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Why I Don’t Do CrossFit

• ZenPro 12y ago
  A well written and comprehensive rebuttal to the cult-like CrossFit. Thanks for the link.
• barsonme 12y ago
  CF is so easy to hate on, and for good reason. My only issue is that the idea behind CF (work till failure, repetition, and so on) isn't bad in and of itself. Doing 50 cleans isn't bad, per se, it's how you do it that makes it bad. And CF tends to be run by people who propagate bad form, too much weight, and that leads to people getting hurt. I think it brings both good and bad things to the table, and gets loads of hate because the bad is really bad. I still won't do CF though. And it does tend to be much like a cult, as ZenPro said. That's weird as well.
• paulbaumgart 12y ago
  I've only done it at http://www.crossfitv16.com http://www.crossfitv16.com so my experience may not be typical, but in the classes I've been taking, there's a strong emphasis on good technique and no pressure to push yourself past reasonable limits. It's definitely a bit amateur compared to what top coaches can offer, but it's also affordable to amateur athletes. Finally, the workouts are clearly not optimal for strength gain, but the idea is to train coordination and balance as well. So I guess my point is, YMMV when it comes to Crossfit gyms, perhaps unsurprisingly given that it's a franchise.
  • zo1 12y ago
    Doesn't sound like you read the whole article. The author specifically addresses the "but my gym is doing it correctly, it's the others that aren't" cult-like mentality. Each gym does it, and it's a form of indoctrination.
    • vertis 12y ago
      (Note: I don't do CrossFit, and I'm not looking to defend CrossFit) Of the whole article, I found that point the weakest. The author hasn't been to every CrossFit gym out there, so I don't know how he can claim "every single thing that I’ve posted in this article refers to EVERY SINGLE GYM THAT FOLLOWS CROSSFIT"
      • blankenship 12y ago
        The Workout Of The Day is one of the main things he takes issue with. The OP can claim “every single” because the primary methodology of Crossfit is ubiquitous—that’s what makes it a Crossfit gym. He doesn’t have to visit every Crossfit gym to know they do a WOD; it wouldn’t be a Crossfit gym without the WOD. It’s like saying I don’t need to visit every movie theater in America to know that they all show movies at regular intervals.
        • ZenPro 12y ago
          I cannot +1 this comment enough. I have seen recently, particularly from STEM-themed forums that the standard rebuttal is "you cannot speak for every X since every X is not documented/viewed/visited". The cinema analogy is very well put. It is an exceptionally weak attempt to divert an argument by claiming *all X must be tested." In reality all that is required is a reasonable belief of proof that withstands questioning. The OP easily withstands questioning when speaking for all of CrossFit.
          • 2muchcoffeeman 12y ago
            Except that blankenship and the author are wrong. Go to 10 different gyms on the same day and you'll get 10 different workouts with 10 different formats. WOD is simply an acronym of a phrase used to describe what you are doing today. There is no definition. I have been training at a CrossFit gym for several years now. I do the WODs that most people do sometimes. However we also have a small rock climbing "system wall" that I do climbing drills on. I have also been cycling through running programs to be a better runner, single leg programs to improve stability and balance due to injury (not CrossFit related) and just for fun a one arm chin up program just to see if we can do it. All under some supervision from the head coach. We also have ultra marathoners and dedicated Olympic lifters at our gym all doing different WODs. My CrossFit gym clearly does not conform to the "Reebok CrossFit Games" style of working out and I challenge you to show me when rock climbing drills came up in any WOD. All these arguments against CrossFit are really against the common public perception of CrossFit. Plenty of gyms out there that don't do that and still have "CrossFit" in the name. BTW, I agree that the popular form of CrossFit is stupid and everyone should probably stay away from these gyms.
• peteretep 12y ago
  Why I don't do CrossFit: I got tired of getting injured.
  • newaccountfool 12y ago
    What type of injuries? Maybe you need to warm up more, lower the weight and concentrate on the form more than the strength. Crossfit is hard because it incorporates Snatch and Clean and Jerk, to get good at those requires 3+ years
    • ZenPro 12y ago
      CF does not particularly reward lower weight and form concentration. The movement rewards speed and explosive progression rather than incremental progression based on safe principles. I am not a hater of CF but putting people in a competitive environment where they are encouraged to max effort then saying "you should have taken it easy" is ludicrous.
    • peteretep 12y ago
      Crossfit is not hard because it incorporates a few Olympic lifts; it's because it asks you to do 50 clean and jerks as quickly as you can.
      • matwood 12y ago
        ...without regard to form. A workout that I have enjoyed success from came from Huge in a Hurry. Every rep is to be done with perfect form. If the form breaks down the set stops.
      • newaccountfool 12y ago
        Your getting injured because of the form them, not because of fatigue. If you keep training the fatigue will go away if its an injury due to bad form then that's harder to solve. Basically man up and push through the pain, or stop and quit no other way about it your not going to get fitter otherwise.
• mitchellh 12y ago
  Disclaimer: I've done crossfit for over 2 years at this point. This is actually one of the best written anti-crossfit posts I've come across. Most are anecdotal "I went to one gym that didn't focus on form so all gyms must be bad" posts, which are tiring. This post goes over some great details which as a crossfitter I would say are true. That being said, after doing CrossFit for 2 years I have a few tidbits of advice: * Find a gym that focuses on form over workout. They exist, and crossfit is popular enough at this point that you should be able to find it. * If you don't plan on being SUPER into CrossFit, ask for substitute workouts for the gymnastic moves: handstand pushups, most things with rings, parallel bars, etc. It just isn't worth the time learning how to do these, and you can hurt yourself. Just do something simple, they always have substitutes. * I personally, like the author of this post, don't do deadlifts and rarely do kettlebell swings. I am not a professional athlete or trainer, but I really primarily only heard of people getting hurt with these workouts, so I chose to avoid them. Sounds like this was a good decision. There are substitute workouts for each. My goal with CrossFit isn't to be ripped and exploded. My goal with CrossFit is to remain in good physical health based on the fact that I sit (or remain still standing) for 10+ hours per day. To that end, its been a HUGE success. The team environment of CrossFit is a great motivator both to workout hard but also to show up (social pressures). The diversified workouts of crossfit keep my strength up pretty high. All this being said, listen to the linked post of this entry. It has really good info.
