10 ms·

Leo The Homeless Coder Is Still Homeless

150 points by talhof8 12y ago

sbahra 12y ago
"Give a man to fish."
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  You know how it goes. Give a man to fish, and today is eating; teach him a fish, and he forevers.
namenotrequired 12y ago
> Patrick McConlogue, for all intents and purposes, did not "solve homelessness." No, but he solved what Leo saw as the worst problem of the homeless man by being his friend. He's happy now.
ufmace 12y ago
I'm really glad they did a follow-up on this. Seems much more insightful than just throwing an idea like "Let's teach them to code!" out there, trying it for 10 minutes, and then moving on to the next story. This does a much better job of illustrating how complex the issue is, and how just throwing money at it may not help much.
russelluresti 12y ago
It's very strange how people approach this story. The entire mentality of "He's still homeless so obviously this was a waste of time." is dumb. Yes, there are multiple issues that need to be dealt with when you talk about re-integrating someone into society, but one of the biggest issues (perhaps second after any mental/emotional trauma) is the ability to earn money. Leo has been taught a skill that has earned him money, and one where he can continue to develop this skill and make more money.
squigs25 12y ago
This really shows how much humans are creatures of habit.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- mcherm 12y ago
  There is something seriously wrong with your analogy.
  - JetSpiegel 12y ago
    Indeed, people can live with no money...
- vstm 12y ago
  But the problem here is not that he does not have money - the $ 10k belong to him. It's just that he needs to open up a bank-account to access that money. The potential for sex (your analogy)/money is there but the conditions to "release it" aren't met. Or to use your analogy: he has someone willing to have sex with him, but that person doesn't want to do it on the street - this person just wants to have sex in a proper bed.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- Cthulhu_ 12y ago
  Or just have him withdraw and hand over cash every once in a while. But to be honest, I know nothing about this Leo guy; for all I know he knows he'll just spend the money on drugs and he's keeping himself away from that temptation on purpose.
  - orkoden 12y ago
    It's his money so he can spend it on drugs if he chooses to.
    - leishulang 12y ago
      he choose to spend it by not spending.
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      But if he chooses not to keep it on hand, to prevent himself from spending it on drugs, he can choose that too.
    - zo1 12y ago
      Sure is. But he's choosing not to withdraw it from the other guy's account. No one is keeping it from him.
    - seriously_guys 12y ago
      Nobody said otherwise.
  - S4M 12y ago
    I don't think it's a good idea for a homeless guy to be caring 10k in cash.
- andrew_gardener 12y ago
  The reasons he hasn't been paid is because Leo doesn't want to open a bank account and they both agree that cashing out is a bad idea. Its important to know that having a lot of cash on hand can be dangerous for anyone and even more so for the homeless. There are ways around it and receiving smaller sums over time might solve the problem but its really up to what Leo's comfortable with.
martinald 12y ago
Pretty appalling in my eyes setting him an ultimatum. I would imagine Patrick would have the lawyers out if someone gave him an ultimatum that he would struggle to meet like that. Homelessness is an intensely difficult problem to solve and won't be solved overnight by giving people a laptop and some books.
- andrew_gardener 12y ago
  Its my sincere hope that it is a "soft" ultimatum. That is, if the deadline is reached, that Patrick will just extend it with another deadline. I think Patrick is just trying to apply some pressure to help Leo take the money in one form or another (now if that's a good idea or not...) Of course I have no idea what Patrick will do if it comes down to the deadline but I truly hope he's not going to force some sort of resolution.
danso 12y ago
> Patrick McConlogue, for all intents and purposes, did not "solve homelessness." The result seems to echo the statements made by the project's biggest critics — not everyone wants to be saved. Fixing homelessness is a lot more complicated than everyone thinks. If you try to help a homeless person, then you must also end all homelessness or accept that you're just a naive failure, apparently.
- glesica 12y ago
  If you try to help a homeless person, then you must also end all homelessness or accept that you're just a naive failure, apparently. Not at all. But when you (to some extent) and others (to a much, much greater extent) hold up a project or strategy as being a solution to a problem, it is important for the outcome to be publicized, whether that outcome is success or failure (or some of both). This situation got a lot of attention when it started, so it needs just as much, if not more, attention now that it has (more or less) concluded. I recall there being a lot of implicit, and some explicit, suggestions that this sort of thing could "scale". Turns out it can't. That's an important piece of knowledge to have for the future. Edit: formatting
  - eloisant 12y ago
    Indeed, the experiment is very skewed because he only managed to make 10 grand because he was homeless and the whole story got publicized. His app is fairly common, and without the "media story" around it he would probably have made a bit more than $20 over the same span of time. Just like most app developers.
- pessimizer 12y ago
