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Having tried the Oculus Rift, the potential to experience this would be incredible. Although there's nothing quite like just sitting on a worn stone bench alone
by Locke1689 12y ago
Having tried the Oculus Rift, the potential to experience this would be incredible. Although there's nothing quite like just sitting on a worn stone bench alone in a cathedral, just the chill air around you.
It often makes me wish for a non-religious religion -- just a refuge of tranquility.
- soperj 12y agoI've gotten that feeling at the San Fran Aquarium. There are some benches where big fish can swim over head. Unbelievably peaceful and cool when there aren't a ton of kids running around(ie: get there early)
- jacquesm 12y agoMankind has made the most incredible art inspired by religion. Along the same lines, Bach's Chorales and in fact quite a bit of his other work. Try this, if you feel like some really nice classical music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC3Upv8DuRQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC3Upv8DuRQ
- lostlogin 12y agoYou're quite right, but there is something strangely amusing to me about the idea of art inspired by religion in a thread about the Sistine chapel. It's almost more like science trumping religion. There are quite a few theories on just what some images are of - sections of brain, cross section of a penis, brain stem, eye, shoulder etc.
- jacquesm 12y agoIn this case I should have probably used 'funded', but in those days not having a religion was not really an option. Michelangelo was at continuous odds with his employers during his lifetime, he dissected corpses illegally at first, later with tacit approval of some of the church bigwigs in order to improve his skills as an artist. It was a continuous give-and-take to see who got the most out of the arrangement. In the end I think we, the future dwellers able to see his work no matter what caused them to come into being are the real winners. Not bad for a man who declared himself unfit to execute the work because he was a sculptor, not a painter... There is a very good book about him that I forgot the title of (I read it ages ago).
- hamstu 12y agoYou may be referring to Michelangelo and the Pope's Ceiling by Ross King. Fantastic read for the interested. http://www.amazon.com/Michelangelo-Popes-Ceiling-Ross-King/dp/0142003697 http://www.amazon.com/Michelangelo-Popes-Ceiling-Ross-King/d...
- hrjet 12y ago> "declared himself unfit as a painter" ? Wasn't it more like "declared painting as unfit for him"? Michelangelo had a strong disdain for paintings and painters especially Leonardo Da Vinci and his friends. My only source is [this biography](1). Not sure how accurate that is. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/The-Agony-Ecstasy-Biographical-Michelangelo/dp/0451171357 http://www.amazon.com/The-Agony-Ecstasy-Biographical-Michela...
- jacquesm 12y agoI did not write that he declared himself unfit as a painter, I wrote that he did not consider himself to be a painter. Michelangelo's first love was marble, not paint.
- tinker_27 12y agoThe Agony and the Ecstasy, by Irving Stone, perhaps? Its the first thing that came to mind when I saw this. Irving Stone's Lust for Life, about Vincent Van Gogh, is pretty good as well.
- jacquesm 12y agoGiven the timing that is most likely the one but I wouldn't know for sure without reading a few pages. Thanks for the hint. I've long ago lost pretty much all my books so it's hard for me to be sure about what I read where and when. Much appreciated.
- pcrh 12y agoMost likely those interpretations of Michelangelo's frescoes as brain stem, etc are a case of pareidolia. In the case of the "brain cross-section" (where God touches Adam) There is no reason why Michelangelo should choose what is now a standard representation of the brain in a sagittal cross-section over any other cross-section; in fact the image doesn't look very much like a real brain in cross-section, but is closer to the stylized one that appears in modern text-books (which Michelangelo would obviously not have been aware of).
- lostlogin 12y agoA midline section is the obvious one. And there are images by him in the chapel that have similarity to coronals too. Of all the images that look like anatomy the most famous one of the brain is the least obvious one in my opinion. Although that said, it isn't too much of a stretch to see it. I wouldn't really call it that stylised so much as obscured, presumably to prevent the bill payer moaning. Out of curiosity, when do you call text book image stylised? MR and CT images are basically the same as textbooks but without the colour. Many texts actually use the MR image as their image as they are so very good (sinus area possibly excluded).
