13 ms·

Ask HN: Any hackers over 60? 70?

221 points by GuiA 13y ago

Are you still employed or retired? How does one's passion and aptitude for hacking evolve towards this part of one's life?

canatan01 13y ago
Not me, but I hope to still be hacking away when I am 60 or older. Maybe it is actually good for the brain to keep at it, I don't know.
- hitchhiker999 13y ago
  It's good for the brain if you learn to moderate your programming activity. Doing 100 hour weeks for more than a year will basically mess you up. It takes about 2 months to come back from a burn out, playing high speed games can help you chill, help you step down to the speed of normal life again. But the best thing is to learn to say 'f* it', and take a few days off here and there. Programming is like the gym for your brain, video games work in a similar way - but it's in a slightly different part (from my experience) of the brain. ie: they are related, close, but not the same - but do compliment each other if used in a balanced way. Source: Programming for 32 years. I will never accept the term 'hacker' - it's annoying
- petermurrayrust 13y ago
  If you get a chance go on a Software Carpentry [1] course. I went on one 4 months ago and it changed my whole outlook. Greg Wilson take you through the psychological aspects of programming - why you should break every hour - the difference between "sip of tea" and "make a cup of tea". How your code relates to short-term memory and much more. Don't think "I know how to program". Even if you know the syntax and the idioms you don't know everything. Simply going through a workshop will change the way you think. [1]http://software-carpentry.org http://software-carpentry.org
lutusp 13y ago
> Ask HN: any hackers over 60? 70? I'm 68, and I should add that "hacker" meant something different when I first heard it used. :) > Are you still employed or retired? I'm retired, but I still program for enjoyment. I have a line of free Android apps published: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=lutus&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=lutus&c=apps > How does one's passion and aptitude for hacking evolve towards this part of one's life? If anything, programming has become more important to me as I have gotten older, for the same reason that mathematics has greater appeal to a maturing mind -- it represents a rational counterpoint to a world that, over time, seems to make less sense.
- gansai 13y ago
  Just love this part from above: it represents a rational counterpoint to a world that, over time, seems to make less sense.
- milani 13y ago
  The answer to the last question depends on the geolocation. In developing countries, people won't enjoy programming when they get old, there are too many problems to solve in real-life that don't allow them to do what they like:/
  - lutusp 13y ago
    Very true. It's a shame because IMHO programming can be a mixture of recreation and productive work. After retirement, the recreational aspect may come to the fore. Also, I've met many programmers who were obliged to program with such persistence and effort that over time they learned to hate it. This is a risk with anything one chooses to do for a living, which is why it's prudent to avoid doing things for a living that you love.
- iMario 13y ago
  I just hone to be like you when I get to 60's...
- weland 13y ago
  Your work is impressive, and I don't mean just the Android applications :-).
- teemo_cute 13y ago
  Much respect to you sir!
- lakshn 13y ago
  Sir, A truly inspiring career. Much Respect. Your interview with Scott was truly motivating. http://hanselminutes.com/342/an-interview-with-paul-lutus http://hanselminutes.com/342/an-interview-with-paul-lutus
- 13y ago
inthefray 13y ago
It's much better to work with a motivated senior hacker than an entitled brat spewing delusions of their own grandeur.
blazespin 13y ago
Upvoted this. Here is one of my personal heros: http://techland.time.com/2013/03/04/how-an-83-year-old-inventor-beat-the-high-cost-of-3d-printing/ http://techland.time.com/2013/03/04/how-an-83-year-old-inven...
SchizoDuckie 13y ago
Great question. I'm in my 30's and I've wondered on more than one occasion what we'll all be programming in 30 years. DNA? Nanobots? What will the web look like? Will we be still hacking away in virtual reality when we're in elderly homes, drifting away with the occulus rift 8.0 lenses in? If anything, I'm excited at getting older and being able to see where all this rapid evolution is taking us. @People over 60 here: What is it like learning and keeping up with the flurry of new technologies at your age? Do you find it more difficult to grasp with age or does it get easier?
- dvirsky 13y ago
  I'm "only" 39, but it's been 30 years since I've written my first line of code. And I have to say that while things have changed a lot, the basics of how it is to program and how you write code, are still the same. I find myself applying techniques I've learned back then, and even though I haven't written assembly since the 80s, the basic low-level understanding of how it all works still serves me to this day. The main difference is maybe how accessible good info is now. Back then each programming book was a treasure that was passed around. I often wonder how much of that will stay the same 30 years from now, and I hope I'll still be hacking then. My bet is that we'll still have some versions of programming languages we know today, maybe even Linux running it. But it will be much more exciting if that won't be true :)
  - petermurrayrust 13y ago
    I've been through 50 years of "programming" with a major change each decade. The key thing is to be in the company of young people. It's harder to learn new things because you have to unlearn earlier ones. My Java started by looking like FORTRAN, my Python now looks like Java. It's critically important to use good Open tools. Eclipse is wonderful. I could not work without JUnit and whenever I run into problems I use the discipline of using tests to define the problem. I have learnt to "love" Maven as I can't do without it. I could not live without Jenkins/Continuous Integration. The main problem is that all these add up, both in learning, installation and support. When I "retired" my website in cambridge gradually decayed and an upgrade to the OS meant Jenkins no longer worked. It's now back (thanks, Mark Williamson) and has restored impetus in the chemistry coding. You have to include time for exploration ("dead ends"). I jumped into javascript when it first appeared - it wasted huge amounts of time as every browsers "upgrade" was a disaster. I started Python and that was nearly as bad. Now , 10+ years on, they're robust and I shall relearn them. Probably be working alongside experts in a hackathon. I believe in code review and am happy for others to review mine!
Blahah 13y ago
Peter Murray Rust [0] is in his 70s and still writes code most days [1], and is a hacker in the original sense. He's retired from his professorship but still runs an active research group making awesome software to liberate knowledge from scientific publications, and he runs the Open Knowledge Foundation and various other groups. I'll ask him to respond himself. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Murray-Rust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Murray-Rust [1] https://bitbucket.org/petermr https://bitbucket.org/petermr
- petermurrayrust 13y ago