  • Spooky23 12y ago
    The problem with cross fit is they treat pasty cube dwellers like athletes, and they get injured often and badly as a result. The average person is pretty clueless about this stuff and doesn't necessarily get that dead lifts and kettleball swings can screw up their backs. That's what a coach/trainer is supposed to do.
  • yulaow 12y ago
    Kettlebell swings are generally bad but Deadlifts are considered fundamentals also in the BB area. Explosive Deadlifts are bad, that's for sure specially with high weights, but well slow executed deadlifts are one of the best exercise to strengthen all your body and improve his hormonal response. That's why in a good gym the trainers focus very very very hard on teaching the correct execution ROM before allow you to even start to increase the weights.
• jonas_b 12y ago
  FWIW. Here in Oslo, everyone has to do a weekend-intro just to become a member. And instructors are here are really thorough. Other than getting a personal trainer, I don't see how you could get more attention/correction than going to entry-level workout at my gym.
  • commandar 12y ago
    One of the big problems with Crossfit is there's absolutely no consistency between locations. Anyone with a grand and a weekend to spare can become a Crossfit instructor. So, if you're lucky, you get an instructor that really knows what they're doing. If you're not, you get somebody that programs dangerous lifts in and gives them to people that don't know any better and expect their instructor to know what is or isn't safe.
• theboss 12y ago
  cross fit is really an infiritating thing. The people who do it are sometimes diehard fans with absolutely no knowledge of how to build strength or an "elite athlete". A lot of people just like the brand... But the diehard fans aren't the worst part. Cross fit the organization loves to shut people down who speak poorly of them. They also have made a lot of unsubstantiated claims about the type of results that can be expected by following cross fit programming (which is laughably bad). Its also thought that they run the cross fit games unfairly since there is a conflict of interest in sponsoring their top athletes and putting on the cross fit games where their sponsored athletes and no sponsored compete. The worst part is the bad programming and the dangers of having a coach who is instructing you to do things that are obviously bad ideas. Extremely high rep oly lifting is a reciepe for disaster since the lifts are very skill based. With all that said. One thing about cross fit is really good. They have got people training with barbells and started a lot of people down a path where they can start getting information they need to train better and smarter. But I'll be saving my 100 a month..
  • rm445 12y ago
    As an outsider, a LOT of the backlash against crossfit seems to be snootiness from traditional weightlifters who seem confused that crossfit is not trying to be powerlifting or bodybuilding, although many of the same exercises are used. Crossfit looks to be a kind of sports conditioning training, and as such of course it's going to involve higher intensity, shorter rests and higher reps. Now I don't know how possible it is to design a safe weights workout in those circumstances. There are almost certainly exercises that shouldn't be done quickly, or shouldn't be done tired, or shouldn't be done without perfect form. And almost certainly people are doing those exercises in crossfit gyms quickly, or when tired, or without perfect form, and increasing their risk of injury as a result. But in a perfect world those people would __still be training that way__, albeit with better instructors and choice of exercises. Because it suits them to train for their sports or general fitness. They're not going to all change their minds one day and become powerlifters.
    • theboss 12y ago
      Like I said, there are a lot of reasons for backlash. I didn't even touch on most of them. I disagree that their goal is "Sports conditioning training". Because this is not consistent with their who their clientele is. Their vast majority of their clientele is average people, with no prior lifting experience, who have heard of it.
• eterps 12y ago
  The problem is that other than having a personal trainer I don't see anything better than CrossFit gyms. The 'normal' gyms are usually a lot worse than CF ones, at least around here (I am living in Amsterdam). Would love to hear other experiences though.
  • ddorian43 12y ago
    have you tried kickboxing (since you ARE in Amsterdam) ?
  • theboss 12y ago
    I don't know what you mean. Cross fit undoubtedly has pretty good equipment compared to a globo-gym, but globo-gyms will have everything you need 99% of the time. A squat rack, a bench, and some barbells...Places to do pull-ups, dips, a huge array of dumbbells.... It also isn't hard to find gyms with bumper plates that are powerlifting/oly friendly, or specialized gyms that have whatever your in to (rock climbinb gyms exist, etc)... You just have to do your research
  • avar 12y ago
    I'm in Amsterdam and I train outside with The Bootcamp Club (https://thebootcampclub.nl/nl/ https://thebootcampclub.nl/nl/), have you tried that? Almost all the trainings are outside, and mostly focus on endurance and bodyweight exercises.
• decasteve 12y ago
  As a former athlete I like the direction CrossFit took even though I have similar complaints to the article. I try not to paint all CrossFits as the same. I know a few that are exceptionally well run. I like that CrossFit got people away from the 1980's muscle-mag workouts--isolation exercises, i.e. everyone training like Arnold.
  • matwood 12y ago
    Full body workouts, compound movements, etc... became popular way before CrossFit.
  • defen 12y ago
    > everyone training like Arnold. Which is funny because compound lifts were a key part of his training repertoire http://ericsgym.com/arnoldschwarzenegger/gym_pictures/arnold_24.jpeg http://ericsgym.com/arnoldschwarzenegger/gym_pictures/arnold...
    • newaccountfool 12y ago
      Many don't know that Arnold also competed in Olympic Weightlifting as well. He's probably very good because he started at the basics.
    • decasteve 12y ago
      But what was promoted in the early 80's, the workouts they would feature him doing, were not compound lifts.
• Jabbles 12y ago
  Another article on CrossFit, written by Mark Rippetoe, a famous and influential strength coach, is here: http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-t... He makes many of the same points, but I find the arguments more persuasive. It's also interesting to note the arguments in favour of CrossFit. Finally, Mark seems to have completely different opinions about deadlifting; he regards them as a staple to strength training, whereas the OP "doesn't do" them for unknown reasons. I find the disagreement among professionals to be intriguing.
  • r0h1n 12y ago
    I too was perplexed by the OP's aversion to deadlifts. It's pretty much a staple exercise in most strength training programs - right from Rippletoe's classic "Starting Strength Training" to "New Rules of Lifting" to even StrongLifts 5x5.
