7 ms·

I love this article. Despite the multitudes of news sources telling us about how commerce is now global and business is no longer tied to a place and the intern

by jfasi 12y ago

I love this article. Despite the multitudes of news sources telling us about how commerce is now global and business is no longer tied to a place and the internet is changing the world, there is still an ocean of enterprises of which we US-based-or-english-speaking technologists are ignorant. Take a moment to think about this: Alibaba is a huge company, growing in an absolutely enormous market, providing a pile of services, and most American technologists know nothing about it. Expand this thinking to countries: there are markets that are only just beginning to enjoy the degree of technological luxury the US and Europe enjoys. Who will serve them? These are people just like us, they have needs and desires much like ours. Who will satisfy them? If you're an entrepreneur, there are millions if not billions of people who are on the cusp of becoming your target market, and the dominant technological discourse and journalistic coverage gives you no insight into the market they occupy. Not the languages they speak, not the companies who would be your competitors, not the cultural differences that would make selling difficult. Nothing. I hope this article opens peoples' eyes to the fact that the US-based-or-english-speaking countries are soon going to be a relatively small portion of the world. We need news sources like this to practice the globalization sermon they all preach.

higherpurpose 12y ago
Yes, most Silicon Valley start-ups still seem very Silicon Valley/United States/Apple centric. That has worked well for them in the past, but now the opportunities are a lot bigger than just that market or target type of devices.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
jerf 12y ago
I'd suggest that the problem is that trying to serve a market 10,000 miles away simply doesn't work. Had the same people who started Alibaba stayed where they were but tried to build a US-centric company instead, I'm sure that we would not be talking about them now. You need to bootstrap from what you know. In fact, there's no guarantee this US expansion is going to work either. I'd also observe that people would often interpret a Silicon Valley company trying to build a solution for some other culture as arrogant, parochial, or both, so there's really no winning here.
e_modad 12y ago
I wasn't born in the United States but my experience has been that Americans - in particular our colleagues involved in the sciences/technology are not only aware of what's going on, but interested in what's going on globally. I find it ironic that you're criticizing Western technologists on an US-based, tech centric website, where this post and your comment were up-voted to the top. If anything, this hints that your comment may be incorrect. In my experience, American technologists are one of the most diverse fields (both in and out of academia) I've ever been a part of. I disagree with your characterization of the way US-based 'technologists' view the world. In my experience, almost every single technologist I've come into contact with is much much more well versed in what's going on globally. Also, I have to take issue with your exaggeration here. You're making a generalization. I know about Alibaba, of course. Most people I know also know about Alibaba. So don't say we "know nothing about it." This article was posted and voted to the top of the list on an English based website where the majority of the visitors are working in Western countries. Your comment seems to make some assumptions that I don't understand. When you say "Who will serve them? These are people just like us, they have needs and desires much like ours." Who is saying anything different? You seem angry with a group of people but it's generally not technologists that have the viewpoint you're addressing. As someone who wasn't born in this country and has found nothing but respect and openness from my technical colleagues, I have to say I'm pretty confused as to what you're referring to. It's certainly not the majority of North American/European technologists I've talked to.
- cantankerous 12y ago
  "Who will serve them? These are people just like us, they have needs and desires much like ours." And they will be served by people just like us, technologists.
cromwellian 12y ago
It's not exactly purely an aspect of Western companies ignoring China or localizing property for China that is the culprit here. The Chinese government also makes it difficult, especially in the realm of internet services, for Western companies to play. I know plenty of American technologists who are well aware of Chinese internet properties, how could they not, when disproportionately many American technologists are of Asian descent, but many of them have made the decision that it is preferable to run your startup in the relative unfettered chaos of Silicon Valley than to navigate the maze and minefield of considerations of running an internet service in China. I'm pretty sure Google would love to have another billion Gmail users or Google search users, or to have Google Play store available (for paid apps) in China. Do you think the fact that these services are blocked are because of ignorance?
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  Gmail technically isn't blocked in China, the GFW just messes with it sometime. Otherwise your comment is spot on: American companies don't compete in China not because they don't want to, but because they can't.
  - instoftech 12y ago
    Government regulation is one reason. But there are many other reasons (some are arguably more important), one of which being localization. Check out other Asian markets (South Korea, Japan, Russia) and you may notice something interesting: many western companies failed to excel there too, even though there are no strict regulations. eBay was not affected by GFW when they competed with Alibaba's Taobao marketplace a few years ago in China. eBay failed due to their own strategic mistakes.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      The biggest reason is that China is not a country ruled by fair application of law. To win in China, you have to be willing to bend the law as much as possible without getting slapped (or at least, just slapped on the wrists). American companies can't execute like that: if fuzzy application of Chinese law doesn't get them (either by getting slapped, or having to follow laws that their competitors don't have to), the American government anti-corruption laws will (it is illegal for American companies to participate in any bribery...we aren't even allowed to take Chinese or grad students professors out to lunch!). Facebook has done very well in South Korea and Japan. Russia is similar to China in the "rule of law" category.
nashadelic 12y ago
> there are millions if not billions of people who are on the cusp of becoming your target market My favorite quote in this regard is by William Gibson: "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed"
soAsian 12y ago
>I hope this article opens peoples' eyes to the fact that the US-based-or-english-speaking countries are soon going to be a relatively small portion of the world. We need news sources like this to practice the globalization sermon they all preach. LOL. I don't get how your comment is at the top. People in technology field know about it. Your question should be how China is blocking out other tech companies unless they are willing to share their user info or join a state-owned venture so they can learn your technology, process and know-how then push you out. You make it sound like no one from U.S. want China or other market. The FACT TO THE MATTER is how other countries is either making it extremely difficult for U.S. tech company to enter or corrupted to hell that you have to pay out of your ass in each and every step of the way to do business with them. This comment is the most retarded comment there is. PEOPLE IN TECH KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON!