  Greetings to HN! I am very proud to have been featured in HN at least twice. I take inspiration from a quote last year from Nellie Kroes - European Commissioner for the Digital Agenda. She's an iconic fighter for Openness - goes on Spanish hack camps with 14-year olds. Hopefully accurate: "I'm 71. I don't do this because I have to but because I want to". [PMR was also 71 at that stage]. I take "hack" as a very positive concept - from its roots in MIT and the Hacker Manifesto up to HN and "hackdays" and "hackathons". I started my communal chemistry code ca 30 years ago - in FORTRAN - and it's gone through C++ (including f2c), and now Java. There have been six major revisions of JUMBO. I had the major epiphany about 15 years ago when I was writing molecular display in Java3D (argh!). I realised I didn't have to do this all myself - and so integrated the magnificent Jmol into the system. That led to the culture or sharing the load and fighting the battles communally (standard chemistry software is awful, highly prices and restrictive - one company will sue you if the publish the output FORTRAN log file). I shan't give my life history , but I have been incredibly fortunately to find like-minded collaborators both locally and globally. Locally it came from Jim Downing who just us about 9 years ago and showed us how to use all the right ideas and tools (JUnit, maven, Jenkins (CI), Bitbucket, Stackoverflow, agile (stand ups, dojos, etc.). The great thing was that we shared the load. We met at the Panton Arms every Friday lunch and would often work there in the afternoon. Yes, work - where ideas would flow freely. The core of hacking is not writing the code but working out what needs to be written. We are committed to excellent software, not competitive academic impact-factor points. That meant we could do things properly. FWIW our work has gone into Cambridge Chemistry's submission for the evaluation process. We're proud that many of our tools (OSCAR, OPSIN, ChemicalTagger, JUMBO) are robust and distributed without major maintenance need. This is unique in chemistry. As a result I catalysed a unique - zero-cash community - the Blue Obelisk (http://blueoblisk.org http://blueoblisk.org and Wikipedia). 20+ F/LOSS groups work in unplanned parallel ways and have created some of the best chemical software. We are now moving into a major effort to extract all scientific facts from the current literature (contentmine.org just released). The major challenge will be lawyers. If any Hackers want to take part in knowledge liberation we'd love to hear from you.
rozzie 13y ago
I haven't spoken with him recently, but I believe that Dave's still the first one in the office every morning, writing stunningly tight code and driving innovation most recently in the Xbone hypervisor. The engineer's engineer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cutler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cutler
danieltillett 13y ago
I am not yet at this age, but the older I get the more I appreciate hacking. It really keeps me from falling into the 'things were better when I was young' hole that older people are prone to falling into. It is also really fun learning new things all the time.
copx 13y ago
Ken Thompson [1] is about as old as modern computing, and can in fact claim to have partially invented it. He is over 70 and last time I checked he was still working for Google. His most recent project well-known to the public is the Go programming language. So it is certainly possible. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson
- brudgers 13y ago
  about as old as modern computing Because Knuth is five years his senior?
  - PhasmaFelis 13y ago
    Key word is "about."
brudgers 13y ago
Ward Cunningham and Charles [Chuck] Moore come immediately to mind as hackers in their 60's and 70's respectively.
- e12e 13y ago
  Came here to mention Moore, and especially color forth (a forth system that uses colors to distinguish semantic meaning between variables and verbs/command words etc). His eval blog of the new greenarray boards is full of magnificent hackery, eg: http://www.colorforth.com/video.htm http://www.colorforth.com/video.htm
jxf 13y ago
He's not 60 yet, but Peter Norvig is 57 and shows no signs of slowing down. If anything he's getting more prolific with age. It seems like every time he gets on a plane he's hacking on something interesting: http://norvig.com/sudoku.html http://norvig.com/sudoku.html
ggreer 13y ago
I'm happy for anyone who is productive past normal retirement age, but it's important to be aware of what happens to our minds as we get older. I think the examples in the comments are exceptions that prove the rule. The reason for the dearth of older hackers is the same reason there are few people running marathons at age 60 or 70: As we age, our bodies and minds degrade. Exercise, nutrition, and (probably) drugs can slow the decline, but we don't yet have the technology to turn back the clock. The most depressing graph I've seen is figure 1[1] in Images of the Cognitive Brain Across Age and Culture[2]. It shows how our cognitive abilities decline soon after we reach maturity. Starting in our 20s, we lose about 6 IQ points per decade; more in our 70s and 80s. That means someone in the top 1% in high school (IQ 135) would be down to average intelligence by the time they were in their 80s. On the bright side, the decline in raw cognitive horsepower is offset by gains in knowledge. In fact, knowledge more than offsets it in most disciplines. Our peak productivity is usually in our 40's and declines much more slowly than one would expect[3]. Still, if you want to keep building cool stuff when you're older, it's important to prepare now. The best thing you can do is stay healthy and active. To return to the marathon analogy: A 55 year-old might not set a world record, but with the right training, nutrition, and possibly performance-enhancing drugs, they can beat >95% of people half their age. Finally, to everyone mentioned in this thread: Well done! I hope to follow your example. 1. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_gxYAfFM1cj0/S6hXmZ4qtjI/AAAAAAAAAUc/mBtqICfKs2w/brainage.jpg https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_gxYAfFM1cj0/S6hXmZ4qtjI/A... 2. http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/36842.pdf http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/36842.pdf 3. http://resources.emartin.net/blog/docs/AgeAchievement.pdf http://resources.emartin.net/blog/docs/AgeAchievement.pdf
- herokusaki 13y ago
  >Exercise, nutrition, and (probably) drugs can slow the decline You seem well acquainted with aging research so I feel it appropriate to ask, what about the role of genetics?
  - ggreer 13y ago
    Actually, that's one area I don't know much about. Since we can't yet easily change our genes, I haven't looked into it much. I'd bet they play a big role. For example, people probably express (or are sensitive to) different amounts of telomerase and BDNF.
ludicast 13y ago
Bob Martin (Uncle Bob) turned 60 a few years ago. He still programs and laments that programmers move into management as they age.
beggi 13y ago
While surely there are few hackers older than 60 or 70, the history of the personal computer is still too young for the question to be a meaningful indicator of how long people keep hacking. The Altair came out in 1975 meaning that someone that was 20 at the time and started hacking on it right away is only reaching 60 next year. The first mass-market personal computer (the Macintosh) came out in 1984 and working with computers was still a niche at that time. Those hackers that are over 60 now are either super early adopters or those that started hacking late in life, so in any case a very small group. I'm sure there will be plenty of hackers over 60 in a few decades :) - Also, looking forward to fragging and playing Starcraft in the nursing home! :)
- bsenftner 13y ago
  I am 49, and I was an early Macintosh developer, gaining access to the beta OS at age 17 in 1983. I started programming via college courses in the 5th grade, and had a video game company selling Vic-20 and Commodore 64 games nationwide thru Sears & KMart in '82. Today, I am CEO of www.3D-Avatar-Store.com: a neural net + 3D computer graphics & animation startup.
- jeremyjh 13y ago
  The Apple II and Commodore 64 were mass market successes that preceded the Mac. I expect there were others that would qualify. I think the 8086 clones came out at about the same time.
  - beggi 13y ago
    You're right, the Macintosh was the first featuring a graphical user interface and mouse. The point I was making still stands though, hacking was a niche at this time :)
    - collyw 13y ago
      I had seen WIMP (windows icons menus pointers) interfaces before I saw a Mac. BBC Micro I think. No mouse, but keyboard could achieve the same thing. Ok, that was for specific applications, and not the OS that was based on it though.
arh68 13y ago
