10 ms·
The Joy of Typing
- zatkin 12y agoI think I have found the absolute worst typing test[1] on the Internet thanks to this article. It keeps a timer running until you "hit tab and click stop". You're telling me that I need to stop tying, move my hand over to my mouse, dragm the mouse button to that "stop" button and click the button? That'll lose me typing time... [1]: http://www.calculatorcat.com/typing_test/ http://www.calculatorcat.com/typing_test/
- infogulch 12y agoYou misread. It says "hit tab OR click stop". So just hitting tab out of the text entry box stops the timer.
- sramsay 12y ago60 wpm? The monks who taught us to type in Catholic school would have beat us for having that kind of sorry-ass typing speed.
- dmd 12y agoThis is definite check-your-privilege/assumptions territory for me. Reading the headline alone, I assumed this was going to be some sort of "you should slow down, zen out, and think more clearly, by not typing so fast" post. The idea of 60 wpm as being fast took me a while to grasp.
- incision 12y agoI can certainly type sixty words a minute, but when it comes to retention there's no comparison between typing and handwriting for me and I don't find myself transcribing. I have a notion that the permanence and chunkiness of writing keeps thoughts 'whole' whereas the ease of backspacing allows the same words to become abstracted. I'll have to try typing with backspace mapped to newline or something to see how the idea plays out.
- nbouscal 12y ago> one 2007 study measured a small group of 21 college students and found their average typing speed was an abysmal 12.2 words per minute That blows my mind. That's less than a tenth the speed I type at. How do they get anything done??
- mikestew 12y agoI can type that fast on a phone. I'll assume for the sake of discussion that this number is accurate across a general population. If you sit at a keyboard long enough, how can you not get faster than 12.2 wpm? So much for "kids growing up with computers". All that time in front of a keyboard since kindergarten, and you're output is still restricted by your abysmal typing speed? OTOH, do typing classes even exist anymore, are are we to assume that kids will just learn it by osmosis? When I was in high school I took typing class. On a real typewriter. And it was a manual typewriter...that we could only use in a blinding snow storm while walking uphill. Anyway, I type around 100 wpm now which I attribute to that typing class. Had I just been left to my own devices to hunt-and-peck my way around, I doubt I'd be anywhere near that speed.
- nerfhammer 12y agoI think I could only do like 30WPM until I sat down and trained myself to actually type correctly and promptly could type 2-3x that http://www.gnu.org/software/gtypist/ http://www.gnu.org/software/gtypist/
- sj4nz 12y agoWe all can probably stand to use more remedial training at typing, even if we think that we're already pretty fast. Every once in a while I'll dust off [GNU Typist][0] and bash it at for ten-minutes. Unfortunately, its been nearly impossible to change kinetic memory for alternative layouts like [Workman][1], there hasn't been enough time to unlearn and learn it without suffering a huge productivity hit. [0]: https://www.gnu.org/software/gtypist/ https://www.gnu.org/software/gtypist/ [1]: http://www.workmanlayout.com/blog/ http://www.workmanlayout.com/blog/
- larrys 12y ago
- danso 12y agoI like that the OP references the NYT piece on how handwriting had cognitive benefits...I guess I didn't read that NYT piece as presenting a dichotomy, only asserting that handwriting had its own cognitive benefits independent of how fast you could produce content. In fact, when I'm stuck in a problem-solving bind, I'll sometimes sketch charts/tables on paper, even though I almost always immediately throw the paper away. That said, I wholly agree with the OP that speed in production unlocks its own benefits. Working with novice coders, I've become acutely sensitive to how much lack of keyboard-shortcutting can hamper a novice's ability to understand code, especially across a project. The 5 to 10 seconds it takes for them to hunt-and-click for a file among Sublime Text tabs is enough for them to forget what bug they were trying to fix in the first place. If I had to run a learn-to-code bootcamp...I think the first thing I would do is to remove the lab computers' default mouse input and replace them with the 80s-era steel-ball mice until students realized that using a mouse should be the edge case.
- kstenerud 12y ago"I think the first thing I would do is to remove the lab computers' default mouse input and replace them with the 80s-era steel-ball mice until students realized that using a mouse should be the edge case." I'd fire you immediately if you did that. The mouse is not an edge case.
- taeric 12y ago60 words a minute is still very slow, when it comes to thinking speed. Unless I'm just off my rocker, of course. This is also why folks that take really good notes by hand often have some sort of shorthand system. My question, then, is it worthwhile to investigate some of the more advanced typing techniques out there? I'm curious, but highly skeptical.