  Maybe black or homeless people only exist as symbols, and not people. This can't be about Patrick helping Leo, but has to be about society helping the abandoned. I'm usually really critical about the tone-deafness when it comes to tech people and poverty, but I'm not sure what there is to criticize about a friendship between two people that has been so obviously mutually beneficial. Instead of being a symbol of middle-class people reaching out to marginal minorities without society bothering to strengthen the 'safety net' or attempting to mitigate the effects of racism in society, it can be a example of how intercultural friendships can greatly improve your quality of life.
imgabe 12y ago
I feel like there's a lot missing by saying Leo "for whatever reason" does not want a bank account. What reason? Surely he has one. Could they not ask him what his reason is? They give a bunch of justification about humans being creatures of habit. Nonsense. I'm sure Leo has some notions about everything a bank account is going to entail, and it's intimidating, but I don't see why it couldn't be overcome and this article does nothing to explain that. If Patrick can teach him to code, he could teach him the logistics of setting up a bank account, finding an apartment, etc. etc.
- john_b 12y ago
  If you haven't met someone who does something "for no reason" then you haven't met enough people yet. In a strictly cause-effect sense, of course he has a reason for not wanting a bank account. That is a sentiment and some finite set of causes resulted in him feeling that way. But "for no/whatever reason" is not a philosophical statement, it's just shorthand for "for reasons he/she doesn't want to disclose" or "for reasons he/she isn't even aware of." If a thousand tiny but unknown (to the reader) experiences have given Mr. Grand a deep emotional aversion to financial institutions, "for whatever reason" is about the best you can do as a description.
- jinushaun 12y ago
  You ignore the whole part about joining the system. Grand has only been homeless for three years, so I'm sure he vividly remembers the struggle of maintaining a "normal" life—the daily struggle of making enough to pay for food and housing. It's not easy. In a city like New York, it's even harder. These are the chains that bind the non-homeless. We're basically running on a mouse wheel till we die.
  - gyom 12y ago
    It seems to me that having a bank account is barely "joining the system". We're not talking about having a house, paying taxes or working a regular job. We're just talking about having a bank card that can get money at the ATM. He doesn't even need to put money back in the bank account. The story looks very suspicious / incomplete because of that. But then again, I'm not in his shoes. Maybe I'd understand if I was.
mortov 12y ago
This is a great article to elucidate the complexities of homelessness. Despite having intelligence and a talent, resulting in an income sufficient to 'get started' on the social ladder and rejoin mainstream society, the prospect is very daunting to Leo. Even when given access to support and then a 'deadline' to push him (and being accompanied to a bank to deposit the money), it gets too much and he backs out. Homeless people are not just hopeless drunks or weirdos. They often have an array of complex and intractible fears and issues and are incapable of functioning in mainstream society - even with large amounts of help. I don't see any blame here - but it does sadden me that someone with so much clear and semi-realized potential can struggle so much. Consider for a moment how homless people less 'fortunate' [I can't help feeling that's the wrong word] must struggle every single day. I've never thought through the 'teach a man to fish' in this way; life's not actually that simple. Sadly, I don't see a solution. But I wish there was one.
- jballanc 12y ago
  It may sounds trite, but there is a solution: very strong family structures. Where I live, homelessness is essentially unheard of. Yes, many people live in dirt-floor huts, but they live together, often as large extended-family units. The lone vagabond sleeping in a box in a random city alley just doesn't happen. No family would let it happen...
  - rikkus 12y ago
    This likely helps the problem, yes. It might not fix the underlying issues, but at least the unfortunate person's personal problems aren't compounded by losing a stable place to stay.
- rikkus 12y ago
  This is the truth about homelessness - and it's what most people fail to understand, so put people who are homeless in a drug addict / drunk / crazy box so that they don't have to think about them as people.
michaelochurch 12y ago
Patrick deserves a lot of credit for taking this problem on. Say whatever about naivete, but he at least fucking did something. Most HN posters in the U.S. probably haven't experienced true financial stress. It's toxic. It makes you paranoid. Benzos don't help (and they're a terrible long-term solution anyway). You have a constant cold because your immune system is shot. And you never get used to it. It never gets better. The cognitive load is both intense and purely negative. There is no good in it. People who romanticize "poverty" are usually talking about something like grad student life (little money, little expense). Financial stress is as poisonous as ingesting paint thinner, and even a few weeks of it can permanently fuck someone up. I think that most homeless people have severe mental illness that is not their fault (and that deserves compassion and treatment, not stigma or abuse). If they didn't have it beforehand, they'll have it after a few months of that life. I think it's damn heroic that Leo was able to summon the cognitive clarity, after that kind of long-term damage, to build something. Unfortunately, that's not going to be enough to get him anywhere near the level of mental health that would enable him to hold down a typical white-collar job. That's a fucking long road.