> From around the age of six, I had the habit of sketching from life. I became an artist, and from fifty on began producing works that won some reputation, but nothing I did before the age of seventy was worthy of attention. At seventy-three, I began to grasp the structures of birds and beasts, insects and fish, and of the way plants grow. If I go on trying, I will surely understand them still better by the time I am eighty-six, so that by ninety I will have penetrated to their essential nature. At one hundred, I may well have a positively divine understanding of them, while at one hundred and thirty, forty, or more I will have reached the stage where every dot and every stroke I paint will be alive. May Heaven, that grants long life, give me the chance to prove that this is no lie. --Hokusai
- arh68 13y ago
  ... his take on Impostor syndrome is a bit backwards, too (: > Constantly seeking to produce better work, he apparently exclaimed on his deathbed, "If only Heaven will give me just another ten years... Just another five more years, then I could become a real painter."
brickcap 13y ago
I am bookmarking this thread for times when I am down/ worried about my future. So inspiring to hear from people who have been hacking for this long. I don't think that ed wiessman(edw519) is 60 yet but his advice seems like coming from someone who has been in the business of programming for centuries.
nkoren 13y ago
My father isn't a HN regular, but he's 70 and is very much a hacker. He founded a software startup (www.imatest.com) when he was 63, and now has a dozen employees and is working harder than ever as its CTO. His passion for hacking hasn't waned in the slightest -- if anything, it's increased by orders of magnitude since he retired from his day job. His hacking aptitude within his own narrow speciality (imaging science) also seems to be undiminished. I do sometimes notice that the breadth of his hacking aptitude might be less than in a younger person; he doesn't always grok new concepts as quickly when they are outside his immediate area of interest. Eg., it took me a long while to convince him that automated testing was a really important part of modern software development. But I can understand how this would seem quite alien to somebody who first learned to program on punch-cards -- and since he's happy to delegate things beyond his immediate area of focus, it hasn't been a problem. So, anecdotally: medical issues permitting, there's absolutely no reason you need to scale back on your passion for hacking passion as you age, although the breadth of your hacking might need to narrow somewhat.
- cpach 13y ago
  That’s very inspiring. Mad props to your father!
  - nkoren 13y ago
    Yeah, honestly he's kind of my hero. Seriously proud of what he's done in his second career.
    - ekoswibowo 13y ago
      That really inspiring. I have been wondering about the same. Now that I am in my mid thirty, and I never waned back on my passion on new things (new programming languages!), I am sure that in my late years, I will still develop the same passion as I am today. Say my regards to your father
edw519 13y ago
58, been very active on HN since the beginning, 7 years ago. My passion and aptitude for hacking are higher than ever! I struggled all day yesterday, trying to organize parameters to feed an engine to propagate data that would generate code for a new project. Woke up at 4 a.m. with a hypothesis, and built a working prototype before breakfast. What a great day already. I have written over a million lines of commercial code since 1979, still work serving customers pretty much full time and have enough time left for another 20 to 30 hours per week on personal projects. I have at least one or two more start ups in me, for sure. If this industry was like it was when I started, before PCs and the internet, and I had to sling COBOL for enterprises, I'd probably be a greeter at Walmart now, planning for social security. But fortunately our world has changed and it's so much more interesting and fun. If I ever do retire, I'll probably still keep building stuff forever. The 2 best things: software is everywhere and involved in everything now. I can't imagine not finding an interesting application. And perhaps more importantly, things change so fast, there's always something newer and possibly more interesting right around the corner. (I wish I had more time to explore node, go, and some more frameworks, but I'm so busy...) Between building software, riding my bike, drinking great beer, and getting laid every once in a while, I still feel like 25. I don't want it to ever end. I think anyone who builds software should feel like I do. I hope most of you do. Prepare for a nice long ride!
- hello_newman 13y ago
  "Between building software, riding my bike, drinking great beer, and getting laid every once in a while, I still feel like 25. I don't want it to ever end." I love that line. That is so incredibly inspiring. You really are living the dream.
einhverfr 13y ago
I can't speak for myself I believe I have worked with some contributors to LedgerSMB who are retired. In general, I think one has to be careful about making generalizations here regarding aptitude. LedgerSMB is hard to get into because with ERP/Accounting software the domain knowledge requirements are significantly higher than the fluid intelligence requirements and domain knowledge increases as we get older. In LedgerSMB I have generally found that older programmers contribute better code than younger programmers precisely for this reason. Some of the biggest bugs we have ever had (the ones that caused us to pull 1.2.0 and 1.2.1) were caused by overlooking a critical part of domain knowledge. So I dont think things get particularly worse. The fields of excellence may change however.
kabdib 13y ago
My father-in-law retired at 75. He was writing firmware for Perkin Elmer chip steppers. I've seen his code, it was pretty nice stuff. One guy I met was 65 and about to start up another company. He was sharp and definitely knew what he was doing. The group I was in at Microsoft (Xbox) had David Cutler in it; I think he had just turned 70. I didn't work with him closely, but he was definitely prolific (also more than a bit controversial, politically, at MS, but he had mellowed out quite a bit when I met him). I'm 53 and have high hopes. :-)
- Joeri 13y ago
  I don't know how much of it is true, but if even half of the anecdotes in Showstoppers are true then Dave Cutler is indeed a force of nature to be reckoned with. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0759285780?pc_redir=1396671731&robot_redir=1 http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0759285780?pc_redir=1396671731...
  - wglb 13y ago
    Few of us have written one os, but he has written or been the main force behind THREE.
- vram22 13y ago
  I had read the book "Inside Windows NT" some years ago (when NT was current). It was interesting. It said that Dave Cutler was the main designer/creator of NT and had worked on VMS (IIRC) before that, at DEC. https://www.google.co.in/search?q=book+%22Inside+Windows+NT https://www.google.co.in/search?q=book+%22Inside+Windows+NT http://books.google.co.in/books/about/Inside_Windows_NT.html http://books.google.co.in/books/about/Inside_Windows_NT.html Also: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-in/sysinternals/bb963901.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-in/sysinternals/bb963901.asp... See "History of the book" section at the link above.
lohankin 13y ago
57, employed. Latest hack: https://github.com/tatumizer/circuit-dart https://github.com/tatumizer/circuit-dart Listening to good jazz helps to stay in shape(there's some scientific data that proves music activates something in the brain, not sure what exactly, but it seems to work :-). As someone noted earlier in this thread, there's nothing new in programming for the last 30-40 years. You just need to learn 100 tricks, you learn them early, and then the age makes no difference. What changes is that you don't think of career any more, and think about money much less, which makes you a very bad candidate for bullshit work. You can imagine the consequences.
- jpgvm 13y ago
  I really like this circuit concept for async programming. Did you come up with the model yourself is or is it an implementation of a wider pattern?
