rare to see sexism in tech spelled out so blatantly. If the above is true, that's absolutely despicable.
- tomp 12y ago
  Don't be silly, that has nothing to do with sexism in tech and everything to do with sexism of a single idiot. I, for one, would be really happy to have a girl co-founder (I would be equally happy to have a guy co-founder, though).
  - muglug 12y ago
    That's great for you. But (if he wrote it) he didn't write that in a bubble. He wrote it in an environment where an overwhelming proportion of startups are founded by young white men. Put another way, a man in a rural southern town calling Obama the n-word is just a solitary act, but one cannot discount the racism of that man's peers in promoting the use of that word to describe black people.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- rayiner 12y ago
  The deep irony if this is that at the time this conversation allegedly took place, Mateen was just a 26 year old "boy" a few years out of school. It takes a lot of balls to pull the age card on someone two years younger than you.
- discardorama 12y ago
  > It's rare to see sexism in tech spelled out so blatantly. Read some of the comments here; you won't be disappointed.
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tomp 12y ago
Let's just keep in mind that these are merely allegations, and that no-one was convicted, and no investigation has completed so far. I hope the media and the courts don't ruin another person's life based on allegations that turn out to be false, as in the case of Julian Assange and the recent Oxford Union scandal. Also, keep in mind that it is in Tinder's interest to put all blame to the employee that sent the allegedly inappropriate private messages. We have no idea what the true nature of their relationship was, how it evolved, and if it ended on a bad note. I'm not saying that he is innocent, but he should be treated as such until he is proved guilty.
- ikt 12y ago
  > "the courts don't ruin another person's life based on allegations that turn out to be false, as in the case of Julian Assange" I think your bias might be leaking but the case against Assange was never shown to be false. As far as I'm aware he's still in an embassy avoiding his trial.
  - tomp 12y ago
    Exactly. They weren't shown to be true, either. He is in the embassy waiting to be charged, not avoiding trial.
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      The point is that it's not a very good example of "allegations that turn out to be false" - they haven't turned out at all.
bradleyjg 12y ago
One not completely obvious lesson that can be drawn from this, has to do with preventing cases like this from being filed in the first place. If you look at the last exhibit in the complaint, even at the very end the CEO (Rad) could have negotiated what sounds like a very modest settlement if he had been willing to be a little understanding and flexible. Instead he went into some legalistic lock down mode and refused to consider even a token severance. Now perhaps before signing anything Ms. Wolfe would have consulted a lawyer and so there would have been a lawsuit anyway. And as a disinterested observer, I would kind of hope so. But the pragmatic lesson for people who might be in a similar situation is that a little humility and understanding can go a long way. I'm reminded of the study finding that doctors who apologized for medical mistakes ended up being sued less often for medical malpractice. Of course, by far the best thing is to avoid such situations altogether!
- danielweber 12y ago
  Even if she got a lawyer, that doesn't mean there would be no settlement. Her lawyer would highlight the stuff on page 6 and 7, in which corporate policy was apparently that having a "girl" as cofounder devalues the company, and ask for more money. And, if they were smart, they would have agreed. Insurance might have even covered it. It's not fool-proof; sometimes people are treated so awfully that they want the feeling of justice from a trial. As you say, best to avoid these situations altogether.
- _delirium 12y ago
  Instead he went into some legalistic lock down mode and refused to consider even a token severance. I can see going into some kind of "legalistic lock down mode" if you suddenly are worried about a lawsuit, but in that case it might be prudent to get an actual lawyer's advice. I'm not a lawyer myself, but it seems unlikely that the CEO's actions here are something that the company's lawyer would've advised. It sounds like she was asking for honestly much less than she should've been asking for, and unless there's something I'm missing, I can't believe it was in the company's interests for him to refuse that offer. She was offering to resign in return for quite modest severance conditions, and my guess is that a corporate lawyer would've been happy to advise the CEO to accept the offer and close the affair.
nelsonenzo 12y ago
That was just plain straight up sexual harasment, you can ask any HR person. It really doesn't matter what she did, once a person asks you to stop harassing them, they really really really should stop, legally speaking. I was going to get the Tinder app myself, but forget it. I can't support assholes like this who give guys and tech a bad name. I hope she, or someone else, mounts a marketing campaign asking females to delete their accounts from the app. Let it become another tired wasteland of a cockfest, and then they will know how important a female founder can actually be. p.s. -no, i'm not a female, i just get pissed because tech guys constantly have a bad name and i constantly need to defend the fact that we are not all assholes.
deleted 12y ago
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vachi 12y ago
IDK how many of you have read the texts, http://www.rezlaw.com/News-Events/06-30-14_Complaint_with_Exhibits-1.pdf http://www.rezlaw.com/News-Events/06-30-14_Complaint_with_Ex... They are incredibly sad, The fact that individuals who wrote them can call themselves executives of any position is baffling, From the side of Ms. Wolfe, i do have to hey texts are very calm, well the screens chosen do depict that, however the texts of Mateen and Sean, are bizarrely foul, if they are true as there is no doubt that the moment that they are not, Ms Wolfe should shit on these fuck faces
randyrand 12y ago
Is this really an entire suite about name-calling? How old are we? Calling people names should be protected by free speech. These sexual harassment cases do more to hurt women than help them IMHO. It reinforces the viewpoint that women are seen as a liability.
- vajorie 12y ago
  > These sexual harassment cases do more to hurt women than help them IMHO. It reinforces the viewpoint that women are seen as a liability. Let me translate what you just said: if someone harasses you at your workplace and elsewhere, and as such causes harm to you, and do so also by deploying systematically dissipated stereotypes (yes, they are social weapons), you shall not press charges, because if you do, you would be a petty little girl who is causing harm to your company. ...
  - randyrand 12y ago
    That is not what I said at all.... If someone harms me I'm obviously going to press charges. The issue is whether those charges should actually have legal basis.
JoachimSchipper 12y ago
Tinder is "casual sex: the app". Sexism is a very real and very serious problem in the IT world. But Tinder is not the most boringly neutral tech company you can find, especially in this particular sense. It's good to keep the special-ness of this case in mind. For instance, sexism usually doesn't get this bad. On the other hand, an atmosphere that isn't as hostile as this can still be, well, bad.
deleted 12y ago
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156 points by smartera 12y ago