- peterwwillis 12y ago
  > I think that most homeless people have severe mental illness This is another stigma that's counter-productive. The real number is somewhere between 20-25% suffering from severe mental illness, which is still very high, though not so high when you consider 22% of Americans suffer from some kind of a mental illness (only 6% of Americans are severely mentally ill). Mental illness is only the third largest cause of homelessness for single adults. To add to your point: poverty causes something like a 13% drop in the IQ, similar to pulling an all-nighter every day for a week.
  - jljljl 12y ago
    Here's the source I think you are citing: http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pdf http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pd... 20-25% is a pretty high number, especially when you compare it to the 6% of Americans with a severe mental illness. I can't find any good estimates for the percent of homeless with any form of mental illness. A good question (which I can't find an answer to) is what is the percentage of the long term homeless population that suffers from severe mental illness?
drzaiusapelord 12y ago
Is there an element of exploitation here from the media? It looks like Leo was on the Today show. I recall the homeless guy with a "radio voice" also got the same treatment, and ultimately, they both weren't able to normalize back into society. The idea that homelessness is just a financial problem and that if we come up with a ad-impression friendly narrative, then we can just solve it via a little fame and a little elbow grease is crazy. I guess the system got what it wanted: the Today show got its feel good story for overfed housewives and Today show advertisers got the eyeballs they wanted. Larger, more important, narratives were conveniently ignored. Meanwhile, the larger narrative on how the US's private healthcare system means huge barriers to entry and especially for mental health issues, gets swept under the rug. Leo doesn't want a bank account for non-rational reasons. A little money and fame aren't going to change that. The whole article seems to skirt around the obvious mental health issues here. Its just incredible we can just pretend they don't exist and come up with ham-handed rationalizations on why Leo doesn't want a bank account. Yeah, its because he's mentally ill and is unable to functional in a normal way.
- jobu 12y ago
  > I guess the system got what it wanted: the Today show got its feel good story for overfed housewives That comment is as narrow minded as the people that yell at homeless people to "stop being lazy and get a job". This story has the possibility to change perceptions about homeless people and the challenges they face living in our society. Setting up a new bank account is a pain in the ass (at any bank I've every used). Finding a reasonable place to live can be stressful as well. If you really think about it, the things we do as part of our life can be very frustrating or stressful, and it's even worse if you don't have friends or any kind of support network to help or give advice.
- omegaham 12y ago
  Luckily, the radio guy seems to be doing relatively well, although he's still got issues to deal with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Williams_%28voice-over_artist%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Williams_%28voice-over_arti...
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
peterwwillis 12y ago
Not to be insensitive, but any social worker could have told you all this. It's a pretty well established fact that the single biggest challenge in getting the long-term homeless back on their feet is not resources, it's repairing the damage done to their psyche. For a greatly simplified explanation, consider that studies show positive emotions have a huge impact on psychological resilience, and homeless people do not have significant amounts of positive emotional reinforcement - though they do have plenty of adverse and stressful life experiences. Children who grow up in negative, impoverished, or homeless situations are found to become developmentally stunted, though some of the effects can be reversed in quality foster care.
facepalm 12y ago
Bitcoin?
j45 12y ago
Maybe he could receive the money in Bitcoin and spend it as he needs? What a nice and insightful follow up though. Too often, we think our job is done and move on to the next keyboard warrior crusade. This experience is reflection of how we don't always think about how people who are truly less fortunate can be tied to money as much as people who have more of it. Everyone has the right to have the opportunity to work through their stuff. Not being able to have the basic necessities similarly can prevent you from pursuing one's inner growth, when the next place to eat or sleep is the real struggle. It's a collective failure of our society in many ways, if we are quick to judge and trivialize anyone's experience of their existence without taking a minute to turn any stranger into a person by learning their story and participating in humanity by treating others with unconditional dignity. There was good in this journey that should continue: - The heart was in the right place. Giving in the right mindset is all one can do. - Something positive came of this, namely someone has learned a new skill. We all feel more empowered when we can create the smallest new habit, let alone a new talent