    • imsofuture 12y ago
      I quit doing deadlifts when I stopped competing in powerlifting. Deadlifts are a fine lift, and not inherently dangerous -- but I do think they are inherently risky. After hurting my back (while being competently coached), now lifting uncoached, and without one of my goals being 'deadlift a big number to get a medal' -- I've dropped them from my routine. I just don't find the benefits necessarily worth the risk, in my specific case.
    • sheepmullet 12y ago
      Because it is very easy to be stupid with deadlifts. You should be following these simple guidelines but hardly anyone does: 1. If you are tired/hungover/sick/not feeling well/angry then don't deadlift 2. If you don't have the time to do 3-5 warmup sets then don't deadlift 3. If you don't have time to rest at least 3 mins between sets then don't deadlift. 4. If you can't lift a light/medium weight with perfect form then don't try and go heavy. 5. If you aren't competing and under the instruction of a trained powerlifting coach then don't try and max anything. If you can't do 7 reps with a weight then you shouldn't be doing 5 reps. Likewise if you can't do 3 reps with a weight then you shouldn't be doing 1. Leave 1-2 reps in the bank.
• newaccountfool 12y ago
  I get coached at Olympic Weightlifting and all the people in our circle slag of Crossfit due to the cult nature of it, the lack of form and the cost. Is it really that expensive how much is it to train at a Corssfit gym in the states?
  • jacques_chester 12y ago
    I'm a weightlifting coach. I generally agree with Mark Rippetoe's observation that Crossfit is the best thing to happen to my sport in English-speaking countries. Lots of people meet weightlifting, fall in love, and switch.
• king_magic 12y ago
  I'm not going to refute the author, merely, here is my experience: I've done CF for 2+ years, and frankly, I've gotten a lot out of it. I like/trust my coaches, I like the community, and I like the challenge. I never thought I'd be capable of what I can do these days, and so for me, it's a success story. I go twice a week, and have been doing so (roughly) for the past two years, except for a period of a few months where I had a hernia repaired. The origins of the hernia were 5-6 years old, and it never was very painful or caused much in the way of problems, and I actually think that a year of CF actually helped reduce the severity of it (and my surgeon agrees). Thess days, I take things much easier, but am still making progress against my personal goals. So at the end of the day, does the author have valid points? Sure. But I think, like pretty much everything people are passionately for or against on the internet, the truth is in a gray area. It's not as black and white as I think the author is making it out to be. CrossFit has helped a lot of people, myself included. CrossFit hasn't helped some people who have tried it. You could replace "CrossFit" with "college" (or a lot of other things in life), and I think you'd find that again, the truth is really in a gray area, somewhere in between the opposing factions.
  • Pacabel 12y ago
    I don't get the moderation here at HN these days. Currently, the comment I'm replying to has been voted down, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. The content seems very reasonable, informative and detailed to me, even if it may partially contradict the submission's article. It gave me a different perspective on the issue, which I find useful. I see absolutely no reason why it should be greyed out. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up getting voted up soon enough, too. It's just disappointing to see so many totally legitimate and valid comments ending up in this state these days.
    • stefantalpalaru 12y ago
      It started to happen when a moderator came out of the shadow encouraging users to downvote comments they don't agree to. So here we are now, reddit without a reddiquette.
• Huggernaut 12y ago
  I don't do CrossFit and I think CrossFit has many problems. I do not however, think that given proper instruction and supervision, the exercises and rep ranges are particularly problematic. The key point to keep in mind regarding CrossFit is the end goal, the CrossFit games. CrossFitters are not training to be bodybuilders, powerlifters, strongmen, football players or sprinters, they are training to be CrossFitters. If they do a WOD, it is not designed optimally to make them aesthetic or strong, it is designed to improve them in competition. Much like you would not go to an athletic track and complain that the sprinters are not optimally training for a marathon or go to a powerlifting gym and complain the players are not training optimally for bodybuilding, why would you go to a CrossFit gym and complain they aren't training optimally for any number of other forms of competition that involve weight? That said, it should be clear to people when they sign up to a CrossFit gym that this is indeed the case and other benefits are side effects.
• natejenkins 12y ago
  For the most part, I think people want a workout to follow, they want to be part of a gym, and they want fellow sufferers and coaches to motivate them. I don't think the motivation for people doing CrossFit is worded correctly. People want to do CrossFit because it's fun. For most people, going to a normal gym is boring. I tried gyms on and off for years but could never stick to going more than 4-6 weeks at a time before losing interest. While I don't do CrossFit, I do another sport that replaces lifting, climbing in my case. I get most of the benefits of going to a gym plus it is insanely fun and I've met countless friends through it. There is a huge market out there for fun replacements for the gym. I'm guesstimating that 75% of the people in a regular gym are not having a good time and would swap their current workout routine with something enjoyable and social. There simply aren't many choices. I can think of climbing, CrossFit, the up-and-coming parkours gyms (looks awesome: http://www.apexmovement.com/ http://www.apexmovement.com/), probably boxing (although surprisingly getting punched in the face sucks), what else? In principle yoga could be on this list but in practice the yoga centers I've been to feel a bit uptight and certainly aren't social. Team sports are great fun but all I can think of are cardiovascular and don't give you any muscle building exercises.
  • davidtanner 12y ago
    BJJ is a good cardio/strength fun activity that doesn't feel boring and is social. Contact, and especially grappling type sports do tend to make people stronger since they involve a lot of grabbing, twisting, lifting, etc. of another person's body as they resist. BJJ can be done in a playful and relaxed way or very competitive and grinding. One can do it a small space on cheap mats with friends or at a formal school or competition. It's full of possibilities and things to learn so it doesn't get boring.
    • natejenkins 12y ago
      Ah yes, I forgot about grappling sports. BJJ does look like great fun as long as you are not required to get the cauliflower ears. I once had a friend "demo" it to me by challenging me to punch or kick him. By the end of the demo I was done punching or kicking for quite some time.