  - lohankin 13y ago
    This is kind of homegrown concept, but unlikely to be entirely new. It has connections to other concepts, but the devil is in details, and it was really difficult to find good syntactic expression. I couldn't do it in any language except dart (at least without ugly workarounds). In any case, it's doesn't seem to be appreciated, I'm glad you like it, thanks!
- cylinder714 13y ago
  I'm a fan of baroque and early (pre-1800) music, and the "Barock Music" stream is very calming and restful: http://barock-music.playtheradio.com/ http://barock-music.playtheradio.com/
s1gs3gv 13y ago
I started as a software developer just around the time Intel released the 8080. I was in Bell Labs when Unix Version 7 was introduced. I was at IBM when they released AIX. I now working in scala and clojure and am active in a startup in the financial services and crypto-currency fields. Do what you love, love what you do, throw in a generous helping of luck and you can have a stimulating, productive and enjoyable professional life well into your 70s if not later. How does one's passion and aptitude for hacking evolve towards this part of one's life ? Experience rulez.
rch 13y ago
My father probably qualifies too. In the early 80's we had a Bell Labs/Western Electric Energy management system with home sensors and links to the electric and gas companies. They used a Z80 microprocessor in a STD bus card rack. And at no point in the last 30+ years has he ever been without projects or machines to work on. His skillset goes from the EPROM and PLC level, through C/C++, and on to actual 20 ton open die forging. I've seen him take a break from debugging a C++ driver for a hydraulic beam loader to replace live high voltage fuses with a hot stick rather than wait for the power company. It really puts what we refer to as 'full-stack' into perspective.
dwarman 13y ago
I started age 19 in 1967. Maybe even earlier. Dropped untrained into the deep end commissioning 4100 computers at Elliott Bros near London, and turned out I could swim. Passion - always had the feeling of "You actually want to _pay_ me to do this?" Now I am 66, still fully employed, latest thing you might have heard (of) is the WiiU Audio engine. For unrelated reasons I went through a battery of cognitive function tests a couple of years ago and came out sharper than I was at 19 by at least a full sigma. I have no plans to retire. I would add Don Knuth to the the honors list. And Minsky. Tony Hoare. Ted Nelson. Alan Kay. The original Homebrew Club members are getting up there. And about 100 others I know but you probably won't recognize. A peer group in which I am merely average. As to selectivity and numbers. Yes, there have been programmers since WWII. But mot that many. So my age group has far fewer members than the upcoming geriatric programmer generation. But I have noticed one very encouraging feature we share: barring serious health issues (and even in spite of in some cases), a high percentage are still very active and passionate. No comment on causality, could easily be that it takes a active mind of a peculiar bent to get into the field in the first place and these just last, or it could be that the mental excersize it takes to keep relevant keeps the mind young, or both. But I'm pretty sure I won't last long if I have to stop doing it.
robertlf 13y ago
I'm 57 but didn't start programming until I was 27 years old. My first summer quarter at Purdue they still had punch card readers and I remember sitting in the hall in the basement of the Math building waiting to have my deck read and then pick up the green striped output paper in the adjoining room. The following fall we had our first DEC VT 100 terminals. I guess I would consider myself a hacker of sorts as I now work for myself doing mobile web development with Python, JavaScript, and Django. I have to work for myself because no one will hire someone my age.
camus2 13y ago
I really wish I can still code at 70!
- cab_codespring 13y ago
  Why wouldn't you be able to? Unless you age really badly you should still be just fine. Maybe at 90 you will just be too tired, but unless you get a brain disease or some other kind of dementia you will still be the same as you are now. Al lot of people work at 70 or older, it's recommended that you work until 70 before you collect social security if your retirement funds are lacking. You young kids think anything over 45 is ancient, well it's not, and 70 is "young" old age, and people are still perfectly capable.
graycat 13y ago
Hacking is easy and doesn't take a very sharp mind. Computer science research is harder. Math research is harder, still. There are plenty of people well past 50 and, from their research publications, still quite productive. For them, hacking is baby talk. Richard Wagner? Late in his life he finished his four opera 'The Ring' and wrote 'Parsifal'. All that work remains crown jewels of all of music and art. People late in life are less likely to do hacking for a variety of reasons, but that their mental capacity is not up to the challenge is not among the reasons. What's so difficult about allocate-free, if-then-else, do-while, call-return, try-catch, etc.? Trivial.
davidw 13y ago
Not mentioned elsewhere: Richard Stallman is 61. I don't know how much actual hacking he does these days vs advocacy, but whether you agree with his politics or not, the dude is definitely a hacker.
DonGateley 13y ago
I'll be 70 in November and am putting the finishing touches on a VST plugin that can make any 'phone (head, ear, canal, etc.) I can measure sound like any other 'phone I can measure with remarkable verisimilitude. The trick was not the DSP (standard stuff, that, and part of what I once got paid to do) but in devising a measurement system that worked across types. That part was empirical and took more years and iterations than I'll admit to but without retirement I wouldn't have had the time for all the experimentation that finally nailed it. I've got to say that my coding bug rate seems worse and debug time seems substantially longer and more tedious than I remember. My first coding was assembler for an IBM 7094 as a student at the University of Illinois some 50+ years ago. Been doing it ever since. BTW, I'm looking for someone that can transfer the tech to a paid Android app. Somebody 70ish would be way cool. Kernel level audio skills a must for global filter insertion.
- kordless 13y ago
  You made my day. I'm 47 and I'm doing a solo gig right now.
- kenferry 13y ago
  That sounds like a great project! Kind of like colorspace calibration for monitors applied to sound.
GnarfGnarf 13y ago
65, last year I learned DirectX and wrote a 3D app in C++. This year I'm learning Python for fun. Never gets old :o)
Swannie 13y ago
John ffitch. I was lucky enough to be taught by John. He believes he may have been one of the first people to make computer music - spending precious compute cycles at Cambridge with a speaker hooked up instead of an oscilloscope. He's ~69, and last time we spoke a few years ago, he and some peers were still writing and selling their compiler product (http://www.codemist.co.uk/index.html http://www.codemist.co.uk/index.html), John was still active in the Csound community (C dialect for computer music), and dabbling with computer algebra. Having known John outside of lectures (and meeting him at the age of ~58), I'd say he has a childlike fascination with the world - constant curiosity and a lot of enthusiasm. And also understanding that computer science is cyclical, that rediscovery is part of life, and he could add deep experience each time around.
geofffox 13y ago
I am 63. I code sites. I build boxes. I touched my first computer terminal at the NY World's Fair in '64. Fortran on an IBM senior year in high school 67/68. That was my first and last computer class. I was on the Internet before the WWW. I am 63, but immature for my age.
clef 13y ago
What kind of hacking are we talking about? Black/white hat? (Is there another kind?)
- tod222 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_%28programmer_subculture%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_%28programmer_subculture... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic

221 points by GuiA 13y ago

Are you still employed or retired? How does one's passion and aptitude for hacking evolve towards this part of one's life?

canatan01 13y ago

Not me, but I hope to still be hacking away when I am 60 or older. Maybe it is actually good for the brain to keep at it, I don't know.

hitchhiker999 13y ago
It's good for the brain if you learn to moderate your programming activity. Doing 100 hour weeks for more than a year will basically mess you up. It takes about 2 months to come back from a burn out, playing high speed games can help you chill, help you step down to the speed of normal life again. But the best thing is to learn to say 'f* it', and take a few days off here and there. Programming is like the gym for your brain, video games work in a similar way - but it's in a slightly different part (from my experience) of the brain. ie: they are related, close, but not the same - but do compliment each other if used in a balanced way. Source: Programming for 32 years. I will never accept the term 'hacker' - it's annoying
petermurrayrust 13y ago
If you get a chance go on a Software Carpentry [1] course. I went on one 4 months ago and it changed my whole outlook. Greg Wilson take you through the psychological aspects of programming - why you should break every hour - the difference between "sip of tea" and "make a cup of tea". How your code relates to short-term memory and much more. Don't think "I know how to program". Even if you know the syntax and the idioms you don't know everything. Simply going through a workshop will change the way you think. [1]http://software-carpentry.org http://software-carpentry.org

lutusp 13y ago

> Ask HN: any hackers over 60? 70? I'm 68, and I should add that "hacker" meant something different when I first heard it used. :) > Are you still employed or retired? I'm retired, but I still program for enjoyment. I have a line of free Android apps published: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=lutus&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=lutus&c=apps > How does one's passion and aptitude for hacking evolve towards this part of one's life? If anything, programming has become more important to me as I have gotten older, for the same reason that mathematics has greater appeal to a maturing mind -- it represents a rational counterpoint to a world that, over time, seems to make less sense.

gansai 13y ago
Just love this part from above: it represents a rational counterpoint to a world that, over time, seems to make less sense.
milani 13y ago
The answer to the last question depends on the geolocation. In developing countries, people won't enjoy programming when they get old, there are too many problems to solve in real-life that don't allow them to do what they like:/
- lutusp 13y ago
  Very true. It's a shame because IMHO programming can be a mixture of recreation and productive work. After retirement, the recreational aspect may come to the fore. Also, I've met many programmers who were obliged to program with such persistence and effort that over time they learned to hate it. This is a risk with anything one chooses to do for a living, which is why it's prudent to avoid doing things for a living that you love.
iMario 13y ago
I just hone to be like you when I get to 60's...
weland 13y ago
Your work is impressive, and I don't mean just the Android applications :-).
teemo_cute 13y ago
Much respect to you sir!
lakshn 13y ago
Sir, A truly inspiring career. Much Respect. Your interview with Scott was truly motivating. http://hanselminutes.com/342/an-interview-with-paul-lutus http://hanselminutes.com/342/an-interview-with-paul-lutus
13y ago

inthefray 13y ago

It's much better to work with a motivated senior hacker than an entitled brat spewing delusions of their own grandeur.

blazespin 13y ago

Upvoted this. Here is one of my personal heros: http://techland.time.com/2013/03/04/how-an-83-year-old-inventor-beat-the-high-cost-of-3d-printing/ http://techland.time.com/2013/03/04/how-an-83-year-old-inven...

SchizoDuckie 13y ago

Great question. I'm in my 30's and I've wondered on more than one occasion what we'll all be programming in 30 years. DNA? Nanobots? What will the web look like? Will we be still hacking away in virtual reality when we're in elderly homes, drifting away with the occulus rift 8.0 lenses in? If anything, I'm excited at getting older and being able to see where all this rapid evolution is taking us. @People over 60 here: What is it like learning and keeping up with the flurry of new technologies at your age? Do you find it more difficult to grasp with age or does it get easier?

dvirsky 13y ago
I'm "only" 39, but it's been 30 years since I've written my first line of code. And I have to say that while things have changed a lot, the basics of how it is to program and how you write code, are still the same. I find myself applying techniques I've learned back then, and even though I haven't written assembly since the 80s, the basic low-level understanding of how it all works still serves me to this day. The main difference is maybe how accessible good info is now. Back then each programming book was a treasure that was passed around. I often wonder how much of that will stay the same 30 years from now, and I hope I'll still be hacking then. My bet is that we'll still have some versions of programming languages we know today, maybe even Linux running it. But it will be much more exciting if that won't be true :)
- petermurrayrust 13y ago
  I've been through 50 years of "programming" with a major change each decade. The key thing is to be in the company of young people. It's harder to learn new things because you have to unlearn earlier ones. My Java started by looking like FORTRAN, my Python now looks like Java. It's critically important to use good Open tools. Eclipse is wonderful. I could not work without JUnit and whenever I run into problems I use the discipline of using tests to define the problem. I have learnt to "love" Maven as I can't do without it. I could not live without Jenkins/Continuous Integration. The main problem is that all these add up, both in learning, installation and support. When I "retired" my website in cambridge gradually decayed and an upgrade to the OS meant Jenkins no longer worked. It's now back (thanks, Mark Williamson) and has restored impetus in the chemistry coding. You have to include time for exploration ("dead ends"). I jumped into javascript when it first appeared - it wasted huge amounts of time as every browsers "upgrade" was a disaster. I started Python and that was nearly as bad. Now , 10+ years on, they're robust and I shall relearn them. Probably be working alongside experts in a hackathon. I believe in code review and am happy for others to review mine!

Blahah 13y ago

Peter Murray Rust [0] is in his 70s and still writes code most days [1], and is a hacker in the original sense. He's retired from his professorship but still runs an active research group making awesome software to liberate knowledge from scientific publications, and he runs the Open Knowledge Foundation and various other groups. I'll ask him to respond himself. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Murray-Rust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Murray-Rust [1] https://bitbucket.org/petermr https://bitbucket.org/petermr