altogether. - Like everyone deserves, they are working through their stuff. I can't help but wonder if there's more like this that could be happening in other cities. Ultimately it will reach who is ready to find and take their next step, and it's not our job to create change, only help plant seeds and encourage the gardener to give it the water and sunshine it needs. At the end of the day only we can learn our own lessons, and we have a choice in supporting and encouraging each other to do so. Sounds hokey to some, but once you have the right supportive circle in your life, there's nothing like it. Hopefully the sharing of this experience doesn't turn people away from trying to improve it, no effort is perfect the first time. There are few skills like programming that can turn someone's fortunes around this day in age, whether we are homeless, or not, and everyone deserves an opportunity to see what they can be, and become.
- ctdonath 12y ago
  As few places take bitcoin, how is he supposed to operate a bitcoin account without processing transactions via a regular bank account?
  - j45 12y ago
    Maybe someone could purchase it for him? I may be looking at this from a possibility perspective instead of finding doubts and holes.
mercer 12y ago
I'm impressed by the article, as usually I expect articles on these issues to skew towards a complete misunderstanding of homelessness, often at best with a tone of exasperation. From my experience around homeless or border-line homeless people, it's always more complicated than it seems. And yet, simply being kind, even if just acknowledging their existence without making them feel judged, seems to me like a great start. Even if the underlying motivations might be misguided. Here in The Netherlands we have some systems that help those who are homeless, or those who are in danger of becoming homeless. While there is plenty of criticism, and plenty goes wrong, there are also plenty of examples of people getting back on their feet because we have strong support structures. I really hope stories such as these will help to increase initiatives like that, or at least funding of existing (result-based) programs. I feel there are some serious societal issues underlying the phenomenon, but something is better than nothing.
lrvick 12y ago
Having spent a couple years being homeless off and on, this resonates with me. During my homeless days I had a laptop for a while. I would do web programming for various online clients on it, and when that got stolen I would work from a local college forging student ids to use library computers. I made enough for fast food dollar menus, and to keep a little bit of gas in a somewhat-running car I bought for $100. The bare minimum to keep myself distracted and fed was all I did even though so much more was possible. I told myself I liked the freedom, but in truth I was just too scared and had too low of self esteem to take on a more comfortable lifestyle. Even when I found a home I picked a ghetto camper in the woods, and took only enough gigs to pay bills. I would make a couple grand on a programming/consulting contract, live on it till it ran out, then take on a new gig. It took a lot of the right people investing in me over and over, and being patient, before I started to decide that I deserved more, that I wanted more. That it was worth working hard for. It takes more than just teaching marketable skills to get someone off the streets. It takes them seeing themselves as worthy to do more with their lives. At the end of the day, they have to make that choice to change, and triggering that is going to be different for everyone. I am sure teaching this man to code was huge for his self-worth, but there are a lot of deeper emotional issues why he is there that are probably going to take a lot of time and patience to uncover one step at a time.
- j45 12y ago
  Thanks for sharing your story.
- TallGuyShort 12y ago
  You've already touched on some aspects like the fact that it's different for everyone, took the right people investing in you over and over, being patient, etc... but I'd like to hear more if you have any other thoughts. I do a lot of work with people in near-homeless situations, and I feel very helpless and frustrated when I encounter individuals that want help, but for some reason lack the internal drive to help themselves long-term when it's possible for them to do so. If you have any other thoughts about what people could have done to help you while you were in that phase, I'd like to hear more from your perspective. It's very rare that you run into a person who has been there and overcome it enough to talk about it.
vkjv 12y ago
Reasons for poverty extend beyond lack of a marketable skill. News at 11.
downandout 12y ago
While I (sort of) understand someone in Leo's position having an aversion to walking in and opening a traditional bank account, in today's society we have very good solutions for the 1 in 12 people in the US that are "unbanked". The guy holding his money could just buy him a reloadable prepaid Visa/Mastercard and load the money on there. No banks, social security cards etc. That way he isn't walking around with $10K cash, and he can go to an ATM at night when no one is around if he is afraid of people. There may be issues I'm not aware of. Perhaps Leo is a former drug addict and doesn't trust that he can stay clean (or alive for that matter) if he has a sudden influx of cash. Even that could be dealt with though, as his benefactor could simply transfer money to the card in small increments. It just seems that there are easy solutions to whatever issues exist, and that they haven't been explored (based solely on the information in this article).

