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What is that makes the United States such an attractive place to immigrate to for people whose skill sets could take them almost anywhere in the world? (In othe

What is that makes the United States such an attractive place to immigrate to for people whose skill sets could take them almost anywhere in the world? (In other words, why is that successive sessions of Congress can basically count on lots of people desiring to live in the United States, thus setting up an environment in which immigration regulation is restrictive rather than open?) (I'm genuinely curious about this, as an American who has lived overseas--with the proper visas of course--for three years in the 1980s and for three years spanning the turn of the last century. I've only lived long-term in one other country, so I still could learn a lot more from all of you who participate here on HN about why people leave their country of birth, which is surely disruptive, to go to another country to live. What's the big deal about living in the United States?)

joe_the_user 13y ago
What evidence do you have that the US is an attractive place at all, relative to other advanced or semi-advanced nations? More applicants than places does not prove that much in a world of scarce jobs. People are dying, literally drowning in the Mediterranean, to get into Europe. As I know, people still apply to work in Qatar even as they engage in work practices that well be "nothing less than murder"in the process of constructing their World Cup stadiums. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup#Migrant_workers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup#Migrant_wor...
- balls187 13y ago
  Humans will seek work wherever there is work to be had. All that means is that there are jobs in Europe and Qatar.
- refurb 13y ago
  About 13% of the world's adults -- or about 630 million people -- say they would like to leave their country and move somewhere else permanently. For roughly 138 million people, that somewhere else would be the U.S. -- the No. 1 desired destination for potential migrants. The U.K., Canada, and France also rank among the top choices for potential migrants. http://www.gallup.com/poll/161435/100-million-worldwide-dream-life.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/161435/100-million-worldwide-drea...
  - sentenza 13y ago
    Your quote is fantastic, as it brings to light an important point: Language is an extremely important motivator for destination selection. The list contains the UK and France, but not Germany or the Netherlands.
- chulk90 13y ago
  We're discussing high-skilled immigrants. People trying to reach the southern European countries (especially Italy and Greece) or wanting to work in Qatar are a different kind of immigrants.
- thingylab 13y ago
  A pretty solid evidence is the consistently high number of people coming / trying to come to the US each year... Seriously, you wouldn't put up with all that immigration crap if it was not attractive. > People are dying, literally drowning in the Mediterranean, to get into Europe. Right. Don't you think that's an indication of proximity rather than attractiveness? (some) People from Africa might be poor and are dying to go some place else, but they're not stupid. They understand crossing the Mediterranean is easier than crossing the Atlantic...
- hnnewguy 13y ago
  >What evidence do you have that the US is an attractive place at all You don't have to look very hard to see that the US is still very attractive for migration: about 1 million people, legal, permanent, per year for almost 3 decades[1] (and 1.5MM "temporary"). For comparison, Germany had about 800k in 2011, France 150k, UK 500k. [1]http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2011/ois_yb_2011.pdf http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/immigrat...
  - pacaro 13y ago
    This document is hugely important to understand. Thank you for posting. I always found Table 6 to be the most interesting, particularly in debates about immigration — I have a green card as a 9 year long EB3 process (Employment Based, 3rd class - the CIS doesn't value Philosophy degrees as highly as engineering degrees!) To take the last year for which data are published, 2011 A partial breakdown of new Permanent Resident status issued—informally “green card” Family sponsored 206,585 Immediate relatives of citizens 209,984 Employment based 14,955 In round numbers for every green card issued on basis of employment, 28 are issued to family members of citizens. This is pretty much the inverse of popular understanding of immigration.
