11 ms·

This Tower Pulls Drinking Water Out of Thin Air

147 points by ColdHawaiian 13y ago

tonylemesmer 13y ago
Has anyone tested the long term viability? Contamination, dust, mildew, flies etc.? Seems like a good idea but I venture the water would need further processing. Still, looks like a better starting point than where many communities are now.
- ColdHawaiian 13y ago
  Yeah, I was thinking about whether or not bacteria and other harmful microorganisms could grow in the water that collected too. I suppose, if nothing else, it could be boiled before consumption.
  - stevewilhelm 13y ago
    In many impoverished areas, there is a high correlation between lack of clean drinking water and lack of fuel sources.
- ghshephard 13y ago
  As long as the water is reasonably clear, just leaving it in a plastic bottle in the sun for a day or so will get the water safe enough to drink. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection http://www.irinnews.org/report/79172/benin-sunshine-plastic-bottle-clean-water http://www.irinnews.org/report/79172/benin-sunshine-plastic-... And this water is not ground water - so all of the many, many normal types of ground pollution are being avoided.
  - bigbugbag 13y ago
    You're supposed not to drink water from a plastic bottle which has been exposed for some time to the sun.
    - harlanlewis 13y ago
      The amount of time matters. The 5 hours required for solar disinfecting is far less than the time a plastic bottle will degrade in the sun and contaminate the contained liquids. Polyethylene terephthalate (PET - commonly used for soda bottles) can withstand direct sunlight for 5 years. There's leeching occurring throughout the degradation, and I can't find any trustworthy research on leeched PET harm when ingested repeatedly over a lifetime, but a few hours in the sun is pretty far from the danger zone.
    - ghshephard 13y ago
      All things equal, I'd rather deal with a small risk associated with pollutants leeching from the bottle, than the much higher risk associated with diarrhea-causing organisms in the water.
  - tonylemesmer 13y ago
    I'm Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was referring to potential moss / buildup on the structure itself.
riffraff 13y ago
notice the design/idea is, AFAICT, from 2012 http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/84-projects/art/492-073-warkawater-2012?showall=&start=5 http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/...
ghshephard 13y ago
Something doesn't seen internally consistent in this article. We read about a device, that can be locally assembled, that, can draw up to 25 gallons of water a day (I would have been impressed with 1 gallon a day) - and, "In all, it costs about $500 to set up a tower...His team hopes to install two Warka Towers in Ethiopia by next year and is currently searching for investors who may be interested in scaling the water harvesting technology across the region. " Why would "two Warka towers" be a target for a year, when, on the surface, reading this - it would make sense to go install a thousand of them and see how they played out over a year. If this device really could pull, even 10 gallons of water a day for $500 cost, it would have zero problem attracting funding on that kind of tiny pilot scale.
- meric 13y ago
  I think it takes more than just money to setup the towers. The article mentions maintenance is a big problem for imported solutions, so they'll need to teach locals on how to maintain/build the tower. There aren't too many people who knows enough to build such a tower, so they cannot simply spend $500 * 1000 to get towers for 100 villages, since they need to first teach people to build it and second teach people in each village to maintain it. Perhaps, the first year the target is more than just 2 towers, but learning how to make the tower easier to maintain as well as learning how best to 'sell' the tower to locals.
  - ghshephard 13y ago
    Everything in the article suggests that this is something that can be done locally: "If the many failed development projects of the past 60 years have taught us anything,...it's that complicated, imported solutions do not work." "inexpensive, easily-assembled structure that extracts gallons of fresh water from the air. " "The structures, made from biodegradable materials, are easy to clean and can be erected without mechanical tools in less than a week. And 1,000 towers would be on the scale of "learning how to make the tower easier to maintain as well as learning how best to 'sell' the tower to locals." If this device was capable of pulling in more than 10/gallons of water a day for $500 capex (and cheaper at volume), I would expect to see millions of them installed across the african continent in just a few years. Heck - I'd expect to see them installed across the North American continent as well. Some of the crazy stuff we used to do to try and get 5 gallons/water a day when I was growing up - I spent two solid months hand digging a well that barely managed to deliver that much water a day. A $500 "Water Tower" would have been awesome.
davidw 13y ago
So does this one: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:LukeMoistureVaporator-MOSW.png http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:LukeMoistureVaporator-MO... The ones in the article look like they're cheaper, possible to construct with local materials, and importantly: more user friendly - you don't even need a droid that understands the binary language of moisture vaporators.
patchhill 13y ago
Are these not powered? How do these things overcome the laws of thermodynamics?
- GlennS 13y ago
  They are effectively solar powered, since they rely on a temperature difference.
  - stcredzero 13y ago
    Ubiquitous electrical outlets cripple 1st worlder understanding of physics. Film at 11.
shadowmint 13y ago
Here's a link that describes the technology behind it: http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2013/how-to-get-fresh-water-out-of-thin-air-0830 http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2013/how-to-get-fresh-water-out-of... ...and one showing the structure in detail: http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/84-projects/art/492-073-warkawater-2012?showall=&start=1 http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/... TLDR: Great for pulling moisture out of the air if the air already has a really high moisture content. Pretty much useless in other circumstances.
- bryanlarsen 13y ago
  According to the article, it's temperature differential that's important. So it works in the desert, which has 50 degree swings between day and night. Many places with high moisture content have much smaller swings in temperature, so it might not work as well in the jungle.