150 points by talhof8 12y ago

sbahra 12y ago

"Give a man to fish."

logfromblammo 12y ago
You know how it goes. Give a man to fish, and today is eating; teach him a fish, and he forevers.

namenotrequired 12y ago

> Patrick McConlogue, for all intents and purposes, did not "solve homelessness." No, but he solved what Leo saw as the worst problem of the homeless man by being his friend. He's happy now.

ufmace 12y ago

I'm really glad they did a follow-up on this. Seems much more insightful than just throwing an idea like "Let's teach them to code!" out there, trying it for 10 minutes, and then moving on to the next story. This does a much better job of illustrating how complex the issue is, and how just throwing money at it may not help much.

russelluresti 12y ago

It's very strange how people approach this story. The entire mentality of "He's still homeless so obviously this was a waste of time." is dumb. Yes, there are multiple issues that need to be dealt with when you talk about re-integrating someone into society, but one of the biggest issues (perhaps second after any mental/emotional trauma) is the ability to earn money. Leo has been taught a skill that has earned him money, and one where he can continue to develop this skill and make more money.

squigs25 12y ago

This really shows how much humans are creatures of habit.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

mcherm 12y ago
There is something seriously wrong with your analogy.
- JetSpiegel 12y ago
  Indeed, people can live with no money...
vstm 12y ago
But the problem here is not that he does not have money - the $ 10k belong to him. It's just that he needs to open up a bank-account to access that money. The potential for sex (your analogy)/money is there but the conditions to "release it" aren't met. Or to use your analogy: he has someone willing to have sex with him, but that person doesn't want to do it on the street - this person just wants to have sex in a proper bed.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

Cthulhu_ 12y ago
Or just have him withdraw and hand over cash every once in a while. But to be honest, I know nothing about this Leo guy; for all I know he knows he'll just spend the money on drugs and he's keeping himself away from that temptation on purpose.
- orkoden 12y ago
  It's his money so he can spend it on drugs if he chooses to.
  - leishulang 12y ago
    he choose to spend it by not spending.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    But if he chooses not to keep it on hand, to prevent himself from spending it on drugs, he can choose that too.
  - zo1 12y ago
    Sure is. But he's choosing not to withdraw it from the other guy's account. No one is keeping it from him.
  - seriously_guys 12y ago
    Nobody said otherwise.
- S4M 12y ago
  I don't think it's a good idea for a homeless guy to be caring 10k in cash.
andrew_gardener 12y ago
The reasons he hasn't been paid is because Leo doesn't want to open a bank account and they both agree that cashing out is a bad idea. Its important to know that having a lot of cash on hand can be dangerous for anyone and even more so for the homeless. There are ways around it and receiving smaller sums over time might solve the problem but its really up to what Leo's comfortable with.

martinald 12y ago

Pretty appalling in my eyes setting him an ultimatum. I would imagine Patrick would have the lawyers out if someone gave him an ultimatum that he would struggle to meet like that. Homelessness is an intensely difficult problem to solve and won't be solved overnight by giving people a laptop and some books.

andrew_gardener 12y ago
Its my sincere hope that it is a "soft" ultimatum. That is, if the deadline is reached, that Patrick will just extend it with another deadline. I think Patrick is just trying to apply some pressure to help Leo take the money in one form or another (now if that's a good idea or not...) Of course I have no idea what Patrick will do if it comes down to the deadline but I truly hope he's not going to force some sort of resolution.

danso 12y ago

> Patrick McConlogue, for all intents and purposes, did not "solve homelessness." The result seems to echo the statements made by the project's biggest critics — not everyone wants to be saved. Fixing homelessness is a lot more complicated than everyone thinks. If you try to help a homeless person, then you must also end all homelessness or accept that you're just a naive failure, apparently.