Wow, if this is true, what a horrible person. All the efforts to get more women interested in tech, trampled. Hopefully, people will learn from this how to not do it and that still in 2014 misogynism is completely present and will get swept under the carpet.

purringmeow 12y ago
The article stated the lawsuit has been started and I didn't see any verdict. So let's not be quick to judge, we've heard only 1 side of the story.
- MangezBien 12y ago
  Is there another side that would make any of these actions acceptable? I can't think of any.
  - WalterSear 12y ago
    Guilty! Guilty! Burn them! Burn them!
    - ossreality 12y ago
      That'd be your straw man burning, actually.
  - xienze 12y ago
    You're making the assumption that the allegations are 100% truthful in the first place.
    - MangezBien 12y ago
      I should have been more specific. I was referring to the text messages. In what light is anything he texted her acceptable? Are you implying that they may be fabricated?
      - xienze 12y ago
        The texts aren't official records from the phone company, they're just screenshots of iMessage. Can't fake those! I'm just a little skeptical because if you read the complaint, it's mostly about her trying to assert her co-founder status with sexual harassment as a bludgeon.
        DanBC 12y ago
        She claims she was given co-founder status, and that the reason it was removed was sexist. That's an important claim about the company as a whole, and not just about one person at that company.
    - vor_ 12y ago
      Tinder has confirmed the messages. Here they are: http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassment http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassm...
      - purringmeow 12y ago
        That's pathetic. This guy seems to have the emotional development of a 5 year old.
  - renaudg 12y ago
    Yeah, let's get rid of judges and always apply the maximum sentence if found guilty, regardless of circumstances or what the other party did. Binary justice sounds like an especially wonderful idea when the matter is human relationships.
j4kp07 12y ago
Really? One bad breakup between two C-types and "ALL" of the efforts to bring MORE women into tech is trampled? IMHO...this has nothing to do with Tinder or the parent company. Because, guess what happens when you decide to enter the dating world? You may get burned, called bad names or become generally upset. So don't shit where you eat and then blame the cafeteria for the bad taste left in your mouth.
- Loughla 12y ago
  No, but that's why many cafeterias have a 'no shitting where you eat' policy that results in immediate termination.
- instaheat 12y ago
  Thank you. I agree. I don't know why I got downvoted so much for my comment.
- wellboy 12y ago
  One bad breakup between two C-types and "ALL" of the efforts to bring MORE women into tech is trampled? Well, yeah. Only half of the efforts trampeled?
- zacharycohn 12y ago
  This has everything to do with Tinder when the CEO is aware of harassment and abuse, yet does nothing.
- easytiger 12y ago
  IMHO this has nothing to do with tech either. Could easily replace tinder with a used car sales company and no one would be suprised.

