7 ms·

Open Automotive Alliance

55 points by Zikes 12y ago

scrollaway 12y ago
What is the background behind Tesla not being in there? Don't they run Android on their Model S?
- brian_herman 12y ago
  http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-s-ethernet-network-explored-possible-jailbreak-in-the-future http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-s-ethernet-network...
- dmritard96 12y ago
  actually i think they run ubuntu + firefox for the dash at least http://green.autoblog.com/2014/04/12/tesla-model-s-owners-hack-their-cars-find-ubuntu/ http://green.autoblog.com/2014/04/12/tesla-model-s-owners-ha...
psbp 12y ago
Wasn't Toyota one of the initial partners? What happened to them?
- UVB-76 12y ago
  By the looks of things Toyota are going their own way through a partnership with IBM: http://www.zdnet.com/ibm-toyota-to-create-application-development-platform-for-autos-7000030783/ http://www.zdnet.com/ibm-toyota-to-create-application-develo...
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    They're also working with Apple on CarPlay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarPlay#Manufacturers_and_brands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarPlay#Manufacturers_and_bran...
joezydeco 12y ago
Another Open Handset Alliance? Wonderful. http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/ http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/ (last updated 2011)
georgemcbay 12y ago
Based on the name alone one could reasonably assume this alliance will achieve no real world goals, will continue to sort of chug along for years and then the next time you'll hear about it is if/when the remaining members finally smother it with a pillow.
- SyncTheory13 12y ago
  This is a Google initiative mirroring their Android OpenHandsetALliance. I think that worked out pretty well for them...
  - sounds 12y ago
    Google is fighting Samsung and Amazon for control of the Android ecosystem. As a result, they have to lock down more and more of their apps (leaving the AOSP version to languish) [1]. So while I agree with you that it "worked out pretty well for them" -- namely that Google is still relevant in the Android ecosystem -- I think we can all agree that the Open Handset Alliance is not the real reason for Google's Android success. That's my premise for saying the Open Automotive Alliance is just Google's attempt to dominate in-vehicle interfaces. I don't think Google's going for a proprietary connector like Apple -- I am glad this is Google we're talking about, so the result is likely just some Android APIs that use bluetooth on a select few car models. This is definitely not a new era of open hardware in your car or something like that (which would actually be interesting). [1] http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-...
  - joezydeco 12y ago
    ...for Google, you mean. Yes, it did. Having had the experience of working for one of the OHA companies during the development/launch of Android, the whole thing was less of an alliance/partnership and more of a "here's all the companies contracting or giving their stuff to Android to get the system in launch condition". We were subcontractors.
- JimmaDaRustla 12y ago
  Ahh, the standard #1 pessimistic HN comment...
whistlecrackers 12y ago
There's not as much buy-in as their page shows. There are lot of brands listed there, but many of them are of the same manufacturer. For example: Abarth, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, and Ram -- all one company. Honda/Acura, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan/Renault, etc.
- tbolse 12y ago
  Same for Volkswagen which owns amongst others: Audi, Bentley, Skoda and of course Volkswagen itself. But these "brands" at least partially have their own development departments. Audi for example operates quite independent in many regards.
  - whistlecrackers 12y ago
    No mention of Lamborghini, though.
tbolse 12y ago
I still wonder about the role of CloudCar in regards to Google and to Android. At least the Startup is somehow connected to Andy Rubin [1], the original founder of Android. CloudCar also has some good engineers that know the automotive infotainment space quite well. "The startup may not be Rubin’s next place of employment, but he is connected to it: after the rumor hit, and then he denied it on Twitter, he further clarified in a Google+ post that CloudCar “are a group of friends who I give free office space to in my incubator in Los Altos.”" [1] [1] http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/22/cloudcar-the-stealthy-startup-that-andy-rubin-is-not-joining-has-raised-11-5m/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/22/cloudcar-the-stealthy-start...
- outside1234 12y ago
  CloudCar is part of the WebTV mafia. Bruce Lee and Andy Rubin both worked on WebTV and this is the connection. There are a very large number of WebTV alumni working in the Android team at Google as well. There are a number of WebTV folks at Nest Labs and this is another connection to Google (no matter how much the Nest Labs folks claim then aren't part of Google). So yes, CloudCar is well connected into Google.
SyncTheory13 12y ago
I think the automotive industry is finally catching on to all the new technology and new apps/utilities/data sources. Comparing a car in 2020 to a car in 2010 will be like comparing 1960 to 1995. I really hope OpenXC from Ford plays a big role in this initiative. http://openxcplatform.com/ http://openxcplatform.com/
- maxerickson 12y ago
  Isn't reasonable audio integration most of the win? There's lots of nice things to do around navigation, but they don't seem to matter a lot, especially if the audio integration is working well (because then just use the navigation on the phone).
  - SyncTheory13 12y ago
    I'm looking for deeper-level driving analysis - like telling the driver they brake too hard... As well as connectivity to smartphones to use in place of proximity keys/alarms/remote start/etc. Some of this, we're already seeing, but I think there is a huge opportunity here.
    - bri3d 12y ago
      Automatic (YC, I think) do a good amount of that driving analysis, like telling the driver they brake or accelerate too hard, using only OBD-II and an accelerometer. I think a built-in system doing this kind of thing would be really cool. The technology is obviously already there, but the software isn't, so having an app platform creates a lot of opportunity. I wonder how deep Google will be able to convince manufacturers to take the integration - modern cars expose a ton of data and functionality over the CAN bus, but it's all undocumented and proprietary and is often obfuscated as well.
      - SyncTheory13 12y ago
        OpenXC supplies a lot of the groundwork for this, for use with Android: http://openxcplatform.com/about/data-set.html http://openxcplatform.com/about/data-set.html http://openxcplatform.com/projects/index.html http://openxcplatform.com/projects/index.html I think they also provide the interface for free for interested developers... Could be mistaken. Basically, the idea is to make it better documented and less proprietary... Then support a developer community for apps that can interface with the broader range of data than OBDII can provide.
kator 12y ago
Reaction to Tesla?
- briandh 12y ago
  Reaction to what about Tesla? This is promoting Google's Android-based IVI platform. In addition, the OAA was first announced in January.
- eplanit 12y ago
  Part of the motivation is in reaction to, and to compete with Genivi. That said, I think the OAA has broader goals than Genivi. Whether either organization accomplishes anything is to be seen. http://genivi.org/ http://genivi.org/
  - briandh 12y ago
    I don't know much about GENIVI, but looking at the Wikipedia page, it turns out it has automakers involved that are also part of the OAA (Renault, Nissan, Hyundai, and GM, unless I'm skipping any). And there's overlap in the tech companies involved, too, of course.
- mrpippy 12y ago
  No, it's competition for/keeping pace with Apple CarPlay. CarPlay is an extremely "sticky" part of the iOS ecosystem: if someone uses CarPlay for navigation, music playback, etc and their car only supports CarPlay, that user can't realistically switch away from iOS (until they buy a new car) without giving up major features. But now that Android Auto is essentially the same thing, and should have pretty widespread availability, it takes away a reason for users to stay with iOS.
blocke 12y ago
Looks like the important thing here is now is that you don't have to care that Android runs on your dash computer. It's that the phone is using your cars built in display, touchpad, buttons, microphones and speakers as an attached display, speakers, and inputs to the phone. The actual apps run on your phone and so your car gets updates when the software on the phone gets updates. This mode is highly preferable to the end-user apps living in the dash computer as that will not get upgraded worth a damn over the life of the car no matter what. This is exactly what I'd want to see in this situation and I can't wait to get an aftermarket replacement to cover the gap until I need my next car.