glesica 12y ago
If you try to help a homeless person, then you must also end all homelessness or accept that you're just a naive failure, apparently. Not at all. But when you (to some extent) and others (to a much, much greater extent) hold up a project or strategy as being a solution to a problem, it is important for the outcome to be publicized, whether that outcome is success or failure (or some of both). This situation got a lot of attention when it started, so it needs just as much, if not more, attention now that it has (more or less) concluded. I recall there being a lot of implicit, and some explicit, suggestions that this sort of thing could "scale". Turns out it can't. That's an important piece of knowledge to have for the future. Edit: formatting
- eloisant 12y ago
  Indeed, the experiment is very skewed because he only managed to make 10 grand because he was homeless and the whole story got publicized. His app is fairly common, and without the "media story" around it he would probably have made a bit more than $20 over the same span of time. Just like most app developers.
pessimizer 12y ago
Maybe black or homeless people only exist as symbols, and not people. This can't be about Patrick helping Leo, but has to be about society helping the abandoned. I'm usually really critical about the tone-deafness when it comes to tech people and poverty, but I'm not sure what there is to criticize about a friendship between two people that has been so obviously mutually beneficial. Instead of being a symbol of middle-class people reaching out to marginal minorities without society bothering to strengthen the 'safety net' or attempting to mitigate the effects of racism in society, it can be a example of how intercultural friendships can greatly improve your quality of life.

imgabe 12y ago

I feel like there's a lot missing by saying Leo "for whatever reason" does not want a bank account. What reason? Surely he has one. Could they not ask him what his reason is? They give a bunch of justification about humans being creatures of habit. Nonsense. I'm sure Leo has some notions about everything a bank account is going to entail, and it's intimidating, but I don't see why it couldn't be overcome and this article does nothing to explain that. If Patrick can teach him to code, he could teach him the logistics of setting up a bank account, finding an apartment, etc. etc.

john_b 12y ago
If you haven't met someone who does something "for no reason" then you haven't met enough people yet. In a strictly cause-effect sense, of course he has a reason for not wanting a bank account. That is a sentiment and some finite set of causes resulted in him feeling that way. But "for no/whatever reason" is not a philosophical statement, it's just shorthand for "for reasons he/she doesn't want to disclose" or "for reasons he/she isn't even aware of." If a thousand tiny but unknown (to the reader) experiences have given Mr. Grand a deep emotional aversion to financial institutions, "for whatever reason" is about the best you can do as a description.
jinushaun 12y ago
You ignore the whole part about joining the system. Grand has only been homeless for three years, so I'm sure he vividly remembers the struggle of maintaining a "normal" life—the daily struggle of making enough to pay for food and housing. It's not easy. In a city like New York, it's even harder. These are the chains that bind the non-homeless. We're basically running on a mouse wheel till we die.
- gyom 12y ago
  It seems to me that having a bank account is barely "joining the system". We're not talking about having a house, paying taxes or working a regular job. We're just talking about having a bank card that can get money at the ATM. He doesn't even need to put money back in the bank account. The story looks very suspicious / incomplete because of that. But then again, I'm not in his shoes. Maybe I'd understand if I was.

mortov 12y ago

This is a great article to elucidate the complexities of homelessness. Despite having intelligence and a talent, resulting in an income sufficient to 'get started' on the social ladder and rejoin mainstream society, the prospect is very daunting to Leo. Even when given access to support and then a 'deadline' to push him (and being accompanied to a bank to deposit the money), it gets too much and he backs out. Homeless people are not just hopeless drunks or weirdos. They often have an array of complex and intractible fears and issues and are incapable of functioning in mainstream society - even with large amounts of help. I don't see any blame here - but it does sadden me that someone with so much clear and semi-realized potential can struggle so much. Consider for a moment how homless people less 'fortunate' [I can't help feeling that's the wrong word] must struggle every single day. I've never thought through the 'teach a man to fish' in this way; life's not actually that simple. Sadly, I don't see a solution. But I wish there was one.

jballanc 12y ago
It may sounds trite, but there is a solution: very strong family structures. Where I live, homelessness is essentially unheard of. Yes, many people live in dirt-floor huts, but they live together, often as large extended-family units. The lone vagabond sleeping in a box in a random city alley just doesn't happen. No family would let it happen...
- rikkus 12y ago
  This likely helps the problem, yes. It might not fix the underlying issues, but at least the unfortunate person's personal problems aren't compounded by losing a stable place to stay.
rikkus 12y ago
This is the truth about homelessness - and it's what most people fail to understand, so put people who are homeless in a drug addict / drunk / crazy box so that they don't have to think about them as people.