  - clhodapp 13y ago
    Alternately, the article is incorrect/oversimplifying. It's pretty easy to see that it is at least oversimplifying with a simple thought experiment: Suppose we were to place a Warka Tower in an airtight with a humidity of 0% (no water in the air) and with an air temperature of 120°F. Then suppose we were to drop the chamber temperature to 40°F. By all accounts, this is a huge change in temperature for a human-habitable region to undergo (an 80°F change), so the tower should produce a LOT of water. However, because the air in the chamber has so little water actually in it, very little water will actually be produced. Ultimately, what makes the tower work well is a large temperature change and a high humidity.
    - sitkack 13y ago
      Step 1, find 0% humidity, where are you going todo that where people are living? Strawman.
      - ghshephard 13y ago
zmguy 13y ago
I don't agree with not having local repairmen as being a real showstopper. Any new system requires training: fire building, hut building, brick making. They need to factor training into the roll out of the technology, and don't focus on training men, take the women and grandmothers, train them first. RE: The barefoot movement in India: http://www.ted.com/talks/bunker_roy http://www.ted.com/talks/bunker_roy Tell a mother she doesn't have to walk 6 hours for dirty water, she will learn to fix whatever is necessary given the right training and availability of tools/material.
- midas007 13y ago
  Agreed, it's probably the opposite. Folks that are struggling out of necessary tend to have respectable DIY artisans that are very resourceful and creative in the truest sense of hacker. (When you don't have much, your ability to think of creative solutions based on what you have becomes very acute.)
linhat 13y ago
Isn't the generated/collected water like condensed water free of any kind of salts etc. that would naturally occur in ground/drinking water, so shouldn't it be unsafe to drink large amounts of it (much like it is unsafe to drink large amounts of salt/sea water due to the saline imbalance)? I wonder how/if they address this?
- dfc 13y ago
  It is unsafe to drink sea water due to high salt content. Therefore, drinking water with no salt content is also unsafe. I do not understand that reasoning.
  - DanBC 13y ago
    Ultra pure water will leach salts from the body. This is dangerous. At least, that's what people suggest, I don't know if it's true.
    - tankenmate 13y ago
      It's called hyponatraemia; check it out at wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatraemia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatraemia
      - tankenmate 13y ago
        A downvote for a pure statement of fact?
    - midas007 13y ago
      It's not dangerous at all if there is sufficient salt balance in the diet. Heck, I drink DI water on a daily basis and have a low sodium diet replaced by potassium salt where possible.
  - taejo 13y ago
    That reasoning is not present in the comment you're replying to (it says "like" where you've read "therefore")
PavlovsCat 13y ago
Anyone know if anything became of this? The linked pdf 404's :/ http://www.gadgetnutz.com/2006/10/09/wind-traps-become-reality/ http://www.gadgetnutz.com/2006/10/09/wind-traps-become-reali...
jusben1369 13y ago
Sort of odd that it wants to go negative on other efforts. Doesn't really add to the story but seems to be all about a few cheap shots.
davidgerard 13y ago
WARNING: AUTOPLAY VIDEO. Flagged.
stuaxo 13y ago
Next: Another Tower Pulls Soup Out of Thick Air
jdkuepper 13y ago
The concept of air wells has been around for awhile, but it's good that they're able to keep the costs low and build it from local materials with local labor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_well_(condenser) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_well_(condenser)
sandy23 13y ago
Not just Africa, there are many places in India mainly the tribal villages where the women walk for more than 3 kms to carry 10 litres of fresh water.
- icefox 13y ago
  Heck, places in the U.S. need water, why start in Ethiopia where the trial costs will be higher?
  - midas007 13y ago
    If a prototype has been validated, go big fast with multiple concurrent efforts. The concerning detail is that the website lists this project as 2012. [0] Perhaps they were unable to get it working? 0 http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/84-projects/art/492-073-warkawater-2012?showall=&start=4 http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/...
stevewilhelm 13y ago
I am curious how a project like this, which has been around since July of 2012 [1], gets such an intense amount of media coverage all in a the last two weeks: Wired, Daily Mail, Smithonian, Engaget, Huffington Post, and now HN. [2] [1] http://s831.us/1qr8eNO http://s831.us/1qr8eNO [2] https://www.google.com/search?q=WarkaWater https://www.google.com/search?q=WarkaWater
- sitkack 13y ago
  Because of a PR push, nothing wrong with that.
joshdance 13y ago
Sounds great. Any evidence of this actually working?
- DanBC 13y ago
  Not sure about this actual device but mesh that captures dew that works of temperature differential does work and isn't controversial. Here's one good link pointing out the benefits and problems of fog harvesting. http://www.oas.org/dsd/publications/unit/oea59e/ch12.htm http://www.oas.org/dsd/publications/unit/oea59e/ch12.htm
spiritplumber 13y ago
“Bless the Maker and His water. Bless the coming and going of Him. May His passage cleanse the world. May He keep the world for His people. ”
midas007 13y ago
http://www.architectureandvision.com/attachments/article/492/GR_LF_PJ_073_120817_WP_01.pdf http://www.architectureandvision.com/attachments/article/492...
jotm 13y ago
This is a nice read on the subject: http://www.calvin.edu/academic/engineering/2011-12-team5/downloads/Team_5_Design_Report.pdf http://www.calvin.edu/academic/engineering/2011-12-team5/dow...
aaron695 13y ago
I think there's probably some big issues with this article. For $500 for 24+ Gallons a day even from a commercial perspective it'd have value in first world city settings during droughts for pretty gardens etc.
fit2rule 12y ago
Seems like something that just needs to be 100% open source, with designs freely available to the public. If it works so well, it really ought to be utterly free to construct, since it will have such a significant impact on peoples lives to be able to have such access to fresh water. So whats the problem here? Isn't this science free, already?