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      > In round numbers for every green card issued on basis of employment, 28 are issued to family members of citizens. This is pretty much the inverse of popular understanding of immigration. There are people that don't understand that the US immigration system is primarily family-based? I think lots of people think the motivation for immigration is largely economic (and that's also true, even for the family-based visas), but I don't recall encountering many people that had any mental model of the immigration system that didn't know that being allowed to immigrate legally was largely through family-based classes. Certainly, much of the public political drama centers around that fact (e.g., the whole "anchor babies" thing.) (Although "Family sponsored" is not, as you present it, necessarily family-of-citizen -- the family-sponsored grouping includes visa classes for family members of Permanent Residents as well.)
balls187 13y ago
> What is that makes the United States such an attractive place to immigrate to for people whose skill sets could take them almost anywhere in the world? That is a broad question. Probably because unlike most other countries, we're a nation of immigrants, and while our policies may not be perfect, we have empathy for people who want to move here, and work hard for a better life.
zizee 13y ago
85,000 people is a tiny amount of people all things considered. Australia had 129,250 placed for skilled immigrants in the 2011-12 period and that's with a population of around 10% of the US. I'm not saying that the US is not a popular choice for people wanting to immigrate, but I think that it is more that there is a good quality of life to be had, with the added bonus of being an English speaking country (which is the most popular choice as a 2nd language learn).
cloudhead 13y ago
Lets just say it's not about the country itself, but the companies based in the US. In other words, the opportunity to work on really interesting problems with the best people in the field.
conanbatt 13y ago
I can speak for Argentina in this case: first and foremost, an average entry-level programmer in argentina might make 600 dollars a month. There is no consideration for your degree in that regard. Second but not least, because ARgentina grows so much on outsourcing contracts, the quality of the job to do is poor and uncommitted. Product management in Argentina is almost non-existent. This means that the most likely job you will get is contracting-"do as the guy that pay exactly wants even if you know for a fact that there are better ways to do it" work. So, more pay + more interesting work is enticing enough. Also, having worked in the US gives you a halo if you come back.
- ycskyspeak 13y ago
  It makes sense to compare the purchasing power parity and not just the dollar amount. Argentina is an up and coming destination for tech folk but the standard of living and opportunities offered are not at par with the US (specifically the valley)
- wosos 13y ago
  Exactly this, in El Salvador for example your employment options grow an order of magnitude if you've any experience working in the US. Also, you have the possibility to learn about bleeding edge tech in situ.
ebiester 13y ago
There are only a few really good places to live for an educated worker. Japan, Australia, Western and Northern Europe, Canada, and the US. I will operationalize "good" as "an intelligent worker can make an exceptional living relative to their country of origin." Each of these places only take a limited amount of immigrants each year. Some are more difficult based on the national language -- learning Danish isn't more difficult than English or French, but there are fewer learning resources to do so. So, your best options for the greatest amount of opportunity is to learn English -- you have the UK, America, Canada, and Australia as potential landing spots. (This is, of course, not universal. Developing countries with French as a national language will prefer France, for example.) So, the answer is that it's a way out.
- JamesArgo 13y ago
  Canada will take anyone with an engineering degree.
  - avmich 13y ago
    What do you mean by "take"? Canadian employers aren't very familiar with a concept of working visa in practice - they prefer you to first have a permanent residence, then they can talk about hiring you. To get permanent residence, you have to pass the process, which is many months long. Am I substantially missing something?
    - refurb 13y ago
      I think the gp is referring to Canada's point system. As long as you have enough points, then you will be admitted into Canada.
      - avmich 13y ago
        But how long is the wait? In US, if - and that's a big if - you're lucky enough to win H-1b early April, you may start working early October. Is there anything as fast with Canada? Without employer agreeing to hire you even though you don't have a working visa - i.e., you have to apply for one?