55 points by Zikes 12y ago

scrollaway 12y ago

What is the background behind Tesla not being in there? Don't they run Android on their Model S?

brian_herman 12y ago
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-s-ethernet-network-explored-possible-jailbreak-in-the-future http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-s-ethernet-network...
dmritard96 12y ago
actually i think they run ubuntu + firefox for the dash at least http://green.autoblog.com/2014/04/12/tesla-model-s-owners-hack-their-cars-find-ubuntu/ http://green.autoblog.com/2014/04/12/tesla-model-s-owners-ha...

psbp 12y ago

Wasn't Toyota one of the initial partners? What happened to them?

UVB-76 12y ago
By the looks of things Toyota are going their own way through a partnership with IBM: http://www.zdnet.com/ibm-toyota-to-create-application-development-platform-for-autos-7000030783/ http://www.zdnet.com/ibm-toyota-to-create-application-develo...
- Someone1234 12y ago
  They're also working with Apple on CarPlay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarPlay#Manufacturers_and_brands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarPlay#Manufacturers_and_bran...

joezydeco 12y ago

Another Open Handset Alliance? Wonderful. http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/ http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/ (last updated 2011)

georgemcbay 12y ago

Based on the name alone one could reasonably assume this alliance will achieve no real world goals, will continue to sort of chug along for years and then the next time you'll hear about it is if/when the remaining members finally smother it with a pillow.

SyncTheory13 12y ago
This is a Google initiative mirroring their Android OpenHandsetALliance. I think that worked out pretty well for them...
- sounds 12y ago
  Google is fighting Samsung and Amazon for control of the Android ecosystem. As a result, they have to lock down more and more of their apps (leaving the AOSP version to languish) [1]. So while I agree with you that it "worked out pretty well for them" -- namely that Google is still relevant in the Android ecosystem -- I think we can all agree that the Open Handset Alliance is not the real reason for Google's Android success. That's my premise for saying the Open Automotive Alliance is just Google's attempt to dominate in-vehicle interfaces. I don't think Google's going for a proprietary connector like Apple -- I am glad this is Google we're talking about, so the result is likely just some Android APIs that use bluetooth on a select few car models. This is definitely not a new era of open hardware in your car or something like that (which would actually be interesting). [1] http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-...
- joezydeco 12y ago
  ...for Google, you mean. Yes, it did. Having had the experience of working for one of the OHA companies during the development/launch of Android, the whole thing was less of an alliance/partnership and more of a "here's all the companies contracting or giving their stuff to Android to get the system in launch condition". We were subcontractors.
JimmaDaRustla 12y ago
Ahh, the standard #1 pessimistic HN comment...