• krick 12y ago
  From the medical point of view what author says is true. Actually, it's not something new, there are many complaints about crossfit from knowledgeable people. Especially often I see powerlifters ranting about crossfit being harmful. But here's the problem. As you know HN isn't sports resource, yet article about CF is on top. Why? …You see what I mean? It's extremely popular amongst people that don't want to be powerlifters or swimmers or sprinters, that don't really care about competing at all, they just want to have some exercising program to follow and stay fit. Which is totally fair. For which crossfit is better than nothing (at least until you injure your ankle while doing box-jumps). And I completely understand those who doesn't follow advices like "don't do crossfit, do powerlifting" as powerlifting competitions cannot be the goal for them. What I'm saying is when there is counter-advice there should be advice as well. Now, Erin isn't a powerlifter and sure she provides something like "fitness training plan", but while the idea of crossfit training is clear (maximizing intensity whatever exercises you do) neither she nor others provide enough material for self-education to be able to do some "not-harmful crossfit". And people essentially want "not-harmful crossfit", not training for judo or sprinting or powerlifting… unless they do judo or sprinting or powerlifting of course. So, tl;dr: crossfit is harmful — nothing new here. "Train like an athlete, but train safely." — not informative/constructive enough.
  • twic 12y ago
    > As you know HN isn't sports resource, yet article about CF is on top. Why? …You see what I mean? It's extremely popular amongst people that don't want to be powerlifters or swimmers or sprinters, that don't really care about competing at all, they just want to have some exercising program to follow and stay fit. They want to build strength and fitness, but don't want to put in the time that usually takes, so they want a shortcut, so they're ready to believe when someone sells them one. CrossFit is fitness hacking!
• huherto 12y ago
  But it doesn't answer the question. How would you modify crossfit to make it safer and more effective and keep it fun.
  • lingben 12y ago
    sure, you could modify crossfit to make it safer and more effective but then it wouldn't be crossfit, would it?
  • omegaham 12y ago
    Create a distinction between low-stress exercises and high-stress exercises. The former can be done to failure; the latter have to be stopped as soon as your form starts to break down. The former include a lot of body-weight exercises - push-ups, sit-ups, flutter kicks, planks, etc. The latter is any exercise where a breakdown in form is actively dangerous - deadlift, snatch, clean and jerk, squats, and so on. Do the former all you want; the worst you're going to get is some soreness and maybe muscle strain. The latter will tear things.
  • ulisesrmzroche 12y ago
    Nothing but bodyweight exercises to begin with. 100 burpees will get you ripped and even grandmothers can reach that goal safely.
  • illuminate 12y ago
    "How would you modify crossfit to make it safer and more effective and keep it fun" But in that case, it probably wouldn't be Crossfit and maintain the same mass appeal.
  • bugsense 12y ago
    Just listen to your body, if the weight is too much remove, if the reps are too many take your time or do less. If you want to show off or feel peer pressure then you shouldn't be crossfitting. I am doing CrossFit for the last 6 months and I always stop when I feel uncomfortable or in danger.
• skizm 12y ago
  First let's start with a lesson on affiliate vs franchise. Crossfit (the company) is an affiliate model. You pay $3k a year to use their name and $1k to be "certified". That's it. You can start whatever kind of gym you want now, as long as you don't bash the Crossfit name. Crossfit cannot enforce quality control measures as an affiliate which is why so many gyms are shit. If Crossfit enforced quality control, they would be pushing themselves into the franchise category and open themselves up to all kinds of liabilities. They don't want this so they stay hands off and just run the games each year. Back to the article... Welcome to every single Crossfit argument for the last 10 years. Coaches are bad, high rep oly moves are bad, everyone's form is bad, blah blah blah. The answer to every single complaint this guy has is that he is in a terrible crossfit gym with terrible coaches. Granted, there are a lot of terrible crossfit gyms out there and a lot of terrible coaches. That doesn't make crossfit in general bad. Crossfit is a sport, just like boxing, MMA, and skateboarding are sports. Sports come with inherent risks. Deal with it or don't do it. Some people do these sports with the main purpose of getting in shape, but also want to have a little fun since benching by yourself in the morning can get boring. They dumb down the movements to remove some of the risks but still capture the nature of the sport. This is exactly like people who take kickboxing classes at the YMCA. Kickboxing is dangerous, yet no one is arguing that we should cancel all kickboxing classes. It boggles my mind sometimes. Why are people so offended by Crossfit? Who cares what other people do to get in shape? There are people doing parkour on the top of buildings, jumping dirt bikes over the grand canyon, and snowboarding down mountain sides and no one cares about them. Why is Crossfit special?
  • personZ 12y ago
    >Why are people so offended by Crossfit? Who cares what other people do to get in shape? This same comment can be applied to the visceral rage that people feel towards elements of the technology world, where commentary on database technologies, programming languages, or testing approaches sees far more emotion that it reasonably should. In all cases I think it is a facet of attaching your ego to an opinion. If you have stated or believe x, when people do y it seems like a personal affront that needs to be confronted. People get far too invested in these sorts of arguments, and grow increasingly agitated over inconsequential decisions of others that otherwise have absolutely no impact on their life.
• DennisP 12y ago
  I'm wondering whether CrossFit's approach is especially hard on the heart. A friend of mine, in his mid 40s, had been working out for a year, then went to his first CrossFit class. At home afterwards he laid down for a nap, had a heart attack, and died. It's entirely possible that it was going to happen anyway, but for us older folks maybe a little extra caution is warranted for this type of exercise.