smtddr 13y ago
>>What is that makes the United States such an attractive place to immigrate to for people whose skill sets could take them almost anywhere in the world? So, I'm highly critical of USgov but USA, with all its alleged faults, is still considered the "Land of opportunity" by a lot of people. If you have tech-skills and you need a country where the internet doesn't cost you a kidney-per-month(and barely works), electricity is reliably provided during core working hours; combined with the perception that Bay Area / Silicon Valley tech scene is where the money & smart people are at.... there you have it.
sbashyal 13y ago
As an immigrant, I believe that US education is the number one cause for most of this. I did my undergraduate degree from Nepal and came to US to go to Grad school. Most of the engineering course content is American and most of us end up being inspired by the pioneers - Dennis Ritchie, Linus, Bill Gates, John Carmack to name a few Once you are here, and have a degree, there are opportunities here that are not there back home and hence the interest in working visas. Consultancies are another catalyst - in cases where the candidates do not manage to get a job right out of school, consultancies act as a bridge where they file immigrant visas for the candidates and then help them find companies that are in need of their skills.
- kparaju 13y ago
  It's good to see someone else in HN from Nepal :) We are a rare bunch.
hibikir 13y ago
Money, and a corporate culture where being good at your job is, at least in some way, part of the equation. For instance, a programmer in Spain makes about a third as he would in the midwest, with the same cost of living. He'd also be able to find a job by having skills that fit what companies need, instead of being about being a good friend of the CTO's nephew. And that's a developed country in the EU. Imagine the same thing, in one of those places that have immigrants that move to Spain.
epynonymous 13y ago
several things: 1. stability of the political system 2. percentage of large companies that originate (i.e. google, facebook, vmware, etc) 3. open opportunities with respect to social class
sien 13y ago
Technically the title is a little misleading. The Australian E3 visa has not been filled. If you need skilled engineers think of seeing if you can recruit some Australians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa
- total 13y ago
  The title certainly is misleading, but a read of the short article clears that up pretty quickly considering they mention H-1B visas by name.
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  The E3 isn't equivalent to an H1B. It has many advangtages, but there's no path to permanent residency.
photon137 13y ago
Great universities. English as the primary language (great learning resources available for it all across the globe). Real economic mobility - you can really make it big if you're smart, persevering and slightly lucky. Who you know matters to a certain extent in all countries, but the significance of that factor is less in the US as compared to the other countries, in my opinion (others may disagree, of course).
msvan 13y ago
I live in Northern Europe. It's arguably superior to the US in many ways, but there are some things which we cannot get here. One thing is size. The US has 300+ million people, whereas my country only has a few million. All communities are smaller here; interesting things get here later or not at all (with bad localizations) because the market is too small. Things are tinier, quieter and get less traction. Another thing is that there is something of a cultural identity crisis going on. We cannot match the enormous cultural influence of the US, and so a lot of our culture is American. If you've ever talked to someone from Northern Europe and wondered "why does s/he speak English so well?" it's not because of school. One half of our cultural identity is located on the other side of the Atlantic, and we keep in touch with it mostly through backlit screens. The deluge of information and entertainment that has come from the US since it became a superpower has served as a really efficient marketing strategy. We're not terribly interested in moving to Oklahoma. We have been sold on New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles and other metropolises in the US, because that's what we read and hear about. These places are perhaps not better than Northern Europe to settle down and start a family in, but they certainly seem more exciting.
- NAFV_P 13y ago
  > Another thing is that there is something of a cultural identity crisis going on. We cannot match the enormous cultural influence of the US, and so a lot of our culture is American. I don't think that applies to music genres. I live in Gloucester, England which is practically in the middle of Jungle country.