147 points by ColdHawaiian 13y ago

Has anyone tested the long term viability? Contamination, dust, mildew, flies etc.? Seems like a good idea but I venture the water would need further processing. Still, looks like a better starting point than where many communities are now.

ColdHawaiian 13y ago
Yeah, I was thinking about whether or not bacteria and other harmful microorganisms could grow in the water that collected too. I suppose, if nothing else, it could be boiled before consumption.
- stevewilhelm 13y ago
  In many impoverished areas, there is a high correlation between lack of clean drinking water and lack of fuel sources.
ghshephard 13y ago
As long as the water is reasonably clear, just leaving it in a plastic bottle in the sun for a day or so will get the water safe enough to drink. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection http://www.irinnews.org/report/79172/benin-sunshine-plastic-bottle-clean-water http://www.irinnews.org/report/79172/benin-sunshine-plastic-... And this water is not ground water - so all of the many, many normal types of ground pollution are being avoided.
- bigbugbag 13y ago
  You're supposed not to drink water from a plastic bottle which has been exposed for some time to the sun.
  - harlanlewis 13y ago
    The amount of time matters. The 5 hours required for solar disinfecting is far less than the time a plastic bottle will degrade in the sun and contaminate the contained liquids. Polyethylene terephthalate (PET - commonly used for soda bottles) can withstand direct sunlight for 5 years. There's leeching occurring throughout the degradation, and I can't find any trustworthy research on leeched PET harm when ingested repeatedly over a lifetime, but a few hours in the sun is pretty far from the danger zone.
  - ghshephard 13y ago
    All things equal, I'd rather deal with a small risk associated with pollutants leeching from the bottle, than the much higher risk associated with diarrhea-causing organisms in the water.
- tonylemesmer 13y ago
  I'm Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was referring to potential moss / buildup on the structure itself.

riffraff 13y ago

notice the design/idea is, AFAICT, from 2012 http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/84-projects/art/492-073-warkawater-2012?showall=&start=5 http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/...