petermurrayrust 13y ago
Greetings to HN! I am very proud to have been featured in HN at least twice. I take inspiration from a quote last year from Nellie Kroes - European Commissioner for the Digital Agenda. She's an iconic fighter for Openness - goes on Spanish hack camps with 14-year olds. Hopefully accurate: "I'm 71. I don't do this because I have to but because I want to". [PMR was also 71 at that stage]. I take "hack" as a very positive concept - from its roots in MIT and the Hacker Manifesto up to HN and "hackdays" and "hackathons". I started my communal chemistry code ca 30 years ago - in FORTRAN - and it's gone through C++ (including f2c), and now Java. There have been six major revisions of JUMBO. I had the major epiphany about 15 years ago when I was writing molecular display in Java3D (argh!). I realised I didn't have to do this all myself - and so integrated the magnificent Jmol into the system. That led to the culture or sharing the load and fighting the battles communally (standard chemistry software is awful, highly prices and restrictive - one company will sue you if the publish the output FORTRAN log file). I shan't give my life history , but I have been incredibly fortunately to find like-minded collaborators both locally and globally. Locally it came from Jim Downing who just us about 9 years ago and showed us how to use all the right ideas and tools (JUnit, maven, Jenkins (CI), Bitbucket, Stackoverflow, agile (stand ups, dojos, etc.). The great thing was that we shared the load. We met at the Panton Arms every Friday lunch and would often work there in the afternoon. Yes, work - where ideas would flow freely. The core of hacking is not writing the code but working out what needs to be written. We are committed to excellent software, not competitive academic impact-factor points. That meant we could do things properly. FWIW our work has gone into Cambridge Chemistry's submission for the evaluation process. We're proud that many of our tools (OSCAR, OPSIN, ChemicalTagger, JUMBO) are robust and distributed without major maintenance need. This is unique in chemistry. As a result I catalysed a unique - zero-cash community - the Blue Obelisk (http://blueoblisk.org http://blueoblisk.org and Wikipedia). 20+ F/LOSS groups work in unplanned parallel ways and have created some of the best chemical software. We are now moving into a major effort to extract all scientific facts from the current literature (contentmine.org just released). The major challenge will be lawyers. If any Hackers want to take part in knowledge liberation we'd love to hear from you.

rozzie 13y ago

I haven't spoken with him recently, but I believe that Dave's still the first one in the office every morning, writing stunningly tight code and driving innovation most recently in the Xbone hypervisor. The engineer's engineer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cutler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cutler

danieltillett 13y ago

I am not yet at this age, but the older I get the more I appreciate hacking. It really keeps me from falling into the 'things were better when I was young' hole that older people are prone to falling into. It is also really fun learning new things all the time.

copx 13y ago

Ken Thompson [1] is about as old as modern computing, and can in fact claim to have partially invented it. He is over 70 and last time I checked he was still working for Google. His most recent project well-known to the public is the Go programming language. So it is certainly possible. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson

brudgers 13y ago
about as old as modern computing Because Knuth is five years his senior?
- PhasmaFelis 13y ago
  Key word is "about."

brudgers 13y ago

Ward Cunningham and Charles [Chuck] Moore come immediately to mind as hackers in their 60's and 70's respectively.

e12e 13y ago
Came here to mention Moore, and especially color forth (a forth system that uses colors to distinguish semantic meaning between variables and verbs/command words etc). His eval blog of the new greenarray boards is full of magnificent hackery, eg: http://www.colorforth.com/video.htm http://www.colorforth.com/video.htm

jxf 13y ago

He's not 60 yet, but Peter Norvig is 57 and shows no signs of slowing down. If anything he's getting more prolific with age. It seems like every time he gets on a plane he's hacking on something interesting: http://norvig.com/sudoku.html http://norvig.com/sudoku.html

ggreer 13y ago

I'm happy for anyone who is productive past normal retirement age, but it's important to be aware of what happens to our minds as we get older. I think the examples in the comments are exceptions that prove the rule. The reason for the dearth of older hackers is the same reason there are few people running marathons at age 60 or 70: As we age, our bodies and minds degrade. Exercise, nutrition, and (probably) drugs can slow the decline, but we don't yet have the technology to turn back the clock. The most depressing graph I've seen is figure 1[1] in Images of the Cognitive Brain Across Age and Culture[2]. It shows how our cognitive abilities decline soon after we reach maturity. Starting in our 20s, we lose about 6 IQ points per decade; more in our 70s and 80s. That means someone in the top 1% in high school (IQ 135) would be down to average intelligence by the time they were in their 80s. On the bright side, the decline in raw cognitive horsepower is offset by gains in knowledge. In fact, knowledge more than offsets it in most disciplines. Our peak productivity is usually in our 40's and declines much more slowly than one would expect[3]. Still, if you want to keep building cool stuff when you're older, it's important to prepare now. The best thing you can do is stay healthy and active. To return to the marathon analogy: A 55 year-old might not set a world record, but with the right training, nutrition, and possibly performance-enhancing drugs, they can beat >95% of people half their age. Finally, to everyone mentioned in this thread: Well done! I hope to follow your example. 1. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_gxYAfFM1cj0/S6hXmZ4qtjI/AAAAAAAAAUc/mBtqICfKs2w/brainage.jpg https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_gxYAfFM1cj0/S6hXmZ4qtjI/A... 2. http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/36842.pdf http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/36842.pdf 3. http://resources.emartin.net/blog/docs/AgeAchievement.pdf http://resources.emartin.net/blog/docs/AgeAchievement.pdf

herokusaki 13y ago
>Exercise, nutrition, and (probably) drugs can slow the decline You seem well acquainted with aging research so I feel it appropriate to ask, what about the role of genetics?
- ggreer 13y ago
  Actually, that's one area I don't know much about. Since we can't yet easily change our genes, I haven't looked into it much. I'd bet they play a big role. For example, people probably express (or are sensitive to) different amounts of telomerase and BDNF.

ludicast 13y ago

Bob Martin (Uncle Bob) turned 60 a few years ago. He still programs and laments that programmers move into management as they age.

beggi 13y ago

While surely there are few hackers older than 60 or 70, the history of the personal computer is still too young for the question to be a meaningful indicator of how long people keep hacking. The Altair came out in 1975 meaning that someone that was 20 at the time and started hacking on it right away is only reaching 60 next year. The first mass-market personal computer (the Macintosh) came out in 1984 and working with computers was still a niche at that time. Those hackers that are over 60 now are either super early adopters or those that started hacking late in life, so in any case a very small group. I'm sure there will be plenty of hackers over 60 in a few decades :) - Also, looking forward to fragging and playing Starcraft in the nursing home! :)

bsenftner 13y ago
I am 49, and I was an early Macintosh developer, gaining access to the beta OS at age 17 in 1983. I started programming via college courses in the 5th grade, and had a video game company selling Vic-20 and Commodore 64 games nationwide thru Sears & KMart in '82. Today, I am CEO of www.3D-Avatar-Store.com: a neural net + 3D computer graphics & animation startup.
jeremyjh 13y ago
The Apple II and Commodore 64 were mass market successes that preceded the Mac. I expect there were others that would qualify. I think the 8086 clones came out at about the same time.
- beggi 13y ago
  You're right, the Macintosh was the first featuring a graphical user interface and mouse. The point I was making still stands though, hacking was a niche at this time :)
  - collyw 13y ago
    I had seen WIMP (windows icons menus pointers) interfaces before I saw a Mac. BBC Micro I think. No mouse, but keyboard could achieve the same thing. Ok, that was for specific applications, and not the OS that was based on it though.