- total 13y ago
  > ...and wondered "why does s/he speak English so well?" it's not because of school. As an American, I've always been surprised when conversing with people from other countries considering their usage of English is not bad and is far better than those that are American natives. However, also as an American, I'm not surprised by the lack of skill in regards to the English language that is present amongst the population here (I'll use 'amongst' if I want, Chrome) due to the general disregard for the language (as if using the wrong form of your/you're is really that difficult or unimportant). Edit: As is inevitable when one comments upon improper usage of a language, they tend to screw it up themselves. I have done just that. I will leave my mistake to commemorate it: "As an American, I've have always been..."
mkohlmyr 13y ago
(Personal opinion) It isn't the United States that's attractive. It's the tech-hubs within it. I would never seriously consider moving anywhere but a handful of cities / areas in the US. The eco-systems in those places are still years ahead of London or Berlin. I moved from Sweden to the United Kingdom to attend university for similar reasons. The university culture is different (much better) here, and there is more of a hub factor to the campuses, which offers many advantages socially and otherwise.
- purringmeow 13y ago
  I am an Eastern European living in Central Europe. I moved because University and because of the better living/work conditions. However, if I had the chance I would probably move to the US. Maybe CA, but I am still on the fence. The things stopping me are the super expensive health care, work-life balance and higher crime rates.
foolinaround 13y ago
the US is reputed to have the best engineering colleges, that attract the best talent.
voteapathy 13y ago
Well, the simplest answer is that incomes are way higher for certain positions, even for significantly less skilled work. I mean, engineers are a dime-a-dozen in China, but the pay is lower and STEM work is not nearly as glamorized as it is in the US right now. Doctors too. All the praise goes to business and financial managers. Of course, if you're an international trailblazing software-engineering guru, yeah, you'll get fantastic opportunities pretty much anywhere. However, even fairly low-level IT work in the US can feed a new family (depending on your geography, of course), which is not the case everywhere in the world. And with recruiters banging down peoples' doors throwing jobs in peoples' faces, it's no wonder foreigners want to stay in the US.
davyjones 13y ago
> What is that makes the United States such an attractive place to immigrate to for people whose skill sets could take them almost anywhere in the world? Unrestricted Jus soli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#Unrestricted_jus_soli http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#Unrestricted_jus_soli)
curiousDog 13y ago
To me it's the universities and the already existing multi-culturalism. Everyone here is an immigrant in some way. Also, multi-culturalism seems to be growing organically here in the U.S rather than being shoved down people's throats like in Europe. This leads to fewer instances of racism and a more accepting climate where every one has some degree of mutual respect. I don't think that's the case in Western Europe where from what I hear, refugees are being brought in huge numbers angering the local population. Last year, i visited Switzerland and Austria and was called nigger multiple times by random passers on bicycles whilst walking (and I'm not even black and pretty fair for an Indian guy). Fuck that shit.
serge2k 13y ago
Well I moved to Seattle from BC because i got offered more money with lower taxes and more interesting job.
xyzzyz 13y ago
What is that makes the United States such an attractive place to immigrate to for people whose skill sets could take them almost anywhere in the world? As a European who spent his last 3 summers in the US, and now participating in H1B lottery, my motivation is pretty simple: money, and also prestige stemming from working for a well-recognized tech company in the core of SV that will follow me when I get back my home country, or immigrate to some country I find more desirable. Spending few months in Bay Area and in Seattle made me pretty disillusioned about the whole "land of the free" thing, about equality and justice for all. It also made me concerned about my own personal safety, something I never ever felt back home. But for the salary, I find that Canada is in almost every way superior for immigration purposes, not to mention Germany, Switzerland, Denmark or Sweden.

