4 ms·

It's frowned upon to take any time off in the US. I've seen it viewed as a sign of a lack of commitment or even laziness. Consequently, we take less time off

by cmollis 12y ago

It's frowned upon to take any time off in the US. I've seen it viewed as a sign of a lack of commitment or even laziness. Consequently, we take less time off because we're scared we're going to lose our jobs. No one is congratulated for taking time off in the middle of a project for your 'sanity' or 'to re-charge'. Everyone is scared. There is no safety net. It's no way to live, but it's our reality.

Someone1234 12y ago
> There is no safety net. That's a wonderfully succinct way of describing the US. It seems like in a lot of EU countries if you fail there is something to catch you (higher, longer, easier to get unemployment pay for one example), whereas there really is no lower limit on how low the US will let you fall (e.g. healthcare is a privilege not a right in the US). They do say that the US has some of the highest anti-depressant medication usage in the whole world (or was it more than the rest of the world combined? I can never remember). That isn't a surprise when literally your health, shelter, food, etc is all riding on keeping a job. Thank god for Obama care and the new ban on pre-existing condition limits (i.e. that you could not get insurance if you were sick before). It kept people enslaved into a single job if they ever got sick since they could never afford to lose that health insurance or they'd die.
- switch007 12y ago
  >It seems like in a lot of EU countries if you fail there is something to catch you (higher, longer, easier to get unemployment pay for one example) For the avoidance of doubt, that does not include England (these days). People with cancer in the final stages are declared fit to work
  - sitkack 12y ago
    I know right, perfect for uncontrolled cancer drug studies.
  - mike_hearn 12y ago
    Can you show me a link for that? I'd be interested in reading about it. What I've read is that a lot of people on disability benefits (higher than jobseekers allowance) were in fact just fine and when properly re-examined magically stopped being disabled. However, that assumes the review assessment was more reliable than the old one. I'd be interested in data showing whether it is or isn't.
    - walshemj 12y ago
      Well this goes back decades when in order to massage the unemployment figures GP's (family doctors) where encouraged to mark people as disabled to get the figures down. now the government has outsourced the test to a third party who get paid on the "savings" the produce so you get things like terminally ill people so yes the tests are now being fiddled
      - mike_hearn 12y ago
        Seems this story is relevant: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/atos-quietly-dropped-from-carrying-out-repeat-reassessments-by-dwp-internal-memo-shows-9151893.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/atos-quietly-d... The part about Atos wanting to pull out because of death threats against its staff is particularly nasty.
- anentropic 12y ago
  this is also why the USA is a lot more religious than other developed countries
  - nsxwolf 12y ago
    What? Because they don't have insurance?
- walshemj 12y ago
  don't down vote comments like this because you disagree with obamacare
- mattmcknight 12y ago
  "Thank god for Obama care and the new ban on pre-existing condition limits (i.e. that you could not get insurance if you were sick before). It kept people enslaved into a single job if they ever got sick since they could never afford to lose that health insurance or they'd die." That is not true. Those protections were provided in 1996 by HIPAA Title 1 [1]. If you had been covered for 18 months, you were no longer subject to pre-existing condition limits. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act#Title_I:_Health_Care_Access.2C_Portability.2C_and_Renewability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_an...
  - yequalsx 12y ago
    I believe you are incorrect. The law is targeting mostly people in group health plans. Think employer provided plans. So if a person loses their job and then gets a job without a group plan they may be out of luck. It also requires people in individual plans to not be dropped for health related reasons provided they maintain their coverage. Rates can be increased.
- whybroke 12y ago
  >It seems like in a lot of EU countries if you fail there is something to catch you While shrinking a bit, comparatively this very, very true. On the other hand, there could never be a city in post Dickensian Europe where immensely well paid beautiful people laughingly step their way daily through homeless people on their way to a nightly evening of cigars and whiskey while discussing how aggregating the aggregators is going to change the world. So there's that.
theklub 12y ago
All depends where you work and the culture there. Might be frowned upon in some places but where I work everyone is more than happy to see people take time off.
- shmerl 12y ago
  Agreed, not all environment are so negative. But even if attitude is positive, average vacation time in US is still way less than in Europe.
jgarcie 12y ago
This. It is very difficult to take time off at my job. We have one set of "PTO" days that include vacation and sick days (as an employee of 2 years I get 15 days per year). Most people do not take long blocks of time off, usually it's a day off here and there, maybe two. We also have a no work from home policy. I am a web developer. Literally, my entire job can be done from a couch, and it is even frowned upon to stay at home to work when I'm sick. We are allowed to do so, of course, but upper management treats you like Judas for the day.
- matwood 12y ago
  it is even frowned upon to stay at home to work when I'm sick. That's just stupid and lazy management. If people do not work when they are working at home then get rid of them. Period. For all the talk of people getting fired in the US, it seems to happen so rarely. As for coming in sick that is horrible. Both my current and last job wanted sick people to stay home so as to not get the rest of the office sick.
nsxwolf 12y ago
I wonder how many people in the US don't take their vacation days because they've read things like this and not because of their own experience. If you're afraid of taking vacation only because of what you've heard from the media, I suggest you try taking your vacation and see what happens. In all likelihood it will be a career non-event.
- bmj 12y ago
  I've talked to some other professionals about this, and for many of them, they readily admit that they feel like they need to be at work for their employer to function properly. They also admit this is their own impression, not something their boss has given them ("if you take that vacation, I don't know what we'll do without you"). I suggest you try taking your vacation and see what happens. In all likelihood it will be a career non-event I think this will probably be the case. I know it is for me (I take every last hour of PTO I am given every year, and have been known to request time off without pay, too), but I suspect there are some employers that truly do what they can to discourage holidays (constant arbitrary deadlines, for example).
  - vonmoltke 12y ago
    > I've talked to some other professionals about this, and for many of them, they readily admit that they feel like they need to be at work for their employer to function properly. They also admit this is their own impression, not something their boss has given them ("if you take that vacation, I don't know what we'll do without you"). I believe there is an ego component to this. Not only does it "look good" to upper management, it makes the individual feel like they are indispensable to the company. Only the unimportant people can afford to take vacations.
    - bmj 12y ago
      Yeah, agreed. And my friends who admit to thinking this way, also admit to the ego component (and that it is, perhaps, a problem).
- 01Michael10 12y ago
cryoshon 12y ago
Yep. It's dystopian. Our society is exploitative, and the people have been trained to see the exploitation as just. The bugger is that people are too terrified of losing their jobs (read: lives) to demand change.
noelherrick 12y ago
This is not true. I can prove that just by saying that myself, my co-workers, and my family (all Americans) are perfectly fine with taking time-off and we're not scared of losing our jobs. My manager encourages his team to take time-off. There is a safety net, it's just not as protective as European welfare. There are jobs that like salt mines, filled with workaholics and sadistic bosses, or so I'm given to understand, but I've never been in one. The worst company I've worked for that had very little regard for their employees gave good vacation time. I think a mistake we make when thinking about American policy is thinking there's an American policy. Each state has their own laws and every company is allowed to be different. This has its good parts and its bad parts. Startups seem to thrive in America but I've heard other people complain about the restrictive laws in their countries that make startups harder. Likewise, the American worker seems to work harder and longer than their developed peers.
hueving 12y ago
>It's frowned upon to take any time off in the US. I've seen it viewed as a sign of a lack of commitment or even laziness. Bullshit. I'm tired of seeing this same thing echoed. I think half of the reason this is even said is that someone reads this sentiment on something like HN and then becomes self-conscious about the vacations they are taking and starts to spout the same garbage. Everyone I know working in the tech sector takes at least one multi-week vacation every year and doesn't think twice about it. Perhaps Silicon Valley is not part of the US anymore?

