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Whatever’s Best For The People, That’s What We Do
- davyjones 13y agoI don't really understand why this explanation was even warranted. People looking from outside don't get the picture at all. Ergo, conclusions are erroneous at best and malicious at worst.
- calbear81 13y agoProfessional pride is one big reason especially when it's not your average Joe who is critiquing your design strategy.
- forrestthewoods 13y agoWhy is someone from Facebook making an official(ish?) statement via medium? Seems kinda amateur. And, maybe it's just me, but I hate links from medium because on HN they strictly say (medium.com) with no information as to who they are. Much, much prefer personal blog links where there is some context.
- karangoeluw 13y agoIt took me a while to realize that you work at Facebook. Maybe add a sentence or two about that on top of the article?
- ghayes 13y agoFor those still curious, from the footer of the post: Julie Zhuo Product design director @ Facebook. Self-professed tyro and lover of food, games, words. Follow me as @joulee or on www.juliezhuo.com
- dsjoerg 13y agoIt is so gratifying to hypothesize your existence, and then, like a high-energy particle, here you are. (Hypothesized here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7484795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7484795)
- calbear81 13y agoI'm glad Julie took the time to respond to Dustin's article and dispel the lower revenue assumption. I looked back at the articles in March of last year and it does appear that everyone reported that the new design would bring in more ad revenue via more engaging ad formats for advertisers. One thing I want to understand is if the concern is about accommodating people on less-than-the-latest tech or smaller screens, etc. then we've solved largely for that via responsive design. It's not hard to detect that I have enough real estate to support having a 2x larger photo in my feed. Why not adjust as needed?
- BigBadBionicBoy 13y agoHow exactly did she dispel the lower revenue assumption? There is not a sentence in this article that does that.
- spicyj 13y ago"The old design we tested last year would actually have been positive for revenue. But that’s not a reason to ship a worse design."
- ghayes 13y agoShe states it directly: "The old design we tested last year would actually have been positive for revenue."
- xophe 13y agoNo. Neither the old design nor the design dcurtis mentioned are current. But the current design is more similar to the old design.
- kosievdmerwe 13y agoI'm not sure what you mean? She is pretty clearly referring to the redesign from 2013 versus the design before that.
- codezero 13y agoI'm baffled as to why the experience needs to be 100% consistent across all demographics. Why can't Facebook adapt the news feed to be the best for each individual, both content wise and design? I have a 27" screen, why degrade my experience, as a minority when you are completely capable of enhancing it. Enhance the 11, 13 and 17 inch screens too, and let us all have the best experience possible. The idea that the majority should be the only number worth optimizing is one that should be completely dismissed.
- rtpg 13y agoBecause maintaining N different interfaces is hard? No matter how big you get, coordination between products is a hard problem to deal with (more social than technical).
- codezero 13y agoLook, my view is this: it's not about maintaining N different interfaces. Each news feed is totally personalized. This is done without having to worry about maintaining "N" feeds, it's built into the system, built into the approach. Why is the design something that needs to be fragmented into buckets? This is a broader choice, accepting that all users need to be on some defined path. You can measure and improve metrics without being concerned about the particular CSS file being delivered to each person.
- croggle 13y agoWhat on earth are you talking about? The old design did not work across a set of devices. The new design works across a greater number of these device. Please suggest an alternative. note: device could mean anything from phone to small netbook.
- k0 13y agoResponsive Web Design...downvote me. RWD has come leaps and bounds. It's a news feed with pictures and comments.
- k0 13y agoWhat is Responsive Web Design? How could it be used to enhance the UX and UI? Why isn't Facebook using RWD? Real, scalable RWD? I must be way off base, but their issues with the News Feed design are surmountable. Not impressed by Julie. I have never thought of FB as a bastion of design...and I have not yet been swayed to think or see otherwise.