joe_the_user 13y ago

What evidence do you have that the US is an attractive place at all, relative to other advanced or semi-advanced nations? More applicants than places does not prove that much in a world of scarce jobs. People are dying, literally drowning in the Mediterranean, to get into Europe. As I know, people still apply to work in Qatar even as they engage in work practices that well be "nothing less than murder"in the process of constructing their World Cup stadiums. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup#Migrant_workers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup#Migrant_wor...

balls187 13y ago
Humans will seek work wherever there is work to be had. All that means is that there are jobs in Europe and Qatar.
refurb 13y ago
About 13% of the world's adults -- or about 630 million people -- say they would like to leave their country and move somewhere else permanently. For roughly 138 million people, that somewhere else would be the U.S. -- the No. 1 desired destination for potential migrants. The U.K., Canada, and France also rank among the top choices for potential migrants. http://www.gallup.com/poll/161435/100-million-worldwide-dream-life.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/161435/100-million-worldwide-drea...
- sentenza 13y ago
  Your quote is fantastic, as it brings to light an important point: Language is an extremely important motivator for destination selection. The list contains the UK and France, but not Germany or the Netherlands.
chulk90 13y ago
We're discussing high-skilled immigrants. People trying to reach the southern European countries (especially Italy and Greece) or wanting to work in Qatar are a different kind of immigrants.
thingylab 13y ago
A pretty solid evidence is the consistently high number of people coming / trying to come to the US each year... Seriously, you wouldn't put up with all that immigration crap if it was not attractive. > People are dying, literally drowning in the Mediterranean, to get into Europe. Right. Don't you think that's an indication of proximity rather than attractiveness? (some) People from Africa might be poor and are dying to go some place else, but they're not stupid. They understand crossing the Mediterranean is easier than crossing the Atlantic...
hnnewguy 13y ago
>What evidence do you have that the US is an attractive place at all You don't have to look very hard to see that the US is still very attractive for migration: about 1 million people, legal, permanent, per year for almost 3 decades[1] (and 1.5MM "temporary"). For comparison, Germany had about 800k in 2011, France 150k, UK 500k. [1]http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2011/ois_yb_2011.pdf http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/immigrat...
- pacaro 13y ago
  This document is hugely important to understand. Thank you for posting. I always found Table 6 to be the most interesting, particularly in debates about immigration — I have a green card as a 9 year long EB3 process (Employment Based, 3rd class - the CIS doesn't value Philosophy degrees as highly as engineering degrees!) To take the last year for which data are published, 2011 A partial breakdown of new Permanent Resident status issued—informally “green card” Family sponsored 206,585 Immediate relatives of citizens 209,984 Employment based 14,955 In round numbers for every green card issued on basis of employment, 28 are issued to family members of citizens. This is pretty much the inverse of popular understanding of immigration.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > In round numbers for every green card issued on basis of employment, 28 are issued to family members of citizens. This is pretty much the inverse of popular understanding of immigration. There are people that don't understand that the US immigration system is primarily family-based? I think lots of people think the motivation for immigration is largely economic (and that's also true, even for the family-based visas), but I don't recall encountering many people that had any mental model of the immigration system that didn't know that being allowed to immigrate legally was largely through family-based classes. Certainly, much of the public political drama centers around that fact (e.g., the whole "anchor babies" thing.) (Although "Family sponsored" is not, as you present it, necessarily family-of-citizen -- the family-sponsored grouping includes visa classes for family members of Permanent Residents as well.)

balls187 13y ago

> What is that makes the United States such an attractive place to immigrate to for people whose skill sets could take them almost anywhere in the world? That is a broad question. Probably because unlike most other countries, we're a nation of immigrants, and while our policies may not be perfect, we have empathy for people who want to move here, and work hard for a better life.

zizee 13y ago

85,000 people is a tiny amount of people all things considered. Australia had 129,250 placed for skilled immigrants in the 2011-12 period and that's with a population of around 10% of the US. I'm not saying that the US is not a popular choice for people wanting to immigrate, but I think that it is more that there is a good quality of life to be had, with the added bonus of being an English speaking country (which is the most popular choice as a 2nd language learn).

cloudhead 13y ago

Lets just say it's not about the country itself, but the companies based in the US. In other words, the opportunity to work on really interesting problems with the best people in the field.

conanbatt 13y ago

I can speak for Argentina in this case: first and foremost, an average entry-level programmer in argentina might make 600 dollars a month. There is no consideration for your degree in that regard. Second but not least, because ARgentina grows so much on outsourcing contracts, the quality of the job to do is poor and uncommitted. Product management in Argentina is almost non-existent. This means that the most likely job you will get is contracting-"do as the guy that pay exactly wants even if you know for a fact that there are better ways to do it" work. So, more pay + more interesting work is enticing enough. Also, having worked in the US gives you a halo if you come back.

ycskyspeak 13y ago
It makes sense to compare the purchasing power parity and not just the dollar amount. Argentina is an up and coming destination for tech folk but the standard of living and opportunities offered are not at par with the US (specifically the valley)
wosos 13y ago
Exactly this, in El Salvador for example your employment options grow an order of magnitude if you've any experience working in the US. Also, you have the possibility to learn about bleeding edge tech in situ.

ebiester 13y ago

There are only a few really good places to live for an educated worker. Japan, Australia, Western and Northern Europe, Canada, and the US. I will operationalize "good" as "an intelligent worker can make an exceptional living relative to their country of origin." Each of these places only take a limited amount of immigrants each year. Some are more difficult based on the national language -- learning Danish isn't more difficult than English or French, but there are fewer learning resources to do so. So, your best options for the greatest amount of opportunity is to learn English -- you have the UK, America, Canada, and Australia as potential landing spots. (This is, of course, not universal. Developing countries with French as a national language will prefer France, for example.) So, the answer is that it's a way out.