• omegaham 12y ago
  I deal with CrossFit a lot, as a lot of my coworkers do it and my unit's PT seems to be going in that direction. 1. As said by other posters, CrossFit is huge. And it's not like McDonald's - there's a large amount of variation that's inherent in an organization that barely looks at its members. Instructors are free to come up with whatever program they want. 2. Most personal trainers know absolutely nothing about actually training people. They know what works for them, but they have a very hard time in applying workouts to other people. The workout plan that fits a 220-pound male rugby player is not going to fit a 110-pound female volleyball player or a 350-pound couch potato who is trying to get into shape. Applying the same program to these three people is going to lead to disaster. 3. Crossfit is different from traditional weightlifting, which seems to attract a certain class of people. These people basically say, "I made this switch, and it's done wonders for me! The old paradigm is flawed, and you're an idiot for sticking with it!" You'll notice this incredibly annoying group of people whenever there's an alternative - religion, programming languages / frameworks, etc. 4. Apply #1, #2, and #3, - a very large organization with idiots who loosely fall under it, and a group of people who look down on anyone who isn't a member, and you get a group of people who are really, really easy to hate. And, to some extent, it's completely true. You get the stereotype of the typical CrossFit user who won't shut the fuck up, makes fun of people who go to "regular" gyms, and doesn't actually know what he's talking about. It leads to the jokes of "The first rule of CrossFit is to talk about CrossFit" and "A CrossFit workout isn't complete until you post it on Facebook." My own experience with CrossFit is that some parts are perfectly fine; there's absolutely nothing wrong with circuit courses, and there's nothing wrong with explosive movement. The problem is when you start doing exercises that require lots of weight and proper form and then CrossFit them - doing as many reps as possible as quickly as you can. Push-ups? Go for it. Burpees? Be careful, but go for it. Snatch, deadlifts, and pull-ups[1]? No, and run far far away before you tear your rotator cuff. The last thing is that CrossFit doesn't seem to have a goal in mind. As Mark Rippetoe states, "Exercise is physical activity for its own sake, a workout done for the effect it produces today, during the workout or right after you're through. Training is physical activity done with a longer-term goal in mind, the constituent workouts of which are specifically designed to produce that goal."[2] This is supremely important. Even someone whose goal is as simple as "Lose weight" and "Look more muscular" needs a training goal, not an exercise goal. CrossFit doesn't seem to deliver that. They talk about their goal being all-around fitness, but they don't have a good methodology for doing so. Take a look at what decathletes, strongmen, and even the CrossFit Games athletes are doing - it certainly isn't CrossFit. That, in and of itself, should let you know that something is badly wrong. [1]http://cdn.styleforum.net/3/37/314x314px-LL-375a6e39_TooBO.gif http://cdn.styleforum.net/3/37/314x314px-LL-375a6e39_TooBO.g... [2]http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-t...
• rrosen326 12y ago
  I'm an ex-crossfitter and thought this and the Rippetoe article mentioned were excellent. They have the ring of truth. I loved Crossfit, miss it, and yet probably won't go back. It wasn't the suffering - that was a positive. It wasn't the injuries - I had chronic shoulder pain that ultimately led to a torn bicep tendon during a set of high-rep cleans for time (of course). The problem was one that Rippetoe mentioned - I just wasn't improving. I suffered extravagantly. Most days I was prostrate on the floor. Many days took me hours till I wasn't nauseous. But I just wasn't getting better. I actually switched to Rippetoe's Starting Strength program and now Wenders 531 and have made steady progress (on strength, at least). So Crossfit was super fun, but didn't work for me. But the weird thing is that there were many INCREDIBLE athletes in my gym. They were SUPER fit. And they got that way doing Crossfit. So somehow this random variation of high-effort work does work for some people. Another challenge is what to do if you want to improve but not do Crossfit? There are 3-5 CF gyms within 15 minutes of my house. There are a couple of lame normal gyms. My old CF gym had world-class knowledgeable instructors. I have not been able to find a replacement. And while learning from a book like Starting Strength is ok at the beginning, eventually you need expert help. CF is easy to find. World class strength coaches for the recreational athlete are not.
• paltman 12y ago
  I think it's a mistake to apply one-size-fits-all advice to CrossFit. Can it be dangerous? Sure. Can it work well if you are not an idiot? Sure. Bottom line is, you, as the athlete, must listen to his body first and foremost. Push through soreness, sure. But acute pain? No way. The problem is, perhaps, that non-athletes come into CrossFit and haven't learned the difference and are not coached on the difference. As a former college athlete (football), that nuance had become second nature to me and therefore I know when to use the coaching prompts to push through to motivate me and I also know when to ignore them because I feel a potential injury coming or realize my form is breaking down. I think part of the problem might lie in how easy it is to become CrossFit certified, not with the regimes themselves.
• micro_cam 12y ago
  The popularity of cross fit can be explained, at least in part, because it promises to cram an extremely effective workout into a short period of time that is easy to fit into ones day using short intense intervals and paired opposition exercises. It is almost presented as a hack to get fit in a small amount of time (and is not, to me, out of place on hacker news). Setting aside the idea that the culture can contribute to people doing exercises wrong and risking injury the debate over cross fit become about weather short, intense, interval workouts are effective. Famed alpine climber (and trainer to the stars of the movie 300) Mark Twight was an early proponent of the cross fit style work outs but has since returned to including longer endurance style workouts in his programs. He stated in an article titled something like "There is no free lunch" that he saw initial gains from the cross fit style but that endurance began to suffer seriously after 18 months. [1] Another great climber/multi sports athlete Will Gadd has a number of posts and articles on cross fit and is generally a fan but uses it between sports specific training and with more emphasis on correct form and less on time. [2] A balanced conclusion would seem to be that cross fit style work outs are better then nothing, can be effective as part of a large training plan even for serious athletes but that we should be aware of the risks of injury and must take personal responsibility for doing exercises correctly. And should still find time to get out for long hikes, bike rides etc if we are interested in having true all day endurance fitness. [1] The article has since disappeared from his "Gym Jones" website but excerpts can be found here: http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2008/07/intervals-for-endurance.html http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2008/07/intervals-f... http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5963 http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5963 [2]http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2009/11/congrats-to-gm-crossfit-training-from.html http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2009/11/congrats-to-gm-crossf... http://willgadd.com/injury-and-a-few-crossfit-mods-as-a-result-planes/ http://willgadd.com/injury-and-a-few-crossfit-mods-as-a-resu...
  • irv 12y ago
    That Marc Twight article appears in the recently published book "Training for the new alpinism" by Steve House. Seriously recommended.