ghshephard 13y ago

Something doesn't seen internally consistent in this article. We read about a device, that can be locally assembled, that, can draw up to 25 gallons of water a day (I would have been impressed with 1 gallon a day) - and, "In all, it costs about $500 to set up a tower...His team hopes to install two Warka Towers in Ethiopia by next year and is currently searching for investors who may be interested in scaling the water harvesting technology across the region. " Why would "two Warka towers" be a target for a year, when, on the surface, reading this - it would make sense to go install a thousand of them and see how they played out over a year. If this device really could pull, even 10 gallons of water a day for $500 cost, it would have zero problem attracting funding on that kind of tiny pilot scale.

meric 13y ago
I think it takes more than just money to setup the towers. The article mentions maintenance is a big problem for imported solutions, so they'll need to teach locals on how to maintain/build the tower. There aren't too many people who knows enough to build such a tower, so they cannot simply spend $500 * 1000 to get towers for 100 villages, since they need to first teach people to build it and second teach people in each village to maintain it. Perhaps, the first year the target is more than just 2 towers, but learning how to make the tower easier to maintain as well as learning how best to 'sell' the tower to locals.
- ghshephard 13y ago
  Everything in the article suggests that this is something that can be done locally: "If the many failed development projects of the past 60 years have taught us anything,...it's that complicated, imported solutions do not work." "inexpensive, easily-assembled structure that extracts gallons of fresh water from the air. " "The structures, made from biodegradable materials, are easy to clean and can be erected without mechanical tools in less than a week. And 1,000 towers would be on the scale of "learning how to make the tower easier to maintain as well as learning how best to 'sell' the tower to locals." If this device was capable of pulling in more than 10/gallons of water a day for $500 capex (and cheaper at volume), I would expect to see millions of them installed across the african continent in just a few years. Heck - I'd expect to see them installed across the North American continent as well. Some of the crazy stuff we used to do to try and get 5 gallons/water a day when I was growing up - I spent two solid months hand digging a well that barely managed to deliver that much water a day. A $500 "Water Tower" would have been awesome.

davidw 13y ago

So does this one: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:LukeMoistureVaporator-MOSW.png http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:LukeMoistureVaporator-MO... The ones in the article look like they're cheaper, possible to construct with local materials, and importantly: more user friendly - you don't even need a droid that understands the binary language of moisture vaporators.

patchhill 13y ago

Are these not powered? How do these things overcome the laws of thermodynamics?

GlennS 13y ago
They are effectively solar powered, since they rely on a temperature difference.
- stcredzero 13y ago
  Ubiquitous electrical outlets cripple 1st worlder understanding of physics. Film at 11.

shadowmint 13y ago

Here's a link that describes the technology behind it: http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2013/how-to-get-fresh-water-out-of-thin-air-0830 http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2013/how-to-get-fresh-water-out-of... ...and one showing the structure in detail: http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/84-projects/art/492-073-warkawater-2012?showall=&start=1 http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/... TLDR: Great for pulling moisture out of the air if the air already has a really high moisture content. Pretty much useless in other circumstances.

bryanlarsen 13y ago
According to the article, it's temperature differential that's important. So it works in the desert, which has 50 degree swings between day and night. Many places with high moisture content have much smaller swings in temperature, so it might not work as well in the jungle.
- clhodapp 13y ago
  Alternately, the article is incorrect/oversimplifying. It's pretty easy to see that it is at least oversimplifying with a simple thought experiment: Suppose we were to place a Warka Tower in an airtight with a humidity of 0% (no water in the air) and with an air temperature of 120°F. Then suppose we were to drop the chamber temperature to 40°F. By all accounts, this is a huge change in temperature for a human-habitable region to undergo (an 80°F change), so the tower should produce a LOT of water. However, because the air in the chamber has so little water actually in it, very little water will actually be produced. Ultimately, what makes the tower work well is a large temperature change and a high humidity.
  - sitkack 13y ago
    Step 1, find 0% humidity, where are you going todo that where people are living? Strawman.
    - ghshephard 13y ago

zmguy 13y ago

I don't agree with not having local repairmen as being a real showstopper. Any new system requires training: fire building, hut building, brick making. They need to factor training into the roll out of the technology, and don't focus on training men, take the women and grandmothers, train them first. RE: The barefoot movement in India: http://www.ted.com/talks/bunker_roy http://www.ted.com/talks/bunker_roy Tell a mother she doesn't have to walk 6 hours for dirty water, she will learn to fix whatever is necessary given the right training and availability of tools/material.

midas007 13y ago
Agreed, it's probably the opposite. Folks that are struggling out of necessary tend to have respectable DIY artisans that are very resourceful and creative in the truest sense of hacker. (When you don't have much, your ability to think of creative solutions based on what you have becomes very acute.)