JamesArgo 13y ago
Canada will take anyone with an engineering degree.
- avmich 13y ago
  What do you mean by "take"? Canadian employers aren't very familiar with a concept of working visa in practice - they prefer you to first have a permanent residence, then they can talk about hiring you. To get permanent residence, you have to pass the process, which is many months long. Am I substantially missing something?
  - refurb 13y ago
    I think the gp is referring to Canada's point system. As long as you have enough points, then you will be admitted into Canada.
    - avmich 13y ago
      But how long is the wait? In US, if - and that's a big if - you're lucky enough to win H-1b early April, you may start working early October. Is there anything as fast with Canada? Without employer agreeing to hire you even though you don't have a working visa - i.e., you have to apply for one?

smtddr 13y ago

>>What is that makes the United States such an attractive place to immigrate to for people whose skill sets could take them almost anywhere in the world? So, I'm highly critical of USgov but USA, with all its alleged faults, is still considered the "Land of opportunity" by a lot of people. If you have tech-skills and you need a country where the internet doesn't cost you a kidney-per-month(and barely works), electricity is reliably provided during core working hours; combined with the perception that Bay Area / Silicon Valley tech scene is where the money & smart people are at.... there you have it.

sbashyal 13y ago

As an immigrant, I believe that US education is the number one cause for most of this. I did my undergraduate degree from Nepal and came to US to go to Grad school. Most of the engineering course content is American and most of us end up being inspired by the pioneers - Dennis Ritchie, Linus, Bill Gates, John Carmack to name a few Once you are here, and have a degree, there are opportunities here that are not there back home and hence the interest in working visas. Consultancies are another catalyst - in cases where the candidates do not manage to get a job right out of school, consultancies act as a bridge where they file immigrant visas for the candidates and then help them find companies that are in need of their skills.

kparaju 13y ago
It's good to see someone else in HN from Nepal :) We are a rare bunch.

hibikir 13y ago

Money, and a corporate culture where being good at your job is, at least in some way, part of the equation. For instance, a programmer in Spain makes about a third as he would in the midwest, with the same cost of living. He'd also be able to find a job by having skills that fit what companies need, instead of being about being a good friend of the CTO's nephew. And that's a developed country in the EU. Imagine the same thing, in one of those places that have immigrants that move to Spain.

epynonymous 13y ago

several things: 1. stability of the political system 2. percentage of large companies that originate (i.e. google, facebook, vmware, etc) 3. open opportunities with respect to social class

sien 13y ago

Technically the title is a little misleading. The Australian E3 visa has not been filled. If you need skilled engineers think of seeing if you can recruit some Australians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_visa

total 13y ago
The title certainly is misleading, but a read of the short article clears that up pretty quickly considering they mention H-1B visas by name.
jacques_chester 13y ago
The E3 isn't equivalent to an H1B. It has many advangtages, but there's no path to permanent residency.

photon137 13y ago

Great universities. English as the primary language (great learning resources available for it all across the globe). Real economic mobility - you can really make it big if you're smart, persevering and slightly lucky. Who you know matters to a certain extent in all countries, but the significance of that factor is less in the US as compared to the other countries, in my opinion (others may disagree, of course).

msvan 13y ago

I live in Northern Europe. It's arguably superior to the US in many ways, but there are some things which we cannot get here. One thing is size. The US has 300+ million people, whereas my country only has a few million. All communities are smaller here; interesting things get here later or not at all (with bad localizations) because the market is too small. Things are tinier, quieter and get less traction. Another thing is that there is something of a cultural identity crisis going on. We cannot match the enormous cultural influence of the US, and so a lot of our culture is American. If you've ever talked to someone from Northern Europe and wondered "why does s/he speak English so well?" it's not because of school. One half of our cultural identity is located on the other side of the Atlantic, and we keep in touch with it mostly through backlit screens. The deluge of information and entertainment that has come from the US since it became a superpower has served as a really efficient marketing strategy. We're not terribly interested in moving to Oklahoma. We have been sold on New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles and other metropolises in the US, because that's what we read and hear about. These places are perhaps not better than Northern Europe to settle down and start a family in, but they certainly seem more exciting.