• jasallen 12y ago
  While I agree with the end sentiment "Crossfit is not a great program" I've got several problems with this article. 1) A lot of discussion of being sore. Sure one of the first things mentioned is "I've been sore before", but then we move on to more complaining about it. That is a natural part of doing any new movements, no matter how in shape you are overall. 2) No appreciation of the value of high rep movements. True, they are not good for hypertrophy (probably, even there the research is shakey whether low and high should be mixed), but they are good for building connective tissue strength, for burning calories, for increasing range of motion in a movement, for bone density... 3) Author links a balanced WebMD article but the link text implies it fully agrees with the negativity. 4) Article doesn't talk much about joint issues which are probably the biggest concern a lot people have with crossfit movements. The violence of many of the movement can lead to muscle and connective tissue problems, but those heal and are obvious. So, what are my issues with Crossfit? 1) Quality control. The excuse of crossfitters to "just find a better gym, they aren't all like that" is inadequate. Its a single program and a single franchise making money off each gym-goer, not an abstract concept like say HIIT. Ask Krispy Kreme or Quiznos how the no-quality control franchise theory works. 2) They rely on joint stability and momentum as much or more than on muscle. You are simply getting no benefit from that. 3) The movements are violent unnecessarily, this I agree with the author on. The joint reliance, the tugging at muscles and tendons, are all high risk for injury. While there are things that type of work can build that regular weight training cannot, the risk/reward is only worth it for people with specific training needs and doing specifically valuable movements. Kettle bells and kipping pull ups are pretty much never as valuable as good mornings, dead lifts, assisted pullups, and lat pulldowns. Clean and jerk has valuable movements taken separately, but combines them with high joint risk moves in between.
  • Retric 12y ago
    Healthy exercise is something you recover from quickly. If your dead the next day chances are you did more harm than good. When learning a new technique your better off using 1/2 the weight and 1/2 the reps than pushing yourself because avoiding injury is worth far more in the long run than pushing your self.
    • 12y ago
• eshvk 12y ago
  Crossfit was my first introduction to Weight lifting. In that sense, I am very grateful to CrossFit. However, the process of learning form is incredibly hard. I went to one of the best Crossfit boxes in SF and while I have complete faith that they did emphasize good form, being overwhelmed by the number of new things I had to learn while maintaing good form was too much for me. This came to a culmination where I hurt my knee while doing fast reps of deadlifts. Since then, I follow my own program of mixing strength and cardio-vascular activity. It took me two years to learn good form. And good form is really really hard to learn. Mainly because you have to go beyond prescriptive advice from books, coaches or the internet and find out what works well with your body. For example, I have relatively long femurs and a narrow squat stance ends up creating additional pressure on my knees. It took me a long fucking time to get over the prescriptive instructions that one's squat stance has to be shoulder width. Another thing that I personally realized was that very few people understand the principles behind a fitness goal as opposed to cargo cult practices. For example, for a long time, I thought that the only way to build strength was to do barbell exercises. On the other hand, there is a place for machines. This surprised me. Especially since the internet (bodybuilding.com/reddit) seem to chant about how anyone who doesn't do barbells is doomed. Also, learn the limits of your body. If you are not 17 and filled with natural testosterone or pump your body with steroids, it is going to be hard for you to achieve the kind of transformations that a lot of people appear to achieve. As you grow older, your body just doesn't want to keep gaining muscle.
  • mscarborough 12y ago
    Deadlifts and compound lifts in general should not be done for speed. If your CF were telling you that is good, then very certainly they were not teaching good form. Form isn't just how you lift, but can you maintain that form through the exercise? I did CF for a while but stopped. After a few friends got hurt and another friend told me straight out "this is stupid", I realized how halfass thrown-together the workouts are. That "100 pullups" video recently really put it into perspective.
• socrates1998 12y ago
  I have always said people like and do Crossfit not for the workout, but for the atmosphere. It's a subpar workout done in an unsafe manner, but they have created a strangely cult-like culture that people are dying to be a part of. People want to be a part of something that is "cool" and "advanced". This is the primary draw of Crossfit. And the girls.
• jttam 12y ago
  I am an injured crossfitter. I herniated my L4 vertebrae's disc, and I will likely never be the same. That being said I also used to be a 305 pound man who became a 192 pound man on Crossfit and its concepts. I have never been a "zealot" but I do have some problems with this article. My problems with this article are multiple, but the big glaring one which people seem to be repeating here over and over again are that Crossfit level 1 certified coaches only "spend a weekend". They make it sound like these people literally came off the street never having done Crossfit before and got certified that weekend. Maybe that's true. But I've never met a person who took the level 1 let alone became a coach at a box that didn't already have a good chunk of time actually doing WODs and improving from them under their belt. They have gone through the discipline in their own practice and have decided coaching that would be something useful for them. Unlike NASM where you can read a book and get certified, there is a hands-on/lab teaching component. This should be lauded. And no, not everyone is a great teacher, and the best judgment is on the community to determine if someone is working or not. (I've seen Crossfit instructors be dismissed from boxes.) I would like the OP to quote some articles and provide some science around why the Crossfit HIIT/circuit style training is actually dangerous. I understand the concept, that when in fatigue doing additional work is dangerous, and that Crossfit encourages this at some level, but it's always on the discretion of the participant to put the bar down, to stop doing the pull-ups, and to stop where they got to that session in a WOD. The real challenge in Crossfit is not to leave it all out on the floor, it's to know when to stop leaving it. What Crossfit does that I see a lot of personal training and individual training programs neglect are concentrations on proper mobility, warm-up, and form. And this comes from a guy who started Crossfit basically near the worst possible shape you can. Another thing is I was able to study for a year+ with a multi-year Crossfit Games placing athlete, and they used Crossfit WODs to train. Pretty much exclusively. The volume was amped up for sure, but the same movements and the same formats. Maybe the really, really successful people don't do that? But the interviews I see with Rich Froning and Mikko Salo tend to basically say they do three workouts a day in the crossfit-style format. Metcons, endurance, strength. Oh well, I'm late to this party, but my $0.02.
• cyphunk 12y ago
  WTF, this is frontpage HN?
  • itsPeople 12y ago
    Yeah, I don't understand it either. And for the record, anything that incorporates unnecessary obscurity into the basic premise of its mystique as something "new" and "cool", particularly by way of acronyms and jargon is a clue that adherents are just wasting everyone's time by playing the exclusionary elitist card. Seriously. Does "Work Out of the Day" honestly deserve to be acronymed to "WOD"? I mean, for fuck's sake. It the exact same amount of sylables. Just sound it out: Duh Bull You Oh Dee (5 sylables) Work Out Of The Day (5 sylables) But, wow, I bet WOD saves so much time as a TLA when drawing UML diagrams on a whiteboard, and blogging about your awesome new rotator cuff injury (AKA: RCI), right?