linhat 13y ago

Isn't the generated/collected water like condensed water free of any kind of salts etc. that would naturally occur in ground/drinking water, so shouldn't it be unsafe to drink large amounts of it (much like it is unsafe to drink large amounts of salt/sea water due to the saline imbalance)? I wonder how/if they address this?

dfc 13y ago
It is unsafe to drink sea water due to high salt content. Therefore, drinking water with no salt content is also unsafe. I do not understand that reasoning.
- DanBC 13y ago
  Ultra pure water will leach salts from the body. This is dangerous. At least, that's what people suggest, I don't know if it's true.
  - tankenmate 13y ago
    It's called hyponatraemia; check it out at wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatraemia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatraemia
    - tankenmate 13y ago
      A downvote for a pure statement of fact?
  - midas007 13y ago
    It's not dangerous at all if there is sufficient salt balance in the diet. Heck, I drink DI water on a daily basis and have a low sodium diet replaced by potassium salt where possible.
- taejo 13y ago
  That reasoning is not present in the comment you're replying to (it says "like" where you've read "therefore")

PavlovsCat 13y ago

Anyone know if anything became of this? The linked pdf 404's :/ http://www.gadgetnutz.com/2006/10/09/wind-traps-become-reality/ http://www.gadgetnutz.com/2006/10/09/wind-traps-become-reali...

jusben1369 13y ago

Sort of odd that it wants to go negative on other efforts. Doesn't really add to the story but seems to be all about a few cheap shots.

davidgerard 13y ago

WARNING: AUTOPLAY VIDEO. Flagged.

stuaxo 13y ago

Next: Another Tower Pulls Soup Out of Thick Air

jdkuepper 13y ago

The concept of air wells has been around for awhile, but it's good that they're able to keep the costs low and build it from local materials with local labor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_well_(condenser) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_well_(condenser)

sandy23 13y ago

Not just Africa, there are many places in India mainly the tribal villages where the women walk for more than 3 kms to carry 10 litres of fresh water.

icefox 13y ago
Heck, places in the U.S. need water, why start in Ethiopia where the trial costs will be higher?
- midas007 13y ago
  If a prototype has been validated, go big fast with multiple concurrent efforts. The concerning detail is that the website lists this project as 2012. [0] Perhaps they were unable to get it working? 0 http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/84-projects/art/492-073-warkawater-2012?showall=&start=4 http://www.architectureandvision.com/projects/chronological/...

stevewilhelm 13y ago

I am curious how a project like this, which has been around since July of 2012 [1], gets such an intense amount of media coverage all in a the last two weeks: Wired, Daily Mail, Smithonian, Engaget, Huffington Post, and now HN. [2] [1] http://s831.us/1qr8eNO http://s831.us/1qr8eNO [2] https://www.google.com/search?q=WarkaWater https://www.google.com/search?q=WarkaWater

sitkack 13y ago
Because of a PR push, nothing wrong with that.

joshdance 13y ago

Sounds great. Any evidence of this actually working?

DanBC 13y ago
Not sure about this actual device but mesh that captures dew that works of temperature differential does work and isn't controversial. Here's one good link pointing out the benefits and problems of fog harvesting. http://www.oas.org/dsd/publications/unit/oea59e/ch12.htm http://www.oas.org/dsd/publications/unit/oea59e/ch12.htm

spiritplumber 13y ago

“Bless the Maker and His water. Bless the coming and going of Him. May His passage cleanse the world. May He keep the world for His people. ”

midas007 13y ago

http://www.architectureandvision.com/attachments/article/492/GR_LF_PJ_073_120817_WP_01.pdf http://www.architectureandvision.com/attachments/article/492...

jotm 13y ago

This is a nice read on the subject: http://www.calvin.edu/academic/engineering/2011-12-team5/downloads/Team_5_Design_Report.pdf http://www.calvin.edu/academic/engineering/2011-12-team5/dow...

aaron695 13y ago

I think there's probably some big issues with this article. For $500 for 24+ Gallons a day even from a commercial perspective it'd have value in first world city settings during droughts for pretty gardens etc.

fit2rule 12y ago

Seems like something that just needs to be 100% open source, with designs freely available to the public. If it works so well, it really ought to be utterly free to construct, since it will have such a significant impact on peoples lives to be able to have such access to fresh water. So whats the problem here? Isn't this science free, already?