whistlecrackers 12y ago

There's not as much buy-in as their page shows. There are lot of brands listed there, but many of them are of the same manufacturer. For example: Abarth, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, and Ram -- all one company. Honda/Acura, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan/Renault, etc.

tbolse 12y ago
Same for Volkswagen which owns amongst others: Audi, Bentley, Skoda and of course Volkswagen itself. But these "brands" at least partially have their own development departments. Audi for example operates quite independent in many regards.
- whistlecrackers 12y ago
  No mention of Lamborghini, though.

tbolse 12y ago

I still wonder about the role of CloudCar in regards to Google and to Android. At least the Startup is somehow connected to Andy Rubin [1], the original founder of Android. CloudCar also has some good engineers that know the automotive infotainment space quite well. "The startup may not be Rubin’s next place of employment, but he is connected to it: after the rumor hit, and then he denied it on Twitter, he further clarified in a Google+ post that CloudCar “are a group of friends who I give free office space to in my incubator in Los Altos.”" [1] [1] http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/22/cloudcar-the-stealthy-startup-that-andy-rubin-is-not-joining-has-raised-11-5m/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/22/cloudcar-the-stealthy-start...

outside1234 12y ago
CloudCar is part of the WebTV mafia. Bruce Lee and Andy Rubin both worked on WebTV and this is the connection. There are a very large number of WebTV alumni working in the Android team at Google as well. There are a number of WebTV folks at Nest Labs and this is another connection to Google (no matter how much the Nest Labs folks claim then aren't part of Google). So yes, CloudCar is well connected into Google.

SyncTheory13 12y ago

I think the automotive industry is finally catching on to all the new technology and new apps/utilities/data sources. Comparing a car in 2020 to a car in 2010 will be like comparing 1960 to 1995. I really hope OpenXC from Ford plays a big role in this initiative. http://openxcplatform.com/ http://openxcplatform.com/

maxerickson 12y ago
Isn't reasonable audio integration most of the win? There's lots of nice things to do around navigation, but they don't seem to matter a lot, especially if the audio integration is working well (because then just use the navigation on the phone).
- SyncTheory13 12y ago
  I'm looking for deeper-level driving analysis - like telling the driver they brake too hard... As well as connectivity to smartphones to use in place of proximity keys/alarms/remote start/etc. Some of this, we're already seeing, but I think there is a huge opportunity here.
  - bri3d 12y ago
    Automatic (YC, I think) do a good amount of that driving analysis, like telling the driver they brake or accelerate too hard, using only OBD-II and an accelerometer. I think a built-in system doing this kind of thing would be really cool. The technology is obviously already there, but the software isn't, so having an app platform creates a lot of opportunity. I wonder how deep Google will be able to convince manufacturers to take the integration - modern cars expose a ton of data and functionality over the CAN bus, but it's all undocumented and proprietary and is often obfuscated as well.
    - SyncTheory13 12y ago
      OpenXC supplies a lot of the groundwork for this, for use with Android: http://openxcplatform.com/about/data-set.html http://openxcplatform.com/about/data-set.html http://openxcplatform.com/projects/index.html http://openxcplatform.com/projects/index.html I think they also provide the interface for free for interested developers... Could be mistaken. Basically, the idea is to make it better documented and less proprietary... Then support a developer community for apps that can interface with the broader range of data than OBDII can provide.

kator 12y ago

Reaction to Tesla?

briandh 12y ago
Reaction to what about Tesla? This is promoting Google's Android-based IVI platform. In addition, the OAA was first announced in January.
eplanit 12y ago
Part of the motivation is in reaction to, and to compete with Genivi. That said, I think the OAA has broader goals than Genivi. Whether either organization accomplishes anything is to be seen. http://genivi.org/ http://genivi.org/
- briandh 12y ago
  I don't know much about GENIVI, but looking at the Wikipedia page, it turns out it has automakers involved that are also part of the OAA (Renault, Nissan, Hyundai, and GM, unless I'm skipping any). And there's overlap in the tech companies involved, too, of course.
mrpippy 12y ago
No, it's competition for/keeping pace with Apple CarPlay. CarPlay is an extremely "sticky" part of the iOS ecosystem: if someone uses CarPlay for navigation, music playback, etc and their car only supports CarPlay, that user can't realistically switch away from iOS (until they buy a new car) without giving up major features. But now that Android Auto is essentially the same thing, and should have pretty widespread availability, it takes away a reason for users to stay with iOS.

blocke 12y ago

Looks like the important thing here is now is that you don't have to care that Android runs on your dash computer. It's that the phone is using your cars built in display, touchpad, buttons, microphones and speakers as an attached display, speakers, and inputs to the phone. The actual apps run on your phone and so your car gets updates when the software on the phone gets updates. This mode is highly preferable to the end-user apps living in the dash computer as that will not get upgraded worth a damn over the life of the car no matter what. This is exactly what I'd want to see in this situation and I can't wait to get an aftermarket replacement to cover the gap until I need my next car.