- jiaweihli 12y ago
  Despite this poster's argumentative tone, they speak the truth. The tech scene in China is pretty limited due to tremendous government influence / interference. Heck, step 1 of setting up a foreign company in China is to bribe local authorities to poke a hole in the Great Firewall so it stops throttling your new office's VPNs.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    > China is to bribe local authorities to poke a hole in the Great Firewall so it stops throttling your new office's VPNs. Getting a direct line to the outside internet doesn't require bribing an official, nor is it illegal for a company to have a connection that doesn't go through the GFW (at least right now).
- tokenadult 12y ago
  Your comment could be shortened to Your question should be how China is blocking out other tech companies unless they are willing to share their user info or join a state-owned venture so they can learn your technology, process and know-how then push you out. You make it sound like no one from U.S. want China or other market. The FACT TO THE MATTER is how other countries is either making it extremely difficult for U.S. tech company to enter or corrupted to hell that you have to pay out of your ass in each and every step of the way to do business with them. and better fit the Hacker News guidelines, which strongly discourage personal insults and uncivil tone. P.S. In English, which is perhaps not your native language (in which case, welcome aboard, because we indeed need more participation here from outside the English-speaking world), the usual idiom is "the fact of the matter" rather than "the fact to the matter." And on Hacker News, we rarely use chat-speak abbreviations like "LOL" (I learned that years ago when one of my comments that used abbreviation was downvoted heavily, even though I was literally laughing out loud as I typed the comment) and we only rarely write in all-capitals for emphasis. But your point is well taken.
chimeracoder 12y ago
> I hope this article opens peoples' eyes to the fact that the US-based-or-english-speaking countries are soon going to be a relatively small portion of the world. We need news sources like this to practice the globalization sermon they all preach. Agreed. It's not just in the tech sector, and not just in the commerce sector either. The US (and many English-speaking countries) tend to be incredibly US-centric and euro-centric in their worldview and news coverage. For example, right now, the world's largest democracy is holding the largest democratic election in the history of human civilization[0]. In the US, you'd be hard-pressed to find people who even know the names of the candidates[1]. Most people I talk to aren't even aware that it's happening - which is delightfully ironic for a country that has a history of proselytizing the gospel of democracy by using its military to install "democratic" governments abroad[2]! [0] For those interested in reading up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_general_election,_2014 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_general_election,_2014 [1] Sort of a trick question in parliamentary systems (as opposed to the presidential system in the US), but my statement applies whether you ask about the names of the two major parties or the names of their leaders. [2] Iraq is the example that most people are familiar with, though this tradition goes back a century or more.
- notahacker 12y ago
  To be fair, most Indians - including highly educated middle class Indians - probably don't have a clue about which parties several hundred million Europeans are about to cast their votes for later this month[1], or who's winning the South African election right now. [1]neither do several hundred million Europeans
- eshvk 12y ago
  > The US (and many English-speaking countries) tend to be incredibly US-centric and euro-centric in their worldview and news coverage. For example, right now, the world's largest democracy is holding the largest democratic election in the history of human civilization[0]. I find this attitude very weird. Every time I encounter it in the real world, it comes off as a humble brag. As in, oh the rest of the west is so ignorant and dumb, me? I know all about your culture. From my experience, huge demographics of people around the world don't really care about what happens outside their tribes. On the other hand, no one goes around chiding say Indian villagers on why they are not more aware of the complex inter-dynamics of the current Russian-European conflict. Somehow expecting everyone to be aware of your favorite world topic appears to be the same equivalent of assuming that everyone that writes code be well versed in whatever stack you are familiar in.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
onewaystreet 12y ago
Ignorance isn't the problem. The problem is the Chinese government. The current reality of doing business in China: If you aren't Chinese, don't bother.
bobbles 12y ago
> Who will satisfy them? From the sounds of it, Alibaba has it covered
jonnathanson 12y ago
"If you're an entrepreneur, there are millions if not billions of people who are on the cusp of becoming your target market..." US entrepreneurs have a shot, but they'll be a day late and a dollar short in many of the more developed international markets right now. Especially in Asia, where local equivalents to all of these majors services have been around for about as long as Alibaba has. Not every market is as dominated by a handful of major tech giants as China's (Alibaba, Tencent, etc.). But most markets with widespread internet coverage and smartphone usage have their domestic megaplayers. That's not to say these markets can't be penetrated. But we should realize that the world hasn't exactly held its breath waiting for our tech's arrival. It's been busy. I agree that the US media haven't done much to cover these markets. But a lot of people who've done business overseas, particularly in mobile, have experienced them. American entrepreneurs have had the luxury to focus exclusively (or at least predominantly) on the American market for decades, because it's a huge and affluent market. But I agree; there are enormous opportunities abroad. Not many of them are blue oceans anymore, though. One enormous challenge with developing technologies for truly global audiences is that the infrastructure, culture, and socioeconomic reality of most countries varies enormously. There isn't a homogeneous global consumer base, so much as a global consumer base fragmented by local idiosyncrasies. Navigating these is tricky, but worthwhile.
michaelrbock 12y ago
This is a great point. One example of a company doing this is Rocket Internet (http://www.rocket-internet.de/ http://www.rocket-internet.de/), a Germany-based "internet accelerator" that brings tech companies and services to developing/underserved markets. Some of their properties include foodpanda (http://www.foodpanda.com/ http://www.foodpanda.com/, Grubhub/Seamless for SE Asia, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Africa, and Latin America), easyTaxi (http://www.easytaxi.com/ http://www.easytaxi.com/, the world's largest taxi booking app), Lazada (http://www.lazada.com/ http://www.lazada.com/, Amazon for Indonesia and SE Asia). They've raised over $4b and created over 20,000 jobs since they started in 2007. Pretty ingenious.