DanielBMarkham 12y ago

I don't want to comment on this particular story. These are terrible allegations and they deserve their day in court. There's also a drive-by, rubber-necking, gossip-mongering aspect to these stories. Hate to contribute to it. I would like to comment on all the heat sexual discrimination cases are getting in the public eye lately. (I have no idea if the number of actual cases are increasing, decreasing, or staying the same). Big, public, messy scandals are no good for anybody, and they're not a new phenomenon. We have various professions where lawsuits of a sexual nature can be especially damaging. A couple that come to mind right off the bat are politicians and religious leaders. I've heard that in many cases, the threat of an unfounded lawsuit is so great, and it could cause so much harm, that folks are sticking with same-sex environments where there are always 3 or more people in a room together. I wonder if we'll see such adaptations in the startup industry. It could be that the public outcry after so many of these things, to include more women, might actually drive out more highly segregated work environments. It bears watching.

ChuckMcM 12y ago
I was wondering a related question, which is whether or not there is a higher, similar, or lower incidence of sexual harassment in "technology" firms than other firms of similar size (number of employees, annual revenue). It is not uncommon for people who work together, to get romantically involved in spite of advice against such relationships. But I don't see anything specifically 'tech' related that would make this more or less likely. Hence the question.
- DanielBMarkham 12y ago
  Call me cynical, but when I read all the comments on sites like this and others about these lawsuits in the tech industry, it leads me to believe that a lot of writers and editors somewhere are not idiots -- they're digging these things up and feeding them to us. That didn't answer your question, I know. My point is that there are tons of tech companies. It can certainly appear to be a tremendous surge when in fact it's just a small extra effort made in reporting cases. Without a statistical survey we can't be sure. We can be sure about the economics of creating content, though. With this kind of visceral reaction, it's a publisher's dream. Not only can you report the allegation, then you can report the reply, then the comments from the community, then the play-by-play action in court, etc. Just gauge how much effort to put into it by how many pageviews you're pulling. Newspaper 101 stuff.

_delirium 12y ago

The complaint is here, fwiw: http://www.rezlaw.com/News-Events/06-30-14_Complaint_with_Exhibits-1.pdf http://www.rezlaw.com/News-Events/06-30-14_Complaint_with_Ex...

spaldingwell 12y ago
Some pretty bad stuff that Buzzfeed found in the complaint: http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassment http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassm...
- raverbashing 12y ago
  Crap, that's really over the top
- swalkergibson 12y ago
  Wow. What a steaming pile of useless crap Mr. Mateen is. Those texts are ruthless and unrelenting. I hope that she gets millions in compensation and this asshat gets fired immediately. Fucking prick.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

sergiotapia 12y ago

He-said-she-said, bleh. And these things come to light after a breakup between the two of them. Seriously, who would trust what either of them say? It'll get settled in court no doubt, but let's not jump on the bandwagon here. Edit: http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassment http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassm... - If this is real the guy is a real piece of shit. -This- is the type of guy who should be removed from his company. If the guy in Github was forced to leave this is probably a sure-thing.