- pcrh 12y agoMR images, etc, are very modern. The choice of image to be displayed in a text book is not based only on what one would see if one had a brain to dissect at hand; dissection procedures, and the sections that result, are determined by precedence. The "standard" sagittal section as in this image (i.imgur.com/ZTvy55n.jpg), or this image (i.imgur.com/73YdDXa.jpg) is chosen precisely because it shows in one image several important features of the brain, and is also recapitulated nicely by MRI images, as you mention. However, there is no reason why Michelangelo would know anything about the different regions of the brain and therefore choose a representation that showed them. A "fresh" human brain (which is what Michelangelo would have seen) looks like this (i.imgur.com/KXBLtrx.jpg), or this (i.imgur.com/Bm5l8n6.jpg), and without further dissection do not look much like his paintings. Such brains can be further sectioned in any number of ways, none of which are necessarily obvious. The question then is would Michelangelo have dissected brains in the same way as is now done?
- ronaldx 12y agoIt's hard to say that the Sistine Chapel was inspired by religion - it was paid for by religion, yes.
- jacquesm 12y agoSee sister comment.
- Natsu 12y agoWhat do you mean by 'inspired' here? When looking at the chapel I see a large number of religious figures and imagery, so it seems odd to say that art depicting religious subjects, in a religious setting, sponsored by a religious patron was not inspired by Christianity.
- laureny 12y agoIt was ordered and paid for by the catholic church, of course it's going to represent concepts of the catholic creed. If NASA ordered their rockets to be painted with science based themes, you could hardly call such paintings "inspired by science". "Inspired" implies that the artist woke up with an idea and painted it.
- jacquesm 12y agoMichelangelo was mostly told to 'paint the ceiling', what he painted was of his own devising. For sure he would probably not have been paid if he painted a forest scene but there is some evidence in his own hand that his inspiration was mostly scripture (the OT). I'm pretty sure the reigning pope approved of the design, both from an execution perspective as from the content itself. But if he had done the job according to the normal way of decorating ceilings in that day we likely would not be having this discussion. It really is a masterpiece.
- Natsu 12y agoWhy not? They would be the genesis of the idea, after all. It just seems bizarre to me to say that religion did not urge him to do this, which is the usual meaning of 'inspire.'
- walden42 12y agoBeautiful piece, thanks for sharing.
- jacquesm 12y agoYou're welcome. Lipatti was an amazing pianist, definitely someone worth spending some time on. You won't be disappointed. Good starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcdHbSZE9J4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcdHbSZE9J4
- dredmorbius 12y agoDon't make that attribution error of associating the patron with the artist. Yes, religion was the primary patron of visual, sculptural, and musical arts for much of the period from the Renaissance to the Enlightenment. But it wasn't the only. And you'll find beautiful works among the secularist of the Classical and Romantic periods, say, the Pre-Raphaelites. Of whom neither the artists, models, nor subject are generally highly religious in nature.
- wyager 12y agoI'm disappointed that you are in the negative points. Your comment was insightful and interesting, and I know more after reading it than I did before.
- dredmorbius 12y agoDoesn't much bother me either way, but my comment seems to have been rescued from negative territory by a significant margin.
- cgore 12y agoBach was deeply religious, and not just because of some lap-dog sense of "that's who's paying the bills." He signed most of his works as "SDG", short for "Soli Deo Gloria", which roughly translates as "to God alone belongs all glory. His meaning being that any ability Bach thought he had was solely just God showing off: Bach made beautiful music, but God made Bach, and he knew it.
- pavanred 12y agoI don't think you can attribute most incredible art to be inspired by religion, considering that during those times, art (sometimes just ideas) that lacked religious conformity were dealt with severity. Perhaps the reason there is so much art that is inspired by religion because not much else survived. This brings a famous bit by George Carlin (I think) to my mind - ...It start's when we are kids, we are told to be creative and to colour within the lines... (paraphrased)
- jacquesm 12y agoIt's definitely possible to be a 'fan' of Carlin, Bach and Michelangelo at the same time without any hint of cognitive dissonance.