by jfasi 12y ago

higherpurpose 12y ago

Yes, most Silicon Valley start-ups still seem very Silicon Valley/United States/Apple centric. That has worked well for them in the past, but now the opportunities are a lot bigger than just that market or target type of devices.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

jerf 12y ago

I'd suggest that the problem is that trying to serve a market 10,000 miles away simply doesn't work. Had the same people who started Alibaba stayed where they were but tried to build a US-centric company instead, I'm sure that we would not be talking about them now. You need to bootstrap from what you know. In fact, there's no guarantee this US expansion is going to work either. I'd also observe that people would often interpret a Silicon Valley company trying to build a solution for some other culture as arrogant, parochial, or both, so there's really no winning here.

e_modad 12y ago

I wasn't born in the United States but my experience has been that Americans - in particular our colleagues involved in the sciences/technology are not only aware of what's going on, but interested in what's going on globally. I find it ironic that you're criticizing Western technologists on an US-based, tech centric website, where this post and your comment were up-voted to the top. If anything, this hints that your comment may be incorrect. In my experience, American technologists are one of the most diverse fields (both in and out of academia) I've ever been a part of. I disagree with your characterization of the way US-based 'technologists' view the world. In my experience, almost every single technologist I've come into contact with is much much more well versed in what's going on globally. Also, I have to take issue with your exaggeration here. You're making a generalization. I know about Alibaba, of course. Most people I know also know about Alibaba. So don't say we "know nothing about it." This article was posted and voted to the top of the list on an English based website where the majority of the visitors are working in Western countries. Your comment seems to make some assumptions that I don't understand. When you say "Who will serve them? These are people just like us, they have needs and desires much like ours." Who is saying anything different? You seem angry with a group of people but it's generally not technologists that have the viewpoint you're addressing. As someone who wasn't born in this country and has found nothing but respect and openness from my technical colleagues, I have to say I'm pretty confused as to what you're referring to. It's certainly not the majority of North American/European technologists I've talked to.