kibibu 12y ago
> He-said-she-said, bleh Documented by text messages in the complaint
- sergiotapia 12y ago
  Then that's good, no more hearsay nonsense. Let's hope justice is served. The complaint wasn't linked in the original article.
kaonashi 12y ago
> He-said-she-said, bleh. It sounds like there is documentary evidence, so I'm wondering why you would characterize it like that.
jessaustin 12y ago
TIL it's a bad idea to date your direct report or your boss.
- sergiotapia 12y ago
  Hahaha, I know right. You think this is common sense...yet here we are.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - 12y ago

kaonashi 12y ago

> "We unequivocally condemn these messages," the spokesman said, "but believe that Ms. Wolfe’s allegations with respect to Tinder and its management are unfounded.” Uh-huh.

dbloom 12y ago

Before we all jump on the "he-said-she-said" bandwagon, keep in mind that IAC (Tinder's parent company) has confirmed that Mr. Mateen did send harassing messages to Ms. Wolfe: "Through that process, it has become clear that Mr. Mateen sent private messages to Ms. Wolfe containing inappropriate content." <http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/06/30/tinder-sexual-harassment/11812153/> http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/06/30/tinder-sexual-... The rest of the allegations are unproven, but the allegation that Mr. Mateen harassed Ms. Wolfe is, for all intents and purposes, 100% factual. There's no reason to defend this guy.

j4kp07 12y ago
Key word: Private. Where do you draw the line when you work with and are dating the same person? The only fault I see here on IAC is hiring people who are dating.
- aikah 12y ago
  IANAL but AFAIK if I send a mail to you it's not private and can totally be accepted as evidence in a court of law.There is no notion of privacy in sending a mail,a text message,... the only thing that would not be admissible is if I recorded a conversation between us without telling you you are on record.
  - tbrownaw 12y ago
    the only thing that would not be admissible is if I recorded a conversation between us without telling you you are on record. Doesn't that vary by state? IIRC in some you can record anything you're involved in while in others everyone involved has to agree (or at least know?). Or maybe this was about getting sued under privacy laws rather than admissibility...
- dbloom 12y ago
  > Key word: Private. This is a ballpark guess, but probably about 99% of workplace harassment is done privately. > Where do you draw the line when you work with and are dating the same person? The only fault I see here on IAC is hiring people who are dating. If a manager has a relationship with a subordinate, the manager should be held accountable for that, not the subordinate.

instaheat 12y ago

Sounds like a typical bad breakup to me, these two people just happen to work in high profile positions in the Tech world. Girl finds new man, guy gets angry and lashes out by calling her a whore.(Unfounded) Nothing to see here folks! Unless you're into this sort of drama...

dbloom 12y ago
So why did the woman get fired? Why didn't the man get fired? Does this seem fair to you?
- instaheat 12y ago
  Of course not. I am not endorsing his actions.
- klipt 12y ago
  Probably because in this case the man was the boss, and bosses tend to fire underlings more than the other way around. And this is why dating across workplace power differentials is a bad idea: it makes a bad breakup exponentially worse.
bdcravens 12y ago
If your ex works with/for you, you have a legal obligation to keep your mouth shut, no matter how emotionally torn up you are.

davidw 12y ago

Previous go round on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7969301 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7969301

teamhappy 12y ago

I'm shocked, shocked ...

ctide 12y ago

Posts like these remind me how many socially maladjusted misogynists exist on this site just waiting for stuff like this so they can throw their 2c in. It says right there that IAC confirmed he sent the messages. The rest of this honestly does not matter at all, it's just kindling on the fire. Those alone are enough to prove that he sexually harassed her. If you're honestly trying to argue that we 'don't know all that facts' and that 'we shouldn't jump to conclusions' then I feel bad for any women who have to interact with you because you're probably a fucking scumbag too.