NAFV_P 13y ago
> Another thing is that there is something of a cultural identity crisis going on. We cannot match the enormous cultural influence of the US, and so a lot of our culture is American. I don't think that applies to music genres. I live in Gloucester, England which is practically in the middle of Jungle country.
total 13y ago
> ...and wondered "why does s/he speak English so well?" it's not because of school. As an American, I've always been surprised when conversing with people from other countries considering their usage of English is not bad and is far better than those that are American natives. However, also as an American, I'm not surprised by the lack of skill in regards to the English language that is present amongst the population here (I'll use 'amongst' if I want, Chrome) due to the general disregard for the language (as if using the wrong form of your/you're is really that difficult or unimportant). Edit: As is inevitable when one comments upon improper usage of a language, they tend to screw it up themselves. I have done just that. I will leave my mistake to commemorate it: "As an American, I've have always been..."

mkohlmyr 13y ago

(Personal opinion) It isn't the United States that's attractive. It's the tech-hubs within it. I would never seriously consider moving anywhere but a handful of cities / areas in the US. The eco-systems in those places are still years ahead of London or Berlin. I moved from Sweden to the United Kingdom to attend university for similar reasons. The university culture is different (much better) here, and there is more of a hub factor to the campuses, which offers many advantages socially and otherwise.

purringmeow 13y ago
I am an Eastern European living in Central Europe. I moved because University and because of the better living/work conditions. However, if I had the chance I would probably move to the US. Maybe CA, but I am still on the fence. The things stopping me are the super expensive health care, work-life balance and higher crime rates.

foolinaround 13y ago

the US is reputed to have the best engineering colleges, that attract the best talent.

voteapathy 13y ago

Well, the simplest answer is that incomes are way higher for certain positions, even for significantly less skilled work. I mean, engineers are a dime-a-dozen in China, but the pay is lower and STEM work is not nearly as glamorized as it is in the US right now. Doctors too. All the praise goes to business and financial managers. Of course, if you're an international trailblazing software-engineering guru, yeah, you'll get fantastic opportunities pretty much anywhere. However, even fairly low-level IT work in the US can feed a new family (depending on your geography, of course), which is not the case everywhere in the world. And with recruiters banging down peoples' doors throwing jobs in peoples' faces, it's no wonder foreigners want to stay in the US.

davyjones 13y ago

> What is that makes the United States such an attractive place to immigrate to for people whose skill sets could take them almost anywhere in the world? Unrestricted Jus soli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#Unrestricted_jus_soli http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#Unrestricted_jus_soli)

curiousDog 13y ago

To me it's the universities and the already existing multi-culturalism. Everyone here is an immigrant in some way. Also, multi-culturalism seems to be growing organically here in the U.S rather than being shoved down people's throats like in Europe. This leads to fewer instances of racism and a more accepting climate where every one has some degree of mutual respect. I don't think that's the case in Western Europe where from what I hear, refugees are being brought in huge numbers angering the local population. Last year, i visited Switzerland and Austria and was called nigger multiple times by random passers on bicycles whilst walking (and I'm not even black and pretty fair for an Indian guy). Fuck that shit.

serge2k 13y ago

Well I moved to Seattle from BC because i got offered more money with lower taxes and more interesting job.

xyzzyz 13y ago

What is that makes the United States such an attractive place to immigrate to for people whose skill sets could take them almost anywhere in the world? As a European who spent his last 3 summers in the US, and now participating in H1B lottery, my motivation is pretty simple: money, and also prestige stemming from working for a well-recognized tech company in the core of SV that will follow me when I get back my home country, or immigrate to some country I find more desirable. Spending few months in Bay Area and in Seattle made me pretty disillusioned about the whole "land of the free" thing, about equality and justice for all. It also made me concerned about my own personal safety, something I never ever felt back home. But for the salary, I find that Canada is in almost every way superior for immigration purposes, not to mention Germany, Switzerland, Denmark or Sweden.