- nnq 13y agoYou don't even need metrics to figure out that, for example: > The old design was worse for many of the things we value and try to improve. Like how much people share and converse with their friends. [old design: http://img.svbtle.com/gpnggaky8d1gog.jpg http://img.svbtle.com/gpnggaky8d1gog.jpg] The "only icons" on the left + "icons AND text labels" for "Share/Like/Comment" + much higher text density on the right constantly shift your thinking form "photo/visual" to "reading/writing", it mind-fucks you in a very subtle way, so your brain ends up focusing on the only thing that makes sense: (a) the overall visual structure (that was beautifully designed, I admit) and (b) the photos. If you want user engagement beyond the "click like" level you need to focus people towards the "reading/writing/verbal" mode of interaction. Like, if you have to read a button's label to know what it does, this puts your mind into "reading mode" so the comment that immediately follows the link/button has more chances of actually being read and of the people actually writing a reply instead of just clicking a like and staring at a cute picture. They really got this right (either through someone's insight or metrics, I dunno) with the "Like Comment Share" links - getting rid of the icons pushed you more towards "text/words mode" thinking, which is exactly the mode you need to be in to actually post a comment, and a comment is more content so it will be a positive feedback loop for even more and so on. (Also, another obvious bad idea was the left bar - while theoretically good for screen estate, it's essentially "mystery meat navigation" to unsophisticated desktop users. Also it puts less focus on the Apps. Also by putting the active contacts list in the bottom left corner pushes them out of your mental focus.) EDIT+: ...now that it really got me thinking of it, I can't believe how incredibly bad the "old new" design was. How did they even chose to deliver that? It looked like textbook "design driven design", it didn't focus at all on how the users think and what they actually do on Facebook.
- kosievdmerwe 13y agoI think it's fairly easy to come up with reasons after the fact why a design is bad, but it certainly didn't look bad and many people in the more tech community felt it was better than the new redesign: in particular the guy who wrote the article to which this one is a response to.
- fastseoservice 13y ago
- rdl 13y agoOne thing I hate is how all these screenshots are made with unrepresentatively interesting posts and high quality photographs. Show what the feed looks like with a news stories posted by a few people (fortunately FB is now smart enough to coalesce them), a bunch of moronic memes, one line stupid text, and a few long posts with ~100 comments with lots of debate, and that's more representative of my facebook newsfeed.
- cmelbye 13y agoJust open http://facebook.com/ http://facebook.com/? That design is being rolled out to everyone right now.
- cliveowen 13y agoNot to me. I don't understand why Facebook takes so much to bring changes to European users. I use the English language, there's really no reason to delay the rollout. I don't care much because I rarely use Facebook anymore, but it still sucks.
- NotOscarWilde 13y agoSlow rollout is a great tool for suppressing dissent (and discontent). You likely remember that people were upset en masse with design changes of Facebook. However, if you get a new style change and none of your friends have it, your venting comment either gets lost or you won't write one at all, seeing as nobody else complains. Then a second person gets the style change and again, seeing no complaints himself, he is much more likely not to complain. I'm surprised this topic (complaint control through trickery) isn't addresssed as often.
- _mulder_ 13y agoThis is an interesting concept. Are there any relevant studies/articles of this in practice, beyond the Anecdotal?
- wudf 13y agoThe new design delivers headlines that I can't highlight to copy. Pain in the ass.
- shakethemonkey 13y ago#1 design flaw on Facebook: It should be dead easy to search my newsfeed. I saw something yesterday, or last week -- there's no way to see it again. (If there is, you've hidden this feature so well that you should get an award for obfuscation)
- Semaphor 13y agoOnly real solution I know of is getting your data (it's JSON iirc) and using some parser to search through it.
- disgruntledphd2 13y agoGraph Search? Works for me sometimes.
- Semaphor 13y agoAccording to an article I found [0] > Graph Search will now let some members uncover status updates, photo captions, check-ins, and comments. Seems it's still not available for everyone, at least it doesn't work for me. Good thing it's finally coming though. [0] http://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-expands-graph-search-to-let-you-search-status-updates/# http://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-expands-graph-search-to-le...!