bitchypat 12y ago
You might work on your delivery of the whole "If you don't agree with me, then you're a fucking scumbag" thing. People more sensitive than I might construe that as inappropriate - perhaps as harassment.
- vor_ 12y ago
  He didn't say that if you didn't agree with him, you're a fucking scumbag. He said that if you're still claiming we should reserve judgement after it's been confirmed that the messages were sent, you're a fucking scumbag. In my opinion, that's a non-controversial statement and likely to be true. Edit: Here are the messages: http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassment http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/tinder-sued-for-sexual-harassm...
  - bmelton 12y ago
    And yet, where's the harm in waiting for the full story to be revealed? As an apologist mechanism, I'll concede that it's lacking, but even in the face of evidence, we should be wary of indicting anything for which we don't have personal, inside involvement, but even for cases, like this, for which there appears to be evidence, predisposing ourselves to a cause makes it less likely that we'll adjust our opinions in the event that counter-evidence is provided, or the existing evidence is placed into a context which might make it otherwise reasonable. Note, I'm not suggesting that any of the above applies here, but as a general practice, avoiding prejudgement in the absence of all the facts is a bad way to approach gossip.

snvzz 12y ago

These private message things are appropriate until (possibly years after breaking up) it's convenient for one party to say otherwise. This bullshit should be put to an end.

aqme28 12y ago

"Mr. Mateen told Ms. Wolfe that the reason she could no longer hold herself out as a co-founder was that she was a 24-year-old “girl” with little experience. Once again he said that holding her out as a co-founder “makes the company look like a joke” and “devalues the company.” Mr. Mateen tried to justify the situation by saying “Facebook and Snapchat don’t have girl founders, it just makes it look like Tinder was some accident.” Further, as Mr. Rad informed Ms. Wolfe, IAC would not let her be publicly recognized as a co-founder." It's rare to see sexism in tech spelled out so blatantly. If the above is true, that's absolutely despicable.

tomp 12y ago
Don't be silly, that has nothing to do with sexism in tech and everything to do with sexism of a single idiot. I, for one, would be really happy to have a girl co-founder (I would be equally happy to have a guy co-founder, though).
- muglug 12y ago
  That's great for you. But (if he wrote it) he didn't write that in a bubble. He wrote it in an environment where an overwhelming proportion of startups are founded by young white men. Put another way, a man in a rural southern town calling Obama the n-word is just a solitary act, but one cannot discount the racism of that man's peers in promoting the use of that word to describe black people.
- deleted 12y ago
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rayiner 12y ago
The deep irony if this is that at the time this conversation allegedly took place, Mateen was just a 26 year old "boy" a few years out of school. It takes a lot of balls to pull the age card on someone two years younger than you.
discardorama 12y ago
> It's rare to see sexism in tech spelled out so blatantly. Read some of the comments here; you won't be disappointed.

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tomp 12y ago

Let's just keep in mind that these are merely allegations, and that no-one was convicted, and no investigation has completed so far. I hope the media and the courts don't ruin another person's life based on allegations that turn out to be false, as in the case of Julian Assange and the recent Oxford Union scandal. Also, keep in mind that it is in Tinder's interest to put all blame to the employee that sent the allegedly inappropriate private messages. We have no idea what the true nature of their relationship was, how it evolved, and if it ended on a bad note. I'm not saying that he is innocent, but he should be treated as such until he is proved guilty.

ikt 12y ago
> "the courts don't ruin another person's life based on allegations that turn out to be false, as in the case of Julian Assange" I think your bias might be leaking but the case against Assange was never shown to be false. As far as I'm aware he's still in an embassy avoiding his trial.
- tomp 12y ago
  Exactly. They weren't shown to be true, either. He is in the embassy waiting to be charged, not avoiding trial.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    The point is that it's not a very good example of "allegations that turn out to be false" - they haven't turned out at all.