- darasen 12y agoLet us not forget that this concept doesn't just apply to Christianity, or religion in general, though. Monet struggled with the Académie des Beaux-Arts fot painting the way they thought people should paint. There is a long history of Ballet dancers in the USSR who struggled because they good communists. Today character assassination is the norm for for so many people (especially in the arts) who don't strictly adhere to progressive politics. I attended an art school for time where I was frequently shunned for dressing well, (apparently you can't be an "artist" if you wear slacks and dress shirts,) and adhering to Christian principles. Look at the movie Moms' night out. Highly panned by critics because because the characters are not "feminist" enough. Yet highly rated by the audience.
- sofal 12y agoYour theory that the Mom's Night Out movie was panned only because critics thought it wasn't "feminist" enough can just as easily be turned around to say that the Christian audiences praised it only because the movie panders to them. All the praising user reviews I've read come from a very politically motivated and reactionary viewpoint.
- disputin 12y agoDo you think Bach would have been a rubbish musician if he was an atheist? I suspect religion was just one of many possible muses.
- walden42 12y ago> It often makes me wish for a non-religious religion -- just a refuge of tranquility. Have you looked into Buddhism yet? Because that's exactly one of the ways I'd describe it--a non-religion whose focus is on tranquility. If you haven't looked into yet, this is a great easy-to-read book to start with: http://www.amazon.com/Peace-Every-Step-Mindfulness-Everyday/dp/0553351397/ref=sr_1_1_ha?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1401487771&sr=1-1&keywords=peace+is+every+step http://www.amazon.com/Peace-Every-Step-Mindfulness-Everyday/...
- sitkack 12y agoOr something you can attend, http://afsc.org/ http://afsc.org/ with people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers are the closest thing we have to Buddhism in the Americas.
- neltnerb 12y ago... except for you know, Buddhism. Which has a center in certainly every major US city.
- zo1 12y agoInteresting quote from that page: "Today, around 89% of Friends worldwide practice programmed worship[6]—that is, worship with singing and a prepared message from the Bible, often coordinated by a pastor." Note the usage of the phrase "programmed worship". Bit of an unintended pun there.
- Lucadg 12y agoa non-religious religion is what I dream about too! After many years despising religion (I am Italian, I know what Rome actually means) I traveled the world and learned that religion actually serves some high purposes. I really miss being religious, so if you build a non-religious one, count me in! sounds almost like a good start-up idea :)
- carljoseph 12y agoThe Sunday Assembly [0] might be of interest. I've only read of it recently but it's an interesting idea. Church for the atheists. [0] http://sundayassembly.com/ http://sundayassembly.com/
- MisterBastahrd 12y agoI had a thought about a similar concept. Imagine a place where you could get an inspiring message and self-help among others who have experience to share, along with community support for secular activities... kids could go to class to help prepare them for the adult world, learning about essential things like personal finance that are pretty much non-existent in the current public school curriculum.
- digitalengineer 12y ago"Science saved my soul" is a nice non-religious experience. Makes you feel humble and all-powerful at once: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago> It often makes me wish for a non-religious religion -- just a refuge of tranquility. Like Buddhism? Try chilling in a Tibetan high altitude monastery someday.
- ekianjo 12y agoWe always love the hipsters comments on HN. Yeah, we get it's cool to be Buddhist in the US, it does not mean that opinion is shared universally across the world. You can feel tranquil and at peace with yourself in non-Buddhist areas too.
- seanmcdirmid 12y agoI'm not Buddhist and I don't live in the states. But I do have a thing for Tibetan monasteries in the highlands of western china.
- gabordemooij 12y ago> It often makes me wish for a non-religious religion -- just a refuge of tranquility. How about belief in logic? Like the Vulcans ;)
- drjesusphd 12y agoI agree, I've thought about this often. I find old universities provide something close. If it weren't for all the damn students...
- return0 12y agoYou'd have to be actually working in the Vatican and have exclusive access to the chapel to do that.