arh68 13y ago

> From around the age of six, I had the habit of sketching from life. I became an artist, and from fifty on began producing works that won some reputation, but nothing I did before the age of seventy was worthy of attention. At seventy-three, I began to grasp the structures of birds and beasts, insects and fish, and of the way plants grow. If I go on trying, I will surely understand them still better by the time I am eighty-six, so that by ninety I will have penetrated to their essential nature. At one hundred, I may well have a positively divine understanding of them, while at one hundred and thirty, forty, or more I will have reached the stage where every dot and every stroke I paint will be alive. May Heaven, that grants long life, give me the chance to prove that this is no lie. --Hokusai

arh68 13y ago
... his take on Impostor syndrome is a bit backwards, too (: > Constantly seeking to produce better work, he apparently exclaimed on his deathbed, "If only Heaven will give me just another ten years... Just another five more years, then I could become a real painter."

brickcap 13y ago

I am bookmarking this thread for times when I am down/ worried about my future. So inspiring to hear from people who have been hacking for this long. I don't think that ed wiessman(edw519) is 60 yet but his advice seems like coming from someone who has been in the business of programming for centuries.

nkoren 13y ago

My father isn't a HN regular, but he's 70 and is very much a hacker. He founded a software startup (www.imatest.com) when he was 63, and now has a dozen employees and is working harder than ever as its CTO. His passion for hacking hasn't waned in the slightest -- if anything, it's increased by orders of magnitude since he retired from his day job. His hacking aptitude within his own narrow speciality (imaging science) also seems to be undiminished. I do sometimes notice that the breadth of his hacking aptitude might be less than in a younger person; he doesn't always grok new concepts as quickly when they are outside his immediate area of interest. Eg., it took me a long while to convince him that automated testing was a really important part of modern software development. But I can understand how this would seem quite alien to somebody who first learned to program on punch-cards -- and since he's happy to delegate things beyond his immediate area of focus, it hasn't been a problem. So, anecdotally: medical issues permitting, there's absolutely no reason you need to scale back on your passion for hacking passion as you age, although the breadth of your hacking might need to narrow somewhat.

cpach 13y ago
That’s very inspiring. Mad props to your father!
- nkoren 13y ago
  Yeah, honestly he's kind of my hero. Seriously proud of what he's done in his second career.
  - ekoswibowo 13y ago
    That really inspiring. I have been wondering about the same. Now that I am in my mid thirty, and I never waned back on my passion on new things (new programming languages!), I am sure that in my late years, I will still develop the same passion as I am today. Say my regards to your father

edw519 13y ago

58, been very active on HN since the beginning, 7 years ago. My passion and aptitude for hacking are higher than ever! I struggled all day yesterday, trying to organize parameters to feed an engine to propagate data that would generate code for a new project. Woke up at 4 a.m. with a hypothesis, and built a working prototype before breakfast. What a great day already. I have written over a million lines of commercial code since 1979, still work serving customers pretty much full time and have enough time left for another 20 to 30 hours per week on personal projects. I have at least one or two more start ups in me, for sure. If this industry was like it was when I started, before PCs and the internet, and I had to sling COBOL for enterprises, I'd probably be a greeter at Walmart now, planning for social security. But fortunately our world has changed and it's so much more interesting and fun. If I ever do retire, I'll probably still keep building stuff forever. The 2 best things: software is everywhere and involved in everything now. I can't imagine not finding an interesting application. And perhaps more importantly, things change so fast, there's always something newer and possibly more interesting right around the corner. (I wish I had more time to explore node, go, and some more frameworks, but I'm so busy...) Between building software, riding my bike, drinking great beer, and getting laid every once in a while, I still feel like 25. I don't want it to ever end. I think anyone who builds software should feel like I do. I hope most of you do. Prepare for a nice long ride!

hello_newman 13y ago
"Between building software, riding my bike, drinking great beer, and getting laid every once in a while, I still feel like 25. I don't want it to ever end." I love that line. That is so incredibly inspiring. You really are living the dream.

einhverfr 13y ago

I can't speak for myself I believe I have worked with some contributors to LedgerSMB who are retired. In general, I think one has to be careful about making generalizations here regarding aptitude. LedgerSMB is hard to get into because with ERP/Accounting software the domain knowledge requirements are significantly higher than the fluid intelligence requirements and domain knowledge increases as we get older. In LedgerSMB I have generally found that older programmers contribute better code than younger programmers precisely for this reason. Some of the biggest bugs we have ever had (the ones that caused us to pull 1.2.0 and 1.2.1) were caused by overlooking a critical part of domain knowledge. So I dont think things get particularly worse. The fields of excellence may change however.

kabdib 13y ago

My father-in-law retired at 75. He was writing firmware for Perkin Elmer chip steppers. I've seen his code, it was pretty nice stuff. One guy I met was 65 and about to start up another company. He was sharp and definitely knew what he was doing. The group I was in at Microsoft (Xbox) had David Cutler in it; I think he had just turned 70. I didn't work with him closely, but he was definitely prolific (also more than a bit controversial, politically, at MS, but he had mellowed out quite a bit when I met him). I'm 53 and have high hopes. :-)

Joeri 13y ago
I don't know how much of it is true, but if even half of the anecdotes in Showstoppers are true then Dave Cutler is indeed a force of nature to be reckoned with. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0759285780?pc_redir=1396671731&robot_redir=1 http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0759285780?pc_redir=1396671731...
- wglb 13y ago
  Few of us have written one os, but he has written or been the main force behind THREE.
vram22 13y ago
I had read the book "Inside Windows NT" some years ago (when NT was current). It was interesting. It said that Dave Cutler was the main designer/creator of NT and had worked on VMS (IIRC) before that, at DEC. https://www.google.co.in/search?q=book+%22Inside+Windows+NT https://www.google.co.in/search?q=book+%22Inside+Windows+NT http://books.google.co.in/books/about/Inside_Windows_NT.html http://books.google.co.in/books/about/Inside_Windows_NT.html Also: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-in/sysinternals/bb963901.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-in/sysinternals/bb963901.asp... See "History of the book" section at the link above.

lohankin 13y ago

57, employed. Latest hack: https://github.com/tatumizer/circuit-dart https://github.com/tatumizer/circuit-dart Listening to good jazz helps to stay in shape(there's some scientific data that proves music activates something in the brain, not sure what exactly, but it seems to work :-). As someone noted earlier in this thread, there's nothing new in programming for the last 30-40 years. You just need to learn 100 tricks, you learn them early, and then the age makes no difference. What changes is that you don't think of career any more, and think about money much less, which makes you a very bad candidate for bullshit work. You can imagine the consequences.