bradleyjg 12y ago

One not completely obvious lesson that can be drawn from this, has to do with preventing cases like this from being filed in the first place. If you look at the last exhibit in the complaint, even at the very end the CEO (Rad) could have negotiated what sounds like a very modest settlement if he had been willing to be a little understanding and flexible. Instead he went into some legalistic lock down mode and refused to consider even a token severance. Now perhaps before signing anything Ms. Wolfe would have consulted a lawyer and so there would have been a lawsuit anyway. And as a disinterested observer, I would kind of hope so. But the pragmatic lesson for people who might be in a similar situation is that a little humility and understanding can go a long way. I'm reminded of the study finding that doctors who apologized for medical mistakes ended up being sued less often for medical malpractice. Of course, by far the best thing is to avoid such situations altogether!

danielweber 12y ago
Even if she got a lawyer, that doesn't mean there would be no settlement. Her lawyer would highlight the stuff on page 6 and 7, in which corporate policy was apparently that having a "girl" as cofounder devalues the company, and ask for more money. And, if they were smart, they would have agreed. Insurance might have even covered it. It's not fool-proof; sometimes people are treated so awfully that they want the feeling of justice from a trial. As you say, best to avoid these situations altogether.
_delirium 12y ago
Instead he went into some legalistic lock down mode and refused to consider even a token severance. I can see going into some kind of "legalistic lock down mode" if you suddenly are worried about a lawsuit, but in that case it might be prudent to get an actual lawyer's advice. I'm not a lawyer myself, but it seems unlikely that the CEO's actions here are something that the company's lawyer would've advised. It sounds like she was asking for honestly much less than she should've been asking for, and unless there's something I'm missing, I can't believe it was in the company's interests for him to refuse that offer. She was offering to resign in return for quite modest severance conditions, and my guess is that a corporate lawyer would've been happy to advise the CEO to accept the offer and close the affair.

nelsonenzo 12y ago

That was just plain straight up sexual harasment, you can ask any HR person. It really doesn't matter what she did, once a person asks you to stop harassing them, they really really really should stop, legally speaking. I was going to get the Tinder app myself, but forget it. I can't support assholes like this who give guys and tech a bad name. I hope she, or someone else, mounts a marketing campaign asking females to delete their accounts from the app. Let it become another tired wasteland of a cockfest, and then they will know how important a female founder can actually be. p.s. -no, i'm not a female, i just get pissed because tech guys constantly have a bad name and i constantly need to defend the fact that we are not all assholes.

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vachi 12y ago

IDK how many of you have read the texts, http://www.rezlaw.com/News-Events/06-30-14_Complaint_with_Exhibits-1.pdf http://www.rezlaw.com/News-Events/06-30-14_Complaint_with_Ex... They are incredibly sad, The fact that individuals who wrote them can call themselves executives of any position is baffling, From the side of Ms. Wolfe, i do have to hey texts are very calm, well the screens chosen do depict that, however the texts of Mateen and Sean, are bizarrely foul, if they are true as there is no doubt that the moment that they are not, Ms Wolfe should shit on these fuck faces

randyrand 12y ago

Is this really an entire suite about name-calling? How old are we? Calling people names should be protected by free speech. These sexual harassment cases do more to hurt women than help them IMHO. It reinforces the viewpoint that women are seen as a liability.

vajorie 12y ago
> These sexual harassment cases do more to hurt women than help them IMHO. It reinforces the viewpoint that women are seen as a liability. Let me translate what you just said: if someone harasses you at your workplace and elsewhere, and as such causes harm to you, and do so also by deploying systematically dissipated stereotypes (yes, they are social weapons), you shall not press charges, because if you do, you would be a petty little girl who is causing harm to your company. ...
- randyrand 12y ago
  That is not what I said at all.... If someone harms me I'm obviously going to press charges. The issue is whether those charges should actually have legal basis.

JoachimSchipper 12y ago

Tinder is "casual sex: the app". Sexism is a very real and very serious problem in the IT world. But Tinder is not the most boringly neutral tech company you can find, especially in this particular sense. It's good to keep the special-ness of this case in mind. For instance, sexism usually doesn't get this bad. On the other hand, an atmosphere that isn't as hostile as this can still be, well, bad.

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