- shakethemonkey 13y agoGraph Search is an answer to a question I've never had.
- numair 13y agoRegardless of personal opinion, I hope people on HN understand that this is a talented person providing an honest opinion about their work. Which is rare, and should be commended, rather than being treated as evidence of a conspiracy. Also, Dustin Curtis seems to forget (or not understand) that Facebook is the same company that made a decision to implement AJAX at the expense of pageviews, at a time when that decision was highly controversial (the era of the Empire of MySpace). You can ding the management at Facebook for a lot of things, but this really isn't one of them. The bigger story, really, is that poor people use Facebook on a computer, and thus that is where web-based experience optimization is focused. If you don't have a smartphone, or your smartphone sucks, you're going to be on the web; otherwise, why aren't you using your iPhone or iPad? (And remember, that's where Facebook derives a majority of their revenue -- so if there's going to be a conspiracy, it's going to be a conspiracy to get you to stop using the website, and to buy a high-ad-revenue-generating iPhone). Welcome to the wacky user landscape of 2014, where the Web is for nerds and poor people. I like that Julie used Medium for her thoughts, rather than a Facebook post. Experimentation with others' products and services is super cool.
- 1stop 13y agoSorry but screen width is a pretty dumb reason to drop a rich experience on larger screens. It's just another media query. Why can't 27 inch/high res/super duper screens get the awesome layout, and shitty "poor people" screens get the shitty layout?
- ntaso 13y agoBut an inconsistent experience, if the page looks vastly different for some people than for others.
- 1stop 13y agoIt doesn't have to look vastly different, it just has to look 'designed' for each screen size. This isn't a difficult problem... I'm wondering if responsive web design is a foreign concept within facebook. :\
- UweSchmidt 13y agoNo place on the internet feels so heavy handed in telling you what to do and trying to influence your behaviour like Facebook. You can feel like they frequency with which you are compelled to provide some missing information for FB's databases is algorithmically fine tuned to how much you can probably bear. It feels soulless, a site nearing the end of it's life cycle. I check out my friend's photos almost daily, and not too many people seem to be leaving, but no one's writing or posting anything personal any more. Hesitation, distrust. So, you can try to roll out a layout that makes the "News Feed all about the content" (wtf?), but you can't design the love back in.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- itazula 13y agoI never like it when people say they're doing what is best "for the people."
- voicereasonish 13y agoThe design is terrible. So much of the width is wasted with two sidebars that are seldom used. "People you may also know"? Really? And big areas of grey. Also don't get me started on the ridiculously persistent desire for facebook to show you random stories "Top stories" rather than sorted by date, or the ridiculously irritating auto-play videos. People are dropping facebook. It's just becoming a worse user experience each time they change anything.
- jsmeaton 13y agoI can forgive most things that Facebook has done. But auto-play videos is not one of them. I use click-to-play for media but have Facebook white listed, which probably won't last much longer.
- eertami 13y agoAs one of the people who uses Facebook only for Groups, I like having them constantly available in a sidebar. I'd wager that I know many people who use groups more than they use the news feed.
- nnq 13y ago> "People you may also know"? Really? One of their objectives is to keep expanding their user base. This feature is crucial to be in a visible place on the screen. Also quite useful for users that have just joined Facebook. And about: > random stories "Top stories" rather than sorted by date It's a known fact that when you add randomness to the action -> reward relationship, addictiveness significantly increases. (it's not intuitive, but has been proven on everything from rats to humans!) I stopped using Facebook "personally" some time ago, but I admit that they know their shit and do it well. Whether they do it by brute-force metrics or they have some really smart UI/X evil geniuses, I don't know, but it's well done!
- voicereasonish 13y agoThat's the thing about tuning based on metrics though. You end up with a product that the majority tolerate, but no one really loves.