- taternuts 12y agoI have to agree, 60 WPM is pretty slow. Even at 130 WPM I still struggle to keep up with my thoughts sometimes. I don't use any special technique/layout because I find 130 to be pretty proficient, but I'm sure using dvorak or some other odd layout would improve speed after the initial learning curve.
- infogulch 12y agoI have the opposite problem. I hover around 60 WPM when transcribing or copying, but I often pause mid-sentence or mid-paragraph to gather my thoughts for what to say next (probably more like how to word it correctly) when writing original content. Maybe it's a lack of discipline or practice and I'd be able to form thoughts more quickly if I were required to, or maybe I can form thoughts quickly but my typing doesn't keep up and I lose track. That said, I do the stop-to-gather-thoughts thing when I speak as well so maybe I'm hopeless.
- taeric 12y agoSo, for me it is that I can not really decide "what to say next" until I have gotten "what I'm saying now" out of my head and onto the screen. That is, if I can keep an even pace where I'm typing at roughly the speed I'm saying what I want to type, then I don't do this stutter that often. However, if I am constantly getting adrift in how fast I'm typing versus how far ahead I've thought of what to say, then I stutter like crazy. I'm assuming it has a lot to do with how you "speak" in your head. Some people (myself) do so verbally. Some do so visually.
- nbouscal 12y ago
- acd 12y agoDid you know that you can type the word "typewriter" on top row of your QWERTY keyboard? It was part of sales demonstrations.
- oldbuzzard 12y agoPerhaps Steve Yegge's post is germane, http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirtiest-little-secret.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirties... I'm not sold on typing per se, but mastering an appropriate output method for your domain seems key. For programming, that is typing. For math, it could be either manuscript or TeX. For the humanities it could be either manuscript or typing. Typing always removes a transcription step, but that is unlikely to be the limiting factor for any deep knowledge work. As a homeschool dad, I think it is important to get kids to a relative level of proficiency as quickly as possible. Difficulty writing or typing or whatever certainly limits output. Different kids will prefer different options and thats fine. PS. Even if typing is faster, writing allows more free form expression(maps/diagrams/etc) and that may mitigate the speed issue.
- mikestew 12y ago"because you’re no longer struggling with the tool at hand." I saw this coming somewhere around the first paragraph. Those students who are trying to transcribe lectures and not actually learning anything? My guess is it's because they're burning cycles mentally saying "'the', I need to find 't' and an 'h', aaaaaand 'e'. 'quick', where the hell is 'q'?" As a parallel, take Jimmy Page (Led Zeppelin) as a guitar player. Sure, his playing was sloppy as hell when playing live. But the man knew the fret board. He knew all of the places any note could be played, he knew which boxes will allow the riff he wants to play (in fact, I doubt he thought "which box?" but rather "here's where I need to be"), the man was comfortable with his tool and the guitar has the appearance of being an extension of his hand when he plays. He never looks like he's mentally saying "okay, I need an A# next, which is...". This allows him to move on from rote mechanics to making incredible music. Typing is the same IMO. If you struggle with typing, the first thing you're likely to do is reach for the mouse for anything other than text entry. Which means you reeaach over to the mouse, then mooooove the mouse, click, and...what was it you were doing again? Then when text entry time comes it comes out as "M...y...C...l...a...s...s... ...*...f...o...o". The tool is taking up mental cycles when it should be more of an extension of your thoughts. It's been argued on HN and elsewhere that typing speed has little bearing on productivity for programming since one spends more time thinking than typing. My counter to that is that the two probably intersect more often than you think they do, and when they do you don't want to be burning cycles figuring out which finger to use to reach the "w" key.
- kbenson 12y ago> the two probably intersect more often than you think they do One of the reasons I like more terse, concise languages is because it allows me to get the idea represented quicker, so I spend more time thinking about the problem and solution and less time transcribing the solution. There is,of course, a downside in legibility, but I believe that's mostly mitigated for people familiar enough with the language.
- jimmaswell 12y agoYou can have the best of both world with an IDE with good autocomplete where you only have to type a few characters and hit tab most of the time, resulting in less time typing and improved legibility.
- z2 12y agoBack in college, I dictated the bulk of my (humanities) papers using Windows Vista’s built-in speech recognition. It unlocked a new paradigm of revising where I could speak an entire paragraph, delete it without hesitation, and re-write, all in a minute’s time. Including pauses and corrections, I probably got less than 100 WPM. That alone isn't impressive, but it came with minimal fatigue and friction. It was very liberating to edit my logic and reasoning at a multi-sentence level.