michaelochurch 12y ago

Patrick deserves a lot of credit for taking this problem on. Say whatever about naivete, but he at least fucking did something. Most HN posters in the U.S. probably haven't experienced true financial stress. It's toxic. It makes you paranoid. Benzos don't help (and they're a terrible long-term solution anyway). You have a constant cold because your immune system is shot. And you never get used to it. It never gets better. The cognitive load is both intense and purely negative. There is no good in it. People who romanticize "poverty" are usually talking about something like grad student life (little money, little expense). Financial stress is as poisonous as ingesting paint thinner, and even a few weeks of it can permanently fuck someone up. I think that most homeless people have severe mental illness that is not their fault (and that deserves compassion and treatment, not stigma or abuse). If they didn't have it beforehand, they'll have it after a few months of that life. I think it's damn heroic that Leo was able to summon the cognitive clarity, after that kind of long-term damage, to build something. Unfortunately, that's not going to be enough to get him anywhere near the level of mental health that would enable him to hold down a typical white-collar job. That's a fucking long road.

peterwwillis 12y ago
> I think that most homeless people have severe mental illness This is another stigma that's counter-productive. The real number is somewhere between 20-25% suffering from severe mental illness, which is still very high, though not so high when you consider 22% of Americans suffer from some kind of a mental illness (only 6% of Americans are severely mentally ill). Mental illness is only the third largest cause of homelessness for single adults. To add to your point: poverty causes something like a 13% drop in the IQ, similar to pulling an all-nighter every day for a week.
- jljljl 12y ago
  Here's the source I think you are citing: http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pdf http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pd... 20-25% is a pretty high number, especially when you compare it to the 6% of Americans with a severe mental illness. I can't find any good estimates for the percent of homeless with any form of mental illness. A good question (which I can't find an answer to) is what is the percentage of the long term homeless population that suffers from severe mental illness?

drzaiusapelord 12y ago

Is there an element of exploitation here from the media? It looks like Leo was on the Today show. I recall the homeless guy with a "radio voice" also got the same treatment, and ultimately, they both weren't able to normalize back into society. The idea that homelessness is just a financial problem and that if we come up with a ad-impression friendly narrative, then we can just solve it via a little fame and a little elbow grease is crazy. I guess the system got what it wanted: the Today show got its feel good story for overfed housewives and Today show advertisers got the eyeballs they wanted. Larger, more important, narratives were conveniently ignored. Meanwhile, the larger narrative on how the US's private healthcare system means huge barriers to entry and especially for mental health issues, gets swept under the rug. Leo doesn't want a bank account for non-rational reasons. A little money and fame aren't going to change that. The whole article seems to skirt around the obvious mental health issues here. Its just incredible we can just pretend they don't exist and come up with ham-handed rationalizations on why Leo doesn't want a bank account. Yeah, its because he's mentally ill and is unable to functional in a normal way.

jobu 12y ago
> I guess the system got what it wanted: the Today show got its feel good story for overfed housewives That comment is as narrow minded as the people that yell at homeless people to "stop being lazy and get a job". This story has the possibility to change perceptions about homeless people and the challenges they face living in our society. Setting up a new bank account is a pain in the ass (at any bank I've every used). Finding a reasonable place to live can be stressful as well. If you really think about it, the things we do as part of our life can be very frustrating or stressful, and it's even worse if you don't have friends or any kind of support network to help or give advice.
omegaham 12y ago
Luckily, the radio guy seems to be doing relatively well, although he's still got issues to deal with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Williams_%28voice-over_artist%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Williams_%28voice-over_arti...
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

peterwwillis 12y ago

Not to be insensitive, but any social worker could have told you all this. It's a pretty well established fact that the single biggest challenge in getting the long-term homeless back on their feet is not resources, it's repairing the damage done to their psyche. For a greatly simplified explanation, consider that studies show positive emotions have a huge impact on psychological resilience, and homeless people do not have significant amounts of positive emotional reinforcement - though they do have plenty of adverse and stressful life experiences. Children who grow up in negative, impoverished, or homeless situations are found to become developmentally stunted, though some of the effects can be reversed in quality foster care.

facepalm 12y ago

Bitcoin?