- peterkelly 13y agoDammit... why did I have to read this article? I was just about to post a rant in the comments of the original one about how evil and money-grabbing Facebook is, and now I find out the final design choice was made for perfectly-rational usability reasons that take into account the diversity of the user population. How am I supposed to make myself feel superior now?
- eevilspock 13y agoDid you feel the same way and take back your doubts about invading Iraq when Gen. Colin Powell testified so convincingly to the world at the U.N. of the impending danger of Iraq's WMDs? What Colin Powell Knew and What He Said: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-schwarz/colin-powell-wmd-iraq-war_b_2624620.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-schwarz/colin-powell-...
- kemo 13y agoAnd what if providing different user experiences is the next thing Facebook should aim towards? What if users would actually enjoy being able to choose from different UIs? "Which one do you use?" I am not referring to responsive web here.
- mavdi 13y agoSo their new design wasn't responsive? Am I missing something here?
- watwut 13y agoIf only google would learn this too and checked their new guis on smaller screens once in a while.
- new_guy123 13y agoThis follow up response is completely expected. No doubt, Justin's blog was incomplete information. While I am still not convinced about how the ads section got bigger, is it really so difficult to identify the user's medium? I am using a mac book pro. My request header is yelling at you that I am. Your argument makes no sense, if you agree that you know I am not suffering from the lack of a scroll pad. What about that!
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- Dewie 13y agoI just wish I could turn off the news feed. Facebook is a great social tool, but I'm sick of all the literal status updates. I tried Facebook Purify but their CSS ,trick didn't work. http://www.aesconnect.com/how-to-turn-off-your-facebook-newsfeed/ http://www.aesconnect.com/how-to-turn-off-your-facebook-news...
- michaelrbock 13y agoYou can! https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/kill-news-feed/hjobfcedfgohjkaieocljfcppjbkglfd?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/kill-news-feed/hjo...
- veidr 13y agoWhatever's best for the farmers, that's what Monsanto does.
- calinet6 13y agoNot all companies are equal.
- byroot 13y agoFunny how her screenshot is cleared of ads.
- calvinlough 13y agoIt also looks a lot cleaner because it only has 10 links on left side. I've got 30 (a few of them I could probably hide, but lots of them I can't).
- atto 13y agoThe image she presents is starkly different from what I see under one of my test user's Facebook (so no apps, groups, etc). Massive ads on the right, a very different set of links on the left, etc.
- notdonspaulding 13y ago> These people may not be early adopters or use the same hardware we do, but the quality of their experience matters just as much. This speaks to the value FB sees in low-quality, high-reach experiences. Well, this and the WhatsApp acquisition. It's a very mature and reasonable response to Dustin's armchair speculation.
- saturdaysaint 13y agoObviously, this could just be corporate PR disguised as a blog, but it seems plausible when I consider how rarely I even go to www.facebook.com. For users not on mobile (I'm imagining grandparents), an immersive photo experience creates a nice experience but one distinctly unlike what most mobile users (which is to say, most users) experience. I can see big laptop-screen filling images deemphasizing text and overshadowing some of the utility that FB wants to assume for users. It might seem daunting to share an update that you're making tea for your granddaughter when you seem to be competing with your relatives' screen filling, HD photos and videos. "Immersive" pictures might make you less likely to check your events.
- saddestcatever 13y agoJulie's argument wraps around the idea of "designing for the lowest common denominator". In an age of responsive design, I find it strange that a tech company wouldn't have the manpower to design arguably the most used website it the world to give the best experience to different types of end users.
- viacoffee 13y agoJust remember that this exists: https://www.startupvitamins.com/media/products/6/mark_zuckerberg_poster_large.jpg?v2 https://www.startupvitamins.com/media/products/6/mark_zucker...
- useraccount 13y agoDustin Curtis is a horseshit peddler. I'm not sure why people still listen to him.
- pxlpshr 13y agoHer screenshot shows 2 just ads while my stream shows me 7. My block of ads is 350% larger.