• QuantumChaos 12y ago
  Many people have commented on the safety of deadlifts in the article. I believe that there is a cognitive bias towards attributing injuries to form as opposed to random chance. Suppose that even with perfect form, there was baseline injury rate (and the injury rate increased beyond this with bad form). It would be very easy to attribute any injury, ex-post, to bad form. Reasons for this might be that a person doesn't want to appear unknowable/unskilled, wanting a feeling of control over their future outcomes, or feeling guilt about not having accomplished their goals. When I injured my knee doing squats (patellofemoral tracking/pain), I related my symptoms to a doctor friend, who correctly diagnosed the issue, and commented that it usually happens when people try to squat too much weight. I was about to correct him that the weight in itself is not the issue, if perfect form is used. At that point I realized that the bias I described above might exist.
  • cthalupa 12y ago
    Well, of course you can injure yourself in you try to squat too much. But the squat is not a knee dependent movement, so if you injured your knee, you were not using proper form. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-rippetoe/squats-lifting-knees_b_4490749.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-rippetoe/squats-lifting-k...
• danielodio 12y ago
  I'm seeing lots of opinions from people who don't do CrossFit. Here's one from someone who actually is doing CrossFit: I'm a member at the CrossFit Palo Alto (CFPA) box (that's what we call the gyms, because they're typically a sparse box-shaped gym). I've also dropped in on other boxes across the country, which I do when I'm traveling. The #1 thing to know about CrossFit is that while it's a 'brand,' it's not a consistent experience between boxes. It's actually very, very different. Erin's post doesn't make a ton of sense to me because it's as if she's saying "I don't date men, because all men are jerks." Some men are, but some aren't. It's the same with CrossFit. I'm sure that the things she described actually happened to her at a CrossFit box, but they've never happened to me at CFPA. I've been to boxes where I wouldn't go back. But CrossFit at CFPA has been life changing for me as an entrepreneur. It's one hour, three times per week. I get a very high ROI off of those three hours of commitment. I've been at it for a year now and while I was intimidated when I first started, I've gotten to the point where I look forward to the workouts now. The thing that's great about CrossFit is how it makes the other things you do in your daily routine easier. I'm a new dad and I carry my daughter in a bjorn, which means I have to squat when she drops something and I have to pick it up. CrossFit has made squatting easy, for example. CrossFit can be disastrous if you don't know how to keep from pushing yourself harder than you should. Everything at CFPA is tempered with weight decisions that are very personal. I've never once felt pressured to go to a higher weight; if anything I was frustrated early on because the coaches wouldn't let me go as high as I thought I could. Some boxes likely aren't as good at monitoring that. United Barbell up in SF is good, as is Horsepower in LA. Those are the three boxes I've been to that I thought were very professionally (and safely) run. Hope that helps.
  • AndrewBissell 12y ago
    I've been a member at UB since they first opened their doors. Good form is absolutely their number one concern, and they do a great job of taking all the best parts of CF while not drinking the Kool-Aid. (I've known the coaches themselves to poke fun at HQ's more grandiose claims about CF from time to time.) They also apply more of a strength emphasis to their programming, which I think is far more helpful than the "hero WOD", 30-minute burnout workouts that tend to show up in more orthodox CF. The author's contention that her complaints apply to "EVERY SINGLE GYM THAT FOLLOWS CROSSFIT" is just uninformed over-generalization, made less convincing by being written in bold all-caps.
• jff 12y ago
  Here's a crossfitter who severed his spine with a poorly-done lift, be warned it's a bit disturbing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qc3kDCB7bA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qc3kDCB7bA Crossfit! http://i.imgur.com/AoClAei.gif http://i.imgur.com/AoClAei.gif Crossfit! http://i.imgur.com/uLWrijU.gif http://i.imgur.com/uLWrijU.gif Crossfit! http://i.imgur.com/s4GWEmj.gif http://i.imgur.com/s4GWEmj.gif And again! http://i.imgur.com/7gCoxY7.gif http://i.imgur.com/7gCoxY7.gif and again! http://i.imgur.com/uOXc113.gif http://i.imgur.com/uOXc113.gif Crossfit! http://i.minus.com/iZUsT11hiMbCz.gif http://i.minus.com/iZUsT11hiMbCz.gif Crossfit! http://i.imgur.com/MPSXRUT.gif http://i.imgur.com/MPSXRUT.gif Crossfitttttt! http://i.imgur.com/Y2yrqPS.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Y2yrqPS.jpg Crossfit! http://gifsoup.com/view3/4092663/crossssifttt-o.gif http://gifsoup.com/view3/4092663/crossssifttt-o.gif Crossfit! http://i.imgur.com/gs28aPU.gif http://i.imgur.com/gs28aPU.gif Crossfit! http://i.imgur.com/0iQG9fx.gif http://i.imgur.com/0iQG9fx.gif A lot of what you see in there is either officially encouraged ("kipping" = basically cheating at pullups/lifts/whatever for more reps with shit form) or arises from a total lack of proper training on anyone's part (the guy who just powers up the weight with his arms and back rather than using his legs) Remember, Crossfit: not even once.
  • nashequilibrium 12y ago
    This is no joke but i just couldn't help laughing! http://i.imgur.com/AoClAei.gif http://i.imgur.com/AoClAei.gif
  • omegaham 12y ago
    > http://i.imgur.com/gs28aPU.gif http://i.imgur.com/gs28aPU.gif I'm speechless. I genuinely am at a loss for words. Is that like a hack squat except with no legs? "Hey, you know how they have Romanian deadlift? Let's do that for hack squats! That'd be pretty cool, right?"
  • ChrisNorstrom 12y ago
    I'm a loss for words. That is disturbing. For people who don't workout and don't understand what's wrong with some of these. The form so terrible and dangerous you could easily kill and injure yourself for life. And they're getting none of the benefits of the exercises they're trying to do because they're not doing them correctly. Thank you for posting this. Crossfit => Death Wish Workouts™
• iblaine 12y ago
  The first rule of crossfit is to tell everyone that you are taking crossfit. I went to crossfit in the bay area. Seriously some of the most annoying people in the world.