cantankerous 12y ago
"Who will serve them? These are people just like us, they have needs and desires much like ours." And they will be served by people just like us, technologists.

cromwellian 12y ago

It's not exactly purely an aspect of Western companies ignoring China or localizing property for China that is the culprit here. The Chinese government also makes it difficult, especially in the realm of internet services, for Western companies to play. I know plenty of American technologists who are well aware of Chinese internet properties, how could they not, when disproportionately many American technologists are of Asian descent, but many of them have made the decision that it is preferable to run your startup in the relative unfettered chaos of Silicon Valley than to navigate the maze and minefield of considerations of running an internet service in China. I'm pretty sure Google would love to have another billion Gmail users or Google search users, or to have Google Play store available (for paid apps) in China. Do you think the fact that these services are blocked are because of ignorance?

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Gmail technically isn't blocked in China, the GFW just messes with it sometime. Otherwise your comment is spot on: American companies don't compete in China not because they don't want to, but because they can't.
- instoftech 12y ago
  Government regulation is one reason. But there are many other reasons (some are arguably more important), one of which being localization. Check out other Asian markets (South Korea, Japan, Russia) and you may notice something interesting: many western companies failed to excel there too, even though there are no strict regulations. eBay was not affected by GFW when they competed with Alibaba's Taobao marketplace a few years ago in China. eBay failed due to their own strategic mistakes.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    The biggest reason is that China is not a country ruled by fair application of law. To win in China, you have to be willing to bend the law as much as possible without getting slapped (or at least, just slapped on the wrists). American companies can't execute like that: if fuzzy application of Chinese law doesn't get them (either by getting slapped, or having to follow laws that their competitors don't have to), the American government anti-corruption laws will (it is illegal for American companies to participate in any bribery...we aren't even allowed to take Chinese or grad students professors out to lunch!). Facebook has done very well in South Korea and Japan. Russia is similar to China in the "rule of law" category.

nashadelic 12y ago

> there are millions if not billions of people who are on the cusp of becoming your target market My favorite quote in this regard is by William Gibson: "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed"

soAsian 12y ago

>I hope this article opens peoples' eyes to the fact that the US-based-or-english-speaking countries are soon going to be a relatively small portion of the world. We need news sources like this to practice the globalization sermon they all preach. LOL. I don't get how your comment is at the top. People in technology field know about it. Your question should be how China is blocking out other tech companies unless they are willing to share their user info or join a state-owned venture so they can learn your technology, process and know-how then push you out. You make it sound like no one from U.S. want China or other market. The FACT TO THE MATTER is how other countries is either making it extremely difficult for U.S. tech company to enter or corrupted to hell that you have to pay out of your ass in each and every step of the way to do business with them. This comment is the most retarded comment there is. PEOPLE IN TECH KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON!

jiaweihli 12y ago
Despite this poster's argumentative tone, they speak the truth. The tech scene in China is pretty limited due to tremendous government influence / interference. Heck, step 1 of setting up a foreign company in China is to bribe local authorities to poke a hole in the Great Firewall so it stops throttling your new office's VPNs.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  > China is to bribe local authorities to poke a hole in the Great Firewall so it stops throttling your new office's VPNs. Getting a direct line to the outside internet doesn't require bribing an official, nor is it illegal for a company to have a connection that doesn't go through the GFW (at least right now).
tokenadult 12y ago
Your comment could be shortened to Your question should be how China is blocking out other tech companies unless they are willing to share their user info or join a state-owned venture so they can learn your technology, process and know-how then push you out. You make it sound like no one from U.S. want China or other market. The FACT TO THE MATTER is how other countries is either making it extremely difficult for U.S. tech company to enter or corrupted to hell that you have to pay out of your ass in each and every step of the way to do business with them. and better fit the Hacker News guidelines, which strongly discourage personal insults and uncivil tone. P.S. In English, which is perhaps not your native language (in which case, welcome aboard, because we indeed need more participation here from outside the English-speaking world), the usual idiom is "the fact of the matter" rather than "the fact to the matter." And on Hacker News, we rarely use chat-speak abbreviations like "LOL" (I learned that years ago when one of my comments that used abbreviation was downvoted heavily, even though I was literally laughing out loud as I typed the comment) and we only rarely write in all-capitals for emphasis. But your point is well taken.

chimeracoder 12y ago

> I hope this article opens peoples' eyes to the fact that the US-based-or-english-speaking countries are soon going to be a relatively small portion of the world. We need news sources like this to practice the globalization sermon they all preach. Agreed. It's not just in the tech sector, and not just in the commerce sector either. The US (and many English-speaking countries) tend to be incredibly US-centric and euro-centric in their worldview and news coverage. For example, right now, the world's largest democracy is holding the largest democratic election in the history of human civilization[0]. In the US, you'd be hard-pressed to find people who even know the names of the candidates[1]. Most people I talk to aren't even aware that it's happening - which is delightfully ironic for a country that has a history of proselytizing the gospel of democracy by using its military to install "democratic" governments abroad[2]! [0] For those interested in reading up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_general_election,_2014 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_general_election,_2014 [1] Sort of a trick question in parliamentary systems (as opposed to the presidential system in the US), but my statement applies whether you ask about the names of the two major parties or the names of their leaders. [2] Iraq is the example that most people are familiar with, though this tradition goes back a century or more.

notahacker 12y ago
To be fair, most Indians - including highly educated middle class Indians - probably don't have a clue about which parties several hundred million Europeans are about to cast their votes for later this month[1], or who's winning the South African election right now. [1]neither do several hundred million Europeans
eshvk 12y ago
> The US (and many English-speaking countries) tend to be incredibly US-centric and euro-centric in their worldview and news coverage. For example, right now, the world's largest democracy is holding the largest democratic election in the history of human civilization[0]. I find this attitude very weird. Every time I encounter it in the real world, it comes off as a humble brag. As in, oh the rest of the west is so ignorant and dumb, me? I know all about your culture. From my experience, huge demographics of people around the world don't really care about what happens outside their tribes. On the other hand, no one goes around chiding say Indian villagers on why they are not more aware of the complex inter-dynamics of the current Russian-European conflict. Somehow expecting everyone to be aware of your favorite world topic appears to be the same equivalent of assuming that everyone that writes code be well versed in whatever stack you are familiar in.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

onewaystreet 12y ago

Ignorance isn't the problem. The problem is the Chinese government. The current reality of doing business in China: If you aren't Chinese, don't bother.

bobbles 12y ago

> Who will satisfy them? From the sounds of it, Alibaba has it covered

jonnathanson 12y ago

"If you're an entrepreneur, there are millions if not billions of people who are on the cusp of becoming your target market..." US entrepreneurs have a shot, but they'll be a day late and a dollar short in many of the more developed international markets right now. Especially in Asia, where local equivalents to all of these majors services have been around for about as long as Alibaba has. Not every market is as dominated by a handful of major tech giants as China's (Alibaba, Tencent, etc.). But most markets with widespread internet coverage and smartphone usage have their domestic megaplayers. That's not to say these markets can't be penetrated. But we should realize that the world hasn't exactly held its breath waiting for our tech's arrival. It's been busy. I agree that the US media haven't done much to cover these markets. But a lot of people who've done business overseas, particularly in mobile, have experienced them. American entrepreneurs have had the luxury to focus exclusively (or at least predominantly) on the American market for decades, because it's a huge and affluent market. But I agree; there are enormous opportunities abroad. Not many of them are blue oceans anymore, though. One enormous challenge with developing technologies for truly global audiences is that the infrastructure, culture, and socioeconomic reality of most countries varies enormously. There isn't a homogeneous global consumer base, so much as a global consumer base fragmented by local idiosyncrasies. Navigating these is tricky, but worthwhile.

michaelrbock 12y ago

This is a great point. One example of a company doing this is Rocket Internet (http://www.rocket-internet.de/ http://www.rocket-internet.de/), a Germany-based "internet accelerator" that brings tech companies and services to developing/underserved markets. Some of their properties include foodpanda (http://www.foodpanda.com/ http://www.foodpanda.com/, Grubhub/Seamless for SE Asia, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Africa, and Latin America), easyTaxi (http://www.easytaxi.com/ http://www.easytaxi.com/, the world's largest taxi booking app), Lazada (http://www.lazada.com/ http://www.lazada.com/, Amazon for Indonesia and SE Asia). They've raised over $4b and created over 20,000 jobs since they started in 2007. Pretty ingenious.