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It's very cool that they are doing this. But, for anyone who tries it, there's something very important to keep in mind: Low latency is critical to VR! Unfor
by corysama 12y ago
It's very cool that they are doing this. But, for anyone who tries it, there's something very important to keep in mind: Low latency is critical to VR! Unfortunately, Android sensors and graphics pipelines have very poor latency. If you try this and get terrible motion sickness, don't dismiss VR as a vomit inducer.
In fact, many people have reported that spending time in VR, and taking a break whenever motion sickness creeps up, actually reduces motion sickness outside of VR. As in, people are saying "After playing in my Rift for a few weeks, I can suddenly read in the car for the first time!"
- toomuchtodo 12y ago> In fact, many people have reported that spending time in VR, and taking a break whenever motion sickness creeps up, actually reduces motion sickness outside of VR. As in, people are saying "After playing in my Rift for a few weeks, I can suddenly read in the car for the first time!" Is this because the VR experience is causing your brain to recalibrate your vestibular system [1]? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibular_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibular_system
- samskeller 12y agoAnd if so, could we use VR to help people with vestibular disorders?
- toomuchtodo 12y agoIt appears that it is entirely possible.
- muraiki 12y agoAfter I had a bad concussion, one of the biggest things that helped -- with a multitude of post concussion syndrome symptoms, not just vision/movement -- was vestibular therapy. It consisted of things like having the word "dog" on a sheet of paper on a wall and keeping my eyes focused on it while turning my head left and right to a metronome. Once I got better at that, we'd either increase the speed or add "distractions" like having "dog" written on black and white checkered boxes. But more related to what you're saying, there are actually therapy systems that use multiple displays to simulate things like walking through a grocery store. Some people after a concussion can't even go through a grocery store because all the stimulus of different boxes plus movement overwhelms them. An even simpler thing I did was simply to watch youtube videos of people walking through areas with a shaky camera or a dashboard camera from a car driving at night (dealing with other cars' lights). So if those 2d versions are effective, perhaps VR can also help.
- electromagnetic 12y agoMore than likely. Our brains are very adaptable, it would appear this is more similar to how people have been "recalibrated" to chronic pain and extreme phobias. The chronic pain example is that a prolonged duration (about 2 weeks) of being free of pain medications can cause the body to adapt and recognize it's over-interpreting pain. The extreme phobia was if you had someone with a severe phobia of snakes, you would put them into a room with a few dozen snakes in cages and lock them in until they recalibrate as their body can only stay in panic for so long. However... it isn't the most ethical way as it actually is possible to suffer heart failure from fear.
- toomuchtodo 12y agoI've heard of the phobia method, as your body eventually exhausts its adrenaline stores and you're able to address the issue more rationally instead of under physiological duress. I had not heard about the chronic pain example though; thank you!
- dgallagher 12y ago> I've heard of the phobia method, as your body eventually exhausts its adrenaline stores and you're able to address the issue more rationally instead of under physiological duress. If you're talking about Adrenal Fatigue, then that's pseudoscience not backed by the medical community[1] (though you will find plenty of "solutions" for it on the internet, for your money of course ;) ). [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenal_fatigue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenal_fatigue
- malandrew 12y agoMirror boxes as a way to treat phantom limb issues are somewhat related to the idea of the body "recalibrating": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_box http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_box
- ekianjo 12y ago> The chronic pain example is that a prolonged duration (about 2 weeks) of being free of pain medications can cause the body to adapt and recognize it's over-interpreting pain. Yeah, but the pain never really goes away, though. But the time effect is definitely true.
- lutorm 12y agoI think you can train it in general. Astronauts, for example, usually get over zero-g sickness after a while, and flying in small planes makes you less sensitive to turbulence.
- marcosdumay 12y ago"Recalibrating" here may mean just learning to ignore it.
- azimuth11 12y agoI really think this is better describe as habituation.
- cma 12y agoHopefully not recalibrating it to "ignore" your vestibular system..
- vanderZwan 12y agoI suspect it's more like "decoupling" vision and vestibular system.
- Aissen 12y agoThere's hardware for that: http://www.framiral.fr/eng/multitest.php http://www.framiral.fr/eng/multitest.php Designed for military training, this type of device is now available for civilian treatment. Must be cheaper to use an Occulus though.
- mikeash 12y agoThat last bit is really interesting. If it works, it would be worth it for me just for the that effect, even ignoring the potential fun and amusement.
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- keevie 12y agoI believe there are different things causing the nausea in those two cases, so that wouldn't be a concern.
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- mikeash 12y agoThere's extreme variation among humans anyway. Some people hurl at the slightest touch. Some people can withstand severe turbulence with their head down and not feel a thing. Moving towards that end of the spectrum won't hurt you any more than those people already experience.
- thefreeman 12y agoDid you try it? The latency was actually pretty decent, though I don't have a the full headset to try it sufficiently. I am sure it is nothing near something like the Rift, but it's a neat proof of concept to start getting the VR idea out there.
- rectangletangle 12y agoI wonder if it would help deal with seasickness.
- kllrnohj 12y ago> Android sensors and graphics pipelines have very poor latency. I'm not familiar with the sensors latency but the graphics pipeline certainly doesn't have "very poor latency". If you aren't dropping frames the app is just running in double buffering. Android then adds a single extra frame of latency as it doesn't "race the beam" so to speak, so the grand total latency added by the system in the graphics pipeline is 16ms. Aka, pretty damn good. I haven't seen any data whatsoever one way or another about sensors, so got a source on that? I've seen much about touch latency, but that's the hardware not Android (and on a Nexus 5 the touch latency clocks in at about 20ms - closer to fan-fucking-tastic than "very poor")
- liuliu 12y agoJohn Carmack talked about latency issues in modern graphics pipeline in length: http://www.altdev.co/2013/02/22/latency-mitigation-strategies/ http://www.altdev.co/2013/02/22/latency-mitigation-strategie...
- nitrogen 12y ago16ms is way too long for VR.
- kllrnohj 12y agoSeeing as nobody has a VR system with lower than 16ms latency, we honestly truly don't have any idea what lower than 16ms even feels like, much less are in any position to assert that 16ms is "way too long".
- nitrogen 12y agoMichael Abrash (Valve, Oculus): http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/latency-the-sine-qua-non-of-ar-and-vr/ http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/latency-the-sine-qua-n... John Carmack (Id, Oculus): http://www.altdev.co/2013/02/22/latency-mitigation-strategies/ http://www.altdev.co/2013/02/22/latency-mitigation-strategie... Both of them have done testing with custom very low latency systems.
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- DonHopkins 12y agoVR will finally become mainstream when someone fully leverages its motion sickness inducing potential, and develops an effective weight loss system.