j45 12y ago

Maybe he could receive the money in Bitcoin and spend it as he needs? What a nice and insightful follow up though. Too often, we think our job is done and move on to the next keyboard warrior crusade. This experience is reflection of how we don't always think about how people who are truly less fortunate can be tied to money as much as people who have more of it. Everyone has the right to have the opportunity to work through their stuff. Not being able to have the basic necessities similarly can prevent you from pursuing one's inner growth, when the next place to eat or sleep is the real struggle. It's a collective failure of our society in many ways, if we are quick to judge and trivialize anyone's experience of their existence without taking a minute to turn any stranger into a person by learning their story and participating in humanity by treating others with unconditional dignity. There was good in this journey that should continue: - The heart was in the right place. Giving in the right mindset is all one can do. - Something positive came of this, namely someone has learned a new skill. We all feel more empowered when we can create the smallest new habit, let alone a new talent altogether. - Like everyone deserves, they are working through their stuff. I can't help but wonder if there's more like this that could be happening in other cities. Ultimately it will reach who is ready to find and take their next step, and it's not our job to create change, only help plant seeds and encourage the gardener to give it the water and sunshine it needs. At the end of the day only we can learn our own lessons, and we have a choice in supporting and encouraging each other to do so. Sounds hokey to some, but once you have the right supportive circle in your life, there's nothing like it. Hopefully the sharing of this experience doesn't turn people away from trying to improve it, no effort is perfect the first time. There are few skills like programming that can turn someone's fortunes around this day in age, whether we are homeless, or not, and everyone deserves an opportunity to see what they can be, and become.

ctdonath 12y ago
As few places take bitcoin, how is he supposed to operate a bitcoin account without processing transactions via a regular bank account?
- j45 12y ago
  Maybe someone could purchase it for him? I may be looking at this from a possibility perspective instead of finding doubts and holes.

mercer 12y ago

I'm impressed by the article, as usually I expect articles on these issues to skew towards a complete misunderstanding of homelessness, often at best with a tone of exasperation. From my experience around homeless or border-line homeless people, it's always more complicated than it seems. And yet, simply being kind, even if just acknowledging their existence without making them feel judged, seems to me like a great start. Even if the underlying motivations might be misguided. Here in The Netherlands we have some systems that help those who are homeless, or those who are in danger of becoming homeless. While there is plenty of criticism, and plenty goes wrong, there are also plenty of examples of people getting back on their feet because we have strong support structures. I really hope stories such as these will help to increase initiatives like that, or at least funding of existing (result-based) programs. I feel there are some serious societal issues underlying the phenomenon, but something is better than nothing.

lrvick 12y ago

Having spent a couple years being homeless off and on, this resonates with me. During my homeless days I had a laptop for a while. I would do web programming for various online clients on it, and when that got stolen I would work from a local college forging student ids to use library computers. I made enough for fast food dollar menus, and to keep a little bit of gas in a somewhat-running car I bought for $100. The bare minimum to keep myself distracted and fed was all I did even though so much more was possible. I told myself I liked the freedom, but in truth I was just too scared and had too low of self esteem to take on a more comfortable lifestyle. Even when I found a home I picked a ghetto camper in the woods, and took only enough gigs to pay bills. I would make a couple grand on a programming/consulting contract, live on it till it ran out, then take on a new gig. It took a lot of the right people investing in me over and over, and being patient, before I started to decide that I deserved more, that I wanted more. That it was worth working hard for. It takes more than just teaching marketable skills to get someone off the streets. It takes them seeing themselves as worthy to do more with their lives. At the end of the day, they have to make that choice to change, and triggering that is going to be different for everyone. I am sure teaching this man to code was huge for his self-worth, but there are a lot of deeper emotional issues why he is there that are probably going to take a lot of time and patience to uncover one step at a time.

j45 12y ago
Thanks for sharing your story.
TallGuyShort 12y ago
You've already touched on some aspects like the fact that it's different for everyone, took the right people investing in you over and over, being patient, etc... but I'd like to hear more if you have any other thoughts. I do a lot of work with people in near-homeless situations, and I feel very helpless and frustrated when I encounter individuals that want help, but for some reason lack the internal drive to help themselves long-term when it's possible for them to do so. If you have any other thoughts about what people could have done to help you while you were in that phase, I'd like to hear more from your perspective. It's very rare that you run into a person who has been there and overcome it enough to talk about it.

vkjv 12y ago

Reasons for poverty extend beyond lack of a marketable skill. News at 11.

downandout 12y ago

While I (sort of) understand someone in Leo's position having an aversion to walking in and opening a traditional bank account, in today's society we have very good solutions for the 1 in 12 people in the US that are "unbanked". The guy holding his money could just buy him a reloadable prepaid Visa/Mastercard and load the money on there. No banks, social security cards etc. That way he isn't walking around with $10K cash, and he can go to an ATM at night when no one is around if he is afraid of people. There may be issues I'm not aware of. Perhaps Leo is a former drug addict and doesn't trust that he can stay clean (or alive for that matter) if he has a sudden influx of cash. Even that could be dealt with though, as his benefactor could simply transfer money to the card in small increments. It just seems that there are easy solutions to whatever issues exist, and that they haven't been explored (based solely on the information in this article).