- hackuser 12y agoCould you explain what you mean? Maybe speech recognition has features I don't understand. Decent text editors can delete and move sentences and paragraphs almost instantly. How is speech recognition different?
- z2 12y agoSure, deleting is fast, but I meant that typing something back isn't. Speaking makes it faster and easier to start over with multiple sentences until one works. Maybe it's just laziness -- when typing, I am more hesitant to redo entire paragraphs. When typing, I also feel more caught up in the details and words inside my sentences. (Though that may not be a bad thing!)
- worrieddot 12y agoThis is especially interesting to me. I've been relearning how to type on an Alphagrip and for much of the process (20-50wpm) I have felt like it was dumbing me down because my thoughts all have to wait for me to slowly output them. Now that I'm past 50wpm on alpha text the effect isn't as bad, but I still feel hindered. (But.... that's worth it for not exacerbating carpal tunnel issues, right?)
- worrieddot 12y agoBtw, I would recommend this (learning a new keyboard layout) as a refreshing exercise for anyone who has forgotten what the learning process feels like. I imagine trying to read a book in another language is similar.
- viseztrance 12y agoUnless you're a professional typist, 40 wpm as an average speed is definitely OK. Realistically there are few people that average over 120 wpm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute). As far as schools go, I hope they stick to using pens, as I don't know anyone who got RSI after using one.
- gknoy 12y ago"""One of the reasons we formally teach handwriting to young children is that you don’t want a bottleneck between the ideas they’re forming and the writing. """ Talking with my son's teachers and pediatricians, one big reason that early classes emphasize writing is not just about literacy, but rather about developing hand muscles.
- oldbuzzard 12y agohttp://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirtiest-little-secret.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirties... I could figure out how to post this w/o it showing up as a dupe but I just don't care enough.
- hmsimha 12y agoThis is why the quality of text messaging is notoriously abysmal.
- userbinator 12y agoI think there's also much to be said about the "standard" way of teaching typing, which I find to be excessively constraining and inefficient [1]. Instead of forcing a strict "one key, one finger" correspondence, it's better to teach where the keys are, and to encourage the use of as many fingers as possible. It's also not explicitly taught, but the skill of breaking up sequences of letters so that you're typing complete words and common pieces of words (e.g. "ing") is also very important. Fast, fluent typing comes from being able to quickly know which keys to hit for a given word - which finger exactly to use matters only tangentially. I've seen people type 100+ wpm with only 2 fingers on each hand, but they know which keys to hit, and know where the next key they need to hit is. [1] http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/standard-qwerty-finger-placement/ http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/standard-qwerty-finger-placem...
- kumarishan 12y agoI think those kids wrote longer and better essays also because when typing you know you can edit, insert or remove whatever part whenever you want. This I believe also makes the person less thoughtful about what he writes for the first time. Contrary to writing, when you need to visualize the whole essay first and then start writing. Which is much more difficult. So the result, ie typing gave better result can also be because of the flexibility to modify any part of the content. What if no edits were alloyed while typing ? does that change the outcome ? While writing essays or quick replies, typing can be better both because of its transcription fluency and flexibility in editing (iterative style of writing). But in note taking, one needs another kind of flexibility. Like ability to change the handwriting or write in any direction anywhere. How many times we write illegible words, just to getaway with it and focus on the knowledge while in classroom. Also while pondering on an idea, we need this flexibility. We don't get this in typing. Only if we could scribble while typing (something to solve) .... Writing is certainly loosing its territory to typing. Emails replaced letters, editing softwares, etc. But IMO once touch screen computers and tablet takes over. We might see people preferring stylus pens and resort back to writing. But Graphite is still going to loose.. :)
- donniezazen 12y agoSeems like GNU Typist is quite popular in this thread. I was wondering how do you learn to use right fingers for right buttons. I could use GNU Typist but I might just be practicing with wrongs fingers.
- insertnickname 12y agoNext up: The Joy of RSI
- jbranchaud 12y agoI was really hoping this would be about type systems.
- freshmeat 12y agoI cleaned my keyboard and ended up swapping two keys because of their proximity to the keyboard when I reset their positions. A co-worker mistyped one of the keys, then backspaced, then typed it again and on several other places on the same line before stopping, looking confused, then staring at the keyboard asking "You swapped your keys?" "You look at the keyboard when you type?"
- ommunist 12y agoIt is not my university education that makes my living. Its touch-typing skill.
- AdamFort 12y agoGreat content. It's a pity that author didn't mention that average typing speed for adults - 41 wpm according to infographic at http://www.ratatype.com/learn/average-typing-speed/ http://www.ratatype.com/learn/average-typing-speed/