• the_watcher 12y ago
  Not commenting on CrossFit, but the author makes some simply incorrect assertions (kettlebells aren't beneficial? Empirically untrue. Doesn't mean everyone has to do them, but that doesn't mean there is no benefit).
• AndrewBissell 12y ago
  One thing no one has really mentioned yet, which I will throw out as a major positive impact from CrossFit, is that it's often a member's first exposure to more paleo styles of diet. I've personally found that to be hugely beneficial in reorienting my attitudes toward fat and meat, which are still unfortunately (and baselessly) viewed as dangerous in both pop culture and mainstream diet orthodoxy.
• steffenhiller 12y ago
  Finally a better anti-crossfit post with details and references. My question: What’s a good alternative? I’ve been only to one crossfit gym for half a year (and stopped because I went to a place without a crossfit gym nearby, I plan to start crossfit again). I think I got lucky to have been at a good gym, and as others have pointed out, the author cannot simply assume all gyms are bad. Here’s my personal experience: - Before a WOD, we ALWAYS did a refresher on the form of the WOD’s exercises WITHOUT weights - The gym offered weekly special classes from professional weight lifters and gymnasts for working on form - Sometimes, at the end more often, there were 2-3 coaches for a group of around 5 - 15 that watched the form - I think we never did deadlifts within a WOD, only before as a separate exercise - In WODs with time-limited sets the coaches always said we can take a minute time out if we reach the limit of a set - I never saw coaches screaming “boot camp”-style - I didn’t like partner WODs as they pushed me too hard and therefore made me neglect my form. Those partner WODs were only done once a week, so I simply didn’t go at that day. Overall, my experience in terms of coaching and results was multiple times better than at any “normal” gym I went before.
• bmoresbest55 12y ago
  I am was a college basketball player and have played some professional ball as well. I lift on a daily basis and have been doing so (not daily) for just over a decade. I honestly don't know that much about CrossFit. I don't get caught up in all the hype of different weight lifting exercises or different name of workouts. The number one thing that I can gather from reading this article and understanding how people typically act when exercising, trying to make themselves better, is that they judge others harshly. Even the OP is quite harsh on CrossFit. She has so much "experience" because of her championships and whatnot but I, to a certain degree, have to disagree with her. Not because she is right or wrong but because of her lack of experience in CrossFit. She is telling others not to do it under any circumstances simply because she never experienced these workouts in her collegiate career. Maybe this is something new and better (probably not) but I do not like how she has given herself power to proclaim so many others wrong. Just as they would do to her if given the chance. I think the OP should have been more understanding or even more persuasive in her post. That, I feel, is a make better way to get people on your side. (Not that we are not all on the same side.) CrossFit on the other hand does not seem to be a proper vehicle for getting the masses in a proper routine. Trainers should not be deemed as such in a weekend and that is sad. However, as always people are lazy and do not read the fine print. This is a problem deeper than CrossFit or exercising in general. I guess overall my comment is here to say make your own path and earn it. Do not rely on others to do so and also if your do have experience and truly think your can help others become a trainer or coach (after YEARS of training) and help others reach their goals. Don't post an off-the-cuff article about how you are awesome and everyone else is not and expect things to change.
• blue11 12y ago
  This was probably the best critique of Crossfit that I've read so far. Personally, I've been doing Crossfit for 2+ years and I've got a lot out of it. In fact, I have been in the best shape of my life because of it. At the same time I've always had issues with some things. For one, the nutrition principles that they advocate, basically the Paleo diet, is quite questionable in my opinion (although not really harmful , since it's basically a low carbm, high protein diet). And, yes, there are lot of practices that predispose to injuries. In fact, I'm currently recovering from an injury that I am pretty sure I got at CF, although it wasn't the type of injury that you can pinpoint to a particular moment. Even though I believe that it was mostly my fault, because of bad form, and because of underestimating the damage for months and making it worse, at the same time it is true that the CF environment is such that it increases the chance of people injuring themselves. However, this and other articles criticizing CF don't really understand the appeal of CF to most of the people that go there. The criticism is usually coming from serious athletes (and I use the word broadly to include professional athletes, semi-professional, and people that have always been just good at sports). Guess what, most people are not athletes, they do not have the knowledge or the motivation to come up with a proper training program and execute it on their own, and they are easily discouraged when sports do not come naturally easy to them. Most people are like me, they want to show up 3 times a week, do whatever workout has been prepared for them, and have an instructor advise them on what their doing. There is not much out there that comes close to CF. There are two big strengths of CF: Variety and Accessibility. Variety: CF is an all around training program, which might be bad for professional athletes, but it's great for people who just want to be fit. Where else would you go if you wanted to "properly" train on your own? Regular gyms like 24-hour Fitness don't have some of equipment like climbing ropes, GHD sit ups, pull-up bars (they might have one for the whole gym), and they have limited areas for doing things like barbell squats. (There was recent story about a popular gym eliminating the squat frame because it was "intimidating".) Accessibility: CF welcomes _everyone_. The complaint that the WOD is one-size-fits-all is not quite valid. Any exercise can be scaled down appropriately for each member. That means reducing the weight, reducing the reps, exercise substitution (e.g, doing inclined push-ups for beginners, or doing 3 pull-ups & 3 dips instead of 1 muscle-up, etc.), reducing the workout length and so on. That's how everyone gets to do the WOD. This is a big deal when you are a beginner! Even if you can't do a hand-stand or a musle-up, there are other things you can do and actually make progress. An finally one other thing: price. Yes, CF membership is expensive, but it is also several times cheaper than a personal trainer, and if you go to classes that are 5-12 people you basically have a trainer when you need one. I've tried different things before, but nothing was as easy to follow or as effective as CF. Right now I'm kind of worried about going back to CF after I recover, as I realize that the chance of getting another serious injury is significant. But at the same time I don't see anything else that has all the benefits. I'd be kind of curious to hear if other people have found alternatives. Most of the suggestions so far are a long of the lines what a motivated athlete would do, but they don't work for people who just want to exercise casually for 5 hours a week and get a balanced workout.