by cmollis 12y ago

Someone1234 12y ago

> There is no safety net. That's a wonderfully succinct way of describing the US. It seems like in a lot of EU countries if you fail there is something to catch you (higher, longer, easier to get unemployment pay for one example), whereas there really is no lower limit on how low the US will let you fall (e.g. healthcare is a privilege not a right in the US). They do say that the US has some of the highest anti-depressant medication usage in the whole world (or was it more than the rest of the world combined? I can never remember). That isn't a surprise when literally your health, shelter, food, etc is all riding on keeping a job. Thank god for Obama care and the new ban on pre-existing condition limits (i.e. that you could not get insurance if you were sick before). It kept people enslaved into a single job if they ever got sick since they could never afford to lose that health insurance or they'd die.

switch007 12y ago
>It seems like in a lot of EU countries if you fail there is something to catch you (higher, longer, easier to get unemployment pay for one example) For the avoidance of doubt, that does not include England (these days). People with cancer in the final stages are declared fit to work
- sitkack 12y ago
  I know right, perfect for uncontrolled cancer drug studies.
- mike_hearn 12y ago
  Can you show me a link for that? I'd be interested in reading about it. What I've read is that a lot of people on disability benefits (higher than jobseekers allowance) were in fact just fine and when properly re-examined magically stopped being disabled. However, that assumes the review assessment was more reliable than the old one. I'd be interested in data showing whether it is or isn't.
  - walshemj 12y ago
    Well this goes back decades when in order to massage the unemployment figures GP's (family doctors) where encouraged to mark people as disabled to get the figures down. now the government has outsourced the test to a third party who get paid on the "savings" the produce so you get things like terminally ill people so yes the tests are now being fiddled
    - mike_hearn 12y ago
      Seems this story is relevant: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/atos-quietly-dropped-from-carrying-out-repeat-reassessments-by-dwp-internal-memo-shows-9151893.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/atos-quietly-d... The part about Atos wanting to pull out because of death threats against its staff is particularly nasty.
anentropic 12y ago
this is also why the USA is a lot more religious than other developed countries
- nsxwolf 12y ago
  What? Because they don't have insurance?
walshemj 12y ago
don't down vote comments like this because you disagree with obamacare
mattmcknight 12y ago
"Thank god for Obama care and the new ban on pre-existing condition limits (i.e. that you could not get insurance if you were sick before). It kept people enslaved into a single job if they ever got sick since they could never afford to lose that health insurance or they'd die." That is not true. Those protections were provided in 1996 by HIPAA Title 1 [1]. If you had been covered for 18 months, you were no longer subject to pre-existing condition limits. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act#Title_I:_Health_Care_Access.2C_Portability.2C_and_Renewability http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_an...
- yequalsx 12y ago
  I believe you are incorrect. The law is targeting mostly people in group health plans. Think employer provided plans. So if a person loses their job and then gets a job without a group plan they may be out of luck. It also requires people in individual plans to not be dropped for health related reasons provided they maintain their coverage. Rates can be increased.
whybroke 12y ago
>It seems like in a lot of EU countries if you fail there is something to catch you While shrinking a bit, comparatively this very, very true. On the other hand, there could never be a city in post Dickensian Europe where immensely well paid beautiful people laughingly step their way daily through homeless people on their way to a nightly evening of cigars and whiskey while discussing how aggregating the aggregators is going to change the world. So there's that.

theklub 12y ago

All depends where you work and the culture there. Might be frowned upon in some places but where I work everyone is more than happy to see people take time off.

shmerl 12y ago
Agreed, not all environment are so negative. But even if attitude is positive, average vacation time in US is still way less than in Europe.

jgarcie 12y ago

This. It is very difficult to take time off at my job. We have one set of "PTO" days that include vacation and sick days (as an employee of 2 years I get 15 days per year). Most people do not take long blocks of time off, usually it's a day off here and there, maybe two. We also have a no work from home policy. I am a web developer. Literally, my entire job can be done from a couch, and it is even frowned upon to stay at home to work when I'm sick. We are allowed to do so, of course, but upper management treats you like Judas for the day.

matwood 12y ago
it is even frowned upon to stay at home to work when I'm sick. That's just stupid and lazy management. If people do not work when they are working at home then get rid of them. Period. For all the talk of people getting fired in the US, it seems to happen so rarely. As for coming in sick that is horrible. Both my current and last job wanted sick people to stay home so as to not get the rest of the office sick.

nsxwolf 12y ago

I wonder how many people in the US don't take their vacation days because they've read things like this and not because of their own experience. If you're afraid of taking vacation only because of what you've heard from the media, I suggest you try taking your vacation and see what happens. In all likelihood it will be a career non-event.

bmj 12y ago
I've talked to some other professionals about this, and for many of them, they readily admit that they feel like they need to be at work for their employer to function properly. They also admit this is their own impression, not something their boss has given them ("if you take that vacation, I don't know what we'll do without you"). I suggest you try taking your vacation and see what happens. In all likelihood it will be a career non-event I think this will probably be the case. I know it is for me (I take every last hour of PTO I am given every year, and have been known to request time off without pay, too), but I suspect there are some employers that truly do what they can to discourage holidays (constant arbitrary deadlines, for example).
- vonmoltke 12y ago
  > I've talked to some other professionals about this, and for many of them, they readily admit that they feel like they need to be at work for their employer to function properly. They also admit this is their own impression, not something their boss has given them ("if you take that vacation, I don't know what we'll do without you"). I believe there is an ego component to this. Not only does it "look good" to upper management, it makes the individual feel like they are indispensable to the company. Only the unimportant people can afford to take vacations.
  - bmj 12y ago
    Yeah, agreed. And my friends who admit to thinking this way, also admit to the ego component (and that it is, perhaps, a problem).
01Michael10 12y ago

cryoshon 12y ago

Yep. It's dystopian. Our society is exploitative, and the people have been trained to see the exploitation as just. The bugger is that people are too terrified of losing their jobs (read: lives) to demand change.

noelherrick 12y ago

This is not true. I can prove that just by saying that myself, my co-workers, and my family (all Americans) are perfectly fine with taking time-off and we're not scared of losing our jobs. My manager encourages his team to take time-off. There is a safety net, it's just not as protective as European welfare. There are jobs that like salt mines, filled with workaholics and sadistic bosses, or so I'm given to understand, but I've never been in one. The worst company I've worked for that had very little regard for their employees gave good vacation time. I think a mistake we make when thinking about American policy is thinking there's an American policy. Each state has their own laws and every company is allowed to be different. This has its good parts and its bad parts. Startups seem to thrive in America but I've heard other people complain about the restrictive laws in their countries that make startups harder. Likewise, the American worker seems to work harder and longer than their developed peers.

hueving 12y ago

>It's frowned upon to take any time off in the US. I've seen it viewed as a sign of a lack of commitment or even laziness. Bullshit. I'm tired of seeing this same thing echoed. I think half of the reason this is even said is that someone reads this sentiment on something like HN and then becomes self-conscious about the vacations they are taking and starts to spout the same garbage. Everyone I know working in the tech sector takes at least one multi-week vacation every year and doesn't think twice about it. Perhaps Silicon Valley is not part of the US anymore?