jpgvm 13y ago
I really like this circuit concept for async programming. Did you come up with the model yourself is or is it an implementation of a wider pattern?
- lohankin 13y ago
  This is kind of homegrown concept, but unlikely to be entirely new. It has connections to other concepts, but the devil is in details, and it was really difficult to find good syntactic expression. I couldn't do it in any language except dart (at least without ugly workarounds). In any case, it's doesn't seem to be appreciated, I'm glad you like it, thanks!
cylinder714 13y ago
I'm a fan of baroque and early (pre-1800) music, and the "Barock Music" stream is very calming and restful: http://barock-music.playtheradio.com/ http://barock-music.playtheradio.com/

s1gs3gv 13y ago

I started as a software developer just around the time Intel released the 8080. I was in Bell Labs when Unix Version 7 was introduced. I was at IBM when they released AIX. I now working in scala and clojure and am active in a startup in the financial services and crypto-currency fields. Do what you love, love what you do, throw in a generous helping of luck and you can have a stimulating, productive and enjoyable professional life well into your 70s if not later. How does one's passion and aptitude for hacking evolve towards this part of one's life ? Experience rulez.

rch 13y ago

My father probably qualifies too. In the early 80's we had a Bell Labs/Western Electric Energy management system with home sensors and links to the electric and gas companies. They used a Z80 microprocessor in a STD bus card rack. And at no point in the last 30+ years has he ever been without projects or machines to work on. His skillset goes from the EPROM and PLC level, through C/C++, and on to actual 20 ton open die forging. I've seen him take a break from debugging a C++ driver for a hydraulic beam loader to replace live high voltage fuses with a hot stick rather than wait for the power company. It really puts what we refer to as 'full-stack' into perspective.

dwarman 13y ago

I started age 19 in 1967. Maybe even earlier. Dropped untrained into the deep end commissioning 4100 computers at Elliott Bros near London, and turned out I could swim. Passion - always had the feeling of "You actually want to _pay_ me to do this?" Now I am 66, still fully employed, latest thing you might have heard (of) is the WiiU Audio engine. For unrelated reasons I went through a battery of cognitive function tests a couple of years ago and came out sharper than I was at 19 by at least a full sigma. I have no plans to retire. I would add Don Knuth to the the honors list. And Minsky. Tony Hoare. Ted Nelson. Alan Kay. The original Homebrew Club members are getting up there. And about 100 others I know but you probably won't recognize. A peer group in which I am merely average. As to selectivity and numbers. Yes, there have been programmers since WWII. But mot that many. So my age group has far fewer members than the upcoming geriatric programmer generation. But I have noticed one very encouraging feature we share: barring serious health issues (and even in spite of in some cases), a high percentage are still very active and passionate. No comment on causality, could easily be that it takes a active mind of a peculiar bent to get into the field in the first place and these just last, or it could be that the mental excersize it takes to keep relevant keeps the mind young, or both. But I'm pretty sure I won't last long if I have to stop doing it.

robertlf 13y ago

I'm 57 but didn't start programming until I was 27 years old. My first summer quarter at Purdue they still had punch card readers and I remember sitting in the hall in the basement of the Math building waiting to have my deck read and then pick up the green striped output paper in the adjoining room. The following fall we had our first DEC VT 100 terminals. I guess I would consider myself a hacker of sorts as I now work for myself doing mobile web development with Python, JavaScript, and Django. I have to work for myself because no one will hire someone my age.

camus2 13y ago

I really wish I can still code at 70!

cab_codespring 13y ago
Why wouldn't you be able to? Unless you age really badly you should still be just fine. Maybe at 90 you will just be too tired, but unless you get a brain disease or some other kind of dementia you will still be the same as you are now. Al lot of people work at 70 or older, it's recommended that you work until 70 before you collect social security if your retirement funds are lacking. You young kids think anything over 45 is ancient, well it's not, and 70 is "young" old age, and people are still perfectly capable.

graycat 13y ago

Hacking is easy and doesn't take a very sharp mind. Computer science research is harder. Math research is harder, still. There are plenty of people well past 50 and, from their research publications, still quite productive. For them, hacking is baby talk. Richard Wagner? Late in his life he finished his four opera 'The Ring' and wrote 'Parsifal'. All that work remains crown jewels of all of music and art. People late in life are less likely to do hacking for a variety of reasons, but that their mental capacity is not up to the challenge is not among the reasons. What's so difficult about allocate-free, if-then-else, do-while, call-return, try-catch, etc.? Trivial.

davidw 13y ago

Not mentioned elsewhere: Richard Stallman is 61. I don't know how much actual hacking he does these days vs advocacy, but whether you agree with his politics or not, the dude is definitely a hacker.

DonGateley 13y ago

I'll be 70 in November and am putting the finishing touches on a VST plugin that can make any 'phone (head, ear, canal, etc.) I can measure sound like any other 'phone I can measure with remarkable verisimilitude. The trick was not the DSP (standard stuff, that, and part of what I once got paid to do) but in devising a measurement system that worked across types. That part was empirical and took more years and iterations than I'll admit to but without retirement I wouldn't have had the time for all the experimentation that finally nailed it. I've got to say that my coding bug rate seems worse and debug time seems substantially longer and more tedious than I remember. My first coding was assembler for an IBM 7094 as a student at the University of Illinois some 50+ years ago. Been doing it ever since. BTW, I'm looking for someone that can transfer the tech to a paid Android app. Somebody 70ish would be way cool. Kernel level audio skills a must for global filter insertion.

kordless 13y ago
You made my day. I'm 47 and I'm doing a solo gig right now.
kenferry 13y ago
That sounds like a great project! Kind of like colorspace calibration for monitors applied to sound.

GnarfGnarf 13y ago

65, last year I learned DirectX and wrote a 3D app in C++. This year I'm learning Python for fun. Never gets old :o)

Swannie 13y ago

John ffitch. I was lucky enough to be taught by John. He believes he may have been one of the first people to make computer music - spending precious compute cycles at Cambridge with a speaker hooked up instead of an oscilloscope. He's ~69, and last time we spoke a few years ago, he and some peers were still writing and selling their compiler product (http://www.codemist.co.uk/index.html http://www.codemist.co.uk/index.html), John was still active in the Csound community (C dialect for computer music), and dabbling with computer algebra. Having known John outside of lectures (and meeting him at the age of ~58), I'd say he has a childlike fascination with the world - constant curiosity and a lot of enthusiasm. And also understanding that computer science is cyclical, that rediscovery is part of life, and he could add deep experience each time around.

geofffox 13y ago

I am 63. I code sites. I build boxes. I touched my first computer terminal at the NY World's Fair in '64. Fortran on an IBM senior year in high school 67/68. That was my first and last computer class. I was on the Internet before the WWW. I am 63, but immature for my age.

clef 13y ago

What kind of hacking are we talking about? Black/white hat? (Is there another kind?)

tod222 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_%28programmer_subculture%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_%28programmer_subculture... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic